WEBVTT 00:01.320 --> 00:04.142 If you're like me, you've learned that. 00:04.198 --> 00:08.754 Grit, tenacity, and persistence are the cornerstones of success. 00:09.294 --> 00:17.286 And they are. But what if I told you that there's an equally important, though often overlooked, strength? 00:17.430 --> 00:19.502 It's a skill that doesn't shout quite. 00:19.558 --> 00:35.628 As loudly as perseverance, but requires just as much courage, wisdom, and, yes, grit. Today, we'll explore how recognizing when to quit can lead us to a more. 00:35.716 --> 00:43.904 Fulfilling path, sometimes even accelerating our journey towards those very goals we're so passionately chasing. 00:44.884 --> 00:51.424 I'm Joe. My pal over there is Kurt, and we are dudes in progress. 01:00.444 --> 01:01.812 Hello, Kurt. 01:01.988 --> 01:03.028 Hey, Joe. 01:03.196 --> 01:04.380 What's going on, my friend? 01:04.452 --> 01:05.532 Why are you laughing? 01:05.708 --> 01:38.914 I'm laughing because you play music in the background that kind of get us going, right? You know, you hear the. We hear the opening music, and I can't hear the music on my side. We're using your system here to record, and I can't hear the music on my side. So to let me know. To let me know, uh, the music was over. There was this overly dramatic point, like, you're a music director or a producer working the board. Okay, Joe, it's your turn. 01:39.334 --> 01:45.694 You know, it's so funny is I've been doing this ten years now, podcasting. Coming up. I think Monday or Tuesday is my. 01:45.734 --> 01:52.438 Ten year anniversary, my podcast that I started. And I can't tell you how many. 01:52.486 --> 01:57.372 Problems I've been having lately. I am experimenting with different things, which is a good thing. 01:57.518 --> 02:05.804 But I have no idea why my rodecaster pro won't play my music off my computer to you and this platform. 02:06.544 --> 02:08.004 It is odd, isn't it? 02:08.824 --> 02:10.336 I don't even know where to start. 02:10.520 --> 02:14.360 But anyways, just anyone who's starting a podcast, just know. 02:14.432 --> 02:21.792 Even us experienced podcasters come across interesting dilemmas all the time. 02:21.928 --> 02:31.136 I see the frustrations you're going through, Kurt. I'm watching you kind of go through these new technical issues that you didn't experience before, and sometimes I think you're. 02:31.160 --> 02:32.244 Just going to quit. 02:35.104 --> 02:37.844 Sometimes you just got a fisher cut bait, dude. 02:40.904 --> 02:58.424 Quitting is an interesting subject, right? Grit, tenacity, and persistence. We always talk about those things as the cornerstones of success. The. The foundation to getting things done is, as our friend David Allen says, sometimes you got to know when it's time. 02:58.464 --> 03:01.080 To throw in the towel. 03:01.232 --> 03:02.840 And sometimes you have to know that it's. 03:02.952 --> 03:07.248 It's honorable to do that. In fact, many times, the most productive. 03:07.296 --> 03:15.736 Thing you can do, the most beneficial thing you can do for you, for your life, for your business is know when to quit. They don't say quit anymore. 03:15.800 --> 03:17.284 Do you know what word they use now? 03:18.664 --> 03:19.264 Pivot. 03:19.344 --> 03:20.568 Yeah, we're going to pivot. 03:20.616 --> 03:22.696 That's a better, yeah, because who wants to be a quitter? 03:22.760 --> 03:23.496 I don't want to be a quitter. 03:23.520 --> 03:24.084 Right? 03:24.784 --> 03:26.320 I don't like to quit at all. 03:26.472 --> 03:36.100 I'm pretty tenacious. We're just pivoting and that's good. I like the, I like the mindset shift, and we'll talk a little bit about the mindset shift and understanding the. 03:36.132 --> 03:38.796 Stigma a little bit behind quitting. 03:38.940 --> 03:45.316 And we'll, we'll just have an open conversation like we typically do. We have some notes here, but we'll see where that takes us. 03:45.340 --> 03:47.344 But I do have to ask you. 03:47.804 --> 03:50.620 Have you ever had a time in your life when quitting seemed like the. 03:50.652 --> 03:53.544 Best option or maybe the right thing for you to do? 03:54.704 --> 03:55.016 Yeah. 03:55.040 --> 03:58.904 And I think of career things, and maybe you and I have talked about this. 03:58.984 --> 04:08.776 There's a couple really key points in my career where I quit, and they're hard, especially when you're comfortable with something. 04:08.920 --> 04:11.684 I worked for a company for twelve and a half years out of college. 04:12.544 --> 04:16.056 Knew so many people, so many relationships. 04:16.080 --> 04:24.869 I met my wife through this company, lots of great friends. But the career part was not going in the direction that I wanted it to. 04:25.061 --> 04:32.605 And I was starting to get frustrated. But I had a couple of headhunters contact me at a time when the. 04:32.629 --> 04:36.873 Technology I was working with was getting pretty popular in the early two thousands. 04:37.693 --> 04:39.701 And at first I said, no, I'm. 04:39.717 --> 04:40.549 Going to keep going. 04:40.621 --> 04:43.709 I'm not going to quit where I'm at. I'm going to continue. 04:43.821 --> 04:45.149 Sometimes it's better to stay where you. 04:45.181 --> 04:48.292 Are and just improve the situation. 04:48.388 --> 04:52.148 I've always had that feeling too, because starting over can be difficult. 04:52.236 --> 04:58.604 It's scary. And it ended up being Joe, the best move, for sure. 04:58.644 --> 05:00.564 There's so many reasons why it was the best move. 05:00.604 --> 05:02.252 It was scary and it was a. 05:02.268 --> 05:05.132 Difficult thing for me to do. My kids were young, so first of. 05:05.148 --> 05:15.336 All, I got a 25% increase in my pay. And also I was there for a month and I always wanted to go. 05:15.360 --> 05:17.288 To a conference, a technical conference, and. 05:17.296 --> 05:24.136 There was one very famous called Lotus Fear down at Disney World. And they asked in a meeting if. 05:24.160 --> 05:29.164 There was anyone who would like to go because they had an extra ticket. First month I was there. 05:29.784 --> 05:30.552 Interesting. 05:30.648 --> 05:33.432 Which started my family trips down to. 05:33.448 --> 05:40.484 Disney World and the beginning of my podcast and all those. So many things that started out of that. I got a sign on bonus. 05:42.024 --> 05:43.624 Well, it was a stay on bonus. 05:43.664 --> 05:46.256 That's what it was. The technology. And things were so hot in the. 05:46.280 --> 05:51.640 Early two thousands when they had that year 2000 problem. I got a bonus, like, in the. 05:51.672 --> 05:55.724 Spring of that year. I never got any bonuses when I was at the other company. 05:56.344 --> 05:58.232 And to add all that together and. 05:58.248 --> 06:02.136 The thing I was doing exactly what I wanted to do. The team I worked with was the. 06:02.160 --> 06:03.484 Best team I ever worked with. 06:03.624 --> 06:12.544 The first three years there was just amazing. It was, like I said, the best group of people. Great manager, my favorite manager of all time. 06:13.404 --> 06:21.196 And to add all that to six months after I left my company, the team I was working with was asked. 06:21.260 --> 06:26.908 To join the hire the company that owned us and go move to Charlotte, North Carolina. 06:26.996 --> 06:31.220 I never would have moved when the kids. I mean, how many I could just. 06:31.252 --> 06:33.356 Go on, you know, on and on. What a great move it was. 06:33.380 --> 06:35.484 And it was a tough, tough move. 06:35.524 --> 06:39.684 And you know what made the change for me, which was interesting. I was so scared to do this. 06:39.724 --> 06:41.324 Change because of the technology. 06:41.404 --> 06:42.628 I would have been sort of alone. 06:42.676 --> 06:46.548 I felt, too, but. And I would have been a lead. 06:46.596 --> 06:47.824 Person in the technology. 06:48.684 --> 06:49.932 I said to my wife, I don't. 06:49.948 --> 06:50.492 Know what to do. 06:50.548 --> 06:51.028 They. 06:51.156 --> 06:53.984 This is the offer. She goes, ask them for 10,000 more. 06:54.364 --> 06:55.640 I went, you know what? 06:55.672 --> 06:58.176 That's what I'm going to do. And you know what? 06:58.280 --> 06:58.704 They said? 06:58.744 --> 06:59.416 Yes. 06:59.600 --> 07:00.444 Awesome. 07:01.264 --> 07:03.912 So now, okay, I guess I'm. 07:03.968 --> 07:05.164 I guess I'm leaving. 07:06.424 --> 07:07.364 I quit. 07:08.584 --> 07:10.304 I know I've not talked about this. 07:10.384 --> 07:13.040 On this show, uh, but I'm pretty. 07:13.072 --> 07:15.416 Sure you and I have talked about it in the past, Kurt. 07:15.520 --> 07:23.876 Uh, in my twenties, I owned a bar, like, you know, a bar and grill where you go and get drinks and eat. Right, right. 07:24.060 --> 07:25.396 Have we talked about that before? 07:25.500 --> 07:26.092 Yes. 07:26.228 --> 07:27.188 I know this. 07:27.356 --> 07:29.076 Okay, so a lot of detail, but. 07:29.100 --> 07:30.892 I remember us well. 07:30.908 --> 07:35.660 I won't go into all the gory details here, but. But the idea was I provided the. 07:35.692 --> 07:38.484 Funding, and a friend of mine, a. 07:38.484 --> 07:40.716 Very good friend at the time, he. 07:40.740 --> 07:44.300 Was to provide sweat equity, and his. 07:44.332 --> 07:52.666 Job was to manage the bar and take care of things, and and I would oversee, you know, some of the numbers and the processes that we're using. 07:52.850 --> 07:56.522 And some of the marketing, but we. 07:56.538 --> 08:06.494 Would be equal partners. I feel like we had a pretty solid plan. A solid, as solid of a plan is somebody in their early twenties can come up with. Right, for a bar. 08:06.794 --> 08:14.014 My gosh, from day one, I realized, man, I don't belong in this business. 08:14.474 --> 08:15.050 Really. 08:15.162 --> 08:27.384 Everything from employees stealing you blind to dealing with a liquor license. And he wasn't coming through on his end of the deal. We had to deal with entertainment and. 08:27.424 --> 08:30.784 Bands and all that stuff, right? 08:30.824 --> 08:32.104 We had all this stuff that. 08:32.224 --> 08:34.004 A lot of moving parts. 08:34.384 --> 08:38.272 And we provided breakfast because of a contract that we had with a local. 08:38.328 --> 08:41.564 Hotel for breakfast for their. 08:42.664 --> 08:49.408 And I bought. I bought into that. I knew that. I knew from. From the previous owner. I knew that that was a part of the package, but we had to. 08:49.496 --> 08:53.384 Provide that and set up food contracts and. 08:53.504 --> 08:55.924 And delivery and all this other stuff. 08:57.224 --> 08:59.384 The money, just the. 08:59.504 --> 09:00.880 Even though we had a really good. 09:00.912 --> 09:07.664 Clientele and we were busy, the margins were terrible, just terrible. 09:07.824 --> 09:09.432 We just weren't making any money. 09:09.568 --> 09:11.040 And then I put a little more. 09:11.072 --> 09:13.584 Money into it, and I'd put a little more money into it. 09:13.744 --> 09:17.818 And I realized after six months that. 09:17.906 --> 09:25.578 Despite this dream of owning this bar and grill and building this. This brand and having a nice little. 09:25.626 --> 09:34.534 Neighborhood pub and maybe a two or three as we grew, it's not for me. And it was a real ego boost. 09:35.194 --> 09:36.642 When I bought the bar. 09:36.818 --> 09:42.932 And it was a real ego hit when I realized, I can't do this. 09:43.058 --> 09:43.800 Wow. 09:43.992 --> 09:47.256 And I've never lost so much money in such a short period of time. 09:47.280 --> 09:49.856 In my life, even to now. 09:49.960 --> 09:52.296 Is it because you thought going to. 09:52.320 --> 09:55.616 A bar and enjoying yourself was the same as owning the bar? 09:55.800 --> 10:11.792 That's funny that you say that, because that was a part of it. I had such a. Such a happy emotional connection to this bar because it was a bar that I went to and it was a bar that I frequented at the time. There was such a happy connection. I thought, how could this possibly fail? 10:11.928 --> 10:14.684 Look how happy people are here, you know? 10:15.184 --> 10:17.400 But there's so. There was so much more to it. 10:17.472 --> 10:18.760 And I had to. 10:18.952 --> 10:23.704 Quite honestly, there were some humbling thoughts that I had to or some humbling realizations. 10:23.744 --> 10:26.056 Number one, I didn't have enough. 10:26.120 --> 10:26.964 I wasn't. 10:27.744 --> 10:34.484 I don't want to say I wasn't smart enough at the time, but I just didn't have what it took to. 10:35.064 --> 10:40.320 To run this bar. There was too much going on in my life. And I'll just say this. 10:40.352 --> 10:43.040 I. I didn't have the wisdom and. 10:43.072 --> 10:54.364 Experience that I needed to have. And I realized that. I said, man, I'm just not smart enough to do this. I don't have the wisdom and experience to do that. Isn't it funny that I had the wisdom to know that I didn't have the wisdom? 10:55.224 --> 10:59.840 That's true. And I'm guessing you never worked at a restaurant or bar before either, I. 10:59.872 --> 11:08.886 Bet I worked at a restaurant, but not at this level. I worked. I was a server at a restaurant. I knew how to take care of people. I knew hospitality. 11:09.000 --> 11:09.418 Right. 11:09.506 --> 11:12.314 Cause I'd worked as a teenager both. 11:12.474 --> 11:17.514 As a server in a restaurant and a hotel, so I knew about hospitality. 11:17.674 --> 11:19.426 It was just a big disaster. 11:19.530 --> 11:22.682 A huge disaster. And I remember saying, I'm done. 11:22.778 --> 11:23.690 I remember that moment. 11:23.722 --> 11:27.346 I was sitting in my little apartment on the east side of Cincinnati, and. 11:27.370 --> 11:29.466 I thought, this is over. 11:29.570 --> 11:30.934 I'm in over my head. 11:31.354 --> 11:32.674 Way in over my head. 11:32.754 --> 11:33.374 Right. 11:33.914 --> 11:35.154 I quit the dream. 11:35.274 --> 11:45.334 I quit the process. I didn't necessarily have to quit the. The friendship that I had with the. This, because he was part of the problem, quite honestly. 11:45.834 --> 11:47.654 You didn't have to have that conversation. 11:47.994 --> 11:50.514 He fell in love with being a bar owner. 11:50.674 --> 11:51.970 Right. Yeah. The. 11:52.042 --> 11:55.538 The title of bar owner, not actually doing the work. 11:55.706 --> 11:56.154 Right. 11:56.234 --> 11:56.666 Right. 11:56.770 --> 12:01.746 So he loved, you know, hey, drinks are on me and that kind of thing, you know? 12:01.850 --> 12:02.042 Yeah. 12:02.058 --> 12:05.874 And you didn't have the bar rescue guy from tv to say, sure, needed that. 12:05.994 --> 12:08.802 And did you sell it all right. 12:08.938 --> 12:09.970 I wanted to take you to get. 12:10.002 --> 12:11.090 You did. Okay. 12:11.242 --> 12:15.922 But it was a definite quit. It was a hard quit. It wasn't even a phase out. 12:16.018 --> 12:18.282 I shut the doors that day. 12:18.418 --> 12:20.010 Yeah. That's good. Yeah. 12:20.122 --> 12:23.694 I think entrepreneurship is definitely one of those things. 12:24.034 --> 12:28.978 You don't know what you're getting yourself into all the way until you're doing it. 12:29.066 --> 12:41.600 There's a stigma around quitting. The traditional narratives often paint quitting as. As failure or lack of perseverance or lack of grit. But if. If there's strategic thought behind it and you. 12:41.712 --> 12:43.952 And you quit strategically, it can be. 12:43.968 --> 12:52.720 A real positive step towards aligning more closely with your values and goals and your. In fact, your own personal well being. 12:52.792 --> 12:53.216 Yeah. 12:53.320 --> 12:57.088 And unless you quit sometimes you can't discover those things. 12:57.136 --> 13:00.632 You can't discover what's really important to. 13:00.648 --> 13:17.936 You and what your. What your true values are in life and what you want for your own personal well being because you're caught up in this mess. Right? You're caught up in this. In this situation that you don't want to be and you don't know how to get out of because your ego's in the way. You're worried about your reputation. 13:18.080 --> 13:22.444 You're worried about even maybe income or. 13:22.744 --> 13:27.616 A complete change in the way you do life, you're worried about all those things. 13:27.800 --> 13:35.526 But sometimes quitting, if you're. If you're able to set aside all of that ego and all of that worry. 13:35.670 --> 13:45.742 Quitting can be that huge step towards, like I said, aligning yourself closely with your own values and whatever goals you might have and even taking care of yourself better. 13:45.918 --> 13:49.790 But I don't want to deny the benefits and honor of, of those, of. 13:49.822 --> 13:56.550 Those things like grit and tenacity and persistence and perseverance, because those are all very important. Yeah, we have, we have to give. 13:56.582 --> 13:59.950 Them their appropriate position in their appropriate. 14:00.022 --> 14:02.246 Place, but we have to think about. 14:02.310 --> 14:03.834 When is it time to quit. 14:04.174 --> 14:05.342 It's a fine line. 14:05.438 --> 14:07.878 It can be. I mean, some things are easier than others. 14:07.926 --> 14:18.074 Some you, you really decide really quickly. I was thinking your, your, whatever success means to you is always a jagged edge. 14:18.494 --> 14:25.510 I mean, you go in one direction and you may, in your case, maybe it took a little longer to figure out that was the wrong direction. 14:25.662 --> 14:29.926 I can remember I was interviewing for. 14:30.030 --> 14:34.606 Sales jobs because my degree was in marketing. And when your degree is in marketing. 14:34.670 --> 14:37.030 From college, one of the first things. 14:37.062 --> 14:38.662 You'Re going to probably learn is you. 14:38.678 --> 14:47.510 May be applying for sales jobs. And I can remember going through very far into an interview process, getting down. 14:47.542 --> 14:50.342 To very close to the edge. They did a lot of personality tests. 14:50.358 --> 14:54.274 And they finally said they didn't think I was sales material. 14:54.774 --> 14:55.478 And I agreed. 14:55.526 --> 14:57.198 I even did, even later on, I. 14:57.206 --> 15:01.514 Can remember when home delivery of food. 15:02.374 --> 15:08.094 Was coming out, frozen foods, I think it was at the time. I went on sales calls into people's. 15:08.134 --> 15:13.114 Homes and I think I did that maybe one day. 15:14.854 --> 15:18.818 This is not for me. I am not cut out. 15:18.946 --> 15:23.334 It was a horrible in home meeting. And I went, yeah, forget this. 15:23.714 --> 15:24.530 Right? 15:24.722 --> 15:28.522 I even did insurance sales. I know you did some of that. 15:28.658 --> 15:33.090 I went into one of those sales programs, or at least I interviewed for it. 15:33.242 --> 15:37.170 And again, it was a hard no. Pretty quick. 15:37.322 --> 15:38.054 Yeah. 15:38.874 --> 15:44.790 When I think back, I have quit a lot. I've tried of a lot and I've quit a lot. 15:44.942 --> 15:45.470 Right. 15:45.582 --> 15:48.502 If, if you're not doing the same thing that you did when you're in. 15:48.518 --> 15:50.886 Your twenties, then you've quit something. Right? 15:51.030 --> 15:51.874 For sure. 15:52.574 --> 15:58.550 Either you quit or you were forced to quit, whatever it might be. But I've quit a lot because I've. 15:58.582 --> 16:00.998 Tried a lot of things. I mean, when I think about my. 16:01.166 --> 16:07.670 Entrepreneurial experience, there was the, I was a bar owner. 16:07.862 --> 16:14.462 I owned an insurance agency. I owned a group of coupon magazines and display ad magazines that mailed on the east side of Cincinnati. 16:14.478 --> 16:19.622 Cincinnati, man, I've done, I swung the. 16:19.638 --> 16:20.734 Bat out a lot of things. 16:20.814 --> 16:21.438 Right. 16:21.606 --> 16:24.926 And so I've had to quit a lot of things, too. But that gave me. 16:25.030 --> 16:35.070 But quitting gave me the experience and the knowledge and the. The personal. The personal reflection that I needed to. 16:35.102 --> 16:36.798 Put me off into another direction. 16:36.926 --> 16:37.470 Yeah. 16:37.582 --> 16:39.446 And without taking a step back and. 16:39.470 --> 16:41.930 Saying, should I be doing this and. 16:41.962 --> 16:45.330 Be willing to take the risk. Interesting, the way of putting it right. 16:45.362 --> 16:49.250 Take the risk of quitting, because we. 16:49.282 --> 16:54.754 Always look at it in the inverse. Right. We always think that it's risky to take a. To go do something different. 16:54.914 --> 16:58.410 It's also a risk to quit because of the. 16:58.522 --> 17:09.354 The unknown, what's a lot, what's on that other side. But there are certainly. There are certainly some signs that we have knowing when it's time to quit. When is it time to quit? 17:10.294 --> 17:11.838 I have four things here that I. 17:11.886 --> 17:12.518 That I talk. 17:12.566 --> 17:12.798 That. 17:12.846 --> 17:16.198 That I'd like to talk about when it's time to quit. Misalignment with. 17:16.286 --> 17:21.782 With core values diminishing returns, opportunity cost. 17:21.958 --> 17:25.494 An impact on well being. And when I think about every time. 17:25.534 --> 17:28.774 That I've quit all four of these. 17:28.814 --> 17:31.798 I checked all four of these boxes. Didn't even know I was checking these. 17:31.846 --> 17:35.240 Boxes, but I was checking all four of these boxes. 17:35.392 --> 17:38.644 So let's talk about misalignment with core values. 17:38.984 --> 17:41.280 Cardiff, if a pursuit that you're on. 17:41.312 --> 17:46.216 If something that you're looking towards is fundamentally at odds with your core values. 17:46.240 --> 17:48.880 And principles, it's time to reconsider. 17:48.992 --> 17:49.216 Yeah. 17:49.240 --> 17:52.448 And I would say if you're being. 17:52.496 --> 17:58.400 Trained as a salesperson, they're asking you to be less than truthful. I might have a problem. 17:58.512 --> 17:59.584 I'm a salesperson. 17:59.704 --> 18:00.484 I know. 18:01.024 --> 18:03.884 You can be a salesperson and still be honest. 18:04.304 --> 18:05.256 I am one. 18:05.360 --> 18:06.364 There you go. 18:07.064 --> 18:08.496 But you could be interviewing for a. 18:08.520 --> 18:16.204 Position where you notice the culture is not truthful, or. 18:18.384 --> 18:20.120 They lie and cheat to get ahead. 18:20.272 --> 18:21.808 I would have a problem with that. 18:21.976 --> 18:30.488 Yeah, I do, too. But I want to be careful to. To say that it doesn't necessarily have. 18:30.496 --> 18:32.032 To be something immoral. 18:32.208 --> 18:32.984 Somebody have. 18:33.064 --> 18:56.556 Can have different core values and principles, and both are highly moral core values and principles. It's just not yours. You know, you're. You may. You may have. Have some principles about interacting with people at a certain. Certain level of intimacy, or you may have a principle, a core value of entering somebody's space. 18:56.740 --> 18:57.396 Right. 18:57.540 --> 18:59.628 And so when you're trying to sell. 18:59.676 --> 19:03.244 Meat off the back of a truck and you have to go into their. 19:03.284 --> 19:06.308 House and you're in their space and. 19:06.396 --> 19:21.460 They'Re in your space, and there's a certain level of intimacy that you're not comfortable with. That's not necessarily bad one way or the other, but it's against your core values and principles. It made you uncomfortable. It's at odds with who you are. 19:21.572 --> 19:21.892 Yeah. 19:21.948 --> 19:24.644 And sometimes we don't know that. You know, some. 19:24.764 --> 19:27.948 Some things we go into, and it's clearly illegal. 19:27.996 --> 19:33.852 Right. You know, if somebody comes to you with a drug running opportunity, that's clearly illegal. Right. 19:34.028 --> 19:36.584 Can you drive this truck? What's in it? 19:37.284 --> 19:37.740 Right. 19:37.812 --> 19:43.876 And when you start to feel that core voice, that. That. That still voice inside of you that. 19:43.900 --> 19:47.584 Is telling you, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this. 19:47.914 --> 19:48.610 Right. 19:48.762 --> 19:50.242 You should probably listen to that. 19:50.338 --> 20:02.290 There's also benefit to grit and tenacity and person and perseverance and. And reflecting on that and saying, is this something I really. Is this a lesson I need to learn? Is this a skill that I need to have? 20:02.482 --> 20:05.618 If it is, push through? Right. 20:05.746 --> 20:12.962 Be tenacious. But if it's going against your core values and principles and you start to recognize that as time goes and you're. 20:13.018 --> 20:16.268 Just uncomfortable with it, that's. 20:16.316 --> 20:17.504 That's a red flag. 20:17.804 --> 20:18.116 Yeah. 20:18.140 --> 20:21.956 I think one of the ones for me is, am I enjoying doing this. 20:22.060 --> 20:23.540 Thing that I'm going to be doing. 20:23.732 --> 20:25.436 Especially when it comes to career wise? 20:25.500 --> 20:26.516 And a little. 20:26.540 --> 20:33.212 Another little example that I was tenacious at, and I didn't quit right away, which is a good thing, was when. 20:33.228 --> 20:35.772 I was learning the Microsoft sharepoint technology. 20:35.868 --> 20:39.028 I went to this training, but it. 20:39.036 --> 20:42.620 Was more advanced than I was ready for. I mean, I was coming in from. 20:42.732 --> 20:45.596 Pretty much square one, and I looked at this training. 20:45.660 --> 20:47.444 It was paid for by my company. 20:47.524 --> 20:54.500 I spent two days, at least, in this training, and I was really not. 20:54.532 --> 20:56.180 Feeling comfortable with it right away. 20:56.292 --> 21:01.084 But fortunately, I continued, and I found. 21:01.124 --> 21:03.944 A path in that technology that was right for me. 21:04.364 --> 21:14.662 It's really a broad technology, too. And so I was able to find a place that I felt really comfortable in, but I. 21:14.758 --> 21:16.790 Because I was tenacious about it and stuck with it. 21:16.822 --> 21:20.794 I didn't quit after that one bad example or experience. 21:21.814 --> 21:43.316 And I think, you know, when something is misaligned with your core values, I think you know that. I think, you know, deep down. And I also think, you know, pretty quickly, uh, in. In the experience, like, again, your meat selling experience, that probably went against something that you were very uncomfortable with and was part of your core values, and you may not even be able to. 21:43.340 --> 21:47.436 Identify those core values immediately, but when. 21:47.460 --> 21:49.196 You reflect on it, you could probably. 21:49.260 --> 21:51.548 Say, yeah, that went against my. 21:51.596 --> 21:54.604 That went against my core values rejection. 21:54.684 --> 22:02.148 I don't like rejection. Joe, you know that sales can. You gotta be comfortable with being rejected a lot, I think. 22:02.236 --> 22:06.708 Yeah, there's a mindset to it. There's a mindset to understanding what rejection. 22:06.756 --> 22:10.244 Is and what you're, what's being rejected. 22:10.284 --> 22:14.700 That you're not personally being rejected unless you're, of course, trying to, you know. 22:14.772 --> 22:17.452 Sell yourself, you know, and that's probably. 22:17.508 --> 22:32.204 Illegal, but you're not personally being rejected. You know, there's a, there's timing and there's situations and there's mindset on the other person. So that rejection thing is kind of overblown. 22:32.284 --> 22:33.524 I'm not willing to learn. 22:33.684 --> 22:39.964 In sales. People think they're being personally rejected, and they're hardly ever, ever being personally. 22:40.084 --> 22:41.108 Yeah, I get that. 22:41.276 --> 22:42.436 Yeah. Yeah. 22:42.500 --> 22:44.864 There's also the idea of diminishing returns. 22:45.284 --> 22:48.464 That's when you realize that your efforts. 22:48.764 --> 22:59.692 Are no longer moving closer to who you want to be on the, on the broad scale of life. You find yourself in this job or in this career or in this relationship, because there's lots of things that we. 22:59.708 --> 23:01.836 Can quit, and this is very similar. 23:01.900 --> 23:06.508 This dovetails very well into our discussion about saying no. When I think about saying no, I. 23:06.516 --> 23:09.596 Think about saying no in instances and. 23:09.700 --> 23:43.132 Opportunities and things like that. Something that is being brought to you. Right, right. When you quit, it's something that you're already engaged in and involved in and that you have to say, I'm done with this. But when you're in this situation and you're facing diminishing returns, meaning your efforts no longer move you closer to what your goals are, and you're no longer seeing any real benefit to your life. A lot of times, that's income, income wise, I mean, I've met a lot of salespeople who are just not good salespeople if they don't have it in. 23:43.148 --> 23:45.772 Them, but they have this idea about. 23:45.828 --> 24:35.174 Being persistent in tenacious, this kind of lie that we've been sold, that persistence and tenacity are the, are the end all be all, right, great. The end all be all. And you got, if you don't have that, you've got nothing. And that's a lie that we've, we've bought into. As important as those things are, tenacity and personal perseverance and persistence, it's a lie that we've bought into that. It's the end all, be all. And you see this a lot in sales. I'm glad you brought up sales, because somebody can be just not a very good salesperson. It's just, there's something, there's an it factor that they're missing. There's something there that's, that's their miss that they're missing. But they continue to do it. They continue to do it. And I'm like, and a lot of, a lot of sales are commissioned sales, which means if you don't sell, you don't make money. 24:35.304 --> 24:35.974 Right. 24:36.554 --> 24:39.414 I've seen people nearly starve. 24:41.234 --> 24:41.730 And it's. 24:41.762 --> 24:48.586 Not bringing you closer to what you want in life. And you have to recognize that and you have to have that conversation with. 24:48.610 --> 24:57.746 Yourself to say, I wanted this to work out so badly, it's. But it's just not. It's time to quit this. 24:57.810 --> 25:08.514 I'm just not getting the returns that I need from this. And that can be a wide and varied. Right. It can be income, it can be relationship, it can be whatever it might be. 25:08.634 --> 25:08.914 Yeah. 25:08.954 --> 25:24.338 My example of that, as you're explaining this, reminds me of my first trial in my twenties into the entrepreneurial space, which was Amway. I probably never took, we never had a conversation. 25:24.426 --> 25:26.454 Of course I got involved with Amway. 25:26.754 --> 25:27.706 Yeah. Early on. 25:27.730 --> 25:30.002 My uncle, my uncle was the one. 25:30.058 --> 25:31.482 Who brought it to me, and he. 25:31.498 --> 25:35.194 Had a good friend that they were aligned with. 25:35.494 --> 25:37.822 And I really enjoyed the people, I. 25:37.838 --> 25:54.430 Enjoyed all the meetings and the entrepreneurial spirit of it all. And I did believe in the platform at the time. But in trying, I mean, trying again, the rejection piece and also reaching out. 25:54.462 --> 25:56.914 To friends was uncomfortable. 25:57.334 --> 26:00.402 But also, I think what really, when. 26:00.418 --> 26:02.290 You talk about the diminishing return, I. 26:02.322 --> 26:05.354 Lost faith that other people would ever. 26:05.394 --> 26:06.574 Say yes to this. 26:06.874 --> 26:18.334 Like, it just inherently turned people off for a lot of, there was a lot of reasons why, but I didn't think I could get over that no matter what I did. 26:20.234 --> 26:22.574 Yeah, I have a couple friends. 26:23.234 --> 26:34.752 One of them, I'll just name him right here. His name is Rick Haggar, who is extremely successful in multilevel marketing or network marketing. Now, he's been with probably a dozen different companies. Right. 26:34.808 --> 26:35.104 Okay. 26:35.144 --> 26:56.656 He's kind of done it over and over and over again, but extremely successful in multi level marketing. And I know a couple other people, but Rick is a great guy. I've known him for a long time and we connect every once in a while. But I agree with you on the whole idea of multi level marketing. There are diminishing returns, and that's a perfect example of when it's time to quit. 26:56.760 --> 26:57.404 Right. 26:57.984 --> 27:27.654 Man, I keep buying this. I keep buying this product or I keep making my list of friends and, and I'm just not getting any kind of traction. I'm putting 12 hours a day into this. I'm, I'm having weekend and evening parties or whatever it might be. I mean, list, list the types of companies. I mean, there's Mary Kay and Avon and Amway and all the, all the nutritional type of companies that all kind of have the same basic platform. 27:28.474 --> 27:32.414 And I've seen people go absolutely broke. 27:32.954 --> 27:36.130 I've seen people honestly nearly lose their. 27:36.282 --> 27:42.098 Relationships, their marriage because of not realizing. 27:42.146 --> 27:49.050 That they're, that they, that their returns are diminished and they're not, they don't recognize that it's time to quit. 27:49.242 --> 27:51.442 Wow. Yeah. Yeah. 27:51.538 --> 27:52.814 That's a good example. 27:53.424 --> 28:03.256 But I don't want to. I don't want to, I don't want to necessarily degrade multi level marketing or network marketing because it has worked very well for some people, but sometimes the. 28:03.280 --> 28:07.120 Math for the people on the lower levels just doesn't work. 28:07.312 --> 28:09.144 Yeah. Yeah. 28:09.304 --> 28:13.112 So there's diminishing returns, and then we have to think about opportunity cost. 28:13.168 --> 28:19.546 If we, if we're still, if we're, if we're engaged in something that have. 28:19.650 --> 28:27.794 Diminishing returns and doesn't meet our core values and it's not moving us forward in life, what else could we be. 28:27.834 --> 28:33.082 Doing that would move us closer to. 28:33.098 --> 28:36.594 The values that we want or the things that we want or the life that we want? 28:36.714 --> 28:38.850 What are we missing out on now? 28:38.882 --> 28:43.522 I don't believe in using the fear of missing out on everything. Fomo. Right. For everything. 28:43.618 --> 28:47.106 But there are those opportunity costs that we're missing. 28:47.250 --> 29:01.674 So if we're engaged in some activity, and we could. We've talked a lot about business here, but this can apply to many things. Like I said, it can, it can reply to relationships, it can apply to hobbies you're engaged in. 29:01.754 --> 29:07.334 It could apply to an investment you're making. There comes a time to quit. 29:07.634 --> 29:14.054 Part of the signs when it's time to quit is the opportunity cost. What activities are you missing out on. 29:15.094 --> 29:20.354 By participating in this thing that's not giving you what you need? 29:20.734 --> 29:22.238 Yeah, that's a great one, because you. 29:22.246 --> 29:36.430 Could be doing something that aligns better that you enjoy more. That's definitely, it's the reason why you want to quit, because whatever you focus on takes up a lot of your time and you want to get the. 29:36.462 --> 29:41.958 Most productivity out of your time. You want to be doing what you enjoy the most. 29:42.086 --> 29:44.110 I think that's been a value I've. 29:44.142 --> 29:45.606 Had my whole life. 29:45.750 --> 29:48.822 I've felt that way. And I've preached it to my kids. 29:48.878 --> 29:52.182 Do something you enjoy doing or don't do it. 29:52.358 --> 29:53.030 Right. 29:53.182 --> 29:57.518 There is that. There is that saying, if you love what you're doing, you'll never work a. 29:57.526 --> 29:58.582 Day in your life. 29:58.758 --> 29:59.670 I love that. 29:59.782 --> 30:01.182 I love that philosophy. 30:01.358 --> 30:03.126 I don't know who said it, but. 30:03.150 --> 30:04.310 I love them for saying it. 30:04.382 --> 30:06.630 Yeah. Sounds like a Henry Ford thing. 30:06.782 --> 30:07.514 Yeah. 30:08.094 --> 30:14.190 But you do have to think about the opportunity cost. What are you. By banging your head against the wall on this thing? 30:14.342 --> 30:15.054 That's. 30:15.174 --> 30:19.318 That is misaligned with your values, and you have diminishing returns. 30:19.446 --> 30:21.198 What are you missing out on by. 30:21.366 --> 30:42.050 Continuing to participate in this thing? And how much time value are you losing? What is the opportunity cost? Time and energy. Those things that you're missing out on will outweigh the potential benefits of this thing that you continue to participate in. Sometimes by looking at the opportunity cost. 30:42.122 --> 30:44.294 You know, its time to quit. 30:46.554 --> 30:48.594 I love looking back on this, Joe. 30:48.754 --> 30:50.946 And use my original example of the. 30:50.970 --> 30:54.962 Career change I made. The reason I left was I was. 30:54.978 --> 30:56.914 Doing 50% of my time as project. 30:56.994 --> 30:59.626 Management and 50% of my time of. 30:59.730 --> 31:08.174 Application development, and I wanted to move in that application development space. And I hated all the project management. 31:08.334 --> 31:12.478 Administrative work is what it was to me. It was non productive. 31:12.566 --> 31:13.434 It just. 31:14.214 --> 31:15.974 I was frustrated with it. 31:16.134 --> 31:17.934 Boy, I remember looking back a few. 31:17.974 --> 31:20.630 Months after doing the change and going. 31:20.822 --> 31:23.354 I am so glad I made this change. 31:24.214 --> 31:30.550 I was so grateful I was doing what I wanted to do with a great team. Even though it was kind of risky. 31:30.582 --> 31:31.620 I was scared to do it. 31:31.702 --> 31:36.312 But I end up making some really good pals and great working relationships that. 31:36.368 --> 31:37.924 I've enjoyed to this day. 31:39.624 --> 31:41.856 The next thing, and probably the most. 31:41.920 --> 31:53.004 Important thing to look at the signs when it's time to quit is your. The impact on your well being. If whatever you're doing, whatever you're pursuing. 31:53.304 --> 31:56.444 Is harming you physically, emotionally, or mentally. 31:57.964 --> 32:10.704 You got to consider quitting, because it's not only hurting you emotionally and mentally, especially, it's hurting those around you. For sure, it's hurting those closest to you. 32:11.204 --> 32:12.900 But even if it's not, if it's. 32:12.932 --> 32:17.344 Hurting you, it's time to consider quitting. 32:17.964 --> 32:18.700 Yeah, I think. 32:18.772 --> 32:21.764 And my gosh, if all four. If you've checked all four of these. 32:21.804 --> 32:24.614 Box boxes, get out. 32:25.314 --> 32:26.586 Get out as soon as possible. 32:26.650 --> 32:29.586 If it's misaligned with your core values and you. 32:29.610 --> 32:29.818 You. 32:29.866 --> 32:36.794 You're experiencing diminishing returns, and you realize that you could be doing something different and get a better return on your. 32:36.914 --> 32:40.314 On your time or energy and your. 32:40.434 --> 32:46.218 Physical, emotional and mental health is being impacted. I don't know what to tell you. 32:46.226 --> 32:47.694 If you don't know, it's time to quit. 32:48.234 --> 32:55.064 Or we could use the Monty Python quote, run away. Run away. 32:55.644 --> 32:57.464 Yes, yes. 32:57.924 --> 32:59.396 But it's difficult. 32:59.460 --> 33:06.944 Quitting is difficult, Kurt, for sure. It is for me, because I pride myself, and I think you do, too. 33:07.324 --> 33:09.292 In a certain level of tenacity. 33:09.388 --> 33:10.184 For sure. 33:10.524 --> 33:12.464 Certain level of stick to it ness. 33:12.844 --> 33:19.964 Yeah, I pride myself in that. So when it's time to quit, boy, that's a bruise to my ego. 33:20.624 --> 33:40.328 But if you take a step back and you look at these four things and you're checking off these boxes, and if it's misaligned with your core values and you're experiencing diminishing returns, and you can see that there's other opportunities out there that you're losing out on, and it's impacting your health and your physical. 33:40.376 --> 33:44.168 Emotional well being, it's time to quit. 33:44.336 --> 33:45.764 I like having those. 33:46.904 --> 33:51.920 You gave me a couple of things. I like the word pivot to it emotionally. 33:51.952 --> 33:53.804 Helps me to make that change. 33:54.224 --> 34:03.112 But I like having these checkboxes to decide and feel good about it because. 34:03.128 --> 34:03.824 I'm not a quitter. 34:03.864 --> 34:04.272 Quit. 34:04.368 --> 34:05.000 I'm not a quitter. 34:05.032 --> 34:06.744 Not a quitter. I'm a. I can pivot, right? 34:06.784 --> 34:08.102 Yeah, that's right. 34:08.288 --> 34:12.494 We're going to talk here in a second, very quickly, about how to quit strategically. 34:12.874 --> 34:19.722 And using the word pivot is important. And I don't know of a better word than pivot. 34:19.858 --> 34:25.530 So let's talk a little bit about how to quit strategically. First of all, you got to reflect on your. 34:25.562 --> 34:26.138 Why? 34:26.306 --> 34:38.864 Why are you doing this? Understand your motivations for quitting and understand these four. These four criteria for quitting or these checkboxes or these signs, and make sure. 34:38.904 --> 34:41.896 That you are quitting for the right reasons. 34:42.080 --> 34:43.320 Reflect on your why? 34:43.392 --> 34:44.840 Why are you quitting? 34:44.992 --> 34:47.520 Understand why you're quitting and be able. 34:47.552 --> 34:50.584 To articulate it be able to articulate. 34:50.624 --> 34:57.904 It to those around you, those closest to you, the people who you lean on for wisdom, the people who rely. 34:57.944 --> 34:59.408 On you for support. 34:59.496 --> 35:01.856 Because if there are people relying on. 35:01.880 --> 35:06.314 You and you're quitting a job, especially. 35:07.174 --> 35:08.766 You really have to give some thought. 35:08.830 --> 35:11.140 Behind that for you. 35:11.142 --> 35:13.806 You have to give some thought behind that. If you have a family and you're. 35:13.830 --> 35:15.790 Quitting a job, there may be time. 35:15.822 --> 35:35.284 To quit a job, even though you're. You're going into the great unknown because of. Because of those things that we talked about. But you really have to reflect on your why, because what you're doing is you're building your. You're building your foundation, you're building your argument, you're building your. Your table that will support the reasons that you're quitting. 35:35.324 --> 35:38.012 So reflect on your why and change. 35:38.068 --> 35:45.596 Your mindset about quitting. This is where the word pivot comes into. Quitting is not necessarily an end, but. 35:45.620 --> 35:52.172 It'S indeed a pivot to new opportunities, new opportunities for learning and development and. 35:52.228 --> 35:53.664 Moving your life forward. 35:54.444 --> 35:57.676 I would view quitting as a proactive. 35:57.740 --> 36:08.896 Activity, kind of an adaptation to the ever changing landscape of life, Kurt. And to move yourself forward. But you got to switch that mindset from. 36:09.040 --> 36:10.752 From, oh, I'm not being. 36:10.848 --> 36:14.016 I'm not being tenacious enough. I'm not. I don't have enough grit. 36:14.160 --> 36:14.712 You have. 36:14.768 --> 36:17.056 You have all of those things, but. 36:17.080 --> 36:18.568 All you're doing is you're taking those. 36:18.616 --> 36:22.364 Things and you're pivoting them to another opportunity. 36:22.904 --> 36:28.412 Yeah. I think having a close friend like you, the relationship you and I have, we've. 36:28.568 --> 36:30.868 I had these conversations on Saturdays. 36:31.036 --> 36:42.724 I think our spouses are tremendously helpful in this. Like you mentioned, if it's, you know, an income you guys are relying on. But having that conversation, I don't know. 36:42.724 --> 36:43.652 If I joked about it, but I. 36:43.668 --> 36:46.516 Said, hey, I'm concerned about making this change. 36:46.580 --> 36:49.924 She goes, well, ask them for 10,000 more. You know what? 36:50.004 --> 36:51.304 I'm gonna do that. 36:51.684 --> 36:53.184 I like that idea. 36:53.684 --> 36:54.580 Let's see what happens. 36:54.612 --> 37:00.384 I can live with that. If they say yes, I'm going. If they say no, I stay where I am. 37:00.684 --> 37:03.140 If you quit, that doesn't mean you. 37:03.172 --> 37:15.972 Have forsaken your grit, tenacity, and persistence. Right. And it doesn't mean that you've given up on those things or you no longer have those things. All you're doing is you're taking your grit and tenacity, and you're moving it in a different direction. 37:16.148 --> 37:17.604 It does mean, too, you can always. 37:17.644 --> 37:19.984 Go back to that place you worked once before. 37:20.324 --> 37:21.548 Very good point. 37:21.716 --> 37:23.242 If you didn't burn any bridges. 37:23.428 --> 37:30.686 No, I have some experience with that. But also, you got to plan your next steps. Right. 37:30.750 --> 37:31.062 Yeah. 37:31.118 --> 37:49.950 I mean, reflect on your. Why change your mindset a little bit so you can get over the idea of quitting, but you got to make a plan. You got to say, okay, what is your very next action? And sometimes you can only go as far as you can see, and when you get there, you'll see further. Love that phrase. But that's so true. But you got to plan your next step, a couple steps. 37:50.062 --> 37:53.814 You just can't go blindly into whatever. 37:53.854 --> 37:56.754 The great unknown is after you quit. 37:57.574 --> 38:02.634 Yeah, it's good to have a plan. I've never wanted to quit a job before I had another job. 38:03.574 --> 38:05.994 Yeah, there's a value there, too. 38:06.374 --> 38:09.814 There is a value there. Now, I know people who, who had. 38:09.854 --> 38:12.774 To quit immediately because they were like. 38:12.814 --> 38:15.094 On their last thread of sanity. 38:15.254 --> 38:15.974 Yes. 38:16.134 --> 38:20.966 And it really was part of that whole impact on well being portion that we talked about earlier. 38:21.070 --> 38:22.364 Yeah, I can see that. 38:22.534 --> 38:26.664 Where they have just. They've waited, frankly, they've waited too long. 38:26.784 --> 38:27.304 Right. 38:27.424 --> 38:37.648 They've waited too long to make this pivot. They've waited too long to quit, and now they're in a position where if they stay 1 second longer, they may literally lose their mind. 38:37.816 --> 38:45.376 I had someone in that first job we worked in customer service. I can remember one very dramatic moment. 38:45.480 --> 38:54.112 Where someone just walked out, screamed, yelled, had a moment in front of everyone and never came back. 38:54.288 --> 38:56.328 Yeah. Yeah. 38:56.496 --> 39:00.560 And I'll bet you that person, there were two things going on with that person. 39:00.712 --> 39:04.960 I'll bet you that. That what they were doing was misaligned. 39:04.992 --> 39:06.896 With their core values, for sure. Right. 39:06.960 --> 39:07.536 Yeah. 39:07.680 --> 39:11.576 And, and because of that, it was. 39:11.600 --> 39:13.240 Having an impact on their well being. 39:13.352 --> 39:13.712 Yeah. 39:13.768 --> 39:15.432 It was a stressful state, a lot. 39:15.448 --> 39:17.748 Of stress in that job and. 39:17.796 --> 39:18.188 Yeah. 39:18.276 --> 39:18.732 Yeah. 39:18.828 --> 39:20.180 That can be, I think, of people. 39:20.212 --> 39:28.388 That work long hours, too many hours. I mean that again, against my core values to help me raise my family. 39:28.476 --> 39:30.732 I'm not going to miss, I know you have the same. 39:30.868 --> 39:36.264 I'm not going to miss one of my kids ball games because somebody needs something at work. 39:39.604 --> 39:50.384 You got to plan your next step. If you're, if you've, if you've reflected on the why and you understand your motivations, you, you've kind of switched your mindset to understand you're not quitting now. 39:50.424 --> 39:51.964 You've planned your next step. 39:52.424 --> 39:54.176 But before, as you go through all. 39:54.200 --> 39:57.112 Of those, make sure you seek feedback. 39:57.248 --> 40:24.460 Talk to the people that you respect. Don't go into this with isolation. Don't go into this by yourself. Bounce your ideas and bounce your thoughts off somebody that you respect, somebody that you admire, somebody that you, that will, has your best interest in, heart, that doesn't have ego invested in your failure. They have ego invested in your success. Find those people in your life that you can really talk to. 40:24.612 --> 40:29.344 And as you quit, seek feedback. Seek wisdom from them. 40:30.364 --> 40:30.652 Yeah. 40:30.668 --> 40:31.764 It'll make you feel a lot better. 40:31.804 --> 40:43.034 About the decision, too, again, make even better choices. Help you sort things out. It's always collaboration with someone else that you trust is always huge. 40:43.454 --> 40:44.514 Absolutely. 40:44.854 --> 40:46.742 So when is it time to quit, Kurt? 40:46.798 --> 40:48.526 It's time to quit when it's when. 40:48.550 --> 41:03.582 You'Re misaligned with your core values, when you have diminishing returns, when you realize that there are other opportunities out there that you could be participating in that would give, that were more aligned with who you are. And if it has an impact on. 41:03.598 --> 41:11.314 Your well being, if you've checked all four of those boxes, it's a clear time to pivot. It's a clear time to quit. 41:12.494 --> 41:44.074 Once you go into the quitting phase, reflect on why you're quitting. Reflect on the reasons that you've come to this decision, and that just helps you build up your. Build your case internally and build your case for those that are closest to you and those who are impacted by your pivot and talking about pivotal change your mindset. Realize that you are still a person of grit and determination and perseverance, and you're taking those. Those qualities and pivoting them to another, into another direction. 41:44.494 --> 41:50.134 But as you go into that another direction, clearly plan your next steps. Put your plan together. 41:50.294 --> 41:56.726 And once you have all this together, seek wisdom from somebody that loves you, somebody that has your best interest in mind. 41:56.870 --> 42:04.944 And I think you'll find quitting or pivoting to be one of the best decisions you could make in your life. 42:05.484 --> 42:07.252 Great advice, Joe. 42:07.428 --> 42:08.904 Another Joe ism. 42:09.604 --> 42:10.244 Yeah. 42:10.364 --> 42:11.900 Let's wrap up right there. 42:12.092 --> 42:12.772 Awesome job. 42:12.828 --> 42:13.356 Fair enough. 42:13.460 --> 42:14.156 Yes. 42:14.340 --> 42:15.020 Great. 42:15.172 --> 42:16.412 I'm more comfortable. 42:16.468 --> 42:23.804 I gotta think of something to quit now. You got me thinking. Should I quit something right now? 42:23.964 --> 42:24.664 Yeah. 42:26.084 --> 42:28.476 We'll report back next week on what we quit. 42:28.580 --> 42:29.224 Right? 42:29.784 --> 42:31.096 You got a win for the week. 42:31.240 --> 42:33.800 I did more work on my bathroom renovation. 42:33.912 --> 42:36.656 I did some large amount of wall patching. 42:36.720 --> 42:37.776 I ripped out a bunch of two. 42:37.800 --> 42:41.800 By fours that were part of a closet that they built back in the. 42:41.832 --> 42:43.304 Seventies for my laundry room. 42:43.344 --> 42:45.576 I ripped that all out, and I. 42:45.600 --> 42:47.664 Got it about 90% done. 42:47.824 --> 42:53.336 I'm doing it this weekend and gonna have that finished probably in the next. 42:53.360 --> 42:57.284 Few days, so I'm excited to. And we're getting really close to laying the floor. 42:59.344 --> 42:59.808 Awesome. 42:59.856 --> 43:00.784 Congratulations. 43:00.864 --> 43:03.792 Our pal Clay said that, man, you're. 43:03.848 --> 43:05.528 You're becoming quite the handyman. 43:05.696 --> 43:10.004 I didn't disagree with him. I've got a little bit of confidence there now. 43:10.344 --> 43:11.072 Absolutely. 43:11.128 --> 43:15.044 I've got YouTube to help me. 43:16.064 --> 43:22.112 My win for the week is I finally went to an orthopedist for my shoulder. I don't know if I told you about my shoulder or not, Curtis? 43:22.128 --> 43:23.084 I don't think so. 43:23.654 --> 43:54.412 I dinged my shoulder somehow, and it's been like this for about two months. I don't know. It's not. Somehow, that was not the right way to put it. I know how I did it, but it's embarrassing how I did it. I was reaching around to put my seatbelt on with my left hand, so I'm kind of crooking it back, right? Kind of hand back. And my. In my seat was further up than it normally was, so I had to push a little harder to grab, to grab my seatbelt with my left hand. So imagine. Imagine you're holding your. 43:54.588 --> 43:55.308 Your. 43:55.476 --> 43:58.228 Your left hand up with your. 43:58.316 --> 44:01.572 With your hand pointing straight up and then pushing your shoulder back. 44:01.668 --> 44:02.204 Yeah. 44:02.324 --> 44:04.244 If you can. If you can get that visual. 44:04.324 --> 44:04.684 Right? 44:04.764 --> 44:06.204 Very awkward movement. 44:06.364 --> 44:11.340 And I pushed it, and I felt this little zing in my shoulder, and I thought, ah, man, that hurt. 44:11.452 --> 44:11.836 Yeah. 44:11.900 --> 44:13.732 Oh, man, that hurt bad, right? 44:13.788 --> 44:38.744 Wow. Did that hurt? And. But I thought it'd be okay in a couple days, but a couple days go by, and it still hurt. Goes by, and it still hurt, and a month goes by, and it still hurt. So I went to my doctor, actually, and he kind of gave me some exercises that didn't do any good, and he referred me to an orthopedist. I guess that's the right way, an orthopedic doctor. 44:39.724 --> 44:41.332 And I find. 44:41.388 --> 44:52.170 And I was putting it off and putting it off and putting it off, and I finally went to the orthopedist this week to work on my shoulder, and there is indeed, he. He suspects a small tear in my. 44:52.202 --> 44:54.922 Rotator cuff, whatever that tendon is there. 44:55.018 --> 44:55.506 Yes. 44:55.610 --> 44:57.394 And, uh, if. 44:57.434 --> 45:00.426 If nothing else, there's like a. I forget the word that he used for. 45:00.450 --> 45:04.570 It, but it just stretched or pulled or abraised somehow. 45:04.602 --> 45:18.826 I don't know. I can't remember the word that he used, but it's a problem. I mean, it hurts. It doesn't keep me up at night, doesn't keep me from doing the things I need to do. Part of that is just me being stoic about it, and. 45:18.930 --> 45:24.242 And part of it is it's not a full blown, full blown injury. But I did need to go to. 45:24.258 --> 45:28.334 The orthopedist for this and start up my pt yesterday. 45:29.114 --> 45:29.770 Okay. 45:29.842 --> 45:33.610 Good luck with that. Like, yeah, the reason I call that a win for. 45:33.642 --> 45:37.514 Oh, the reason I call that a win is because I didn't want to do it, and I was putting it all. 45:37.554 --> 45:38.258 I understand. 45:38.426 --> 45:51.484 I just didn't want to go through the process. I didn't want to. I didn't want to. I just didn't want to go, go do that. It was inconvenient. It was irritating. It was frustrating. I, you know, part of it is kind of feel like you're getting old because you tweaked it putting a seatbelt on. 45:53.424 --> 45:53.832 And. 45:53.888 --> 46:00.844 But I finally had to give in. So I'm going to call that my win for the week. I finally went to the orthopedist for my shoulder. 46:03.024 --> 46:05.604 How about your resource for the week? 46:06.184 --> 46:17.740 I think you're going to like mine, Joe. I hope it doesn't consume the rest of your Easter weekend. But I. When I have a hard time thinking of what I'm going to give for. 46:17.772 --> 46:28.984 This segment, I go to a website called lifehacker.com. And the very featured article there was, there's a new king of chatbots, and it's not chat GPT. 46:29.924 --> 46:31.092 No kidding? 46:31.268 --> 46:35.388 Yes. In reading the article, there's a couple things there. 46:35.556 --> 46:45.784 One is that there's this website that's called Chatbot arena, and you put in your prompt and it'll respond with two. 46:46.844 --> 46:53.784 AI responses from different websites or AI engines. 46:55.164 --> 47:00.716 And the one that's beating chat GPT is one called Claude three. 47:00.780 --> 47:01.544 Opus. 47:03.864 --> 47:05.040 Opus. Okay. 47:05.152 --> 47:05.456 All right. 47:05.480 --> 47:07.032 So you'll have to check out this website. 47:07.168 --> 47:09.888 And I did put in a prompt. 47:09.936 --> 47:17.856 I, I just found it this morning. I've only put in one prompt, and I was just. But I haven't really compared it at all. So there's, but there's two things there. 47:17.920 --> 47:33.164 That chat GPT is not the only game in town anymore. Check out chatbot arena and you can compare the different ones and see if you enjoy some artificial intelligence from someone other than chat GBT. 47:33.704 --> 47:35.240 I will definitely give it a shot. 47:35.312 --> 47:57.696 I'm going to have to consciously and intentionally not do it this weekend. I'm gonna have to set a timer. I mean, I'm gonna have to go back to my old, my old resource or hack to my, my trusty little, my trusty little timer here and say, okay, I'll set that timer for three days. And because I'm the type of guy that might even take a vacation day to mess with something like this. 47:57.840 --> 48:04.256 Oh, yeah, sorry about that. I realized that when I found this resource. 48:04.400 --> 48:09.352 So I will, I will definitely check that out. But that's what, what I like about. 48:09.408 --> 48:16.744 This resource, this AI world is really growing, and it's not stagnant, and there's. 48:16.784 --> 48:32.640 Going to be, there's going to be changes in innovation. And we have to, we have to accept these changes and these innovations and, and if there's something better than chat GPT, you know, I'll change my usage over to, to whatever that is. 48:32.672 --> 48:36.656 If it's Claude three, then okay. I'm okay with that. 48:36.720 --> 48:36.920 Yeah. 48:36.952 --> 48:38.512 We just talked about quitting, didn't we? 48:38.608 --> 48:38.880 Yeah. 48:38.912 --> 48:41.432 You can use different ones for different purposes. You never know. 48:41.448 --> 48:42.464 Or try both. 48:42.624 --> 48:43.016 Sure. 48:43.080 --> 48:44.488 Definitely, definitely. 48:44.536 --> 48:45.624 What's your resource? 48:45.744 --> 48:46.224 Hackers? 48:46.264 --> 48:47.896 I have an interesting resource. 48:48.040 --> 48:54.884 All right, now hear me out on this. My resource is Nashville, Tennessee. 48:55.824 --> 48:56.764 Okay? 48:58.384 --> 49:01.072 The reason I say that is, and. 49:01.088 --> 49:08.792 It'S a resource for me, and it's a resource for many, many people. Nashville, Tennessee is about a three and. 49:08.808 --> 49:11.484 A half, four hour drive from Cincinnati. 49:11.824 --> 49:21.124 And I went there this past week for a trade show for my work and to meet with some customers and to do that trade show thing. 49:21.724 --> 49:24.444 And I love Nashville. 49:24.484 --> 49:27.316 I've been there many, many times, and. 49:27.340 --> 49:31.484 I'm so impressed with, with what Nashville. 49:31.524 --> 49:32.612 Has to offer now. 49:32.668 --> 49:39.744 Everybody thinks about Nashville as the mecca of country music, and it is. 49:40.084 --> 49:40.740 And it is. 49:40.772 --> 49:43.748 There are people in Nashville, Tennessee, that. 49:43.876 --> 49:49.274 Are singing on the street corner with their guitar open and that are better. 49:49.394 --> 49:57.250 Than any singer, any other singers you're going to find anywhere else in the nation, right? But they're down there just trying to make their way. 49:57.402 --> 50:03.050 So the whole country music scene is amazing in Nashville, Tennessee. 50:03.082 --> 50:11.010 I mean, when you go down Broadway and you see the neon lights and you see the excitement and all this stuff that was going on, it's really. 50:11.082 --> 50:15.390 A neat experience, and it's a great little getaway. 50:15.542 --> 50:22.166 And it's not. I was staying in downtown Nashville, and it's not terribly expensive to stay in downtown Nashville. 50:22.270 --> 50:23.382 For me, it wasn't. 50:23.518 --> 50:25.246 But also, there's a lot to do. 50:25.270 --> 50:28.694 In Nashville that's really interesting. 50:28.734 --> 50:34.234 They have a, they have a full scale replica of the original Parthenon in Athens. 50:34.534 --> 50:34.910 It's. 50:34.942 --> 51:09.724 And it's a neat place to see. The zoo is fantastic. They have the Opryland Hotel, which is this great, neat hotel, even if you're not staying there. It's this huge hotel that almost has its own atmosphere inside it. It's that big. Nashville's just a neat place to go. And I know it's weird to say Nashville, Tennessee, as a resource, but if you want a quick little weekend getaway with lots to do and you like country music and you like interesting things, try Nashville, Tennessee. 51:09.804 --> 51:13.358 It's really a cool place. If you need a quick little getaway. 51:13.446 --> 51:18.994 There'S a lot to do. That you can do in a short period of time and a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee. 51:19.414 --> 51:28.070 I love it. I love music. I think it doesn't have to be just country music. There's lots of great music and I'm. 51:28.102 --> 51:30.486 Sure everywhere you go there's a fun. 51:30.590 --> 51:31.834 I love live music. 51:32.294 --> 51:33.174 Yep, me too. 51:33.254 --> 51:34.594 I'm all about it. 51:34.974 --> 51:36.222 You have a quote for us? 51:36.358 --> 51:40.504 I do have a quote. Let go of certainty. 51:41.004 --> 51:43.824 The opposite isn't uncertainty. 51:44.204 --> 51:48.052 It's openness, curiosity and unwillingness to embrace. 51:48.148 --> 51:51.544 Paradox rather than choose upsides. 51:51.844 --> 51:54.244 The ultimate challenge is to accept ourselves. 51:54.324 --> 51:56.788 Exactly as we are but never stop. 51:56.836 --> 51:58.344 Trying to learn and grow. 51:59.044 --> 52:00.076 Tony Schwartz. 52:00.140 --> 52:04.202 I don't know who Tony Schwartz is, but there's great wisdom in his words. 52:04.388 --> 52:05.966 I don't know Tony Schwartz either, but. 52:05.990 --> 52:07.234 I like that, man. 52:07.774 --> 52:08.630 I like that. 52:08.702 --> 52:11.774 Misses Schwartz is really well into our discussion. 52:11.814 --> 52:12.394 Yeah. 52:14.454 --> 52:16.126 Schwartz, Schwartz and Schwartz. 52:16.230 --> 52:18.674 He's part of the legal team. 52:20.774 --> 52:21.550 Three Stooges. 52:21.622 --> 52:28.918 Whoever, whoever, whoever Tony Schwartz is. He's a wise man because, I mean, you do have to let go of certainty, right? 52:29.006 --> 52:29.414 Yeah. 52:29.494 --> 52:37.484 If you want to grow. And this really dove, dove, doves tale perfectly into our conversation about quitting, about pivoting. 52:37.644 --> 52:42.116 The opposite isn't uncertainty, it's openness. I love that. 52:42.220 --> 52:49.524 That's about the whole mindset change. It's openness, curiosity and willingness to embrace paradox. I love that, man. 52:49.564 --> 52:50.544 Good quote. 52:51.444 --> 52:55.744 Mine comes from none other, none other than Albert Einstein. 52:56.224 --> 53:01.004 And I don't know if this is attributed to Albert Einstein. 53:01.424 --> 53:03.064 I'm not sure it really came from. 53:03.104 --> 53:07.112 Albert Einstein, but we'll just, we'll give. 53:07.128 --> 53:11.320 It to him anyway. Now keep in mind our conversation about. 53:11.352 --> 53:19.312 Quitting as I, as I give you this quote from Albert Einstein, and we've all heard this hundreds of times, but. 53:19.328 --> 53:20.480 It'S appropriate for this moment. 53:20.512 --> 53:28.584 Now, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. 53:30.364 --> 53:32.664 Yes, I love that quote. 53:33.284 --> 53:34.836 Yes, I've heard that many times. 53:34.900 --> 53:43.460 How true it is, man. Now we know that that's not the clinical definition of insanity, but I understand his, the spirit of what he's saying. 53:43.572 --> 53:44.224 Yeah. 53:45.324 --> 53:50.024 Sometimes we beat our head or our head against the wall because it feels so good when we stop. 53:51.234 --> 53:59.066 And when we do something over and over again and expect different results, we're. 53:59.090 --> 54:04.494 Going to drive ourselves crazy and it's going to be painful and it's going to be irritating and frustrating. 54:06.874 --> 54:08.050 So stop it. 54:08.202 --> 54:08.934 Quit. 54:09.554 --> 54:15.134 Quit doing that thing that doesn't move your life in the right direction. 54:15.924 --> 54:16.212 Yeah. 54:16.228 --> 54:23.424 If you're knocking on a door, no one's answering stop knocking on the door. Go knock on another door. 54:23.724 --> 54:25.164 Oh, that's beautiful, man. 54:25.244 --> 54:25.864 Right? 54:26.444 --> 54:32.116 Stop knocking on the door if nobody's answering. And that's a, that's a courtesan right there. I don't know if you made that up on the. 54:32.140 --> 54:33.492 No. Beautiful, dude. 54:33.588 --> 54:35.300 Yeah, I think I heard that somewhere. 54:35.452 --> 54:39.068 And I think the time has come to quit this show. To quit this episode. 54:39.116 --> 54:40.348 Great show, Joe. 54:40.396 --> 54:41.704 Let's quit right there. 54:42.224 --> 55:17.496 Our website is dudesinprogress.com dot. Dudesinprogress.com dot. If you want to email us, you can email us@dudesinprogress.com. That's dudesinprogress.com. And as we go into this beautiful Easter weekend. Happy Easter, everybody. You're probably listening to this either late Saturday or on Easter day itself. Remember, you may have to quit. And if you're quitting the right way and for the right reasons, you're making progress. And progress is better than perfection. So let's keep moving forward. 55:17.600 --> 55:23.524 I love it. I gotta do some more quitting. I'm inspired to do more quitting, Joe. I'll start next week. 55:24.424 --> 55:27.920 Yeah, try to quit something this week, buddy. Talk to you soon. 55:27.992 --> 55:28.696 I'll blame it on.