WEBVTT 00:02.000 --> 00:05.000 Hello and welcome to the HumanWare See Things Differently podcast. 00:05.000 --> 00:17.000 Each month, join your hosts Peter Tucic, Rachel Ramos and David Woodbridge as we bring you engaging interviews from guests, interaction from our one of a kind distribution partners stories that will take you off the beaten path. 00:17.000 --> 00:21.000 Current promos, shows where you can find us, and so much more. 00:21.000 --> 00:24.000 So stick around. Hi everyone, this is Rachel. 00:24.000 --> 00:29.000 I have a quick prerecorded announcement from Peter that I'd like to play at the beginning of the show. 00:29.000 --> 00:31.000 Without further ado, here we go. 00:31.000 --> 00:41.000 I am going to thank each and every one of you who listens, and each and every one of you who maybe I've interacted with over the last ten years that I've been at HumanWare 00:42.000 --> 00:49.000 I have made a very tough decision, to move forward and do some other things, and I wouldn't call it forward. 00:49.000 --> 00:51.000 Moving moving on. 00:51.000 --> 00:54.000 I think it's, time for me to take a bit of time off the road. 00:55.000 --> 01:04.000 And spend some time with my family, and I'm going to be taking an opportunity to do some more local work around, the state of Illinois and here in Chicago. 01:04.000 --> 01:13.000 But I have appreciated getting to know every one of you, whether you've attended HumanWare live webinars or other user webinars I've done over the years. 01:13.000 --> 01:16.000 If we've corresponded over email. 01:16.000 --> 01:20.000 If you've enjoyed this podcast, it's about to get a lot better because I won't be here. 01:20.000 --> 01:22.000 So David and Rachel are going to just make it shine. 01:23.000 --> 01:24.000 More so than Peter's. 01:24.000 --> 01:25.000 I say all too much. 01:25.000 --> 01:27.000 So that needs to be needs to be remedied. 01:27.000 --> 01:34.000 I never took a good course on true, effective podcasting, but, I've really appreciated all of you. 01:34.000 --> 01:42.000 And if you do hear me or see me somewhere along the way, because I will still be floating around here and there, conferences or other things, come find me. 01:42.000 --> 01:47.000 Say hello and tell me you want to get a coffee or some kind of beverage. 01:47.000 --> 01:49.000 I'm always open to anything. 01:49.000 --> 01:49.000 But I've, 01:49.000 --> 01:53.000 I've really appreciated being a part of this for such a long time. 01:53.000 --> 02:05.000 And the podcast has been a short part of this for the last five months, but certainly know that, I'm so proud of HumanWare I'm so proud of what we've done, what HumanWare we'll continue to do is going to be exciting. 02:05.000 --> 02:07.000 There's lots of neat things coming. 02:07.000 --> 02:12.000 Whether it be with the Monarch and other products, there's so many great things on the horizon. 02:12.000 --> 02:16.000 And I've been so unbelievably fortunate to be a part of it. 02:16.000 --> 02:22.000 And it's meant a lot to me to get to know so many amazing people throughout our field. 02:22.000 --> 02:34.000 And whether it's education or for the professionals or the retirees or the hobbyists or the braille transcribers or the, the students, the users that I've been able to talk with over the years, 02:34.000 --> 02:36.000 I've appreciated it tremendously. 02:36.000 --> 02:38.000 So thank you to all of you. 02:38.000 --> 02:47.000 Thank you for continuing to listen and thank you for supporting HumanWare and all of the things we do and have done for the last 35 years. 02:47.000 --> 02:54.000 Thank you, everybody, and we'll be back with See Things Differently next month on July 17th. 02:55.000 --> 02:55.000 Thank you all. 02:59.000 --> 03:00.000 Good morning. 03:00.000 --> 03:01.000 Good day. 03:01.000 --> 03:08.000 Good afternoon, good evening, good 4:00 hour for me and you, Rachel, it's 4:00. 03:08.000 --> 03:09.000 But for David, as always. 03:09.000 --> 03:11.000 What time is it, David? 03:11.000 --> 03:12.000 Oh, look, it's 1 a.m. in the morning. No it's not. 03:12.000 --> 03:14.000 It's actually 7:30 a.m.. 03:14.000 --> 03:16.000 It's very nice. See, one of these times, I'm telling you, we're going to. 03:16.000 --> 03:17.000 We will. 03:17.000 --> 03:19.000 We will flip the script. 03:19.000 --> 03:21.000 It will be, you know, 3 a.m. for me. 03:21.000 --> 03:24.000 So you can get a nice like. No, I guess that would be 6 p.m.. 03:24.000 --> 03:25.000 We need to do on a normal time for you. 03:25.000 --> 03:28.000 How about 2 p.m. for you? 03:29.000 --> 03:33.000 So like 11 p.m. for us, Rachel, and I'll be up really late and it'll be fair. 03:33.000 --> 03:35.000 Would that be fair? That would be awesome. It would be awesome. 03:35.000 --> 03:37.000 Yes. Yeah. We need to work on that. We're going to do it. 03:37.000 --> 03:40.000 And and you'll sound so just you have a pep in your step. 03:41.000 --> 03:41.000 You know. 03:43.000 --> 03:46.000 Indeed from the feedback we get at podcast@humanware.com 03:46.000 --> 03:49.000 Everyone says you sound so tired they feel like you're always here in the morning. 03:50.000 --> 03:51.000 No one said that. 03:51.000 --> 03:53.000 Listen, I work 24 hours, seven days a week, right? 03:53.000 --> 03:55.000 No one, no one has said that. 03:55.000 --> 04:00.000 But if you do have those kind of thoughts, you can always email us podcast@humanware.com 04:00.000 --> 04:02.000 How's it going Rachel how's it going? 04:02.000 --> 04:05.000 Peter. Greetings. Salutations. 04:05.000 --> 04:07.000 What's up? 04:07.000 --> 04:08.000 I'm glad you have a computer. 04:08.000 --> 04:10.000 That doesn't make you sound like you're under the water. Me too. 04:10.000 --> 04:12.000 That was exciting. 04:12.000 --> 04:16.000 Oh, I'll need to investigate after we recorded and make it sound good. 04:16.000 --> 04:19.000 Yeah, we need to put an outtake of you saying hello, everyone. 04:19.000 --> 04:20.000 Right in the middle of this and just. 04:20.000 --> 04:21.000 Hello, everyone. 04:21.000 --> 04:24.000 But on that other computer so they can hear what you could have sounded like on this podcast. 04:24.000 --> 04:26.000 Oh dear. Welcome to June. 04:26.000 --> 04:32.000 And this month we're going to be talking about an event that occurs every June annually for the last many years. 04:32.000 --> 04:34.000 And we'll hear exactly how many years coming up. 04:34.000 --> 04:39.000 But we are going to be talking about the Braille challenge and really, the 04:39.000 --> 04:43.000 Braille challenge is something I was first exposed to about, this ten years ago. 04:43.000 --> 04:46.000 Would it be ten years ago this year? 04:46.000 --> 04:47.000 And it's an event. 04:47.000 --> 04:49.000 It is a competition. 04:49.000 --> 04:51.000 It is one of a kind, truly one of a kind. 04:51.000 --> 04:52.000 We're going to dive into to exactly what it is. 04:52.000 --> 04:55.000 But it takes place every summer. 04:55.000 --> 04:57.000 The finals at least take place every summer. 04:57.000 --> 05:00.000 The actual events will take place throughout the spring. 05:00.000 --> 05:14.000 And we are going to hear from a friend of mine, a new mom, an awesome person in general, Madeleine Hernandez, who is the National and Youth Programs Manager at Braille Institute in sunny SoCal. 05:14.000 --> 05:17.000 Is it sunny Madeleine? It is. It's beautiful. 05:17.000 --> 05:20.000 Welcome to See Things Differently, the podcast. 05:20.000 --> 05:23.000 Delighted to be here. Thanks for having me. 05:23.000 --> 05:24.000 You're welcome. 05:24.000 --> 05:25.000 We're fired up. 05:25.000 --> 05:29.000 And, you know, I, I know that many, many people, 05:29.000 --> 05:39.000 I think, especially in this country are aware, you know, of braille challenge who especially who are younger or who maybe have recently graduated school, or have gone through 05:39.000 --> 05:42.000 K-12 education in the last 20, 25 years. 05:42.000 --> 05:48.000 But can you give us a brief overview of what Braille challenge is? 05:48.000 --> 05:50.000 And then I want to we're going to I'm going to have some questions for you too. 05:50.000 --> 05:56.000 But I want to talk Braille challenge. Now we're going to talk about how you kind of support Braille challenge which is which is pretty cool. 05:56.000 --> 05:56.000 Absolutely. 05:56.000 --> 06:07.000 So Braille Challenge is the only academic competition of its kind for students in grades 1 through 12 who are blind or visually impaired and who read and write Braille. 06:08.000 --> 06:19.000 And what it does is it provides a platform for students to hone their Braille skills, which, as you all know, are essential to academic and employment success. 06:19.000 --> 06:29.000 And beyond that, it provides a space for our students to make friends and develop lifelong friendships. 06:29.000 --> 06:32.000 And is it something that, 06:32.000 --> 06:35.000 I mean, I'm assuming it it started very it was hyperlocal. 06:35.000 --> 06:40.000 We know it's such a national event and even international event, but when did it start? 06:40.000 --> 06:47.000 This year we are celebrating our 25th anniversary, so Braille Challenge has been around for a quarter of a century. 06:48.000 --> 07:01.000 It started in the year 2000, in Southern California, and since then we've expanded to 36 U.S. states, and four countries outside of the US. 07:01.000 --> 07:04.000 So we're so proud of the growth that we've seen in 25 years. 07:05.000 --> 07:13.000 Over that 25 years, we've reached nearly 22,000 students, in participation. 07:13.000 --> 07:15.000 That's awesome. Including Rachel. 07:15.000 --> 07:16.000 You reached Rachel? 07:16.000 --> 07:18.000 Yes, we did many moons ago. 07:18.000 --> 07:21.000 You did 20 years ago. 07:21.000 --> 07:22.000 They reached you. 07:22.000 --> 07:25.000 They did 20 years. So you you were there. 07:25.000 --> 07:26.000 You were at like the first. 07:26.000 --> 07:28.000 You were at the first, like before the quarter turn. 07:28.000 --> 07:32.000 That's right. 2004 and 2006. 07:32.000 --> 07:34.000 Madeleine, how did this expand? 07:34.000 --> 07:41.000 I was living on the East Coast at the time, and I competed in my school and then was able to go out to the finals, which was so much fun. 07:41.000 --> 07:42.000 I'd never been out to California at the time. 07:42.000 --> 07:45.000 So how did that expand? 07:45.000 --> 07:49.000 Because as Peter mentioned, you reached me and I had so much fun at the competition. 07:49.000 --> 07:49.000 Yeah. 07:49.000 --> 08:02.000 So we started in Southern California, in Orange County through our Braille Institute office, and we have partnerships across the U.S. and contacts. 08:02.000 --> 08:11.000 And our first regional that we held was in New England, and they've been participating for 25 years as well. 08:11.000 --> 08:18.000 So it started with having students in Southern California and then in New England. 08:18.000 --> 08:28.000 And then two years later we added Oklahoma, and since then we've just been adding new partners, new regionals across the country. 08:28.000 --> 08:31.000 I think after that it was Iowa and Nebraska, Florida. 08:31.000 --> 08:39.000 And typically these have been through contacts at schools for the blind or other agencies that serve the blind and visually impaired. 08:39.000 --> 08:47.000 And with these partnerships, they identify how important it is to bring this type of program to their students. 08:47.000 --> 08:51.000 And that's why we've seen so much growth over these 25 years. 08:52.000 --> 08:57.000 And just slowly but surely, we've just been expanding and we're- it's been great. 08:57.000 --> 09:00.000 And I know, you know, people think Braille challenge. 09:00.000 --> 09:03.000 And when we think of Braille, we think of, oh it's something we read. 09:03.000 --> 09:05.000 I mean, the Braille challenge is not just reading Braille. 09:05.000 --> 09:06.000 I mean, I know it certainly is. 09:06.000 --> 09:11.000 There's reading components, but what what makes up a typical Braille challenge event? 09:11.000 --> 09:13.000 There's so many pieces to this. 09:13.000 --> 09:18.000 So it's primarily for students in grades 1 through 12. 09:18.000 --> 09:23.000 They're split up into five categories based on their age. 09:23.000 --> 09:29.000 And then based on their age they take either 3 or 4 different contests. 09:29.000 --> 09:37.000 And those are proofreading, reading comprehension, speed and accuracy, spelling and charts and graphs. 09:38.000 --> 09:42.000 That is Braille challenge at its most basic level. 09:42.000 --> 09:56.000 A student participates in those contests and either reads and answers the questions or for speed and accuracy, they listen to an audio passage and transcribe what they're hearing. 09:56.000 --> 10:12.000 But Braille challenge in itself can be so much more than that, because we always invite partners in the field to provide parent workshops, or we provide entertainment or connect students with resources in their communities. 10:13.000 --> 10:27.000 So as much of it as it is about Braille literacy and celebrating that, it's also about getting students, connected with their resources and their communities, meeting other families and students, making friends. 10:27.000 --> 10:29.000 So many more aspects to it. 10:29.000 --> 10:31.000 Yeah, I totally agree. 10:31.000 --> 10:41.000 And as someone who's been to many Braille Challenge finals and some regionals as well, just that level of connection, getting families together from different corners of the world. 10:41.000 --> 10:47.000 Well, I mean, and of the country, of the state of the region you're in is is very cool. 10:47.000 --> 10:53.000 And I think what's even neater is not only do the contestants come in, but their families are there, their siblings are there. 10:53.000 --> 11:14.000 And I think so often the the blind kiddo, that blind participant is going to their siblings baseball game or hockey game or so I'm just kind of sitting there right when I'm being a part of the action where this pulls in families where, you know, the that whole competition is centered around that, that blind child, that Braille reader. 11:14.000 --> 11:22.000 And so it's, it puts the other family members in that spectator seat that maybe sometimes, you know, the blanket is in and never gets to get out of. 11:22.000 --> 11:24.000 So I think that's very, very cool. Absolutely. 11:24.000 --> 11:37.000 And that's one of the important aspects of this program, is providing students with a platform for experiencing an academic competition and something that is for them and that they're experts in. 11:37.000 --> 11:43.000 And I think that's really exciting to be able to have that arena for these students. 11:44.000 --> 11:48.000 And so to get kind of into the into the other side. 11:48.000 --> 11:52.000 And now it has grown and I, I know that last year at Braille Challenge 11:52.000 --> 11:56.000 I met some of the UK contingent that was there. 11:56.000 --> 12:02.000 I know in years past we've had, we've had quite a few Canadians and now, David, you are in the fold as of last year. 12:02.000 --> 12:04.000 Right. Because Australia is on board. 12:04.000 --> 12:08.000 So how did that kind of come about. 12:08.000 --> 12:11.000 And I want to hear from you, David. 12:11.000 --> 12:15.000 You know, just as to kind of what you've seen at the World Challenge. 12:15.000 --> 12:17.000 But Madeleine how is that? 12:17.000 --> 12:19.000 Ben I know it's got to be a long way. 12:19.000 --> 12:25.000 I mean, having a competition that is so U.S centric or North American centric and then trying to bring in these others and say, you're part of this. 12:25.000 --> 12:28.000 And by the way, we're going to we're going to bring you to LA from London. 12:28.000 --> 12:31.000 I'm sure that's a bit tricky. 12:31.000 --> 12:32.000 And how is that gone? 12:32.000 --> 12:39.000 And has it been different to do a, you know, this North American kind of braille challenge in a different country, the format. 12:39.000 --> 12:57.000 So it was very exciting to be able to add on Australia as one of our regional partners and to move into a new continent and to recognize the importance of Braille challenge and the excitement that surrounds it. 12:57.000 --> 12:59.000 We see in our partners. 12:59.000 --> 13:03.000 They recognize the significance of this program for their students. 13:03.000 --> 13:07.000 So bringing the program to Australia has been very smooth. 13:08.000 --> 13:21.000 We designed our program to be a program in the box, so we provide all of the contents and all of the information that a new regional partner would need to host a real challenge. 13:21.000 --> 13:25.000 So they have all the instructions that their proctors would need. 13:25.000 --> 13:28.000 They have the contest that their students get to use. 13:28.000 --> 13:35.000 We have templates for everything and how to recruit volunteers to help the day run smoothly. 13:35.000 --> 13:48.000 So we do everything on our end to support any agencies or schools, or even groups of teachers who wish to proctor Braille challenge to their students. 13:48.000 --> 14:03.000 We work to make it as smooth as possible, because we know that this is something that's offered outside the classroom, and teachers are really busy with everything else that they have going on and serving their students, and we want to make this as smooth as possible. 14:03.000 --> 14:14.000 So getting this to Australia, it did take a little bit longer for those boxes to arrive, but really we did our best to get them everything they need it to host a successful program. 14:15.000 --> 14:16.000 I love it, the plug and play. 14:16.000 --> 14:18.000 And David you attended the Braille challenge didn't you? 14:18.000 --> 14:22.000 I did I I've never seen so many Perkins Braille as in one spot before. 14:22.000 --> 14:26.000 I think there was 38 of them and it brought back memories from school. 14:26.000 --> 14:32.000 I've never I've just I've lost the sound of the historic sound of Perkins Braille is happening. 14:32.000 --> 14:35.000 So that was good to remind me when I was eight years old, a long time ago. 14:35.000 --> 14:37.000 But now, look, it was good. 14:37.000 --> 14:39.000 See Differently 14:39.000 --> 14:43.000 In Australia they brought the Braille challenge in. 14:43.000 --> 14:47.000 And I attended last year very enthusiastic. 14:47.000 --> 14:57.000 The students were, you know, you could see everyone in different rooms doing their different test, and they came out and had a play with all the the tech stuff outside. 14:57.000 --> 15:04.000 And it was just a really great environment because sometimes, you know, you get that, you get the nice size that, you know, 15:04.000 --> 15:12.000 I was dying and it was just great to see volunteers, parents, families, professionals, everybody else getting very enthusiastic. 15:12.000 --> 15:14.000 So I was I was absolutely amazed. 15:14.000 --> 15:21.000 So it was good and I believe this year, See Differently is trying to get it to be more of a national event. 15:21.000 --> 15:25.000 And of course, you know, may even we will be participating once again. 15:25.000 --> 15:27.000 So I was actually really glad to be part of it. 15:27.000 --> 15:30.000 And the beauty of that is, you know, this is where again, 15:30.000 --> 15:39.000 I not not to start the Braille debate, we're not going to play Braille debate here, but the beauty of unified English Braille is at play right? 15:39.000 --> 15:45.000 Because previously, a Braille event, a Braille centric event could take place in the US. 15:45.000 --> 16:01.000 And that that plug and play mentality that Madeleine, you just talked about, if you wanted to shift it over to Australia or to the UK or to New Zealand or to South Africa or to any English speaking place, the Braille code itself would be different and that is no longer the case. 16:01.000 --> 16:11.000 And so I think again, you know, we get into and we all have a preference and maybe some of us, you know, out there certainly do still prefer the old Braille. 16:11.000 --> 16:32.000 But if you look at an opportunity like this where a kiddo sitting in Australia can compete with a kiddo sitting, you know, in school in the UK can compete with somebody in Florida and they can all be doing in and kind of working through the same content to eventually, you know, be it be in the finals if they're selected, if they win their regional, that is what is so neat. 16:32.000 --> 16:40.000 And that is where the plug and play method that you reference Madeleine is, is clearly I mean, it's working and that is in large part thanks to UEB. 16:40.000 --> 16:42.000 So I think that's really neat. Absolutely. 16:42.000 --> 16:47.000 And with that, in the last year we've even been able to add on another country. 16:47.000 --> 16:51.000 And we're now doing Braille challenge in Ireland as well. 16:51.000 --> 16:57.000 So it really speaks to the power of our ability to just work with so many different countries. 16:57.000 --> 17:02.000 And however, expanding the reach of Braille challenges, which is just so fantastic. 17:02.000 --> 17:04.000 Actually, Madeleine, I've got a I've got a question. 17:04.000 --> 17:12.000 Is it a students just meant to use only a Perkins or can students use other electronic devices? 17:12.000 --> 17:27.000 So I mean, I know I mean, I've had my Perkins since jeez 1974 and it's still going, but I'm just wondering, are you looking at expanding to more electronic devices in the future, or is it pretty much still the Perkins stuff that children start off with at school? 17:27.000 --> 17:42.000 We've done research on potentially adding on the digital format to the contest, but for now we are sticking with the Perkins Brailler because it keeps the competition even across the board. 17:42.000 --> 17:51.000 For every student that participates, there's no advantage to being on a device that they may perform faster on or whatever it may be. 17:51.000 --> 17:58.000 So to just keep it even with all of the students who participate each and every year, we use the Perkins Brailler. 17:59.000 --> 18:00.000 Okay, that makes sense. 18:00.000 --> 18:02.000 Yeah, good. How does the listening piece work? 18:02.000 --> 18:10.000 Like if you have seven kids or, you know, hearing one passage and trying to Braille away, how does that happen? 18:10.000 --> 18:16.000 Every student has access to some kind of audio device for the speed and accuracy contest, so. Gotcha. 18:16.000 --> 18:17.000 They wear headphones. 18:17.000 --> 18:24.000 They use a device often for finals, for example, we provide Victor Reader Streams. 18:24.000 --> 18:26.000 Oh, we know what those are. 18:26.000 --> 18:28.000 You may be familiar. 18:28.000 --> 18:34.000 And so they have the ability to rewind, fast forward pause. 18:34.000 --> 18:36.000 So it's every student has their own. 18:36.000 --> 18:39.000 And so it's really not disruptive in the classroom. 18:39.000 --> 18:46.000 I need to know, Rachel, when you did this, you obviously did really well because you got you went to LA. 18:46.000 --> 18:49.000 So you were like you were like the top of the crew there. 18:49.000 --> 18:54.000 But the real question is, what was your favorite? 18:54.000 --> 18:56.000 What was actually what were you the worst at? 18:56.000 --> 18:58.000 That that's what I want to know. 18:58.000 --> 18:59.000 Where did you really struggle? 18:59.000 --> 19:00.000 You know where I struggle. 19:00.000 --> 19:04.000 I was just going to comment on, before we get to that. 19:04.000 --> 19:07.000 And it was tactile graphics, by the way. 19:08.000 --> 19:14.000 But before we get to that, I love that you guys use Victor Streams because what I went through, they used tape players, man. 19:14.000 --> 19:21.000 And I think you had it was either a foot pedal or something, so you could pause and rewind to get everything. 19:21.000 --> 19:23.000 I am pretty sure that's that's how that went. 19:23.000 --> 19:33.000 So the fact you guys use Victor Streams just is so, so cool because it's so much easier to kind of rewind, fast forward to make sure that you get everything, but you struggle with charts and graphs. 19:33.000 --> 19:35.000 Let's talk about the real question. 19:35.000 --> 19:38.000 And so the charts and graphs, charts and graphs. 19:38.000 --> 19:40.000 That was tough. 19:40.000 --> 19:44.000 So much more advances have been made to make those graphics, you know, easier to read and whatnot. 19:44.000 --> 19:46.000 And we've just come such a long way. 19:46.000 --> 20:03.000 I'm glad you say it, though, because we talk a lot about not just Braille literacy, but especially now with the Monarch and a lot of what we're doing and what we're trying to do as a whole for the for the all blind kiddos out there, for all blind people out there, is develop and create a better way for us to develop tactile, graphic or graphical literacy. 20:04.000 --> 20:06.000 Because we just don't see enough graphics. 20:06.000 --> 20:13.000 So sometimes the reason isn't that you were bad at consuming that tactile graphic, it's just that we don't feel enough charts and graphs. 20:13.000 --> 20:19.000 We really don't. And if you, you know, the more we're exposed to that kind of material at younger ages, 20:19.000 --> 20:24.000 I think the better we all can be at performing on charts and graphs. 20:25.000 --> 20:28.000 But I, I don't know, I think it's ultimately what we want to see. 20:28.000 --> 20:32.000 And I'd be very curious if we were to come back in 25 years, so I'm not sure. 20:32.000 --> 20:37.000 Madeline, what you're doing on May something 2050, but we can schedule it now. 20:37.000 --> 20:39.000 I can look how far forward my Outlook calendar goes. 20:39.000 --> 20:41.000 I'll accept the calendar invite. 20:41.000 --> 20:44.000 If we were to start in 20 years. 20:44.000 --> 20:49.000 And kind of look though at have the charts and graphs scores going up in any way, shape or form. 20:49.000 --> 20:59.000 With the advent of the, you know, kind of dynamic tactile devices that are out there, be it Monarch and, and be it be at others that have come and will continue to come on onto the scene. 21:00.000 --> 21:01.000 I'd love to know. 21:01.000 --> 21:08.000 If that's impacted the the tactile literacy, if you will, of graphics and I think I think it will I really think it will. 21:09.000 --> 21:13.000 But it'd be interesting to see because that's one of our goals. I wanted to ask. 21:13.000 --> 21:16.000 So in terms of the competition, is there any, 21:16.000 --> 21:19.000 I mean, categories that may be added or anything else? 21:19.000 --> 21:20.000 Are there any changes? 21:20.000 --> 21:22.000 How often does the content get refreshed? 21:22.000 --> 21:25.000 Because obviously, you know, blind kids are really good at memorizing things. 21:25.000 --> 21:32.000 I guarantee you there are some blind kids to memorize that entire challenge, and they think they're going to get the same one next year, and they're going to crush it. 21:32.000 --> 21:33.000 And then they show up and it's different content. 21:33.000 --> 21:36.000 But how often does it get refreshed? 21:36.000 --> 21:42.000 So the content itself is refreshed every year we work with a group of contest developers. 21:42.000 --> 21:45.000 Hear that kids? Every single year. 21:45.000 --> 21:46.000 So memorize all you want. 21:46.000 --> 21:49.000 It's good practice, but it won't help you the year after. 21:49.000 --> 22:04.000 So we work with a group of contest developers who are teachers, professors, and professionals in the field who work with students who help develop the content, ensure that they're age appropriate and challenging for our students. 22:04.000 --> 22:07.000 So every year, the content itself gets refreshed. 22:07.000 --> 22:17.000 We've had the same age categories and proofreading, reading comprehension, speed and accuracy, charts and graphs, spelling those are all staples of the Braille Challenge program. 22:17.000 --> 22:22.000 But most recently, we've added a new category called foundational. 22:22.000 --> 22:28.000 And this category is for all students learning Braille. 22:28.000 --> 22:40.000 So Braille challenge in the past has really been about Braille excellence and the introduction of the foundational category brings more students to the table. 22:40.000 --> 22:41.000 Because 22:41.000 --> 22:46.000 Braille learners are on all areas of the spectrum. 22:46.000 --> 22:58.000 Maybe a student recently lost their vision and they're in 10th grade and the Braille Challenge competition is not for them because they don't have the speed to keep up with their peers, for example. 22:59.000 --> 23:00.000 But we want to motivate that student. 23:00.000 --> 23:04.000 We want them to be excited about braille literacy and learning and practicing. 23:04.000 --> 23:07.000 So foundational might be the right place for them. 23:07.000 --> 23:18.000 Or maybe a student who is just in the preliminary, very early stages and may not have the capacity to learn up until the 12th grade level of Braille. 23:18.000 --> 23:21.000 Maybe the foundational category is best for them. 23:21.000 --> 23:29.000 So this is something that we introduced inspired by regionals, who are already doing this with some of their students. 23:29.000 --> 23:33.000 We worked with Doctor Adam Wilton, who's been on the Braille 23:33.000 --> 23:47.000 Challenge Advisory Committee because he and his team, and Braille Challenge in British Columbia, Canada, they were doing this and designing contests for their students who were most appropriate for foundational. 23:47.000 --> 23:53.000 So we're proud that we are offering this, across the board to all of our Braille Challenge regionals. 23:53.000 --> 23:57.000 And this past year, 20% of our Braille 23:57.000 --> 24:00.000 Challenge participants were in the foundational category. 24:00.000 --> 24:03.000 So there's absolutely a need there. 24:03.000 --> 24:07.000 And, we hope to see this category grow and serve more students. 24:07.000 --> 24:11.000 That's really cool too, because I think that it's very challenging for, 24:12.000 --> 24:22.000 I mean, certainly for adults who are newer of vision loss to learn Braille, but definitely those dual learners or those students who maybe don't didn't start learning like I did or Rachel did or David did. 24:22.000 --> 24:32.000 When we're in first grade, kindergarten, you know, where they really struggle because they're then they're just reading, like, it just feels like they're they're babied into it. 24:32.000 --> 24:34.000 Right? They're starting with these books that are meant for three year olds. 24:34.000 --> 24:40.000 And so but they're 16 or 17, you know, and it's just a major struggle. 24:40.000 --> 24:43.000 And they certainly isn't something they really want to be doing anyway. 24:43.000 --> 24:45.000 So I, I love it I absolutely love it. 24:45.000 --> 24:50.000 I guess the last question that I have is about getting- 24:50.000 --> 24:54.000 So if someone is interested because we, we will have people listening from all over the place. 24:55.000 --> 25:00.000 And if somebody is interested in, you know, I know it takes it takes a lot. 25:00.000 --> 25:04.000 You know, a gaggle I'm going to say of volunteers, certainly to put these things together. 25:05.000 --> 25:06.000 What can somebody do? 25:06.000 --> 25:12.000 How does somebody say, well, I have like 10 to 12 Braille, you know, readers or learners in my area. 25:12.000 --> 25:18.000 And I'd love to start to explore how this can be done, because we see it can kind of grow from, from the ground up. 25:18.000 --> 25:20.000 How would they go about doing that? 25:20.000 --> 25:22.000 There's a couple options here. 25:22.000 --> 25:45.000 So if a teacher has a few students with whom they work and they'd be interested in offering Braille challenge to them on a small scale, we offer TVI proctored Braille challenge, so a TVI can order contest and proctor Braille Challenge either one on one or in a small group, and host their own mini Braille challenge. 25:45.000 --> 26:03.000 That way, if they're interested in starting a regional and oftentimes that is how a regional start very small scale and then they get their colleagues and peers and families and school administration on board, and it turns into a regional that's hosted by a school or an agency. 26:04.000 --> 26:10.000 They can reach out to us and get all the information that they need to get that started. 26:11.000 --> 26:18.000 Sometimes a new braille, regional braille challenge, regional just hosts the contest. 26:18.000 --> 26:23.000 And that's really what our primary goal is, is to offer Braille challenge to the students. 26:23.000 --> 26:36.000 And then maybe the next year they add parent workshops or they add, guest speakers or different aspects of the program or an award ceremony. 26:36.000 --> 26:39.000 There's different ways to add to the program each and every year. 26:41.000 --> 26:50.000 But the best way is just to reach out to us and we can talk about all the different ways that you can host Braille Challenge in your area. And Braille Institute. 26:50.000 --> 26:53.000 I mean, it's it's an organization that's been around for over 100. 26:53.000 --> 27:00.000 And what is it, 110 years? 106 we were founded in 1919. 106 I was close. 27:00.000 --> 27:03.000 And there's so many different things that Braille Institute 27:03.000 --> 27:04.000 Institute offers. 27:04.000 --> 27:17.000 So, it's a phenomenal organization, in the Los Angeles area and does so much and I mean, clearly it's been it's been the impetus of, of Braille challenge spreading all over the world. 27:17.000 --> 27:18.000 Hey, you know what, Peter? I just had a thought. 27:18.000 --> 27:22.000 Maybe, maybe all of us should try and do the project and test our knowledge. 27:22.000 --> 27:25.000 Yet after all these years and see how we go. 27:25.000 --> 27:27.000 Peter and I have talked about this. 27:27.000 --> 27:30.000 I like that, David. Let's go. 27:30.000 --> 27:32.000 Let's have a real challenge for adults. It'd be awesome. 27:32.000 --> 27:40.000 Have you ever thought about coming to an event, and doing an adult Braille challenge for funsies? 27:40.000 --> 27:42.000 Madeleine. Is that ever is that ever come up? 27:42.000 --> 27:49.000 I mean, is it something that, I mean, obviously it'd be for just, you know, or maybe do it for a charity or something like that. 27:49.000 --> 27:50.000 Has that ever been thought about? 27:50.000 --> 27:54.000 This is not the first time I've heard about an adult Braille challenge. 27:55.000 --> 27:59.000 People have reached out to us multiple times about their interest in that. 28:00.000 --> 28:01.000 It's not off the table. 28:01.000 --> 28:05.000 I think this is something that so many people would enjoy hearing about. 28:05.000 --> 28:12.000 I know our students, our youth students would get such a kick out of knowing that adults are doing Braille challenge like that in itself. 28:12.000 --> 28:15.000 Oh my goodness no. Imagine we put it on. We put it on Twitch. 28:15.000 --> 28:19.000 You know, it's like a Twitch thing and it's like a livestream. 28:19.000 --> 28:20.000 So it's a little different. 28:20.000 --> 28:23.000 Like we're being proctored in real time. 28:23.000 --> 28:25.000 I think is how you make it really funny. 28:25.000 --> 28:28.000 And it's in it's yeah, we're going to take this offline. 28:28.000 --> 28:29.000 I'm going to we're going to make this happen. 28:29.000 --> 28:33.000 It's going to be a lot of people we know from the field teachers. 28:33.000 --> 28:36.000 It could be, you know, many, many blind people. 28:36.000 --> 28:39.000 I think we need to do some we need to do some throw downs. 28:40.000 --> 28:41.000 It sounds like fun to me. 28:41.000 --> 28:44.000 Stay tuned world David, you've started a revolution. 28:44.000 --> 28:48.000 We're going to call it the David the David Woodbridge Adult Braille Challenge. 28:48.000 --> 28:50.000 Yeah, that's how we're doing it. 28:50.000 --> 28:59.000 Madeleine, thank you so much for joining and talking about Braille Challenge. And I'm looking forward to another awesome, you know, finals competition in LA. 28:59.000 --> 29:04.000 And I, I just really, really I'm happy you could come out and talk about this and spread the word. 29:04.000 --> 29:05.000 And I know you don't need the word spread. 29:05.000 --> 29:07.000 It's spreading very fast and far. 29:07.000 --> 29:10.000 But really appreciate your time and just coming on and talking about this. 29:11.000 --> 29:11.000 Yeah. 29:11.000 --> 29:18.000 Peter, thanks so much for having me and for participating in Braille Challenge and all the many ways that you've supported it. 29:18.000 --> 29:21.000 And we're proud of how far we've come in 25 years. 29:21.000 --> 29:24.000 And we look forward to many, many more years. 29:24.000 --> 29:25.000 So thank you. 29:25.000 --> 29:27.000 We will be there June 20th. What is it? 29:27.000 --> 29:30.000 Let me see. Hold on. 27th and 28th. Correct? 29:31.000 --> 29:33.000 Yeah. 26-27-28. 29:33.000 --> 29:36.000 We've added an extra day in celebration of our 25th. 29:36.000 --> 29:37.000 Awesome. 29:37.000 --> 29:38.000 And we will be in LA and 29:38.000 --> 29:41.000 HumanWare has provided Brailliant Displays for our winners. 29:41.000 --> 29:48.000 And that's certainly something we have have been part of for a long time and will continue to support Braille Challenge. 29:48.000 --> 29:51.000 And it's in its regions and it's different parts of the world. 29:51.000 --> 29:54.000 And certainly at our national finals. 29:55.000 --> 29:59.000 Welcome back to the cringeworthy part of the show. 29:59.000 --> 30:03.000 And this month, actually, David is live with us. 30:03.000 --> 30:03.000 He's always live with us. 30:03.000 --> 30:07.000 I don't think you ever got here, David, but you are in your home, correct? 30:08.000 --> 30:19.000 I am, and you've come back from a conference and you have a fresh, fresh, cringeworthy story that I think, we, we could go with, you actually have two of them. 30:19.000 --> 30:22.000 So you can actually take your pick on which one we go with. 30:22.000 --> 30:24.000 And I certainly have one as well. 30:24.000 --> 30:25.000 But David, what happened? 30:25.000 --> 30:28.000 What was going on, what was cringeworthy? 30:28.000 --> 30:30.000 I haven't had this happen to me for a very long, long, long time. 30:30.000 --> 30:34.000 So I got to the airport, as you do when you're flying back from somewhere. 30:35.000 --> 30:40.000 And I said, you know, I need meet and greet assistance from, you know, to check into the gate. 30:40.000 --> 30:43.000 So what turns up is a wheelchair. 30:43.000 --> 30:45.000 And I said, no, I'm blind. 30:45.000 --> 30:48.000 I don't have a physical disability. 30:48.000 --> 30:51.000 Oh no no no no no no, we need to put you in this wheelchair. 30:51.000 --> 30:53.000 But I don't need a wheelchair. 30:54.000 --> 30:55.000 Oh, no. 30:55.000 --> 30:57.000 But that's the only way that we can take you. 30:57.000 --> 31:02.000 So I thought my wife's in a wheelchair, so I'll just channel. 31:02.000 --> 31:04.000 I'll just get on my wife when she needs to walk long distances. 31:04.000 --> 31:07.000 So I got in there, went through security, 31:07.000 --> 31:10.000 I got out of the wheelchair, and then I say, can I walk to the gate? 31:10.000 --> 31:13.000 And they went, oh no, no, I've got a special buggy. 31:14.000 --> 31:17.000 You got the beepy cart. 31:19.000 --> 31:20.000 The beepy cart. 31:20.000 --> 31:25.000 But did, because it's such a long way, you you won't be able to walk that far. 31:25.000 --> 31:26.000 It's a buggy. 31:26.000 --> 31:31.000 And then when I got to the gate, they said, well, we'll try an organizer. 31:31.000 --> 31:33.000 You can go up the lift. And I thought, no. 31:33.000 --> 31:35.000 All right. Sorry. Sorry, guys. That's it. 31:35.000 --> 31:36.000 So I just said no. 31:36.000 --> 31:39.000 Look, honestly, guys, I put up with the wheelchair. 31:39.000 --> 31:40.000 I put up with the buggy. 31:40.000 --> 31:43.000 I am not going up the lift on. 31:43.000 --> 31:47.000 Quite capable of walking up 15 or whatever it is, 20 stairs. 31:47.000 --> 31:54.000 And then when I got to the stairs, there was somebody walking behind me and in front of me just to make sure that I didn't fall down. 31:54.000 --> 32:03.000 I think honestly, one of the hardest parts of it is sometimes it is so much easier just to say, okay, you know, I will get in the chair, I will get in the cart. 32:03.000 --> 32:07.000 Very rarely will I get in the chair, but I certainly have gotten in the cart. 32:07.000 --> 32:14.000 And mainly I get in the cart when there's like three other people and I realize I am not going to win and I just want to get where I need to go. 32:15.000 --> 32:24.000 As someone who uses an assistant, you know, so generally I do the same thing when I get to an airport, which I, I mean, many, I will ask for a gate assist. 32:24.000 --> 32:29.000 Now, some, you know, out there may use AIRA, may use other, other methods by getting through. 32:29.000 --> 32:32.000 My point has always been I'm here, I'm working. 32:32.000 --> 32:36.000 I have got to get from point A to point B, and let's face it, I want to go to the lounge. 32:36.000 --> 32:40.000 You know, I want to get in and it's going to be a lot quicker and more efficient with an assist. 32:40.000 --> 32:44.000 And so usually we can yeah, can talk our way out of it. 32:44.000 --> 32:47.000 But gosh you got like the quadruple whammy. 32:47.000 --> 32:50.000 Yeah I, I had one this month. 32:50.000 --> 33:01.000 So my routine with my daughter who is four is on Saturday mornings she and I will go to somewhere and she likes to go get donuts. 33:01.000 --> 33:03.000 So I end up taking her here. 33:03.000 --> 33:08.000 We have a very, very popular America Runs on Dunkin, which was Dunkin Donuts. 33:08.000 --> 33:09.000 And now you can't say Dunkin Donuts. 33:09.000 --> 33:11.000 It's just Dunkin at this point. 33:11.000 --> 33:14.000 But I take my daughter to Dunkin and the Dunkin. 33:14.000 --> 33:18.000 We go to is in a very large commuter train station. 33:18.000 --> 33:23.000 So I live in the middle of Chicago, and I don't we don't go to one kind of on a street corner and a shopping plaza. 33:23.000 --> 33:27.000 We go to one that's more in a food court in a big train station. 33:27.000 --> 33:30.000 Now, I have lived where I am for many, many years. 33:30.000 --> 33:36.000 I mean, I know my way around and but it's the city and there's always there's just always going to be random construction and things. 33:36.000 --> 33:40.000 So we're on the bus and we were about to get the donuts. 33:40.000 --> 33:51.000 We have this rhythm, and our rhythm was busted because we get off the bus and right away there's a fence, you know, at curb, basically get off the bus, you step down and it's before you hit the sidewalk, there is a fence. 33:51.000 --> 34:08.000 And I think, oh, no, this is not going to be, the easiest sort of traversing, but I but I mean, I've done this many times now, immediately the bus driver starts giving me and some other random person start giving me instructions, like, like I'm part of a video game, you know, they're like yelling left. 34:08.000 --> 34:10.000 I swear, I think one person yelled up. 34:10.000 --> 34:11.000 I don't know what that means. 34:13.000 --> 34:14.000 I didn't know if this would go up the fence. 34:14.000 --> 34:18.000 I didn't know, I mean, or they thought they got up, went straight like they were using a joystick. 34:18.000 --> 34:21.000 I don't know, but regardless to say 34:21.000 --> 34:24.000 I, I had asked, I said, you know, is there a along this? 34:24.000 --> 34:26.000 Generally when they put up a fence there's some scaffolding. 34:26.000 --> 34:29.000 Is there something I can walk along the, you know, along to avoid the cars? 34:29.000 --> 34:32.000 Do I have to walk. I can't get on the sidewalk. 34:32.000 --> 34:33.000 No. It's closed, it's closed. 34:33.000 --> 34:36.000 You have to go to the next block and cross over. So I said that's fine. 34:36.000 --> 34:38.000 And my daughter is more than used to my shenanigans. 34:38.000 --> 34:40.000 So she's just like, okay, let's go down. 34:40.000 --> 34:47.000 So, you know, as soon as we get to the to the sidewalk, I'm walking in the right direction. 34:47.000 --> 34:56.000 I know what we need to do, but the bus just starts kind of creeping along at a very slow, a very slow jaunt next to me. 34:56.000 --> 35:06.000 And I think this is the bus I just got off of, and I think, oh, no, this guy's watching. And now there is also, you know, when you're being watched, it's like it's going to happen. 35:06.000 --> 35:07.000 See this? 35:07.000 --> 35:09.000 I'm about to get more yelling. It's going to happen. 35:09.000 --> 35:10.000 And sure enough, 35:10.000 --> 35:13.000 I approached the corner where there happened to be more construction cones. 35:14.000 --> 35:18.000 And the next thing I know, the bus driver is out of the bus telling me that he will help me cross the street. 35:18.000 --> 35:21.000 I think the people who work at airports are being helpful. 35:22.000 --> 35:25.000 The people who want to assist you, they are genuinely being helpful. 35:26.000 --> 35:37.000 It's just sometimes they don't want to hear when you tell them you don't need it, or when you tell them you've got it and they watch you in the second you need to do some discovery, they're like see, see, see you don't know, you don't know. 35:37.000 --> 35:40.000 And then they try to jump in and that's where it gets tricky. 35:40.000 --> 35:45.000 Rachel what do you have generally you had this bus like creeping along and trying to follow you. 35:45.000 --> 35:54.000 I had somebody who was, take me back from an appointment and I said, okay, you know, my house is this color and there's these landmarks in front of it. 35:54.000 --> 35:58.000 And they pulled over and I could tell that it wasn't the right house. 35:58.000 --> 36:02.000 They didn't drive far enough down the street, and they were just like, I'm pretty sure it's in. 36:02.000 --> 36:03.000 Yeah. Okay. 36:03.000 --> 36:08.000 So I got out and got my GPS and I was like, okay, we're we're a block up and, you know, oh, no, I'm so sorry. 36:08.000 --> 36:10.000 Do you need me to drive you? You know, the block for it. 36:10.000 --> 36:13.000 I was like, no, not at all. I know where I am, I've got this. 36:13.000 --> 36:15.000 I'm walking along. It's a beautiful day. I could just tell. 36:15.000 --> 36:22.000 This car was slowly, slowly and long, slinking along is not is not leaving. 36:22.000 --> 36:27.000 Once I got to my house and I, was like, okay, verify that this was it. 36:27.000 --> 36:28.000 And he saw that. 36:28.000 --> 36:30.000 Then he sped up and went away. I was like, wow. 36:30.000 --> 36:38.000 He was, again, that that structured discovery that you were talking about was coming into play, and he wasn't quite sure about it. 36:38.000 --> 36:43.000 If you have a good story, feel free to send us a note podcast@humanware.com 36:44.000 --> 36:46.000 And I'm going to I think there needs to be a new slogan. 36:46.000 --> 36:48.000 It'll be keep on cringing. 36:50.000 --> 36:54.000 Welcome back to the Hot Take and this one. 36:54.000 --> 37:01.000 This month we have a topic that is near and dear to HumanWare's heart This is a HumanWare podcast. 37:01.000 --> 37:04.000 After all, we're in it to entertain and to be informative. 37:05.000 --> 37:13.000 But this topic is absolutely something that, you know, has been a part of HumanWare for, for decades. 37:13.000 --> 37:16.000 And that is the note taker. 37:17.000 --> 37:26.000 And what I think, you know, what I want to talk about is where we all see the relevance for or the usefulness of a note taker, and specifically a Braille note taker. 37:27.000 --> 37:32.000 Do we see the relevance and how do we kind of see that shifting? 37:32.000 --> 37:33.000 Certainly. 37:33.000 --> 37:45.000 There was a time when the note taker was invented or became a thing in the late 80s and really took off in the early 90s, where it simplified word processing for a Braille user. 37:46.000 --> 37:48.000 And at first it really was a just a Braille input. 37:48.000 --> 37:54.000 There was no braille output, really, a braille input device that allowed you to have word processing and organize some calendars and things. 37:54.000 --> 38:05.000 But it really served a, you know, a purpose to simplify mainstream operating systems that were not nearly as accessible as they as they could be over the years. 38:05.000 --> 38:14.000 You know, we've seen it change, and we definitely have seen the note taker evolve and turn into something that is, you know, more of a mainstream operating system. 38:14.000 --> 38:22.000 So if you look at what we are doing, you look at the HIMS or the HumanWare devices of today being, you know, mobile OS based. 38:22.000 --> 38:39.000 So Android based, we know that many, you know, sort of other devices have come and gone or even are still around that are more of a hybrid approach where they take an existing Braille display within, you know, what a screen reader or, and kind of have that host device, but have some internal basic notetaking functions. 38:39.000 --> 38:47.000 And David, I mean, you I'm assuming you've used and have have had access to note taker since since the beginning. 38:47.000 --> 38:50.000 Where have you seen them change and where do you think they'll go? 38:50.000 --> 38:57.000 I could definitely see them being relevant, like, you know, 45, maybe 40 years ago now. 38:57.000 --> 39:05.000 So because then there wasn't anything else available because we couldn't have really have good solid access to a computer. 39:06.000 --> 39:12.000 We needed some way of taking notes quickly and reading it back to live with, like, speech and then letter on Braille. 39:13.000 --> 39:25.000 And I think where things that have morphed to over the years is that, you know, we've now got a range of, you know, what we tend to call smart braille displays versus braille takers and where do you keep your data? 39:25.000 --> 39:44.000 And unfortunately, I think the word note taker has sort of turned into, rather than being a quite a flexible thing to actually be able to quote, take notes on, it's turned into a, oh, geez, this thing's a bit limited. You know, I when I compare this to my iPhone and my iPad and my Android tablet, 39:45.000 --> 39:48.000 I really don't know why I'm doing this. 39:48.000 --> 39:52.000 So I think it's gone from a positive thing to a slightly negative thing. 39:52.000 --> 40:00.000 And where I'd love to see it going is it's your laptop, it's your desktop, it's your mobile device. 40:00.000 --> 40:12.000 It's, you know, it's running the operating system that certainly everybody in the world uses, which is Windows, which I wish I wish it was a Mac, but I'm big enough and old enough to admit the fact that nobody really uses Mac anymore. 40:12.000 --> 40:15.000 That's not true. We have lots of passionate Mac users. 40:15.000 --> 40:17.000 They're going to come find you. Oh, thank goodness for that. 40:17.000 --> 40:19.000 Oh thank you. 40:19.000 --> 40:25.000 But I would just I mean where it's going I would love to see a laptop. 40:25.000 --> 40:30.000 That's not call that tech anymore a laptop that's got a Windows and a Braille display in it. 40:30.000 --> 40:33.000 I think today's note takers are the Android based ones. 40:33.000 --> 40:39.000 One of the the hardest pieces is that what you're doing on those products is limited to a mobile environment. 40:39.000 --> 40:51.000 Since I've started at HumanWare I started before the the advent of the Braille, the original Braille Note touch, it's been a it's been a wonderful thing to go to Android, an absolutely wonderful thing because we've been able to install mainstream applications. 40:51.000 --> 40:55.000 We've been able to do all of this and keep in mind in a Braille first way. 40:55.000 --> 40:59.000 So the note taker does give you that Braille first OS. 40:59.000 --> 41:09.000 Sometimes we're in front of folks and they say, you know, my kiddos, my users are going into senior year of high school and don't have good computer skills because all they want to use is their note taker, and that limits them. 41:09.000 --> 41:12.000 And I say, well, why would you let them only use their note taker? 41:12.000 --> 41:13.000 Don't do that. 41:13.000 --> 41:17.000 You know they need to be using screen readers. 41:17.000 --> 41:19.000 They need to be using mobile devices. 41:19.000 --> 41:20.000 They need to be using braille. 41:20.000 --> 41:23.000 They need to be using a wide array of tools. 41:24.000 --> 41:27.000 I'm not I mean, if you can, I'm sure you've had that sort of come up. 41:27.000 --> 41:38.000 Rachel, I would guess a lot that, you know, there are concentrations of blind folks maybe at blind schools or camps or something like that, and you hear them talking in there. 41:38.000 --> 41:40.000 They're very involved with the note taker. 41:40.000 --> 41:41.000 And I think that's fantastic. 41:41.000 --> 41:48.000 But I also caution teachers, young students, don't pigeonhole yourselves into I just use a note taker. 41:48.000 --> 41:51.000 I can run circles around you on my note taker. 41:51.000 --> 41:55.000 But if you put a computer in front of me, I have no idea what to do. 41:55.000 --> 41:57.000 And that's just a disservice. 41:57.000 --> 42:00.000 We never want to do a disservice to those that we serve. 42:00.000 --> 42:12.000 And I think note takers are, or whatever we want to call them, devices that allow us to take notes in a simple way and access what we need to that has a wonderful place for students. 42:12.000 --> 42:22.000 But there's also a place for braille displays, and we need to make sure that we're doing our best to transition our students to keep up in the, in the workforce and later schooling. 42:22.000 --> 42:30.000 Like some of the note taker infrastructure, the simplification of certain menus, some of that is very, very helpful. 42:30.000 --> 42:42.000 But I think when you're putting technology under the hands of a three year old, four year old, five year old, which is absolutely where you should be exposing blind kiddos to technology, you definitely want to start with some sort of controlled environment. 42:42.000 --> 42:47.000 I'm back to you guys about saying you know, you will you use whatever tool you got available. 42:47.000 --> 42:50.000 And the more tools you have, the more flexible you are. 42:50.000 --> 43:09.000 So even if you just say, well, thou shalt not ever use, a note taker, or I'll just use my Windows laptop or my Mac or my Android device or whatever else, and it doesn't matter what you're using if you're only using one device to get you through the world for school, university, or work, you're still limiting yourself. 43:09.000 --> 43:11.000 I picked the most appropriate tool at the time. 43:11.000 --> 43:17.000 You will always find that a certain task works best for your workflow with a certain device. 43:17.000 --> 43:20.000 I do still see the relevance of the note taker, and I definitely. 43:20.000 --> 43:22.000 I totally agree. 43:22.000 --> 43:45.000 And I think it's just a constant struggle and something that I'm glad we can touch on, especially HumanWare being synonymous with the Braille note, knowing that the current note taker, the braille note touch plus is something that as functional as it is, and as great as it is for math and for that Braille centric braille user to be productive, some of the mainstream productivity is becoming very difficult as that device ages. 43:45.000 --> 43:49.000 So we need to be thinking about what can we do, you know, how can we how can we pivot? 43:49.000 --> 43:53.000 And I think these are a lot of discussions that we've been having internally and certainly, 43:53.000 --> 43:57.000 I've been no stranger to say on different shows and podcasts and things 43:57.000 --> 43:59.000 I've been on. So I'm glad we could, glad we could touch on it. 44:01.000 --> 44:08.000 Welcome back to the Partner Corner segment everybody. In this month's we kind of float around the world. 44:08.000 --> 44:14.000 I know we've been to Canada, we've been to Australia, we have been to Europe, we've been in the Netherlands. 44:14.000 --> 44:15.000 We've been all over. 44:15.000 --> 44:21.000 We going to welcome Alan Davis, who is HumanWare's general manager of sales for UK and Ireland. 44:21.000 --> 44:22.000 How are you doing Alan? 44:22.000 --> 44:24.000 I'm very well, Peter, thank you for asking. 44:24.000 --> 44:27.000 I'm glad you're here because I think, you know, I've. 44:27.000 --> 44:29.000 I've been here ten years. You've been here? 44:29.000 --> 44:31.000 How long have you been at HumanWare Alan. 44:31.000 --> 44:32.000 Oh my goodness, it's a long time. 44:32.000 --> 44:35.000 So I joined when it was Pulse Data before the 44:35.000 --> 44:38.000 HumanWare company. 44:38.000 --> 44:40.000 It's now 24 years. It's my 24th year. 44:40.000 --> 44:42.000 That's awesome. You and you and Andrew. 44:42.000 --> 44:44.000 I think you're both at 24 years. 44:44.000 --> 44:46.000 Yes, I remember when he started. 44:46.000 --> 44:47.000 I feel like such a baby. 44:47.000 --> 44:50.000 Yeah, I feel so old. It's. 44:50.000 --> 44:53.000 We always joke on the podcast that David Woodbridge shows his age, but, 44:53.000 --> 45:10.000 I mean, for, for the long time human, we're employees and I think it it underscores is that a lot of people here, are here for a long time, and I can think of several I mean, our, you know, both on the UK team, and our team here in the U.S. and the, you know, at the corporate kind of level. 45:11.000 --> 45:17.000 A lot of people come here and it becomes, you know, become something they do for a very long time. 45:17.000 --> 45:20.000 It's more than simply a job, or a career. 45:20.000 --> 45:21.000 It really is a passion. 45:21.000 --> 45:23.000 How did you get into this space? 45:23.000 --> 45:29.000 Did you have any experience with blind people before or people who are visually impaired before this? No. 45:29.000 --> 45:31.000 So this was totally new to me. 45:31.000 --> 45:44.000 And, I was working, traveling a lot round to live in the Middle East, Scandinavia as well, in other parts of Europe, but a lot of traveling, starting a family, looking for a new challenge. 45:44.000 --> 45:49.000 I wasn't desperate to move, but I wanted one that would be more in contact with people. 45:49.000 --> 45:56.000 I was sitting in meetings in in Egypt for hours at a time, arguing over, you know, fractions of a percent, discounts. 45:56.000 --> 46:08.000 We had sometimes joined the B2B business and just wanted to get- yeah quite- and, as always, the phone negotiations were always just as you going back to the airport and you had a plane to catch. 46:08.000 --> 46:10.000 And so we are could I ask you? 46:10.000 --> 46:16.000 But, so I wanted to make a change and, this decision came verbal, which is fantastic. 46:16.000 --> 46:18.000 And and, you know, why am I still here? 46:18.000 --> 46:24.000 Well, we combines, you know, we do do some business to business, but we also do business to consumer. 46:24.000 --> 46:34.000 And we're dealing with people sometimes at five years old, up to 95 and above, you know, not many companies and businesses where, you know, you're involved with that range of customers. 46:35.000 --> 46:37.000 And they're all very, very different. 46:37.000 --> 46:39.000 And, you know, it appealed to me from day one. 46:39.000 --> 46:41.000 That is a job that would help. 46:41.000 --> 46:44.000 Would I be very satisfied with helping people? 46:44.000 --> 46:48.000 So and that's what it's proven to be 24 years later, you know, still here. 46:48.000 --> 46:49.000 Hopefully what we do each day helps people. 46:49.000 --> 46:52.000 We're here to make things easier and better, not harder. 46:52.000 --> 46:53.000 And worse. 46:53.000 --> 47:03.000 And I say it's a fantastic variety of people that we come into contact with, which is really great in the UK because we have this direct sales force. 47:03.000 --> 47:11.000 So it's rather a different setup to other parts of the HumanWare divisions and that we are going into people's homes, we go and see Mrs. 47:11.000 --> 47:15.000 Jones and we go into schools to see primary and secondary and universities. 47:15.000 --> 47:20.000 We go into the workplace to, to meet people in the work, with all different types of products. 47:20.000 --> 47:36.000 And, you know, it's very satisfying what we do and seeing these successes and over 24 years of seeing people through their schools and I've seen them when they go to works, I know you and, you know, it's really very satisfying that our technology makes a difference in their lives one way or another. 47:36.000 --> 47:38.000 That's very, very satisfying. 47:38.000 --> 47:41.000 And, you know, I say, well, looked after, 47:41.000 --> 47:50.000 I think what's interesting, and you bring it up about the direct, more direct sales channel, and kind of approach that the UK team has. 47:50.000 --> 47:53.000 And here in, in the US and certainly in kind of in 47:53.000 --> 48:00.000 North America, we tend to follow, a more distributor approach system and mainly it's geographic location. 48:00.000 --> 48:04.000 I mean, we can't I joke with Andrew one time he was like, why can't you just take a train to where you want to go? 48:04.000 --> 48:07.000 And I said, Andrew, it'd be like four days, man, I can't take a train. 48:08.000 --> 48:21.000 But, you know, geographically we have such a big area and I think that a lot of our sales, sales reps and kind of our general approaches to be very knowledgeable, but to also work through a large amount of highly knowledgeable distributors, 48:21.000 --> 48:37.000 I think, for your team with, you know, in the UK where that approach is more direct, you, you almost become extremely well rounded because like you said, you may work with a seven year old child or a 97 year old new to vision loss, somebody who just wants to read a book. 48:37.000 --> 48:49.000 And that, you know, that really must keep you on your toes and also keeps you very current with exactly what's going on on the ground, be it all across every spectrum of customer. 48:49.000 --> 48:51.000 Right? I mean, you have to really think on your feet. 48:51.000 --> 48:52.000 You're absolutely right. 48:52.000 --> 48:55.000 We have to be they, you know, adapt to different situations. 48:56.000 --> 49:11.000 And we have to train our staff well on knowing all our product portfolio, you know, so all trying to set level where we train them and update them regularly on all the new features, new benefits, make sure they understand how they can impact people and benefit people. 49:12.000 --> 49:16.000 So, staff are trained with six salespeople in, in the UK. 49:16.000 --> 49:17.000 They're so geographically based. 49:17.000 --> 49:19.000 And you're right be to we're very fortunate here. 49:19.000 --> 49:22.000 So relatively small country with a very high population. 49:22.000 --> 49:27.000 So we've got, you know, that sort of combination where we can reach people and there are people there to be reached. 49:28.000 --> 49:40.000 And, we also supported a very fortunate, a gentleman who's Martin Roberts on the podcast who's been with me for over 20 years, been he travels all around the country. He's blind. 49:40.000 --> 49:48.000 And he's also a sort of specialist on the road technology where we need that extra knowledge, that extra level of expertise. 49:49.000 --> 49:57.000 So Martin supports all our salespeople, you know, during the week, in those, where extra help is required. 49:58.000 --> 49:58.000 And we're very lucky. 49:58.000 --> 50:00.000 We've got a good support team, you know, 50:00.000 --> 50:03.000 I mean, trainers, we've got a support team, we've got technicians. 50:03.000 --> 50:09.000 So if technology does need repairing for whatever reason, you know, it comes back to our office here. 50:09.000 --> 50:11.000 We, technicians can repair all our products. 50:11.000 --> 50:21.000 The majority are HumanWare products, but we do support a couple of other third party products to to complement our range and we make sure that all our products can be repaired here. 50:21.000 --> 50:24.000 We don't have to send things back to Canada or, or elsewhere. 50:25.000 --> 50:28.000 So people are without the without their product for a minimum period of time. 50:28.000 --> 50:38.000 Hopefully what we can bring to the table here in the UK is that experience of being with those customers of all very different levels, needs, you know, we have that first hand experience. 50:38.000 --> 50:52.000 I mean, when we use our low vision products, I mean, we connect with selling hundreds of them in schools, but we only sell them because we go into the schools and we actually show it to the students and we show it to the support staff, the specialist teacher and the class teacher, the mum and dad. It's on there. 50:53.000 --> 50:58.000 You know, we're doing the hands on and we go and see someone else in the afternoon doing the same thing. 50:58.000 --> 51:01.000 So, you know, I think we are very fortunate in UK. 51:01.000 --> 51:05.000 We have that direct hands on knowledge of being with the end users. 51:05.000 --> 51:18.000 And, it's a- they have one thing in common, you know, that that level of varying levels of sight loss, but that, you know, very different individuals and have different needs for the technology that they use it. 51:18.000 --> 51:19.000 Well, fantastic. 51:19.000 --> 51:27.000 And thanks for just continuing to continuing to, to be a part of all of this, because I know it, you know, it's a long road, right. 51:27.000 --> 51:28.000 And we just keep going. 51:28.000 --> 51:32.000 And I know we have a lot of things, that are coming and that are around and that we continue to support on. 51:32.000 --> 51:36.000 So glad you could come on and we could kind of spotlight. 51:36.000 --> 51:37.000 You're not a traditional partner per se. 51:37.000 --> 51:40.000 You're a you're a HumanWare employee. 51:40.000 --> 51:42.000 You're you were more than a partner. You are a part of the fabric. 51:42.000 --> 51:44.000 It's in the blood, in the blood. 51:44.000 --> 51:45.000 So thank you for joining. 51:45.000 --> 51:49.000 And we, you know, we'll look forward to hopefully having other members of the UK team on. 51:49.000 --> 51:50.000 So thanks a ton, Alan. 51:50.000 --> 51:53.000 Thanks, Peter. Nice speaking to you. All the very best. 51:56.000 --> 51:57.000 Hey everybody. 51:57.000 --> 52:06.000 It's Peter Tucic from HumanWare and I am going to be demonstrating the all new pedestrian traffic signal detection feature that we have on the StellarTrek. 52:06.000 --> 52:08.000 I'm standing outside. 52:08.000 --> 52:16.000 It is a windy day, which is actually a great time to promote this feature because sometimes when it's windy, you cannot perfectly hear the parallel traffic. 52:16.000 --> 52:19.000 That may be indicative of a green light. 52:19.000 --> 52:31.000 So what I'm going to do is go for a little walk, and we're going to dive in and look at how we're going to use this data feature that is available for all StellarTrek users on our StellarTrek 52:31.000 --> 52:34.000 Let's go. 52:34.000 --> 52:41.000 All right, everyone, so I'm approaching the intersection of Taylor Street and Racine Avenue here in Little Italy in Chicago, passing my favorite corner. 52:43.000 --> 52:44.000 This is a good one. 52:44.000 --> 52:47.000 We have cigars, wine, pizza, coffee. 52:47.000 --> 52:50.000 Intersection four traffic light. 52:50.000 --> 52:53.000 West Taylor Street crossing south facing Avenue. 52:53.000 --> 52:55.000 So again, we get the announcement as the StellarTrek does. 52:55.000 --> 53:03.000 It tells me this is a lighted intersection and that we are going to be coming up to it. And, about 20, 30ft before we actually get here. 53:03.000 --> 53:13.000 Now, once I'm at this intersection, what I'm going to do and I know that site is red because I can tell my parallel traffic here, but I'm going to press and hold my up arrow on the StellarTrek 53:13.000 --> 53:16.000 And when I do that: Applications. 53:16.000 --> 53:18.000 Pedestrian crossing detection. 53:18.000 --> 53:24.000 The first, the first option here is pedestrian crossing detection. 53:24.000 --> 53:25.000 Again, this would be to look at the crosswalks. 53:25.000 --> 53:26.000 That's not what we're trying to do. 53:26.000 --> 53:29.000 And I'm going to press confirm on that option. 53:29.000 --> 53:30.000 Camera ready. 53:30.000 --> 53:36.000 And at this point it would be if I wanted to identify the zebra stripes on the street, which is not what I'm looking to do. 53:37.000 --> 53:40.000 What I can do, though, is if I press confirm. 53:40.000 --> 53:47.000 So again, we we can come into our pedestrian crossing feature and press confirm. 53:47.000 --> 53:51.000 And I will then receive a series of tones based off of the traffic lights. 53:51.000 --> 53:52.000 So I'm going to do that now. 53:52.000 --> 53:55.000 I'm going to press confirm detecting traffic signal. 53:55.000 --> 54:02.000 And what will happen is when I'm at this intersection and we will scan and upon scanning 54:03.000 --> 54:06.000 I will receive a series of tones again. 54:06.000 --> 54:08.000 And if I need to. And this is kind of. 54:08.000 --> 54:11.000 So we're going to get a green light detected message. 54:11.000 --> 54:14.000 And you'll hear that rapid tones, meaning that at this point 54:14.000 --> 54:15.000 I can cross the street. 54:15.000 --> 54:18.000 I also do hear my parallel traffic. So let's go across 54:19.000 --> 54:19.000 Now again. 54:19.000 --> 54:32.000 As I cross, I'm going to continue to receive this auditory feedback that is going to cue me in as to whether I'm crossing straight or if I am possibly veering to to get out of the intersection. 54:32.000 --> 54:35.000 Now that I'm cross again, we're going to cross this way as well. 54:35.000 --> 54:45.000 I'm going to turn and this time, instead of getting that, since I'm on this again, it's picking up the green light as I turn. 54:45.000 --> 54:51.000 Let's wait through this light cycle, though, and we're going to pick it up when it is parked at a red light so we can hear how that sounds. 54:53.000 --> 54:54.000 All right. 54:54.000 --> 54:55.000 So I'm back at the same intersection. 54:55.000 --> 54:58.000 And again this time I'm at a red light. 54:58.000 --> 55:06.000 And you will receive these incremental slow tones that are going to be indicative that they're telling me this light is red. 55:06.000 --> 55:12.000 I certainly can hear my parallel traffic is stopped next to me, and I definitely hear cars coming in front of me. 55:12.000 --> 55:13.000 So I know that as well. 55:13.000 --> 55:18.000 Again, this is a reinforcement of my existing skills. 55:18.000 --> 55:22.000 And now this light is turned and I can confirm that it has indeed turned. 55:22.000 --> 55:25.000 So I'm going across the street. 55:27.000 --> 55:33.000 Again, as I cross we're going to receive the feedback. And I just put that down. 55:33.000 --> 55:36.000 So I want it to know where the siren was that I'm hearing. 55:36.000 --> 55:38.000 But I can use that as I cross the street as well. 55:38.000 --> 55:41.000 I'm going across this one again, but we'll catch up later on. 55:43.000 --> 55:48.000 All right, everyone, I'm right back where I started, but I want to reiterate what we just went through because it might have been a little bit loud. 55:48.000 --> 55:51.000 And we certainly hear some kiddos playing in parks here. 55:51.000 --> 55:59.000 But what I was doing when I was at that intersection pressing Hold up arrow to get me into my applications area on the StellarTrek 56:00.000 --> 56:05.000 Once I was in that, the first option was pedestrian crossing detection. 56:05.000 --> 56:08.000 I press confirm, which is the center button between your arrow keys 56:08.000 --> 56:29.000 And once I was on the pedestrian crossing detection, I pressed confirm again to bring up the pedestrian traffic signal detection, where I could then hold my StellarTrek up, allow the cameras to see the intersection, and tell me via tones if that was, the, you know, that the signal was present or not, whether the light was green or red. 56:29.000 --> 56:33.000 Keep in mind, if I did veer, I would lose that tone so I would know I was starting to veer. 56:33.000 --> 56:48.000 Also, this is something that is going to be in beta, and we certainly want to collect a lot more data as we look at how this is going to be implemented, we are not able to be everywhere all the time and cannot test every intersection. 56:48.000 --> 56:51.000 So there will be some that maybe don't work as well or at all. 56:51.000 --> 56:58.000 And we'd love to be able to gather that information from all of your units as you use the product to help us build our models. 56:58.000 --> 57:05.000 Again, this is an entirely offline AI model that is being utilized to to run on, the units. 57:05.000 --> 57:06.000 If you do so, choose. 57:06.000 --> 57:09.000 You can share those units with us. 57:09.000 --> 57:15.000 You can share the pictures, we can have a look at them, and, and determine, you know, how that will help us build our model. 57:15.000 --> 57:21.000 But if you do not want to share your intersection photos and videos, you can certainly turn that off in settings. 57:21.000 --> 57:25.000 And we certainly respect your right to choose to do that. 57:25.000 --> 57:30.000 Let us know if there is, anything further that you would like to stay on the StellarTrek. 57:30.000 --> 57:36.000 You can certainly send us an email at info@humanware.com. 57:36.000 --> 57:36.000 Thanks everybody. 57:40.000 --> 57:44.000 All right everybody, it's time for the upcoming shows. 57:44.000 --> 57:48.000 It is the summer show season here in North America. 57:48.000 --> 57:57.000 We will be at the American Council of the Blind conference that will be taking place from July 4th to the 11th at the Hyatt Regency in Dallas. 57:57.000 --> 57:59.000 Please come see us. We'll be exhibiting. 57:59.000 --> 58:06.000 We also, Rachel will be giving some sessions and we would love to demonstrate lots of fun new things. 58:06.000 --> 58:13.000 There may even be a multiline screen reader demonstration available, so come say hello. 58:14.000 --> 58:18.000 We'll also be at the National Federation of the Blind conference taking place in New Orleans. 58:18.000 --> 58:22.000 That'll be at New Orleans Marriott, also at the Sheraton New Orleans. 58:22.000 --> 58:25.000 That'll take place from July 8th to the 13th. 58:26.000 --> 58:27.000 Again, we'll have a user group. 58:27.000 --> 58:29.000 We'll have a booth of fun. 58:29.000 --> 58:32.000 We will have demonstrations. 58:32.000 --> 58:36.000 And certainly there are many, many different ways we interact at all of those conferences. 58:36.000 --> 58:45.000 So come say hi to one of us who will be at the booth, and we look forward to seeing you at a table at a booth near you sooner than later. 58:45.000 --> 58:48.000 If you have comments or suggestions, we'd love to hear from you. 58:49.000 --> 58:52.000 Please send them to podcast@humanware.com. 58:52.000 --> 58:55.000 That's podcast@humanware.com 58:55.000 --> 58:58.000 Thanks so much for listening to See Things Differently. 58:58.000 --> 58:59.000 We'll see you next month.