You're listening to season ten of Mobile suit Breakdown, a weekly podcast covering the entirety of Sci-Fi mega franchise Mobile suit Gundam from 1979 to today.
This is episode 10.24 mothers helper and were your hosts? Im Tom and this year for Mothers Day, give mom what she really wants, victory over the side two alliance and Dominion over all mankind.
And Im Mina, new to Victory Gundam and still reeling from the new requiem for vengeance trailer that dropped yesterday. Tom is 95% of the way to convincing me to record a short bonus episode of my very hottest takes, so we'll see if that happens. Mobile Suit Breakdown is made possible by our paying subscribers on Patreon. Thank you all and special thanks to our newest patrons, Ri and Robert K. You keep MSB Genki this week.
Victory Episode 24 Shuto Kobo or the Battle of the Capital the episode was written by Okea Akira, storyboarded by Nishimori Akira and directed by Tamada Hiroshi with one of my favorite directors, Murase Shuko, in charge of animation. This episode was made very early in Murase's career, but by this point he had already distinguished himself as one of the main animation directors on Gundam F 91, overseeing the best part of that film, the 20 minutes long colony attack. At the start, you may notice some similarities between that film and the colony attack depicted in this episode, but now.
The recap.
The touching reunion between the kids, Susie and Carlman, Warren, Odello, and Uso cannot last.
Capitol guardsmen roam the streets checking the.
Identification papers of everyone they meet. Fearing capture, the kids split up, Suzy and the baby will return to the house where, at that very moment, Shaakhti is meeting with her mother. USo heads for the victory Gundam. With the mobile suit, he can cause a distraction and allow Odello and Warren to lose their pursuers and double back to the clinic where Martina is still recuperating. Meanwhile, Shakhti finally comes face to face with her biological mother, Queen Maria, pure Armonia, leader of Zanskar. It is not a happy reunion at first. Shakti insists that the only mother she recognizes is the one who raised her in Kasarelia. She even tries to flee the room, but Uncle Chronicle reminds her that leaving now means returning to the horrors of the battlefield. That is enough to stop the young girl in her tracks. She stands frozen at the threshold. Maria embraces her, but Shakti is rigid in her mothers arms, her eyes wide like an animal in a trap. Katajina, in the next room over, watches the whole scene through half a dozen different hidden cameras. Chronicle, having discharged his role as mediator for the reunion joins her there. It seems he plans to use this footage to convince the public at large of Shakti's legitimacy. Katagina queries his motives in all of this, and Chronicle explains that he wants to overturn Zanskars current patriarchal system in order to realize the true matriarchy imagined by Fonz Kagati. With Harrows help, USo reclaims the victory Gundam from its hiding space. At the same time, Odello and Warren manage to slip their pursuers and get back to the clinic, but none of them can stay there. The Highlanders dont have valid id cards either. They must leave Martina and hope the clinic can hide her. It is too dangerous to move the girl so soon after her surgery. As they sneak back to the Aeneas and Sinope, Uso tries to decide what to do now that he is alone, but for his Haro. Before he can decide, hes taken unawares by a repaired and upgraded sandhog. With a wave of electricity, it overloads the gundams circuits. Power courses up through the victorys controls and into Uso's arm. His muscles spasm. He cant let go. Seeing Uso in danger, Haro throws himself on the control stick. There's a pop, a sizzle, a small explosion, then smoke, and the little robo orb goes dark.
Fortunately for UsO, the crew of the.
Sand Hoege want to capture the gundam rather than destroy it. Air raid sirens interrupt them before they can finish securing the stricken machine for the Leanhorse Junior, a frankensteined battleship comprised of bits of the Lean horse and the squid captured from the Kailaskili fleet is raiding the Zanskar homeland. Elsewhere, it transpired that the side two alliance fleet was routed in its first engagement with Zanskar. Now the survivors are being pursued by the victorious muturman fleet. The league hopes this raid will force them to break off the pursuit and return to defend the homeland. The timing couldn't be better. The colony's defenses are badly depleted, the capital guard is ill suited for this kind of action, and even the yellowjacket hq forces are mostly composed of student soldiers, but they do have chronicle and his contio. While the League forces blast military facilities and duel with the outmatched defenders, Uso is able to reactivate the victory's core fighter. He slips through the melee to the castle like palace where Shakti is staying. The girl senses his approach and slips from her guards to meet him on the front lawn. The two childhood friends embrace, overjoyed to see each other again, but Uso must return to the fight and Shakti to her new role as princess. Uso puts on a brave face. Its clear by now that he wishes she could go back with him. But theres nothing for her among the league militaire but violence and danger. Isnt this her best hope of being happy and safe? Perhaps here she will find something that only she can do. Uso leaves with the other league soldiers, and the Highlanders take the opportunity to slip away as well. Theyll be back soon, though they still need to retrieve Martina.
Everybody keeps telling Shakti that she should be so happy and grateful that she has been reunited with her mother, this stranger who abandoned her ten years ago or something. Everyone from Uso to chronicle Shakti's own feelings seem much more ambivalent.
I have a theory. Shakti is extremely inconvenient. She is a displaced person, but she's not at all interested in participating in the fighting. She wants no part of combat. She has never at any point participated directly in it or expressed any desire.
To do so and loathes it so much that that is the cudgel that chronicle uses.
She has frequently tried to convince Uso to leave the fighting behind. And so for most of the people talking to her in one way or another, this current situation gives some resolution, and they can say, ah, Shakti is dealt with. We don't have to worry about her anymore.
Hmm.
No one at any point asks her how she feels about meeting this woman or what she wants to do now. Not even Uso.
Uso, assuming he knows what the women around him want, is just classic Uso.
Warren and Odello voice the opinion that, oh, well, if she's a Zanskar princess, maybe she'll be able to make Zanskar better from the inside. Suzy is very young, and her attitude is, I think, largely based on the fact that she is an orphan and what she wouldn't give to have had a spare mom lying around to look after her.
Uh huh. But when Suzy is talking to Shakti, after talking about how wonderful it is that Shakti has met up with her mother again, Susie says, realizes, oh, this isn't actually making you feel any better. A lot of the characters here are trying to put a good spin on a situation that they see as inevitable. Uso clearly misses Shakti. He says he doesn't want to be alone when he's thinking about her. Uso really wants to see Shakti again. He wants to be with Shakti again, but also he thinks this is what's best for her, or he thinks this is inevitable. And so he tries to put a good spin on it.
I'm glad you mentioned that, because it explains a moment that I was very confused by in the episode when she mentions to him that her being reunited with her birth mother makes the two of them enemies in one. Not necessarily, but. .2. He seems very troubled by this and then just sort of changes the subject. It's like, oh, well, if she tracked you down now, she must want your help governing Zanskar. I bet it's so hard. You're going to be able to be so useful and valuable to her. Which. They found Shakti entirely by chance. They didn't go looking for her by fate.
Fate hangs over this whole episode.
The one point doesn't in any way follow from the other, right? Her being Uso's enemy, potentially now, and her mother wanting her there to help with the governance of the realm are two totally separate issues. But it's him trying to put a positive spin on things for Shakti. The other thing about this, and you mentioned fate and you mentioned everybody viewing this as inevitable, is the very biological, essentialist attitude of all of it. Well, of course you want to be with your birth mother. And one of Shakti's first lines in the episode is, my only mother is my mother in Kasarelia, who raised me.
This person is a stranger to Shakti, except for the fact that they share a bunch of DNA.
Well, and Shakti.
Retina patterns and fingerprints and voice prints and whatever and other analyses they did of dubious scientific merit for determining this relationship.
Well, and Shakti knows her as her aunt Maria, who she doesn't remember. She only has pictures of the two of them together.
But there's this line from Maria.
Oh, right. That. Like, I knew the moment I looked at her that she was my daughter.
Right. A man would never be able to understand a mother's intuition. There is this sense that motherhood conveys a magical quality, a magical connection to the children. I think the writing in this episode is so good because all of these disparate strands are all getting woven back together again. You can't talk about, oh, Shakti's relationship to her mother without talking about this seemingly magical connection between mother and child. And that brings you to Maria and Mariaism and her status as the mother of Zanskar. And that connects you to chronicle and his desire to reform Janskar into a true. The subs call it matriarchy instead of the patriarchy that it is now. And that connects you back again to this idea of Shakti needing to help her mother do something and it all just keeps going in circles, overlapping and connecting to each other.
You kind of busted the conversation wide open, and I'm like, uh, sorry, let's focus again, rewinding a bit to go back to everyone else's attitudes about Shaktis situation and her own attitude about it. Part of why I opened by saying Shakti is inconvenient is the bit at the end where Uso leaves to be part of the end of this fight. And Shakti moves as though she wants to go with him. And Suzy holds her back and says, you can't get in their way now because this was the other way in which Shakti was inconvenient. She was a non combatant who was always around, so she's always in danger. She's always needing to be protected but is not contributing to the fight, but is also not willing to, like, get herself out of harm's way.
Shakti has spent the whole series looking for a place where she can be, and maybe this is the counterpart to that inconvenience. From her perspective, she is looking for the place where she belongs, and for a while, she thought that was Kasarelia, but it eventually became clear that it was impossible to go back there. She accepted that it meant that there really was no place for her. Now she has found a place, a place where she is wanted. Though I think this episode gives us plenty of reasons to be skeptical about just how benign chronicles plans for her are. But then, Shakti, everybody around her knows she's looking for a place where she belongs, and they see here a place custom fitted for her, a place that she was literally born to occupy and.
One that any child would think of as enviable. Oh, a princess in a castle. Who wouldn't want that? Who wouldn't want to be wearing nice clothes and eating good food and safe?
Though there is already some indication from chronicles life that the life of a Zanskar prince or princess may not be so comfortable, happy, or safe. But Shakti seems to recognize that this place isn't right for her. Its a place, but its not her place.
After everything weve seen of Shakti and her life, the life of an aristocrat feels so wrong for her. This is a young woman who seemed to quite enjoy working and being useful, which might be why Uso brought that up, right? He knows her well enough to know that she wants to be of use, not for her idling away the afternoons in a luxurious room full of vases of roses and bowls of fruit.
I mean, think back to previous gundam think of Lena being kidnapped and then brought up like an aristocrat in double Zeta. Or think of Cecily being abducted from the bakery where she worked with her dad and forced to become the figurehead of Cosmo Babylonia.
And at least in private, Uso can recognize that this was maybe not the right thing for her, that it maybe was not the right choice to leave her behind.
But Uso is conflicted because he personally doesn't want Shakti to stay here. He's worried, not without reason, that he is imposing his own wants, his own desires for Shakti onto her. And he's consciously holding himself back from doing that. His speech to her at the end about, like, you know, maybe you can be helpful here. Maybe it's a good thing that you're here. Like, we'll be enemies, but okay, like, that is an act of self sacrifice on YSo's part. Like many acts of self sacrifice of this sort, it's not necessary, not appreciated. And he would be better off not doing it. But he's trying. The boy is trying.
The only thing Shakti demonstrates any desire for whatsoever in this entire episode is USO. Uso is calling to me and she runs headlong outside despite all the air raid sirens and the guards instinctively moving towards his mobile suit when he gets ready to leave, the really lovely scene of their reunion. And they're embracing each other in a way.
Shakti being captured by Zanskar, analyzed and then having them say, okay, we know exactly what role is right for you. The role that you're literally perfect for and that no one else could fulfill except you, is kind of the same thing that happened to Uso. When he started piloting the Gundam and the league. Militaire saw him and said, hey, this is the genius pilot boy. For both of them. The place they want to be, the place they need to be is next to the other one. Uso wants to be with Shakti. Shakti wants to be with Uso. And yet the world divides them. It is convenient for the adults around them to pit them against each other. The princess and the pilot. I need to watch that show. Ive heard its really good.
Theres also a tension between Marias stated position as the mother with all these instinctive and intuitive insights about her child and the way she behaves and the way the scene is staged. And some of this might be cultural, I admit, but shes sitting over on the couch while Shakti is sitting at a table. And they are not looking at each other. They are not facing each other. They don't fully explain to Shakti why she was left, only that it was for her protection. No one has said anything about who her biological father is or what, if any, connection the parents who raised her have to Maria or to Zanskar. She wears a hat with a veil, which, throughout history, there have been a lot of reasons to wear veils for protection from the sun, for protection from sand and grit. But by the early nineties, that kind of hat and that kind of veil has a very funereal vibe to me. I don't think of it as, oh, this is just a fetching, attractive hat that I'm gonna wear out on the town.
I think of it as anonymizing. I'm sure she's hiding her identity.
I'm sure that's what it's meant to be in this context. But for me, it still feels funereal. And then she asks Shakti if she can embrace her. But she doesn't really wait for an answer. She just does. And Shakti's facial expression, Shakti's body language. She's mostly just shocked. She's in shock. She doesn't know what to do or what to say.
Well, it's another palindromic episode. It opens with Shakti receiving an embrace from her mother, not participating in it, really, in any way. And then it closes with Shakti embracing Uso with like vigor, with energy, with conviction. She races towards him and throws her arms around his neck. The contrast is extremely strong.
I just checked my notes, and she even flinches when Maria first touches her.
And this reunion between mother and child has been stage managed. This is not an authentic, organic experience. Shakti clearly is not in on it. I don't know if Maria is, but the fact that the whole room has been bugged is being monitored by, like, eight different secret cameras, that they have a whole, you know, surveillance suite watching everything that's happening. And Chronicle even says, with this, we'll be able to convince the public that this is actually Maria's child. This is not merely about reuniting mother and child. This is a political play. To what end? We'll find out. Clearly, it has something to do with this plan Chronicle has laid out about trying to realize the matriarchal society described by Fons Cagati.
Who is Fons cagatie?
Fons Cagatie is the advisor with the cyborg eye.
Okay?
The bald guy. I think he's from the Jupiter empire originally and is now the chief advisor and prime minister or something to Queen Maria. Like, if you think of it in terms of first gundam, if Maria is Zion Daikundhe, then Fons cagati is like daguanzabi.
Okay, except that it sounds as though if Fons Cagati really is in favor of a more like, woman dominated society, then he's not undercutting Maria or trying to get rid of her.
I meant more in terms of the roles they play in the government.
Okay.
The messianic philosopher figurehead, head of state, and then the actual in the trenches political operative, head of government.
Got it. I found it very ironic that Katagina is there looking at all the security cameras after so much discussion early in this season of Uso's surreptitious pictures of her. Now she's the one spying on Shakti. I did wonder if she was being sarcastic when she described it as a touching scene.
We know she has extremely complicated feelings about her own mother and the abandonment.
Thereby, and also that she doesn't, generally speaking, care much about other people.
You mentioned that the word chronicle uses for matriarchy here doesn't exactly mean matriarchy in the english sense.
Well, so I was very curious because in the translation, in the english subtitles, they say matriarchy as proposed by fons cagatie versus the patriarchy that they have now. And I believe for patriarchy, they say danse sacay, which really means, like, men's society, and is used to mean, like, a male dominated society or a society that caters substantially to the needs and power of men. And it can mean patriarchy in the sense that we often use the term now. But there are other words that can also mean that. But then I listen to the line again, and he doesn't say Jose from matriarchy. He doesn't say women's society. He actually says boke shakai. And boke means the maternal line. It means matrilineal, which I think has some very interesting connotations, different connotations than women's society would have. Because, again, it draws the focus to motherhood, because it's all about the maternal side of the family, about inheritance. On the maternal side, it's about how power is shared and passed down through the generations, but on the maternal line instead of the paternal line, to women instead of to men. But it requires the act of having children. It requires the production of a next generation.
And matrilineal societies, societies that practice enatic descent, aren't necessarily matriarchies. You can have male dominated societies where lineage is determined along the matrilineal line. There was just recently some anthropological studies that suggested the ancient celts in Europe may have practiced a matrilineal society with political power still held mostly by men. Because the thing about a matrilineal society is you can be basically 100% certain that a particular child is the child of a particular mother, it's much less reliable to try to determine who is someone's father.
Well, I mean, the old line, before we had genetic testing technology, was a father can never be sure. Clearly, in their society, age and birth order already take precedence over gender. Otherwise he would be in Maria's place now as it is. But it's possible that there are certain social or political pressures on him as the next error in line that would be alleviated if government would acknowledge Shakti as Marias heir.
Also, I assume that Maria took the throne not by dint of inheritance, but because she is a messianic psychic figure who leads a cult. And chronicle probably cant do that. Chronicle cant get up there and be the mother of Zanskar. Shocked he could, though. In fact, if what he is trying to do is perpetuate this system of Maria ism that exists now and deepen its roots in society. They need an heir. They need a psychic woman who can take over for Maria or otherwise. This whole Zanskar empire theyve created will last exactly one generation.
And in some ways, an heir with no attendant husband and husbands. Family is perfect if they can get over whatever moral hangups they might have about children born out of wedlock. Because a husband might try to usurp Maria's power, a husband's family might jostle for position in Zanskar society. A child fully formed from the ether carries fewer complications and fewer risks.
Since first gundam, there has been this entanglement between women priestesses, psychic power, enlightenment and motherhood. So often it is the women who have these powerful psychic abilities, who have this strong spirit which counterbalances the material, the physical might of the male protagonists. Lala inducts Amuro into the other world, the beyond of his new type powers. Camille's encounters with four and Rosamiya expand his own worldview, his own glimpse into the invisible. For judo, it's his encounters with Puru, with Sarasa and Rasara of the moon tribe, and with Haman, and then in Shar's counterattack. In that final scene when Omuro and Shar are arguing about what happened to Lala. And Shar has that line about how she could have been a mother. To me, the sense is that Lala was cut off before she could reach her final form. That her final form was to become a kind of mystic, psychic, spiritual mother figure, to char to the world, to all of humanity, in order to induct them into the next stage of their existence. And I think Maria continues that tradition. And this is also tied into, like, the pro matriarchal feminism of the 20th century and a desire to return to a pre modern, prehistoric, imagined, theorized matriarchal society that was spiritually superior to the one we have now.
It just feels so outdated at this point. The discourse around feminism has gone so far beyond that. I mean, for a very long time, women have been associated with the primitive, the instinctive, whereas men are associated with the intellect and with science and modernity.
Male gods come from the sky, female gods come from the earth, phonic and moist and right.
Mens power derives from science and from weapons and from things that can be explained. And womens power is deep and dark and mysterious.
Witches live in swamps and wizards live in towers.
Its all a bit ridiculous. I mean, its very gender essentialist in a way that has lost currency even as a way to promote women in society.
And I think of this in part because in ancient japanese history, in the early and pre heian periods, there is a lot of evidence that japanese families practiced matrilocal marriage, which is to say husband and wife lived apart. The wife remained with her family, the kids lived with her, usually up until a certain age when they became, like, useful, and then they would be sent to the husband's family. And this coincides with things like the shamanous queen Himiko, who I'm convinced Queen Maria is meant to evoke. There is a sense of, like, that the solution to humanity's troubles lies not in the stars, not in progress and the future, but in recapturing something primitive, something good from the past that has been lost.
Two points that may complicate this view of femininity and of women in the world, and that may suggest Tominos ideas around this are more complex. One aspect of this particular way of thinking about women used to be people saying, like, oh, if women ran society, there'd be no violence. Like, if women ran the world, there'd be no wars. And yet here we are. Clearly, Maria has no particular distaste for combat. If she feels it's necessary to bring the world under the wing of Maria ism.
No, I'm pretty sure she said she felt really bad about it. It makes her very sad when her fleet decimates the side two alliance and then slaughters the survivors, the other complicating.
Factor being, as we discussed when we talked about her meeting with Shakti and then that in every subsequent scene, Shakti is alone. Shes not really a mother. She gave birth to Shakti, but nothing about whats happened so far demonstrates that she has any desire to be a mother to Shakti on a day to day. This is what living with a kid is like basis. She can make the pretty speech, she can be mother to the nation, mother to the army, but to an actual child, I'm not certain she is going to rise to the occasion. And I think for Tomino to include that here demonstrates that he doesn't just straight up believe all of that, like, ah, it's her birth mother, so it'll all be fine. And this is how it's supposed to be business.
No, I agree. I also think the episode tacitly criticizes chronicles position because you'll remember they cut from him explaining his agenda directly to that scene of Odello and Warren and speculating that, oh, maybe Shakti can make Sanskar a better place. And it's like, obviously no, she's not going to be able to do that. And I think we're meant to read the implausibility of Odello and Warren's hope for the future as a commentary on the similar implausibility of Chronicles plan.
In case we forgot from last week, a few more reminders in this episode of just how ill prepared the Zanskar capital is to be attacked, to be under any kind of threat, even the Capitol guards that everyone talks about with a certain amount of reverence and fear seem pretty hapless. There's that scene. A whole bunch of them are chasing USO, and they almost trip over each other coming out of this alleyway and fall in a big heap in the road. They wind up shooting at holograms and damaging local buildings.
Well, that's the thing about militarized police. They're very scary when they're facing random civilians or peaceful protests, but against an actual military, they usually don't stand up very well.
USO and Haru run up against one of those other red patrol orbs, and it gets taken out by a single truncheon left on the floor. People could just put down sticks, and they would destroy every last one of these robots, apparently. And then almost at the end of the episode, the guards outside the palace, who initially are, stay and defend the palace. But the moment marbet lands in a full victory gundam, they all flee. They're all out of there. And I'm not saying they were wrong to run but it was a very fast turnaround, and not a one of them grabs the princess. They're not very good at their jobs is what I'm saying.
No, those like Cobra commander, riot cop hats theyre all wearing do a decent job of hiding their identities. So we dont know like what these people look like. For all we know, theyre all teenagers. Theyre all the student soldiers weve been hearing about.
It gets mentioned that even Yellowjacket headquarters. Yellowjackets, the most vicious, by reputation anyway, of the Zanskar soldiers. Also mostly students.
At this point, I'm still not positive on whether the yellow jackets are like a specific unit within Bespa or all of Bespa has not been made clear.
The fact that the pilots of the Sandhosh, who at least one of them is a colony corporation official, we don't learn anything about the other pilot, but that they leave USO in there when they capture the mobile suit because they're so confident they've disabled the mobile suit. What?
Well, if he hadnt had a haro in there, he would have been completely doomed. No one ever accounts for the Haro factor.
Haro has had a lot of very important and significant moments throughout this series. However, this episode might be the biggest because it goes a long way towards saying that Haro has intelligence. Haro isnt just programmed to do things. Haro is able to exercise judgment. Theres no indication that Uso tells Haro to use holograms to confuse the cops. He doesnt tell Haro to attack them so he can get down this manhole.
Haro not three laws compliant. No one ever told Haro not to harm humans.
When they are sneaking through these other passages of the colony, Uso asks Haro what do you think? And Haros like yeah, its safe.
Go.
Now. When Uso is being electrocuted and cant let go of the controls on the Gundam, Haru clamps onto the controls and Uso's hands so that Uso can get free, which results in Haro being fried. At one point USo apologizes to Haro, and at another point he addresses Haro after Haro's been fried because he's forgotten. And this. They don't make much of it in the episode, but it's so sad to think that Haro has been this constant in Uso's life, possibly Uso's oldest friend. And Haro got really hurt protecting him.
Yeah.
And they don't know if they're gonna be able to fix Haro.
I believe they will. I believe they'll fix Haro.
I believe they will too, because Haro is too wonderful to be out of the show this early. This is too soon for a series wrap on Haroehdeh.
As a wise man once said, thats a high grade robot.
This episode had some really gorgeous animation. There were multiple points during this episode when I turned to Tom like, is this the same show weve been watching? What is happening here?
Dont worry. They do include a couple of moments of classic victory Jank, just to remind you that you are, in fact, still watching the same show.
The staging of the opening scene with Odello and Warren playing with Carlman, and then Susie is sitting directly behind Uso on a staircase so she can lean her arms on the top of his head. That just felt very natural, but also something you dont often see in animation. On my second watch through, I mostly noticed the change in animation quality on close ups of peoples faces. There's just more detail, more line work, more shadowing. We noticed there was very little shading and shadowing in early episodes of victory. This episode had quite a lot of it. So much so that occasionally the faces almost feel off model because the extra level of detail makes them look so.
Different when UsO is getting electrocuted.
Oh, my gosh. The movement of his hair in that scene is so good.
And they do a lot of cool things with the colors and the way the electricity races around inside cockpit. It's a good looking episode. It's a good episode. Overall. I particularly liked the way they handled the resolution of this battle between Zanskar's Mutterman fleet and the side two alliance. It reminded me a bit of Disney's Mulan. Early on in the movie, there's a sequence where the heroes of the movie are just like an auxiliary unit that has recently been raised and is marching off to join the rest of the army. But before they can join the rest of the army, the main force makes contact with the Huns and they get completely wiped out. I think they're the Huns.
Yeah.
Yes. To defeat the Huns. Right. In the song. In the song.
How could you forget the song?
Look, there are a lot of different steppe nomads. Could have been Mongols, could have been humans, could have been pechenegs, but yes, the song, the Huns. Anyway, the battle between these two forces, which I'm sure is very epic, is not depicted in any way. It is merely that they arrive after the battle is already over and find the ruins of the army. And as a kid watching that, I was a very small kid, this made a huge impression on me. Sometimes, as is the case here, you can achieve a more powerful effect on the viewer by not depicting something, by not depicting the big, exciting battle and letting us fill it in with our imaginations.
This is also not the first time that marbet has been, let's just say, kind of dense about the sort of strategic implications of what's happening or the strategic rationale behind a particular plan or course of action. Although after your description of the events, I wonder if maybe this is part of Marbet's role in the story is to be a bit dense so that someone has an excuse to explain to the presumably young audience, we're going to mount this sort of feint. We don't really intend to capture or take out the Zanskar capital, but they have to come defend it, which will make it easier for the remnants of the side two alliance fleet to get away and regroup. And we really need them because they are also covering our rear.
Yeah, totally. This is the kind of thing that would have been explained to Uso if Uso were around. In the absence of UsO, Marbet apparently is the person they had on hand, the voice actor who was available as there's that really funny moment later on where Marbet is like, talking to Oliver and then we don't hear Oliver's responses, presumably because it wasn't worth bringing the actor into the studio to do those lines or he wasn't available or something.
There are a couple of t shirts hanging on a laundry line in one of the alleyways USO runs past that are Easter eggs for NBA basketball in the United States. One says Utah Jazz and one says Shaq, as in Shaquille oneal.
Thats only an assumption. It could be any Shaq Radio shack. Um, shark, but spelled wrong. Part of whats so fun about this episode is its really good. But you can also still see all of the places where corners were cut. They still do that one cut to a generic explosion thing. There's a bit where the victory takes off from the surface of the colony and they've clearly just taken a static cell and slid it upwards.
That one looks pretty silly.
There was a bit that really reveals the sort of limitations they're working under. Where I think Susie and Elisha are standing next to each other. This only happens very briefly. And because Susie was a stowaway and then got lost before Odello and Warren met all the highlights kids, the two almost never interact, and so you almost never realize that their clothes are the exact same shade of green. And so when they stand next to each other, they just form an amorphous blob. Because this is pre digipaint, they are still painting the cells. They are still working with a limited number of colors that they are allowed to use for budget reasons.
It's rare that it feels as though the eye catch is perfectly timed, but this eye catch was perfectly timed. It's a nice little internal cliffhanger moment in the episode, which is a great place to put your ad break. And then almost at the very end of the episode, as USO is wondering if they should have left Shakti behind or not, there is this pan of outer space that just shows these innumerable colonies and most of these colonies, and it's a still probably that they pan across. There might be some effects over it are really just sort of the hint of some bright lines, right? The indication of the mirrors on each of these oneill cylinder colonies, and there's so many of them, the impression is of almost numberless colonies, like it would be pointless to try to count them all. And it really makes a the Zanskar capital feel small and alone.
And now, ninas research on the names of a couple of Zanskar mobile suits.
Yes, everyone, this week we have the latest installment of one of our favorite research topics, the origins of mobile suit names. This time around, I am looking at two thematically linked Zanskar mobile suits, the Abigor and the Shaitarn. For both of these, I confirmed that the Katakana spelling of their name corresponds to the Katakana spelling of certain supernatural or spiritual entities from religion and myth. Abigor or Abigoru, also known by the names Eligor and Elegos, is the name of one of the great dukes of hell, as described in several different grimoires of magic, mysticism, and demonology. Texts like the lesser key of Solomon, Latin, le megaton, clavicula, salamonis, the office of spirits, and de prestigious demonum, all compiled and sourced from other texts and published in the 16th and 17th centuries. Such texts usually included practical instructions for ceremonial magic, diagrams of sigils and magical symbols, lists of necessary items, and so on. Often the goal of these spells was to summon or conjure a demon. None of the sources I found reference or mention any similar grimoire or text from before the 15th century, or any certain origin for the character being idea of Abigor. The online encyclopedias are a bit thin on detail, and most other sources on the subject are for practitioners of magic and are not as concerned with the earliest origins of the concept. While abagors specific dominions, powers, associations, and depictions can vary across sources, he is most commonly described as the ruler of legions of spirit spirits, a general who leads the hosts of hell into battle. Abagor discovers hidden things and knows the future of wars, attracts the favor of lords, knights, and other important persons, and is depicted in the form of a goodly knight carrying a lance, an ensign, and a serpent. Abagor is often depicted on horseback, though the specific nature of the horse, normal, winged, or demonic, varies of so not only a demon and a duke of hell, but also specifically associated with warfare and military leaders, which in my opinion makes it a great choice for a mobile suit name the name Abigor crops up in a lot of other media, as does the name Eligor. There's an austrian black metal band, a character from the 2007 ghost Rider movie an enemy in Final Fantasy VII, and its remake an NPC in some old editions of the Dungeons and Dragons tabletop roleplaying game a Persona and demon in several Shin Megami tensei games, and most humorously, a character in a german only club Nintendo Mario comic. Next up the Shaitarn or Shaitan in Islam, a Shaitan is an evil spirit, devil or demon that tempts and incites humans, and sometimes also Jinnah to wicked and sinful ways. It is cognate to and has the same origins as the term satan as used in English to mean the devil, but in Islam it's not one specific entity, although the semi corresponding figure Iblis is the ruler of the shayatin and is often described as one of them. The shayatin are evil spirits that are invisible to humans, almost a psychological phenomenon in that they whisper encouragement to do bad things into the hearts and minds of people. The Quran describes shayaten teaching human sorcery, spying on and stealing the news of angels, and encouraging people to dispute with the faithful. Satan comes to English from Hebrew via post classical Latin and Middle French, and the Arabic Shaitan comes from Hebrew as well. Fascinating tidbit. In its earliest appearances in the Hebrew scriptures and Old Testament, the Hebrew word denotes a human adversary, and it isn't until later that the term, combined with the definite article comes to designate an angelic being hostile to humankind, who tempts humans to evil and accuses them before God. As Louis Isaac Rabinowitz explains in the Encyclopedia Judaica. In its original application, in fact, it is a common noun meaning an adversary who opposes and obstructs. It is applied to human adversaries in one Samuel 29, four, two Samuel 1923, one kings 518, 1114, 23, 25, and its related verb is used of prosecution in law courts in psalms 109, six, and the role of an antagonist in general. In psalms 38, 2100, 9420, and 29, Satan is variously depicted as a fallen angel, a demon, and a metaphor for the inclination toward evil that exists in all people. Sometimes Satan is a supreme being, the evil counterpoint to a good supreme being, with their opposing armies of demons and angels locked in struggle. Sometimes Satan is depicted as an angelic being, subordinate to God but antagonistic to humanity, tempting them to wicked behavior and then revealing their sins. I don't feel as though the designs of either of these mobile suits look much like depictions of demons, european or Middle Eastern. But it does feel appropriate to name mobile suits horrifyingly destructive weapons of war, for, on the one hand, a demonic general who promises gory victory at a price, and the devil on your shoulder, encouraging all of a person's worst impulses.
When you mentioned that Abagor is capable of seeing the future, that really struck me, because you remember the Abigor mobile suit in Gundam, which looks a bit like a dude in armor, as I guess all mobile suits do. Now that I think about it, maybe that's not as significant. But the significant part, the bit that stood out to me, the Abigor has a third eye, that it opens up extrasensory perception, the ability to perceive the future. Perhaps also that because Abigor is a.
Knight depicted on a horse or serpent.
Or some kind of carrying a serpent.
Is usually on a horse of some kind. It's just sometimes it looks like part horse, part lion, or I've seen wings on that horse.
I feel like I've seen multiple heads sometimes, or a horse with serpent heads. But the point is, as a transforming mobile suit, it has both its fighting formation and then its fast movement formation.
I didn't wind up citing any of them or pulling any of the various occult and witchcraft websites that came up when I was searching. But some of them definitely contend oh, some of the bloodiest victories in history can be attributed to commanders who summoned Abigor for advice or assistance. And what is the creation of a new mobile suit? If nothing, selling some part of your soul for victory? What is the arms race? If not that something is a little.
Suspicious about the timing, like in the real world, because sorry, but the Megami tensei series started in the late eighties, I believe. Abigor Eligor first appeared in a 1990 mega ten game, so there may have been a vogue for interest in medieval demonology in Japan in the early nineties. Future research required.
They're also just great names. I was looking at this list of all of the. You know, it's princes and dukes and marquises and a whole who's who of hell. But all the demons have great names.
They really do. There was a brief moment. This is so weird. But for a while, when I was in middle school, a bunch of the boys in my class got really into demonology and were, like, quoting to each other how many legions of demons each of the grand Dukes commanded.
Oh, my gosh. I think the highest number I saw attributed to Abagor was 60. 60 legions of spirits?
Yeah, but hell has so many legions, you really have to compare. Like, is that a lot? I don't know. I'm not an expert in the Goetia. I have very few grimoires.
I'm sure there are historians out there who have traced some of these old texts and their sort of interrelationship to each other. And some of my sources talk about it as well, that there are certain sections where you can tell how one magical grimoire influenced another or what the slight differences between a couple of different ones might be. But given that I mainly just wanted to know what and who Abigor is, the history of demonology in Europe was a bit beyond my scope for this week. Did have a very funny moment where I look over at Tom and I'm like, hey, I'm gonna need your advice on how to pronounce some Latin. He's like, okay, sure. And then I was like, oh, wait, but it is post classical Latin. He was like, never mind, then.
I can't help you with that.
It is funny to me that they would name the Shitarn Shaitan, but then not really make it look like a demon.
What are you talking about? Biblically accurate. Demons have guns in their feet and are invisible. Is the Shaitan invisible?
No, Shaitan are.
Hmm.
Maybe only new types can see them. And most of what's horrible and evil about mobile suits, there's horrible and evil about them regardless of who's wielding them. So only naming Zanskar mobile suits for demons feels a bit duh.
But Zanskar named their own demons. That. That's on them.
Oh, true. Okay.
They wanted to. They wanted to be intimidating and imposing and, like, that's not inaccurate. Lots of modern militaries name units and weapons after, like, horrible monsters. Really scary things.
I've included a lot of links in the show notes, both to sources I consulted about the various terminology, which was extremely interesting. As somebody who doesn't know a ton about other religions that I didn't sort of grow up in. Really neat to hear about the etymology of these terms and differences between how different religions or different sects within the same religion conceive of Satan or the devil. How zoroastrianism played a big part in all of that. Actually, very interesting stuff in there. There's also links to translations of parts of some of those grimoires. There's somebody who hosts a bunch of these texts online, as well as some of the engravings that were included in the texts. So pictures of symbols and sigils and heres how you do this. Pentagram or whatever, instructions about the clothes you need to wear and the offerings you need to make and so forth.
The Shaitan dont just tempt humans into sin, right? They also tempt jinn into sin in some contexts, yes.
Will Jin Jahanam be tempted by the Shaitan?
That's what I'm suggesting to you. The possibilities, Nina. Imagine the possibilities. What could Jin Jahannam get up to with a shaytan?
Running away. Running away very fast. I don't suppose we'll ever know the answer, but I am curious why in the roman Alphabet they write it as Shaitarn? Because the katakana is Shai tan, which could cover up an r sound but can also not. And since we know it's an analogue.
For Shaitan, some english speaking viewers get real sensitive about things when you start including Satan in your show.
Fair? Fair point. Next time on episode 10.25, home again, home again. We research and discuss episode 25 of Victory Gundam and crash into me crow. Do what you must. No true Jin Jahanam, the delicious taste of fresh colony air, incorrigible chomp chomp chomp. Uso the bad influence. Act casual, paying the price and the cutest little robots, please listen to it.
Mobile suit Breakdown is written, recorded and produced by us, Tom and Nina, in.
Scenic New York City within the ancestral.
And unceded land of the lenape people and made possible by listeners like you. The opening track is Wasp by Mischa Dioxin. The closing music is long way home by spinning ratio. The recap music is slow by Lloyd Rogers. You can find links to the sources for our research, the music used in the episode, additional information about the lenape people, and more in the show notes on our website.
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Support thank you for listening. There are a lot of wrong Gundam opinions out there corrupting the fandom.
Wrong opinions like all of this focus on Maria and Shakti is missing. What's really significant about this episode? That Chronicle is the first confirmed uncle.
To appear in Gundam since Girenzabi, and.
The first ever to actually be shown interacting with his niece. He's making history and no one can.
Take that away from him.
I've given Tigris subcutaneous fluids once before and I was nervous and it took me two tries, but I got it and it was fine. And then today I went to do it. It's been a week and my hand wouldn't stop shaking. I just got the shakes real bad, which feels very silly because I already done this once before and it was fine. And yet.
I would not expect you to.
This is a horrifying thing to say. I may never forgive you.
See, now, instead of feeling bad, you can feel mad. This is my gift to you.
I don't feel mad. I'm too shocked to feel mad. We recorded this, but it's not like you can share it with anyone.
I'll just put a big bleep there and then they can guess what I said. What horrible thing did I unleash on you that can never be shared? Let us know what you think it was in the comments.
You seemed pretty proud of the joke at the time.
I would not describe myself as proud of that joke.
Okay.
Isn't he younger?
That's what I mean.
You're right. Yeah, you're right.
Yes, go ahead.
As a wise man once said, that's a high grade robot, alright, brief interruption to deal with a sick kitten. We were talking about animation.