Managing Engineers

Agentic mode enabled

Wed, 01 Apr 2026 13:00:00 -0000

It took them eight episodes, but Si and Neil finally tackle AI. No future predictions (well, almost), no hot takes, just two engineering managers sharing what they're actually doing with these tools, what's surprised them, and what still makes them nervous.

They cover using LLMs as thinking partners, the difference between AI that writes code and AI that helps you engineer better, agentic tools and what happens when you give them real access, and why good engineering practices might matter more now, not less. Oh, and they do make some predictions at the end. They'll probably be wrong. That's kind of the point.

Timestamped to April 2026. This will be outdated by the time you listen to it.

CHAPTERS

00:00 - Illness, delays and finally talking about AI
04:32 - Framing it: LLMs vs AI as a broader term
06:09 - How Si and Neil are using AI day to day
12:41 - AI baked into everything: Copilot, Confluence and the Microsoft rebrand
16:24 - The accelerant problem: AI amplifies what's already there
19:38 - Industry noise, AI fatigue and working out the real value
30:06 - Agentic AI: what it is and why it changes things
34:01 - What they've learned from using LLMs (tips for getting started)
50:07 - Predictions: AI in engineering this time next year
53:32 - The future of EMs, QA and small teams

USEFUL LINKS

Dave Farley - Modern Software Engineering (Continuous Delivery): https://www.youtube.com/c/ContinuousDelivery

Microsoft Copilot: https://copilot.microsoft.com

Cursor (AI code editor): https://www.cursor.com

GitHub Copilot: https://github.com/features/copilot

Claude (Anthropic): https://claude.ai

OpenClaw (agentic AI tool): https://openclau.ai

Notion AI: https://www.notion.com/product/ai

CONNECT WITH US

Si Jobling - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sijobling/

Neil Younger - https://www.linkedin.com/in/neil-younger/

Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

CREDITS

Produced by Unstyled Studios.

Artwork by Si.

Edited in Descript.

Hosted on Pinecast.

Support Managing Engineers by contributing to their tip jar: https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/managingengineers

Find out more at http://podcast.managingengineers.net

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Communities that made us

Wed, 11 Mar 2026 13:00:00 -0000

In this episode, Si and Neil talk about the communities that helped shape their careers and perspectives as engineers and leaders.

From grassroots meetups and agile communities to internal workplace groups and side project collectives, they explore how the right people in the right space can accelerate learning, create opportunities, and build lasting friendships.

They also discuss what makes communities thrive or fade away. Sometimes scale changes the dynamic, sometimes life simply moves on, but the impact often stays with you long after.

Along the way they share personal stories about meetups, online communities, internal workplace groups, and why feeling like you belong somewhere matters more than people often realise.

If you have ever wondered whether it is worth joining a meetup, starting a community at work, or creating a small group around a shared interest, this episode might give you the nudge you need.

Because sometimes the community that changes your career is just one conversation away.

⸻

CHAPTERS

00:00 - Friday preamble and why we record at the end of the week 02:00 - What do we mean by “communities that made us?” 06:30 - Early communities and how they opened doors in our careers 12:30 - When communities scale and start to lose their grassroots feel 17:00 - Building a side project community during lockdown 22:30 - Small communities and why intimacy matters 27:00 - Internal communities at work and communities of practice 31:45 - Leadership support and funding for communities 34:00 - Neurodiversity networks and safe spaces in organisations 39:00 - Private vs public communities and finding the right balance 48:30 - Advice for anyone thinking about starting a community 52:00 - Why joining a community can change everything

⸻

USEFUL LINKS

The Multipack - https://multipack.co.uk

Cambridge Agile Exchange - https://www.meetup.com/cambridge-agile-exchange/

Building Successful Communities of Practice - https://emilywebber.co.uk/books/building-successful-communities-of-practice/

UK Government Community of Practice Guide - https://communityofpractice.gov.uk/

⸻

Connect with the hosts

Si Jobling - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sijobling/

Neil Younger - https://www.linkedin.com/in/neilyounger/

Podcast archive https://podcast.managingengineers.net

Support Managing Engineers by contributing to their tip jar: https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/managingengineers

This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

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What the metrics?

Wed, 25 Feb 2026 13:00:00 -0000

Metrics are meant to help.

But sometimes they just perform.

In this episode, we explore the difference between measurement that drives insight and measurement that becomes theatre. From counting test cases and commit history, to DORA metrics and Monte Carlo forecasting, we unpack how numbers can guide teams - or quietly distort behaviour .

We reflect on how metrics have evolved over the past 25 years, how Agile shifted the way we think about delivery and value, and why modern teams now have more data than ever but not always more clarity.

We also challenge a few uncomfortable truths:

When a metric becomes a target
When dashboards replace conversations
When velocity gets mistaken for predictability
When comparing teams causes more harm than insight
When “healthy culture” is reduced to a number

At its best, a metric is an invitation to a conversation.

At its worst, it is theatre.

What we cover

Early career metrics: counting test cases and “how many did you do?”
Commit counts, leaderboards and accidental gamification
From CD releases to cloud shipping and real time telemetry
DORA and the four key delivery metrics
SPACE Framework and measuring beyond output
Monte Carlo method vs story point velocity
Confidence levels and how to talk about uncertainty with stakeholders
Goodhart’s law and the danger of turning measures into targets
Pulse surveys, fatigue and the limits of yearly sentiment snapshots
The challenge: if you could only pick one metric, what would it be?

Useful links

Monte Carlo method https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Carlo_method https://medium.com/@benjihuser/an-introduction-and-step-by-step-guide-to-monte-carlo-simulations-4706f675a02f
Actionable Agile for Jira https://www.55degrees.se/products/actionableagileanalytics
DORA research https://dora.dev/research/
SPACE Framework https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2rbekHpG4Q
Goodhart’s law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law
Moving beyond velocity https://docondev.com/escape-velocity
PETALS Measuring team health across Productivity, Enjoyment, Teamwork, Learning and Serenity https://petals.team https://app.petals.team

Chapter markers

00:00:07 - Intro and over engineering an EV charger box
00:02:16 - Why metrics matter and how they can mislead
00:03:27 - Counting test cases and early vanity metrics
00:05:45 - Commit counts and gamified leaderboards
00:09:57 - DORA metrics and delivery performance
00:13:07 - SPACE and measuring people, not just output
00:16:02 - Time to learn vs time to earn
00:20:03 - Monte Carlo forecasting vs velocity
00:24:35 - Pulse surveys, fatigue and psychological safety
00:30:03 - What averages hide
00:35:05 - Goodhart’s Law and when metrics go wrong
00:45:07 - If you could only choose one metric
00:50:56 - Wrap up and listener challenge

Hosts

Connect with us on LinkedIn…

Neil Younger - https://www.linkedin.com/in/neil-younger/

Simon Jobling - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sijobling/

What do you measure?

What have you stopped measuring?

And what has backfired spectacularly?

Working remotely or remotely working

Wed, 04 Feb 2026 12:30:00 -0000

We’ve reached the halfway point of our 10-part season, which felt like the right moment to step back and talk about one of the most persistent topics in modern engineering teams - remote and hybrid working.

In this episode, Si and Neil explore what working from home actually means when you’re managing software engineers. Not the policies, perks, or perfect desk setups, but the lived reality. What changed during lockdown, what stuck, what didn’t, and what still feels unresolved.

The conversation spans office-first teams, fully remote organisations, and hybrid models, touching on privilege, trust, inclusion, junior development, boundaries, and the invisible rules that often go unspoken. There’s talk of sheds, spare rooms, surveillance software, walk-and-talk one-to-ones, and why “just get people back in the office” is rarely the full answer.

As ever, there’s no silver bullet. Just two engineering managers comparing notes, challenging assumptions, and trying to design better ways of working on purpose.

Chapters

00:00 – Mid-season check-in and why this topic keeps coming up
02:00 – Life before lockdown and the shift to hybrid working
05:30 – Fully remote by design vs remote by reaction
10:15 – Privilege, space, and the uneven reality of home working
15:10 – Choice vs circumstance and how it affects teams
19:45 – Making office days intentional, not performative
24:40 – Trust, transparency, and working in the open
30:00 – Cameras, connection, and staying human at a distance
34:00 – Surveillance tools, productivity myths, and broken trust
40:00 – What actually matters in a home working setup
47:00 – Boundaries, rituals, and knowing when the day is done
52:00 – Juniors, missed context, and unwritten rules
54:00 – Trust as the foundation and what we’d revisit next

From QA to quality engineering

Wed, 21 Jan 2026 15:00:00 -0000

They explore the journey from “tester” to QA, quality engineer, and quality coach, and why job titles still shape perception, influence, and when people are invited into the room.

KEY THEMES

Why quality is not just testing at the end, but shaping ideas from discovery through to delivery
How different titles like tester, QA, quality engineer, and quality coach change expectations and behaviours
The power of early involvement, questioning, and exploring unknowns before code is written
Why exploratory testing still matters, even with strong automation and pipelines
The role of QA as enablers and coaches, not gatekeepers or sign-off roles
Lessons from teams that removed QA roles, and why many later reintroduced them
How communities like Ministry of Testing helped shape modern quality practices
Why humans still matter in a world of automation and AI, especially when it comes to curiosity, judgement, and risk
Practical ways teams without dedicated QA roles can improve quality today

Neil also shares real-world stories from his career, including the impact of renaming testing roles, the long-running “test is dead” debate, and why discovering what you don’t know is where quality really adds value.

This episode is for engineering managers, developers, testers, and anyone thinking about how teams build better software together.

CHAPTERS

00:00 – Risk, ladders, and an accidental intro to quality thinking
03:00 – From testers to QA to quality engineers – why names evolved
07:30 – Why job titles change behaviour and influence
12:00 – Testing early, discovery, and reducing risk before code
15:20 – Ministry of Testing and the power of community
19:10 – From tester to quality coach – an evolving role
24:00 – “Test is dead” and what it really meant
28:20 – Do modern teams still need dedicated QA roles?
32:10 – Exploratory testing and finding the unknowns
42:00 – Practical ways teams can improve quality today

How hands on are you?

Wed, 03 Dec 2025 09:00:00 -0000

How hands-on should an engineering manager be, and what do we lose or gain as we move away from the code? In this episode we dig into the messy middle between technical work, people leadership and the hunt for that spark that keeps us excited.

Using our own careers as the backdrop, we unpack what “hands-on” really means.

Is it code, system thinking, process, delivery, people, or all of it at once?

We talk about losing technical confidence, finding excitement again, navigating vulnerability, and working out when you’re still adding value… or just getting in the way.

And yes, unicycles somehow made it into the episode.

If this sparks any thoughts, tell us what you think about the episode or about being hands-on yourself. You can find us both on LinkedIn.

Chapters

00:00 – Intro and what we mean by “hands-on”
01:23 – Code, contribution and confidence
04:35 – Technical work beyond coding
08:39 – Losing old skills and chasing excitement
11:54 – Enabling engineers and knowing who to bring in
18:51 – Vulnerability, updates and not knowing the detail
22:22 – Learning complexity over time
26:39 – EMs without engineering backgrounds
29:56 – Missing hands-on work and finding balance
31:52 – EM archetypes and where we fit
45:42 – Staying technical through side projects
48:03 – What we miss, what excites us and takeaways
53:46 – How to share feedback and keep the chat going

Links

Pat Kua’s 5 Engineering Manager Archetypes: https://www.patkua.com/blog/5-engineering-manager-archetypes/

Simon Wardley - From here to there and back again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEjjCI3kTM4

Connect with us

Tell us what you think about the episode or about being hands-on yourself:

Si on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sijobling
Neil on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/neilyounger

Credits

Created by Si Jobling and Neil Younger

Recorded and edited in Descript

Hosted on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube

Produced, artwork and publishing by Unstyled Studios

Check out our podcast host, Pinecast. Start your own podcast for free with no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-b0b82e for 40% off for 4 months, and support Managing Engineers.

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Always learning

Wed, 19 Nov 2025 06:00:00 -0000

In this episode, Si and Neil dive into learning as engineering managers, how they approach it personally, how teams respond to it, and why it’s weirdly hard to make time for something everyone claims to value.

They chat about learning budgets, 10 percent time, hackathons, internal conferences, external speakers, audiobooks, Blinkist, reflection time, and why inspiration often hits when you’re nowhere near your laptop. They unpack different learning styles, the pressure to deliver, how to support engineers who don’t know what to learn next, and why rest is just as important as active learning.

Links mentioned in the episode

Here are the references we talked through:

Wardley Mapping: https://learnwardleymapping.com
LeadDev Conference: https://leaddev.com
Blinkist: https://www.blinkist.com
LinkedIn Learning: https://www.linkedin.com/learning
Agile Cambridge: https://agilecambridge.net
R&D tax credits: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/corporation-tax-research-and-development-rd-relief

Connect with us

Tell us what you think about the episode or learning yourself:

Si on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sijobling/
Neil on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/neil-younger/

Chapters

[00:00] Setting up episode two and the learning theme
[01:39] Why learning matters to us as engineering managers
[03:30] Budgets, 10 percent time and the reality of making space
[07:14] Internal learning, conferences and hackathons
[09:01] External training, facilitators and different learning styles
[13:14] Conferences, insights and the value of being in the room
[17:51] Making learning visible and building a culture around it
[20:20] Books, audiobooks, Blinkist and how we actually consume content
[25:18] Reflection time, walking, swimming and idea generation
[33:03] Helping people choose what to learn next (including AI pressure)
[34:25] Rest, burnout, and why taking breaks is part of learning
[44:05] Community budgets, experts and learning that sticks
[47:09] What we both learned this episode and wrapping up

Credits

Produced by Unstyled Studios

Hosted by Si Jobling & Neil Younger

Audio editing by Si Jobling

Made with Descript

Hosted on Pinecast

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Version 2 - The Pilot

Wed, 05 Nov 2025 06:00:00 -0000

In this pilot episode, Si and Neil get to know each other on mic for the first time.

They chat about how they got into software engineering, the early days of web and testing communities, and how their careers shifted into management. There are stories about deleting databases, breaking websites, rediscovering in-person meetups, and what it really means to learn and lead. They also touch on AI, inclusion, and the joy (and nerves) of starting something new.

WE'D LOVE YOUR FEEDBACK!

Got thoughts on this episode, ideas for future topics, or just want to say hello? Connect with us on LinkedIn:

Si - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sijobling/
Neil - https://www.linkedin.com/in/neil-younger/

CHAPTERS

[00:00] Setting up and getting comfortable [01:00] Work schedules and the nine-day fortnight [02:00] Who we are and how we got here [08:00] Biggest mistakes in tech (and what we learned) [12:00] Early tech influences and first computers [17:00] The importance of community in tech [20:00] Online vs in-person events [26:00] Skill swaps and learning together [30:00] The power of community in learning [32:00] Talking about AI in software engineering [37:00] How we actually use AI day to day [39:00] The future of AI and education [41:00] What we’re trying to achieve with this podcast [44:00] Learning new tech and making the space comfortable [46:00] Diversity, privilege, and representation in tech [49:00] Planning the first 10 episodes and asking for feedback [52:00] Wrapping up and where to reach us

Find out more at http://podcast.managingengineers.net

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Team Health_

Tue, 10 Oct 2023 23:34:00 -0000

Performance Reviews_

Wed, 13 Sep 2023 15:34:59 -0000

This one is about performance reviews - the anti-patterns of how things shouldn't be done and some pro tips on how things COULD be done.

03:57 What are performance reviews?

11:11 How to do performance reviews

15:27 Any themes or trends?

19:48 The danger of metrics

22:46 Who gets the hype?

27:11 The future of performance reviews

31:57 Wrap it up in a bow

Email your thoughts to info@managingengineerspodcast.com or reach out to https://managingengineers.net/@Adrian or https://managingengineers.net/@Si if you're on the Mastodon fediverse.

Support Managing Engineers by contributing to their tip jar: https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/managingengineers

Find out more at http://podcast.managingengineers.net

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