Phil Rickaby: Hello, welcome to Stageworthy. I'm Phil Rickaby, the host and producer of this podcast. Stageworthy is Canada's theatre podcast, and on Stageworthy, I talk to theatre makers of all kinds, from actors to directors to playwrights. If they make theatre in Canada, I talk to them. Some of the people I talk to will be household names, and the rest are people that I really think you should get to know. If you're watching on YouTube, please make sure that you would hit the like button. Leave a comment so that I know that you were here. And if you like Stageworthy, hit that subscribe button and that bell icon so that anytime I put out a new episode, you'll get notified that a new episode is available. If you're listening to the audio version, please make sure that you're subscribed there too. Go to your favourite podcast app, search for Stageworthy, and hit the follow button. And while you're there, whether you're listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please consider leaving a rating and a review. Your ratings and reviews help new people to find the show, and it would be super amazing if you would do that. If you could leave a comment, tell the world what you like about Stageworthy, I would be super grateful. Speaking of gratitude, I have a Patreon. I'll talk a little bit more about that at the end of this show, which you should stick around to get a preview of who I'm talking to next week. So stick around until then. I'll talk a little bit about a Patreon before I get to that. But just know that the Patreon is there. And so if you want to join, go to patreon.com/stageworthy to become a patron. My guest this week is Peter Fernandes. Peter is an award-winning theatre creator based out of Toronto. He's currently a member of the company at the Shaw Festival, and also this year marks his directing debut as he directs Shaw Festival's production of Sleuth. Peter has been the host of last year's Dora Awards. He's an actor, singer. He's done so much. I think you're going to really like this conversation. So give it a listen. Here's my conversation with Peter Fernandes. If you need anything, you just have to let me take you through this interview. Wonderful. Peter Fernandes, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate you taking some time out of your day, even though, as you've just told me, you sprained your ankle. And so you are not, you had to miss, how many shows did you miss today?
Peter Fernandes: Oh, just one. Just one. Okay. Okay. Just one. We've got great understudies. We've got great understudies. So that's why they're there. That's why they're there.
Phil Rickaby: That is why they're there. And it's so hard for, especially if you ever started in like indie theatre, it's so hard to get your head around the idea of an understudy. Like, I did a production of Midsummer Night's Dream years ago where I have no memory of that show because I was feverish and like so sick. I should have been at home, but I was like, there's no understudy. I have to do it. And like, I don't remember that performance.
Peter Fernandes: No, no, no. Listen, especially in a company like Shaw, we have great understudies. We've all been understudies. We all understudied through the season. So you just trust that. It's still hard to kind of get out of your mind a little bit of just going, no, I have to perform. But hey, it's better to take care of yourself so you're not out for the rest of the season.
Phil Rickaby: Well, that's the thing, right? You take a few shows off and then you're able to continue on for the rest of the season rather than if you push yourself now, something else goes wrong. You are the director of Sleuth at the Shaw Festival.
Peter Fernandes: I know.
Phil Rickaby: And you've associate directed, assistant directed in the past. This is your first gig as a director.
Peter Fernandes: This is my debut. I thought I should start small at the Shaw Festival. Oh yeah, let's just start there.
Phil Rickaby: Well, tell me about Sleuth and let's get into why you chose this to be your directing debut.
Peter Fernandes: Okay, let's talk about Sleuth. Number one thing about Sleuth is it is a mystery. So I cannot tell you a lot about Sleuth because I want people to go in with as little knowledge as possible. Yes, I know this play has been around for a while. There have been two film adaptations of it. One very, very successful adaptation that a lot of people have seen. But still, there are people who have not seen it. And so for those people, I want you to go in with as little knowledge as possible. But what I can say is Sleuth is a mystery written by Anthony Schaffer in the early 70s. And it is about a mystery novelist named Andrew Wyke, who is kind of fading out in popularity, who invites a young man named Milo Tindall to his house in the English countryside. And over the course of the evening, plays a series of games with Milo. And this is not so much a spoiler because this happens in the first five minutes. You find out that Milo is Andrew's wife's lover and agrees to come to Andrew's house to gain permission to take his wife away. And so that is the essential tension of the story. But that's only the beginning. And I cannot say any more for risk of spoiling anything plot-wise.
Phil Rickaby: You know, it's funny about, you know, shows can be produced many times and they can be legendary. We can know things about them. And yet for someone, it's always their first time. It's their first contact with the material. I remember years ago, I was doing a production of Macbeth and I was like saying something about the end of Macbeth. And somebody that I went to school with, not theatre school, but like high school, was like, excuse me, spoilers. And I was like, this is over 500 years old. We're talking spoilers. But she didn't know the end. And so that's for me, that was- New people are born every day. New people are born every day. That's right. And like we, as people who are in the theatre, we know these things. We've studied the plays. We know them backwards and forwards. But for somebody, it's their first experience of the play, which is a magical thing. Of course, we don't want to spoil that.
Peter Fernandes: Yeah. Yeah. So that's, you know, I dance or whenever I talk about the show, I try to dance around it as much as possible. Even within the company, before it opened, I was trying to be pretty tight-lipped around people who weren't in the show.
Phil Rickaby: How did this show come to you as a directing debut?
Peter Fernandes: Oh, so unlike some of my recent projects where I've been pitching shows to folks, TC, Tim Carroll, the artistic director of the Shaw Festival, came to me with this proposition of directing Sleuth. So this must have been, you know, on his list of shows that he was interested in producing at the festival. And he decided to come to me with it. Now, the exact reasonings, I don't know. But here's what I can hypothesize. This is my fifth season at the Shaw. And at the Shaw Festival, they really support their performers or their ensemble members kind of really spreading their wings, their interests, and exploring their other ways that they relate to theatre. And so that was always encouraged. And a few years back, I was magic captain on Damn Yankees. And it was around that time that I had started expressing an interest in being more on the creative team of a production. And so when One Man, Two Governors was being programmed, I had pitched that I would be both a performer in the ensemble, but also one of the Neil Monroe directing interns that they take in every year. And they agreed. They agreed to that. And during my season, I was assistant director on two mysteries, Witness for the Prosecution and Sherlock Holmes and the Mystery of the Human Heart. And so I think that was probably the seed. He said, oh, he's assisted on mysteries. And I think with something like sleuth where it bends the genre, there are a lot of elements in sleuth that are outside of just the murder mystery that maybe speak to a more comedic lens. I thought maybe they were interested in my lens on that because I've been in primarily comedies at the Shaw Festival. So yeah, he said, do you want to be in One for the Pot and also direct sleuth? I was like, who's going to say no to that?
Phil Rickaby: As a debut, as a full director, as I mentioned, you've assisted, associated, directed in the past. What was going through your head as you were taking this in? They wanted you to direct. Is this something that you were, had you been seeking out full directorship or had you been like, yeah, yeah.
Peter Fernandes: I was, I was. It's hard to kind of balance the pursuits, but I was really interested in pursuing directing. All of last year after Fat Ham, I was one of the Metcalf Foundation, one of the Metcalf Foundation interns. And I had, I built a relationship with Crow's Theatre being mentored by Chris Abraham, really focusing on directing and artistic leadership and seeing if that continued to spark the interest that it had in previous year. And so I was really focusing in on that. I think Shaw and TC identified that. They saw that I was really trying to, to, you know, strengthen those muscles. What thought was in my head when it first came? It was, it was like 10 seconds of pure joy and excitement. And then every moment after that was terror. You know, it's like you get a project, you get excited about it. Oh yeah, this is great. Then imposter syndrome comes in, especially since it's my debut. I have nothing to kind of lean on that that would be, would have been tested prior to this. So I'd be testing out my method really and what I've learned and the tools that I had picked up here and there. I'd it would be at the Shaw Festival, a place that I love, a place a lot of people love. It would open the season. It would open the, reopen the courthouse. And so pure terror, which maybe just fueled, fueled the work. It just fueled the work. It was terror, but in the, in an exciting, an exciting terror.
Phil Rickaby: Were there, were there people that you consulted that you leaned on that you sort of like looked at or did you already have an idea of what your rehearsal room would look like?
Peter Fernandes: Uh, you know, Chris and I were spending a lot of time with each other, uh, around the time that I was offered the show. And so I really leaned on him. I really leaned on, on Chris and, uh, over the course of that year, from, from the moment I got it, I, it was really fortunate to be in rooms, whether I was assisting, uh, on works that he was working on or just being in the rooms of the other projects that were happening at Crows or in the new play development stream. Um, so I could, I could, I could see and kind of imagine what, what would be most useful for me and, and, and my voice for, for the room. But I think, I think heavily right now, it would be Chris's way of being in a room is what I was leaning on. Uh, I have a lot of other mentors that I've, that I love working with, uh, like Phil Bacon, uh, Neil, Neil Yakino, uh, Tim Carroll as well. Uh, and I, I was, you slowly pick up these tools and you go, Oh, maybe I wonder what it'd be like to try that in a room. I wonder, I wonder what it would be like to try that. And luckily, because you're, you're at a festival and you, and you have a relationship with some of the ensemble, you know, and a little bit of a longer process, you get to, you get to try multiple things. You know, if this is a shorter process, you'd probably have to just stick, stick to your guns a little bit, but, um, I was afforded time.
Phil Rickaby: A festival like Shaw does, like you said, it gives you a little bit more time than you would get in some other settings where, uh, you might have two to three weeks to work on a show you have, uh, a lot longer. Yeah. Um, uh, um, what kind of exploration of sleuth did you, did you do while you were like in that rehearsal process? Cause you're, in addition to directing, you're also rehearsing shows that you're acting in and like doing all kinds of different things. So how do you keep all of those things straight in your head?
Peter Fernandes: Oh, uh, luckily the schedule worked out in my favor that we didn't start repping the shows until, until tech, which is a stressful time anyway, but, but I could, you know, for the, for the bulk of the rehearsal, um, yeah, for the, for with any mystery. And I think with, with any comedy, with, with any magic and illusions, but especially with a mystery, it was, it was really about what are the facts that are in the text that the audience needs to know so that the mystery is actually a mystery. If they don't know what there's, if we don't give them the facts, lay down, uh, the, the given circumstances of what the mystery is, then any surprises down the line won't be surprises. And so there was a lot of just making sure that we knew what, what the, what the core mystery was, what, uh, what the diversions were from that, uh, was important. And because it's such a small cast, then after we've done that work, it's about playing within that. And, and how, how do we bring that element of surprise to other, to other facets of, of, of the show? And so I think that's where the, the playing really, where the playing lit right after just securing, okay, these are the things that they need to hear and they need to know in order for this, for the reveals to be potent. How do we then highlight this? How do we then, uh, shade in this area, uh, in our play?
Phil Rickaby: It occurs to me as you say that, that, um, magic is in many ways, the perfect setup for directing a mystery because magic is about controlling what people know, what they see and, and, and, and what they eventually have revealed. Um, how did, did your history of, of, of being a magic coordinator of magic in general play into your direction on this show?
Peter Fernandes: Okay. Okay. This is great because I'm kind of forming this now. Again, this is my debut. So it's, it's, it's all kind of coming together right now. And through the process, it's, it's revealing itself. Uh, like I said, if, if you don't know what the setup is, you don't know what the reveal is with any sort of illusion. Uh, you need to know what you're expected to think is going to happen before we subvert that expectation. If I don't show you an empty hand before I reveal a card, there is no magic there. Magic is about the subversion of expectation. And I think we really leaned in on that first sleuth, right? Even from, from, from everything, from performance to design, I really expressed to, to all the incredible designers on the team that we have to, we, the, the elements of surprise and play is paramount. And in order to do that, we need to make them believe that they're seeing one thing when it's really another, right? Uh, so yeah, it's tied in, in a, in a major way. And I would also say that that's true of, uh, comedy and the way that you, the way that we work in, uh, One for the Pot is that if comedy laughter comes out of something that is unexpected. And so there must be an expectation there. The joke must be set up well, the circumstances of the joke must be set up well in order for you to laugh at the subversion of the expectation. So they're all tied in mystery, comedy, magic. And I'm just, I'm just forming these thoughts right now, but, uh, it was, it was surprising and it shouldn't have been as surprising, but it was surprising how much my illusion work tied in to this show specifically.
Phil Rickaby: I mean, one thing, the next most logical question is how did you start in magic?
Peter Fernandes: I was thinking about this before I hopped on, cause I was trying to pinpoint exactly when I'm not like, I've always, I've always been interested in magic. I was one of the kids who had one of those magic sets and kids still receive magic sets now. Uh, and I, you know, when my family went to Vegas and I watched magic shows there, uh, and you know, I was a, I was a magic, magic hobbyist. Hobbyist, right? I was interested in how things, um, how, how illusions would work, how tricks would work, how sleight of hand would work. But when it came into my performance practice was hard to pinpoint because I know I had started using it when I was in High Park. I performed this Puck in Midsummer Night's Dream and Puck was a magician and I brought in magic for that. And then in my first season at Shaw for the Russian play, there was a moment in the show that I thought, Oh, it'd be great if I could make flowers and petals appear out of nowhere. And so I was using magic already by the time I had come into Shaw, but I think he was at the festival that, that really overlapped those two practices. So I was using it here. I was using it in our, in, you know, the, the internal kind of cabarets we were having inside here, um, over the, over the, the pandemic years in, in the things that we were creating and, and, uh, performing for Shawgrounds Fairgrounds, I was putting magic in there. And so that progressed to being magic captain on Damn Yankees, where I met my magic mentor, uh, Skylar Fox. Uh, he was an illusions. He was the illusions and magic designer on that show. And because he's such an incredible mentor, mentor and a generous person, he let me in on his process of designing illusions and magic for theatre. And so I got to peek into that world more, which isn't a huge world in Canadian theatre, uh, but way more so in commercial theatre. Uh, and so it was really exciting and inspiring to see that work. And through the support of both the Shaw and also the Philip Aiken Blackshoulders Legacy Award, uh, I received funding to pursue mentorship with Skylar. And that's when I feel like I really started to, to begin a practice in magic and illusions design. And so that was through that, um, help and through Skylar's mentorship, being able to follow Skylar, doing illusions for the Broadway transfer of Fat Ham, doing illusions for workshops in the UK. Uh, and you know, there, there, there are a few folks in, in the Canadian, um, industry that, that know that I do some magic and illusions design. So I've been able to design for Crows and design for, for the Shaw Festival as well. But I think it started here and it started with Skylar and damn Yankees.
Phil Rickaby: It's interesting how, you know, the, the, the industry has changed so much when I was at theatre school, uh, a very long time ago, they, they basically told us never do anything other than acting, never take on anything other than acting. Don't, don't, don't let anybody know you have any other talents. Don't do anything like that. It was just like, you are just an actor, which is so counter to the way that the industry works now, where everybody has to be, you have to be a hyphenate. Yes. Do everything. And it's, it's funny because that is a major shift. They were training us. They were like, you were going to finish this program and then you go to audition for Stratford or Shaw. You're going to hop back and forth, back and forth between those. And you are just going to be an actor. That's going to be your career. And that was essentially what, what I think they were setting us up for. But the, the, the need to do many things came after. And now, as you're saying, like you, you want people to know that you do magic coordination and illusion design. You want to know people to know that you direct, you want people to know that you're an actor, like all of these things feed into your career.
Peter Fernandes: And I think now, I think, you know, people who are coming out now, I don't know what it would be like to come out into the industry now. I've been, I've been, uh, out for, for a while now. So people coming out now, I, I, it's, it's not just, what are you able to do on stage, but what are you able to do to put work onto the stage? Like, that's so important, right? I think, I think it would have helped immensely. I see some, I see some incredible artists right now that I go, oh, it's so great that they, they started this indie company and they're learning all these things. Now, early on in their career, while they're having, while they're performing as well, that would have helped me so much in my first go as a director, right? In, in, in all, in all the work that I do, uh, for, for Crows or on the producing side, it's, it's, it's paramount to have indie producing experience, to, to dabble, just to dabble, to see what kind of sparks are there and not to just limit yourself, not, not to limit yourself. You can still be as committed to, uh, performance, but there's nothing wrong with, with seeing if something else lights that spark, because it all feeds, it all feeds into each other. And it's so beneficial for anybody who's coming out now, I think. For sure.
Phil Rickaby: I think that, I think that everybody who, who does many things is actually a fuller performer because of all of the things they, they do.
Peter Fernandes: Yes. Yes. I, I agree. I think, I hope, you know, that my directing practice is feeding into my acting practice and vice versa. And same with the illusion work, which is why, you know, that question about how do they, how do they overlap is, it's, it's really important. It's something that I'm forming right now. Yeah.
Phil Rickaby: Now you, uh, assisted or associate directed on Octet at, uh, at Crows. Yes. And I, you, you were working closely with Chris and you were like, uh, learning about, uh, uh, directing having worked on that show now knowing that it's going to be like a movie musical.
Peter Fernandes: No.
Phil Rickaby: What, what do you think about that as a, as a, like having seen the show, uh, like in its stage form, how do you see? Cause not every show works as a movie.
Peter Fernandes: I, I'm really excited. I'm really excited by it because it, I think people should know the show. I think it's a really great show. I think Dave Malloy is an incredible artist. Uh, you know, he's, he's the, the Sondheim of now. Right. And so with more people exposed to that show, uh, I think the more people exposed to that show, the better, the better. Is it, uh, is it like a tad bit ironic that this show is about our relationship to screens and then it's going to be on this big screen in front of us?
Phil Rickaby: Sure. But also eventually it will be on streaming and people will watch it on various sizes of screens.
Peter Fernandes: Yeah. They're just going to watch it on their Apple watch afterwards. Uh, but I think, listen, the, the, the message, the message will still be there. I think it'll, uh, in whatever way the message reaches folks, that's, that, that's good. That's good too. So I'm excited. I'm, I'm excited about it. It had no idea that that was going to happen right after, um, our production of it because it, it did feel like it was purely something that you, you hold, um, in the theatre, but I don't think a lot of people know about Octet and I would love people to know about Octet and if it's evident, if it creates more fans of Dave Malloy, amazing. If it creates more fans of theatre and musical theatre, incredible. I'm, I'm all for it. And then I get to, I get to, uh, uh, watch it a new, again, this new version of the show.
Phil Rickaby: I do think that like putting these things on screens, whether they are pro shots or, um, filmed versions, um, that give people the opportunity to see it. And you know what people love to do? They love to go see the things they already know. Like you, people will go see a band and they can, they get disappointed if that band doesn't play their favorite song. Well, if you go see a musical, you're going to hear all those songs you love that are part of that musical, you know, it's great. Yeah. Yeah.
Peter Fernandes: You know, we're, we're, we're, we're on this, this with, with pro shot. I love pro shots. I, I wish there were more of them. Um, it's always this fine line of going like, Oh, we'll take audiences away. Like we're, we're trying to bring audiences in. Will they just wait for the pro shop? But I think you're right in that people are gonna, if, if, if they like that, they're, they're going to keep coming to the show. I know, I know Hamilton is this, this it's own thing, but it's still running to very high percentages and touring and there's a movie out, right? Like the pro shot is out. So I think it's, it's okay. And as, uh, as a way to introduce people to more musical theatre, I think it's, it's important.
Phil Rickaby: Yeah. I agree. I think the thing that a pro shot does is because they're, it's, you know, during a show. And so you hear and experience the audiences, the audience's reaction. I think that somebody who, who, who, who's watching it for the first time might think, I wonder what it's like being in that room. I wonder what it's like here, which brings more people in. I think that, that we should pro shot everything personally.
Peter Fernandes: That'd be great. I mean, for my sake, I would out from wanting to watch the show in person.
Phil Rickaby: No, absolutely not. Um, you mentioned fat ham and, uh, uh, you, I believe were nominated for your work in fat ham at the same time that you were hosting the Dora awards. Is that correct? That is correct. How, how, how is that? I mean, hosting the Dora awards is a big deal. Being nominated for a Dora award in Toronto is a big thing. Uh, uh, how, how was it like doing both, like experiencing both?
Peter Fernandes: Truly. I was so grateful to be nominated for fan ham. I think it's a really special show. I love being a part of it. It's, it was this really, you know, special point in my career. I feel, uh, but remember that terror I was talking about, about directing for the first time. Yeah, that was, that was, that was just a smaller scale than hosting the doors. I think my thought and fear and anxiety around hosting the doors just kind of made me, made me be way more chill about being nominated. I mean, I don't, I don't even think I knew where I was when they were announcing that the recipient, I was just going, what's next? Oh my gosh. What am I doing next?
Phil Rickaby: I mean, I don't, you know, the, the pressure of having to hold the attention of the entire theatre community in the city.
Peter Fernandes: I don't have anything to lose. What do I have to gain? I don't have anything to lose. Oh, so you think you're a funny guy, Peter, huh? It's Stone Rock. It's, you know, it's great now to think back on it and go, oh yeah, it was so fun. People were having a great time. Oh goodness. But you can't, it's hard to think about that in the, in the moment, right? What I can say is that we have a, we have a really beautiful and supportive theatre community. And so I, you know, holding to that, uh, periodically through, through the night was important and, and feeling that love on stage was important. And it's just like a reminder that yes, there, sure, sure. You can't escape it. There's judgment out there. There's criticism out there, but there's a whole lot of love in the community as well. And there's a, there are people who have your back and there are people who, uh, want to see you succeed in the same way that you want to see them succeed. And that our community is full of that. It's hard to see that. It's hard to see that sometimes, but it's true. It's true. There are, there are supports out there. There are people who want, want you to flourish in the same way that you support them in the same way that you support them. And so for anybody who's hosting the doors going forward, just remember that.
Phil Rickaby: That's an important lesson. That's an important, an important lesson. An important message.
Peter Fernandes: Just remember that in the sea of artistic directors that are out there hoping that you say, or that, that the presenters say their company's names, there are, there's a, there's a sea of support and love out there as well. Okay.
Phil Rickaby: You were born in Bahrain, raised in Edmonton, trained in Alberta, and you built your career in Toronto and Toronto surrounds. How did each of those places shape the artist that you are now?
Peter Fernandes: You know, the community that I was, I'm, I'm half Filipino and in the communities, the Filipino communities I was in, you know, right, right from growing up, performance was a big part of, of the way that we connected, the way that we gathered, being around, but not, not, not even just a greater community, just a community of like family, right? We would, we would perform for each other. We would sing together. We would sing for each other. And so I think that's kind of where the seed was planted at first. And then I would say that because that's what I connected to as a way to connect to people, that whenever then I would move after that, you know, like going from Bahrain to, at first was Whitby, Ontario for, for a couple of years. And then from Whitby to Edmonton, at that age, you're, you're, you're, you're trying to make friends. You're trying to find, you're, you're trying to find your people. And what did I have that I connected to community? I, I had performing, I had singing as a way to express my voice both, you know, in the abstract and in the literal way. So that's kind of what I held on to. Moving around is hard as a, as a kid. And how do you find, how do you find the people that, how do you find that support? How do you find friends? How do you, how do you connect? And that's what I was going back to. I was just going back to, ah, oh, maybe, maybe if I, if I do this school play, ah, okay. These people also connect through this form. Oh, there's a person who's vulnerable entering this new school. We're all entering this vulnerable experience of doing theatre and being in front of other people. And I think at every stage, that was, that was the thing. And it, it, it kept growing. My love for it kept growing. And with new, with new moves, with new schools, with new environments, you kind of hold onto the thing that worked. And that's, that's kind of how it's influenced my journey, ah, to now. To now, it feels like at every point I was, that's what allowed me to, to connect to the community that I'm a part of now. Yeah.
Phil Rickaby: Was doing plays in school, your introduction to theatre, you know, I know that in, in the, the Filipino community, there's a lot of singing. There's a lot of, now every time there's a party, there's a lot of video, okay, ah, video karaoke, you know, that sort of stuff. But like, ah, at a certain point, you know, you go into, into school, was doing plays in school, your introduction to theatre?
Peter Fernandes: Yes. Yes, it was. And, ah, yeah, I mean, I guess that's it. Like, it, it was that. And then, you know, shortly after performing in plays, if we're, you know, my family, if we ever, we'd go on vacation, we'd go, oh, what are we going to do in this, this area? We'd go, oh, let's see if there's something to watch, because I, all, me and my siblings all enjoyed theatre. So we would, we would seek out theatre in other areas. And that's kind of what started, I mean, I, the, like, purest memory I have of going like, ah, yes, theatre, this is the thing, is when I was in the school production of The Wizard of Oz, I, I auditioned, I auditioned for The Tin Man, I really wanted to be The Tin Man. I was so nervous during the audition that I was, like, stammering, I was stuttering during the audition, and I was like a sweaty mess. And so they cast me as the Cowardly Lion, one of the alternating Cowardly Lions, and, again, made friends, built connections through that, fainted on stage, part of the show, part of the show, fainted on stage, made people laugh, and I went, ah, great, maybe I should just keep, I should keep doing this. Yeah, because then in my experiences after that, being a part of the audience, being part of the audience, oh, wow, those people are making me laugh, oh, those people are making me feel things, I think, all stemmed from, from being in school plays.
Phil Rickaby: Yeah, a lot of people, when they are doing, they're doing plays in the high school, in school, and they don't go on to make theatre their career, at what point did you decide that that was going to be the thing for you?
Peter Fernandes: Hmm, oh, that's hard to, that's hard to pinpoint. I would say, you know, I was really enjoying school plays, I was doing all the drama extracurriculars, the teachers were really into that, and I want approval, and so nothing kind of sparked my interest in the same way, and I had a really, really great drama teacher in high school, Vernce Lopez, who I still talk to today, and he was a new teacher who had come in to our school and had kind of brought back the school musical in earnest, right, like, was actually like, yeah, we're going to, we're going to do these, we're going to do, like, publish scripts, and we're going to go full out on them, and so seeing his passion for it, and seeing how he got that passion out of everybody else, I thought was really integral to me thinking that there was a career here, and Edmonton has a great arts community, and so I was doing, I was doing things at the Citadel, I was in their programs, Edmonton has a great fringe, and so being exposed to art in that way, so being exposed to all that, the passion that was in Vern, instilling passion in the drama classes I was in, seeing, being exposed to professional theatre at the Citadel, being exposed to indie theatre at the Fringe, you start building a picture of a career, and sure, like, it's a very limited picture, because you don't really know everything that goes into that, but you start going, oh, wow, look at all these people who are doing it, ah, there is a way, there is a way to do it, so I think it was probably, it was somewhere in high school, thanks to Vern, and thanks to my exposure to all that, and again, it's how I made friends, so positive association, those things, you go, ah, okay, this is, I can build a community, I can be a part of a community, I can, I see it in action, I see a variety of it in action, it is affecting me in a positive way, so why not, why not go for it? There was a great university program, and I know for my parents, anyway, that university, you can do whatever you want, it'd be great if you got a degree, it'd be great if you got a degree, and there was a great program at the University of Alberta, getting a Bachelor of Fine Arts, so it was like a perfect storm, I think, of experiences that went, yeah, this is, this feels, this feels right.
Phil Rickaby: So you went to U of A? Yeah. And you graduated there, and you, at what point did you go to Toronto? What drew you to Toronto as a place to start to really build your career?
Peter Fernandes: The Silver Academy, it was Silver that did it. I, you know, in the, in maybe not the back of my mind, maybe in the middle of my mind, while I was in Edmonton, I was thinking, I would like to explore what's happening in the rest of this country, and I think Toronto would be a great fit for that, Toronto is a very diverse place, and Edmonton was not as diverse as it is now. The community now is really diverse, and it's such a great community, and I miss it, and I see some of the work out there, and it's, it's amazing, and the incredible artists coming out of there. You know, it's grown to that point, but Toronto seemed like, oh, there's something there that I, that needs exploring, and the opportunity came up. At that point, they were doing auditions across the country for the, for the Academy, and so, yeah, I, I auditioned. I went through a whole weird process of not being in the same town as the, as the auditions, but like, traveling to another town to kind of audition for it, and it, it, it kind of worked out, and in 2013, I made the move. I made the move to start the Academy, and it was a two-year program, and it was from that point forward, I went, oh, okay, this is my, this is, this is my professional acting life now. I had done some professional work in, in Edmonton, and in, and in Winnipeg, but then it, it, it became more consistent when I came to Toronto, and was more recognized as, that I was a professional artist here.
Phil Rickaby: Two years is, is enough time to put down roots in a place. It is, it is, it is enough time to like, really sort of like, decide this is, this is my home now, whereas if you travel away to, for a theatre school, you're there for a few months, you go home in the summer. You don't really put down roots when you're at theatre school. Yeah. I think that the Soul Pepper Academy was like, intense for two years, and like, committed to.
Peter Fernandes: Yeah, and you get to know you, it's a way to get to know the community, right? You know, we were encouraged to see not only the work and the artists that are passing through the company, but because part of our Academy and, and the artists that were coming through were working at other institutions, it, it was a way to build a connection there, or to see and be exposed to that work. Again, and build, and build a community by going through, through that. You know, what, shortly after I arrived to Toronto, somebody who was in our Academy community introduced me to Philip Aiken, and Philip Aiken then said, hey, I'm running Obsidian, focusing on Black voices, Black stories, you're a new Black artist, my door's open. You know, so it, I would say like, coming into the, it's not just the time, but it was just where we were, and the artists that were passing through at that time, just building connections that way. Also, it was a brand new experience for me to be introduced to the festivals, right? Like, those are big, those are big things that I just didn't have any relationship to. I think you hear about it in, in Edmonton, of course, like, you know that they're, that they're these important institutions, but then you go, oh, right, right, we're in, we're in that community, we're, we're, we're there. All the artists, yeah, we're just in that big artist community, right? It kind of brought that to the, the forefront. You stop feeling a little bit like you're outside of, of things when, when you start, when you're connected to a theatre company. I wouldn't say that that is unique to just coming to Toronto. I think it, it just starts to happen when you start working for any theatre company, you go, oh, right, all right, I, I, I'm in the community. Like, oh, yes, I'm, right, this person that I, that I would watch growing up on stage is a, is an actor as well, and I'm an actor, we are actors. We're going to be performing together. So, yeah, that, that, that was kind of what was happening as I was getting more professional work in Toronto.
Phil Rickaby: Yeah. And Philip Aiken is such an important, his importance to Black theatre in this country is, is, is so, it's undeniable. He's, you know, as one of the founders of Obsidian and the artistic director for many years of Obsidian, when you say that his door is open, was open, his door was open.
Peter Fernandes: Oh my goodness. I, I, it's such a vivid memory. I couldn't, I couldn't believe, I couldn't believe, because he's so important to the theatre ecology, period. You know, like, yes, Black theatre in Canada, theatre, period. The fact that he's, that he was willing to, to be there should I need any guidance as somebody who's young and new to the city, and new in craft was really, was really important to my development. And so, and he's been important to me, you know, at really key points in my career, like from that moment forward, then being in like my first, you know, professional musical, like, or introducing me, like being able to do my favourite musical with, with him, and then to be reconnected at Fat Ham, the Philip Aiken Black Children's Legacy Award. Like, I go, wow, wow, these are, these are big pillars in my, in my career that I, that I owe to Philip.
Phil Rickaby: What a talented director too. I remember just being shattered by one of his, his, he directed Men in White a number of years ago at Beckery, which just, just shattered me, as I think it did everybody in the, in the audience. That takes a very careful hand. In terms of that move from, listen, when you were, you were mentioning about being in, in, in Alberta, in Edmonton at the time, and it was, it was so, shall we say, white. But you'd also been in Whitby, and I grew up in that, that area, which was also quite white at the time. Did, did, did, I mean, you mentioned it being, growing more diverse over time, but did, did being, did being Black in Edmonton impact, like, was, was there, was, were, how were people with you? Was it, were, were people overtly racist, things like that? Like, what was that, what was that like? Because I know my brother is, is Black, and he had a hard time in Ajax at the time.
Peter Fernandes: Mm-hmm. You do a lot of, you know, it's, it's, moving is hard. Moving is hard. And, and you're, you're, you're just trying to connect. And yes, I can't, I can't deny that. Yes, of course, there's racism. Of course, you're, you're kind of, I don't, you feel like you're kind of, like, at arm's length of the community, or that you're, you're kind of hiding part of yourself. I think that's kind of, on reflection, like, that's kind of what the, the major thread is. Because, like, there's the overt racism, there's the, the, the overt exclusion. And then when you look back, as I look back as an adult, and you go, wow, in my need to connect to a community that is primarily White, or that you kind of shield a little part of the, yourself, that you are afraid of, because of the overt things, afraid of distancing yourself from people. And then you do that for a little bit. You do that for longer. And then you go into, you go into more institutions that are primarily White. Then you get into even more communities that are White. And so then that becomes, that becomes the norm for you. And that it takes, it takes a lot of breaking out of that in your adult life to go, oh, right, it's okay to be this person in this room and in this community. It is okay to be that. I would say that, you know, theatre helped that. A lot of my, my bullies in junior high changed schools when I was in high school. So I stuck around in my high school. Right? So you have a little crack of going like, oh, I can be a little bit more of myself. But it's, it's hard when even as you're discovering more of yourself as an adult, you are still in predominantly White rooms and communities. Because then even as you're exploring that, you're still not really mining the part that you had done such a good job of hiding. So, you know, like a great, a great example of something that was really illuminating for me was being in the cast of Father Comes Home from the Wars. And that being for me, one of the first instances of being in a predominantly Black cast and going, oh, oh, right. This experience that I have is not detracting from the show. It is, it is integral to the show. And that is not just because this is a predominantly Black cast and this is a show about the Black experience. That is important in all rooms, but you have, it still takes time to kind of do that. Even now in my career, because you spend so much of your formative years growing up, they're just going, right. Oh, oh, oh, maybe that, oh, they don't connect to that, but I need to make friends and I need to make community. Let me, let me push this to the forefront. So it's an ongoing thing. And I'm sure that, that a lot of people in my position are experiencing that. You hope, you hope that, and this is what I hope to bring to, you know, my directing practice or any leadership capacity that I'm in, is that you hope to create an environment that allows people to not have to hide that. That, you know, you can be part of their journey of, of putting that forward more.
Phil Rickaby: Yeah. As you, you know, you're not, this is the sleuth returning to sleuth. It's your, your debut as a, as a director of a full show, like being, being the director of a show. Is there a show or is there like, how do you see your journey moving forward either with Shaw or other companies? Is that like, you want to continue doing the, the thing that you're doing now with being a director and acting? Is that, is that the trajectory you'd like to follow? Yeah.
Peter Fernandes: Yeah, I would. I would love that. And it's, it's a very, and I understand that that's very hard and sacrifices have to be made. I like right now I'm really focusing in on, on, on what's going to feed my directing practice just because it's newer. It needs nurturing. I, I am excited about building those strengths and, and learning from sleuth. It was such a incredible process. I feel like I was spoiled at sleuth because it was such an incredible process, but you know, there's always things that you can learn. And so I'm excited for the next opportunity to do that. If I was going to get like particular and granular, which I have no right being because I've only directed one show, you know, like I'll do anything. Please. I just don't know. I don't know. I don't know what I don't like. You know, I, I I've liked it so far. I don't know what I don't like just yet in terms of directing. Maybe there'll be projects where I can be more picky later. But if I was going to get granular, it was going to get granular. It's a comedy is really important to me. Comedy has been integral to my career. It has I, I've been, I've been building a career around comedy. And so I, I would like to continue that in my, in my directing work. I think sometimes most times people don't take comedy as serious as they should. But I think making somebody laugh and laughter is still vulnerable is still exposing some vulnerability and yeah, it's still exposing some vulnerability and we don't credit it with that. We don't credit the, the way that that vulnerability allows access to that person, allows that person to open up to new perspectives. And I know that that seems so up there, but I, I believe it. I believe it. I think laughter is important and I, I want to bring the same rigor that we bring to any other type of work into dramas, into comedy, which is why I respect Chris so much. Chris Abraham so much because he brings that rigor. He brings that expertise, that precision to comedic work and not at the expense, never at the expense of, of the enjoyment of comedy in the room. I think it's incredibly hard to, to do comedy for, for a lot of reasons, for there's an expectation of a response with comedy. There is an expectation of the process of putting a comedy out. So those are all things that I think are important that are still, that still demand rigor and precision. And sometimes it's not, I don't, I don't think we, we, we relate those two together. And I want, I, I want to continue that as a director.
Phil Rickaby: Yeah. Yeah. We do have this, this thing. I think, I don't know how, I don't know about anywhere else, but it does sometimes seem in, in, in the Toronto scene that we are not, we don't appreciate comedy quite as much as we should. We would like our, our theatre to be very important and very serious. And, and, and, but comedy is healing. Laughter is healing. And it's so important for all of us.
Peter Fernandes: I think comedy is in a lot of the things that we think are, should just remain serious. I think it's really important to find the comedy in those things. It's, it's Hamlet is funny. You know, there are, there are funny things in serious works. And sometimes we, even in those moments, we, we choose, no, no, no, no, that's not, that's not what it's about. I think it's important. I, I, I think it's important to any work. I read Sleuth and I thought it was funny and that's having that lens and building that lens and that ring around comedy is really important to me, to what I hope I get to direct in the future. But also I'll direct it all. I would say the musicals are, are, I, I, it's what got me into theatre as well. Like it was, you know, the school plays were musicals going out to see things. It was musicals. I love musicals. So give me a musical.
Phil Rickaby: I mean, the thing, I mean, musical is so huge and yet, and yet it feels like the thing that drew a lot of people into the theatre, right? Like those cast albums, doing the shows in school and that sort of thing. It's the thing that I think for a lot of people, I think that's where like your artistic soul kind of sings just like, just like there. Yeah.
Peter Fernandes: Yeah. It's, it's, it's literally, you know, it's, it's, it's the opening up of that voice, the, the expressions through dance. Those are vulnerable acts that, and those are, for musicals, we usually associate with being very accessible. And so you have this accessible form that allows for an incredible amount of vulnerability. What an incredible way to connect to an audience and community. So, you know, maybe I'm just, maybe I'm, I'm, I'm just aggravated sometimes to musical, musical isn't real art or whatever, or, or comedies, comedies are real art. I go like, what are you talking about? This is what, this is what people crave that. And there's, there's an amazing opportunity for vulnerability and change in those things. You know, take it as seriously as you take anything else and you've got, and, and, and what, what an incredible opportunity.
Phil Rickaby: Yeah, absolutely. I think though, I always, I always find it weird when people are like, Oh, musicals in a real theatre or a comedy is not real theatre. I'm like, what are you talking about? What are you talking about? It's like, people are like, well, you know, somebody, somebody, you know, they start to sing out of nowhere. I'm like, yeah.
Peter Fernandes: Yeah. I mean, so much of our work has, you watch a movie, there's a score. Where's that coming from? Where's that coming from? Oh, it's not so silly now. And also think, you know, it's, it's, it's, I don't, I want to advocate for, for all artists, obviously. And I think musical theatre performers really get a bad rap sometimes. And I think that is so unfair. It's so unfair that there's such a incredible ability that I think we should, we should stop that distinction so much. Yeah. A lot of forms of theatre. Yeah. Just blur the lines, blur the lines. Why are we trying to box people up anyway? Everybody's got to do everything now. I mean, that doesn't hurt anybody.
Phil Rickaby: That only makes everybody a better performer, a better, a better everything. So like, do a little bit of everything, like we were saying earlier. Exactly. Have a full circle. Exactly. Nice. Nice. It's like I planned it. Peter, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. Just thank you so much. Thank you for listening to Stageworthy. Before I get into who my guest is next week, I want to make sure that I talk about my Patreon. I can't make this show without the people who've chosen to back me on Patreon. It costs money to create a podcast. It costs money to have a website, to have a place to host your audio files so they can be sent out to all of the podcast listening places. Editing software costs money. Image creation software costs money. Transcripts cost money. And so I am so grateful to the people who are backing me on Patreon, because like I said, this show wouldn't exist without them. If you would like to become a part of the team, become one of the people who helps me to make this show, please consider becoming a patron. Go to patreon.com/stageworthy. Become a patron. Patrons get early access to episodes. We'll have some conversations about things that are happening in the theatre world. About things that are happening in the theatre world. And so I would love to have you I'd be so grateful if you would become a patron. Go to patreon.com/stageworthy and become a patron. My guest next week is Ryan McCollum. Ryan is a Toronto based content creator who runs the Plates and Playbills account on both Instagram and TikTok. It's a great conversation about what about being a theatre content creator, and just generally talking about theatre in the world. From someone who genuinely loves theatre and isn't a maker of it, which is always really interesting. So make sure you tune in next week on Stageworthy.