WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:05.000 Welcome back, everyone, to "Mysteries of the Mind," a true crime podcast hosted by myself, 00:05.000 --> 00:07.000 Daphne Saint Clair-- --and me, Preston Knight. 00:08.000 --> 00:11.000 Today, we're continuing our breakdown of the "Doctor Love" case. 00:11.000 --> 00:17.000 To recap, the case in question is very obscure, due to being covered up. 00:17.000 --> 00:19.000 But our favorite detective, Daphne... 00:19.000 --> 00:25.000 I managed to get my hands on the never before seen records, tapes, and juicy details. 00:25.000 --> 00:26.000 We're discussing Doctor 00:26.000 --> 00:28.000 Love, a.k.a. Doctor 00:28.000 --> 00:33.000 Burnett, who ran away with her patient, Hazel, back in the 1950s, whisking her away from a rural 00:33.000 --> 00:35.000 Philadelphia psychiatric hospital. 00:35.000 --> 00:47.000 Last time, on "Mysteries of the Mind," we covered the first sessions between Hazel and Doctor Burnett-- --and the start of their journey into a more focused care plan for Hazel-- and Doctor Burnett's suspicion of a misdiagnosis. 00:47.000 --> 00:52.000 Today, we go deeper into Hazel's psyche-- and the relationship of Doctor Love. 00:52.000 --> 00:54.000 Stay tuned. 01:10.000 --> 01:13.000 Maya Appavoo presents: Doctor Love. An audio drama. 01:14.000 --> 01:16.000 Episode Two: Building Trust. 01:18.000 --> 02:12.000 A full list of themes, topics, and content warnings can be found in the episode description. (Mindful Musings jingle) 02:12.000 --> 02:14.000 Mindful Musings... 02:18.000 --> 02:24.000 Alright, to kick things off, we've gathered up some comments from our devoted listeners, to do a little Q&A. 02:24.000 --> 02:27.000 This is a segment we like to call "Mindful Musings." 02:27.000 --> 02:33.000 We've got a collection of questions, concerns, and general musings from our community, so let's dive into it. 02:33.000 --> 02:36.000 Our first comment is actually a question for you, Daphne. 02:36.000 --> 02:37.000 Uh, Jared from our Patreon - 02:37.000 --> 02:42.000 Oh, hey guys, don't forget to sign up for our Patreon - uh said, "Hey, guys, love the show. 02:42.000 --> 02:46.000 I was wondering about how Daphne got these records. 02:46.000 --> 02:50.000 Uh, she said last episode that the kids of a deceased asylum board member gave them to her. 02:51.000 --> 02:54.000 Uh, can you clarify why they had them and were able to give them to you? 02:54.000 --> 03:04.000 Yeah, absolutely, so my understanding is that the people I spoke to were-were one of the uh, board members kids, and it was basically stuff the guy had put in a box in the attic. 03:05.000 --> 03:11.000 They didn't know much about the case, their dad hadn't spoken much about it, I guess, so it was just sort of a box of forgotten files. 03:12.000 --> 03:16.000 My guess is he probably didn't talk much about it because he was trying to make sure it stayed quiet. 03:16.000 --> 03:17.000 Yeah, and I think they were sort of, um, 03:18.000 --> 03:23.000 I think they sort of knew a bit because they were really hesitant to give it to me, but, you know, me. 03:23.000 --> 03:25.000 All I had to do was turn on the charm. 03:25.000 --> 03:27.000 Well, Jared, hope that answers your question. 03:28.000 --> 03:38.000 Our next comment is from @Ijustwokeupfromanap, who says, "I love that you guys don't over-edit your show, it feels much more authentic." 03:38.000 --> 03:40.000 Aw, thank you! 03:40.000 --> 03:41.000 Yeah, thanks. 03:41.000 --> 03:45.000 You know, we tend to find that our editing style is a little more human. More conversational. 03:45.000 --> 03:50.000 Yeah. Oh, which, like, it isn't to say that people who edit more heavily than us are doing something wrong. 03:50.000 --> 03:53.000 Oh, of course not. You know, but, but, I think our style works for us. 03:53.000 --> 03:54.000 You know, it feels more... 03:54.000 --> 03:57.000 I think it feels like people can connect with us more. Oh, I agree. 03:58.000 --> 04:02.000 Uh, anyways, last question from Tree, also from our Patreon. 04:02.000 --> 04:06.000 Uh, "What does research on something like this look like for you guys?" 04:06.000 --> 04:06.000 Well, 04:06.000 --> 04:16.000 I don't want to speak for Preston, but on my end, it's going through as much of the original case materials as I can, then as many secondary sources as I can, and then trying to put the pieces together myself. 04:17.000 --> 04:23.000 I have gone through a lot of paper and yarn for this show, trying to put my thoughts together. (giggles) 04:23.000 --> 04:24.000 Uh, Preston? 04:24.000 --> 04:26.000 Uh, well, I think it depends. 04:27.000 --> 04:30.000 Obviously, I have a bit of general knowledge on psychology. 04:30.000 --> 04:37.000 Uh, you know, I'm listening to this stuff for the first time as Daphne is exploring it with all of us, so there's not, um, you know, a lot-a lot of research 04:37.000 --> 04:39.000 I'm doing ahead of time for episodes. 04:39.000 --> 04:42.000 Unless it's a topic we've discussed ahead of time-- Like attachment styles. 04:42.000 --> 04:44.000 Right, right, like attachment styles. 04:44.000 --> 04:55.000 So, you know, my-my process, (clears throat) for the last week has been, you know, uh, doing the reading, you know, um, finding, um, papers, and studies, and journals, um... 04:56.000 --> 04:57.000 Cool. Interesting. 04:57.000 --> 04:58.000 Yeah. 04:58.000 --> 05:10.000 Anyway, thanks so much to our patrons and listeners for submitting comments and questions. (Mindful Musings jingle) 05:10.000 --> 05:12.000 Mindful Musings... 05:15.000 --> 05:22.000 So, on the topic of attachment styles, before we get into the new stuff for this week, what do you think of Hazel's attachment style? 05:22.000 --> 05:24.000 Uh, so based on what we listened to last week? 05:24.000 --> 05:25.000 Yeah. 05:25.000 --> 05:29.000 Well, well, I mean, you know, I wasn't listening to those recordings with attachment styles in mind. 05:29.000 --> 05:31.000 Of course. So I'm not sure. 05:31.000 --> 05:39.000 You know, it's been a week since we listened to it, but I could say for sure that I don't think Hazel had a secure attachment style. 05:39.000 --> 05:47.000 So, just for the audience here, can you give a little more context on what attachment styles are, what they can, uh, what they help us understand? All that good stuff? 05:48.000 --> 05:48.000 Yeah. 05:48.000 --> 05:55.000 So, attachment style theory is-is basically how we, you know, form attachments and how we react to threats to those attachments. 05:55.000 --> 05:59.000 Uh, so there's four types, anxious, avoidant, disorganized, and secure. 06:00.000 --> 06:10.000 Uh, you know, someone with a secure attachment isn't really afraid of abandonment, uh, whereas the other types are afraid of abandonment and use unhealthy coping mechanisms, you know, to deal with that fear. 06:10.000 --> 06:17.000 And so today, as we get into more of Hazel and Doctor Burnett's story, you'll be giving us your insights on Hazel's attachment style? 06:17.000 --> 06:18.000 Cool. 06:18.000 --> 06:21.000 So, before we get into the next session recording, 06:21.000 --> 06:30.000 I wanted to discuss (flipping pages) Hazel's late husband, in a bit more detail, just to help give more context. (page flipping) Oh. Here it is. 06:30.000 --> 06:31.000 Hazel's late husband, 06:31.000 --> 06:38.000 Charles Edward Finley, born 1920, died in WWII in 1944, at the age of 24. Mmh, yeah. 06:38.000 --> 06:39.000 There isn't a lot in the materials 06:39.000 --> 06:41.000 I was given about Hazel and Charles. 06:41.000 --> 06:49.000 My guess is the letters between them and stories about them are all in the hands of their families, who have not responded to any messages from us as of yet. 06:49.000 --> 06:55.000 Um, but, we know that he was the one who committed her to the asylum shortly before he was deployed. 06:55.000 --> 06:59.000 We also know he was the only one who wrote to her once she was committed. 06:59.000 --> 07:06.000 Again, we don't have copies of these letters, but we do have Hazel's journals. (page flipping) "Charlie sent a letter. 07:06.000 --> 07:08.000 It took me a long time to open and read it. 07:08.000 --> 07:12.000 These days, he talks about dirt and blood and going hungry. 07:12.000 --> 07:20.000 We both knew war would be hard, but I hate thinking of him out there, away from home, scared and alone and cold and famished. 07:20.000 --> 07:21.000 And I'm angry at him. 07:21.000 --> 07:25.000 He's been away, fighting for freedom, but he's the one who put me here. 07:26.000 --> 07:31.000 When the war is over, and my country is celebrating, who will he be watching the fireworks with?" 07:32.000 --> 07:33.000 Oh, that's a fascinating passage. 07:34.000 --> 07:41.000 It is. That speaks to an anger, you know, I think that maybe stems from fear that Hazel harbored against her husband. 07:41.000 --> 07:42.000 Yeah, 07:42.000 --> 07:49.000 I mean, I would totally be upset if my spouse basically imprisoned me and then went off to fight for the freedom of others. 07:49.000 --> 07:54.000 But, what I think is interesting here is that she doesn't actually seem worried about him. 07:54.000 --> 08:04.000 No. And, you know, she clearly doesn't like the thought of him in the trenches, but, you know, she doesn't seem concerned about him, like-like, but- but again, I wonder if her anger here stemmed from fear. 08:04.000 --> 08:09.000 Like, she doesn't sound concerned, but that doesn't mean she isn't concerned. 08:09.000 --> 08:13.000 Like-like covering up fear and worry with anger is a common coping mechanism. 08:14.000 --> 08:14.000 That's... yeah, that's interesting. 08:16.000 --> 08:29.000 Um, but yeah, uh, so I thought that would be good context, especially because we're about to get into the next part of Hazel and Doctor Burnett's relationship, where Doctor Burnett has tons more time to commit to Hazel's care. 08:29.000 --> 08:30.000 Shall we get into it? 08:30.000 --> 08:32.000 We shall. (click) 08:33.000 --> 08:38.000 Well, we have a few more minutes, is there anything else you'd like to talk about? 08:38.000 --> 08:40.000 We still have time? 08:40.000 --> 08:42.000 I thought I was keeping you late. No, 08:42.000 --> 08:49.000 I transferred a lot of my caseload, so we have extra time, now. (sniffles) Thank you. 08:49.000 --> 08:50.000 Hazel, 08:50.000 --> 08:54.000 It's-- No, really, thank you very much. 08:55.000 --> 08:58.000 This is the most effort someone's put into trying to take care of me. 08:58.000 --> 09:00.000 Thank you, thank you. Hazel, 09:00.000 --> 09:05.000 I was happy to do it. (Hazel sniffles) 09:06.000 --> 09:09.000 You deserve good care, Hazel. 09:09.000 --> 09:11.000 You deserve to feel cared for. 09:11.000 --> 09:13.000 Thank you. 09:13.000 --> 09:16.000 Nobody can make progress until they're cared for. 09:16.000 --> 09:20.000 You need to have your needs met, and to feel comfortable. 09:20.000 --> 09:26.000 Otherwise, the issues you're experiencing will be increasingly hard and overwhelming to tackle. 09:26.000 --> 09:28.000 Thank you. 09:28.000 --> 09:29.000 You're more than welcome, 09:29.000 --> 09:33.000 Hazel. Can I put in any requests for food or blankets on your way out? 09:34.000 --> 09:35.000 No, I'm all right. 09:36.000 --> 09:38.000 Thank you, again. (sniffles) 09:39.000 --> 09:41.000 Have a good afternoon, 09:41.000 --> 09:49.000 Hazel. (click) (clears throat) All righty, welcome back, everyone. 09:49.000 --> 09:52.000 So, that was a pretty short clip, but what do you think so far? 09:52.000 --> 09:54.000 About attachment styles? Mhm. 09:54.000 --> 10:12.000 Well, you know, so far this all feels pretty indicative of an anxious attachment style. Now, now people with anxious attachments are easy to describe as clingy or demanding in their relationships, uh, but, of course, this is rooted in a deep fear of abandonment and, you know, a need for control. 10:13.000 --> 10:19.000 You know, so far we've seen Hazel throw a glass at a wall when she perceived a relationship as being threatened. 10:19.000 --> 10:23.000 And she's deeply concerned with expressing gratitude to Doctor Burnett. 10:23.000 --> 10:28.000 It's almost like she's trying to give Doctor Burnett a reason to need her too. 10:28.000 --> 10:31.000 Really? You know, it's either that or borderline personality disorder. 10:31.000 --> 10:36.000 Which is also characterized by a deep fear of abandonment and can also lead to meltdowns. 10:37.000 --> 10:41.000 Ah, but, you know, Daphne, go ahead and give your thoughts. (couch squeaks) I think this clip is just the start of Doctor 10:41.000 --> 10:43.000 Burnett really falling for Hazel. 10:43.000 --> 10:55.000 I mean, she's so attentive and caring, and she's really trying to reassure Hazel that she's there for her. And, okay, yes, that's her job, but I've never had any medical professional ask me if I could use a blanket. 10:56.000 --> 11:01.000 To me, that seems like Doctor Burnett's attempt to show affection in whatever way she can. Hmmm. 11:01.000 --> 11:02.000 Okay, okay, let me show you. (pages flipping) 11:02.000 --> 11:04.000 Is this going to be another journal entry? 11:04.000 --> 11:05.000 A few actually. 11:06.000 --> 11:08.000 Oh here it is. 11:09.000 --> 11:17.000 First, I'm going to read you a passage about another patient. "Daisy demonstrates an above-average level of intelligence, and her episodes seem to be rooted in boredom. 11:17.000 --> 11:20.000 More enrichment required before increasing dosage." 11:20.000 --> 11:20.000 Okay, 11:20.000 --> 11:24.000 Daisy is a patient that Doctor Burnett handed off to another doctor in the facility. 11:24.000 --> 11:37.000 So compare that to how she speaks about Hazel. "In my conversations with Hazel, she demonstrates an incredible amount of compassion, and desire for connection, and expresses feeling a disconnect from others. 11:37.000 --> 11:44.000 Not only is this not a symptom of schizophrenia, but in my opinion, it is a symptom of fear and loneliness. 11:44.000 --> 11:47.000 Continuing caseload hand off to assure further care for Hazel." 11:48.000 --> 11:50.000 See? It's different. 11:50.000 --> 11:52.000 Oh, I, you know, I don't doubt it's different. 11:52.000 --> 11:55.000 Like, I mean, we know they did run away together. 11:55.000 --> 11:58.000 But I think Doctor Burnett was just offering a blanket. 11:58.000 --> 12:00.000 I think that-- I mean, Doctor Burnett mentions 12:00.000 --> 12:02.000 Hazel's fear and desire for connection. 12:03.000 --> 12:03.000 You know, 12:03.000 --> 12:10.000 I think it's entirely possible that she recognized that Hazel needed a feeling of security and safety, you know, and was catering to it. 12:10.000 --> 12:12.000 You know what, she said herself that she wanted to make sure 12:12.000 --> 12:14.000 Hazel's needs were met so she could improve. 12:14.000 --> 12:15.000 And? Then, obviously, you know, 12:15.000 --> 12:21.000 Doctor Burnett got a little carried away eventually. (laughing together) 12:22.000 --> 12:35.000 Okay, getting us back on track a little here, let's listen to the next clip. (click) (Hazel sips water) It's been two weeks now since we took you off your meds. 12:35.000 --> 12:37.000 How are you feeling? 12:38.000 --> 12:39.000 Not much different. 12:41.000 --> 12:43.000 Any withdrawal symptoms? 12:45.000 --> 12:46.000 I don't think so. 12:47.000 --> 12:50.000 I'm having fewer headaches and dizzy spells. 12:51.000 --> 12:54.000 You were having headaches and dizzy spells? 12:55.000 --> 12:57.000 Yes. Minor ones though. 13:00.000 --> 13:13.000 Well, those are common side effects of the medications you were on... (flipping pages) but I don't see any indication of headaches or dizziness in your chart or in your notes. 13:15.000 --> 13:20.000 Hazel, why didn't you tell us you were having headaches and dizzy spells? 13:22.000 --> 13:25.000 It's important we have a good overview of what's troubling you. 13:27.000 --> 13:30.000 Is there a reason you didn't indicate any side effects? 13:31.000 --> 13:34.000 Did Doctor Green ever ask you about adverse effects? 13:36.000 --> 13:37.000 No. 13:38.000 --> 13:41.000 Mhm. Okay. 13:42.000 --> 13:42.000 That's okay. 13:42.000 --> 13:44.000 That's not your fault. 13:45.000 --> 13:47.000 Hazel, 13:47.000 --> 13:48.000 I'm asking you right now, 13:48.000 --> 13:54.000 If I ever add anything to your regimen and you feel any adverse effects, 13:54.000 --> 13:55.000 I want you to tell me, 13:56.000 --> 13:57.000 Okay? 13:58.000 --> 13:59.000 I don't want to trouble you. 14:01.000 --> 14:04.000 You're not troubling me, you're helping me do my job. 14:05.000 --> 14:09.000 I'm here to help you, to make sure you feel better. 14:11.000 --> 14:12.000 Do you feel at home here? 14:14.000 --> 14:15.000 I don't know. 14:15.000 --> 14:17.000 I don't think so. 14:19.000 --> 14:20.000 Okay. 14:20.000 --> 14:23.000 Is there anything uncomfortable about your room? 14:25.000 --> 14:26.000 I don't know. 14:28.000 --> 14:31.000 If you think of something, let me know. 14:31.000 --> 14:34.000 You live here, it should be comfortable. 14:36.000 --> 14:39.000 I can't help you if I don't know what's hurting you. 14:40.000 --> 14:43.000 So if there's anything even a little bit off, 14:44.000 --> 14:51.000 I want you to tell me, Hazel. (shaky breath) Thank you. (click) 14:51.000 --> 14:58.000 Okay, so that was from right after Doctor Burnett initiated a med review and transferred a bunch of her caseload. 14:58.000 --> 15:01.000 So now we're going to listen-- uh, we're going to skip ahead a couple a sess-- a session-- 15:01.000 --> 15:02.000 Oh, my gosh. 15:02.000 --> 15:05.000 We're going to skip ahead a couple months and listen to another session. (click) 15:07.000 --> 15:09.000 Did you hear what I asked, 15:09.000 --> 15:11.000 Hazel? (Hazel picks at her plastic cup) 15:11.000 --> 15:13.000 Hm? Sorry. 15:14.000 --> 15:18.000 Are you feeling okay? (Hazel continues picking at her plastic cup) 15:18.000 --> 15:21.000 They're using different oats for the oatmeal now. 15:21.000 --> 15:23.000 I don't like the texture. 15:24.000 --> 15:27.000 Okay. (Hazel continues picking at her cup) 15:27.000 --> 15:28.000 How are you feeling? 15:29.000 --> 15:34.000 I know this must be a tough time of year for you. (Hazel continues picking at her cup) 15:34.000 --> 15:35.000 These oats get too mushy. 15:36.000 --> 15:38.000 They soak up too much water. 15:39.000 --> 15:42.000 Mhm. Is that affecting your mood? 15:44.000 --> 15:46.000 No. (Hazel continues picking at her cup) 15:47.000 --> 15:49.000 My morning just feels unfinished now. 15:50.000 --> 15:59.000 I didn't eat most of my breakfast, and then I didn't want to change because I wear my nightshirt until I'm done breakfast, but I didn't finish breakfast, so I didn't know if I should change-- 15:59.000 --> 16:01.000 Are the oats the only reason you didn't finish your breakfast? 16:03.000 --> 16:09.000 Nurse Amelia noted you didn't eat your fruit either. (Hazel continues picking at her cup) 16:11.000 --> 16:13.000 I didn't want to eat mushy fruit. 16:15.000 --> 16:17.000 The fruit... 16:18.000 --> 16:20.000 Hazel, are you hungry? 16:22.000 --> 16:23.000 No. 16:25.000 --> 16:27.000 Are you having trouble waking up in the mornings? 16:30.000 --> 16:31.000 I don't know. 16:31.000 --> 16:33.000 Maybe. 16:34.000 --> 16:37.000 Everything feels mushy and gray. 16:37.000 --> 16:40.000 Like the oatmeal. (Hazel continues picking at her cup) 16:40.000 --> 16:42.000 Okay. 16:43.000 --> 16:49.000 Are the oats affecting your mood? (clears throat) 16:50.000 --> 16:54.000 I don't see a point sometimes. (Hazel continues picking at her cup) 16:54.000 --> 16:56.000 A point to what? 16:57.000 --> 16:59.000 To you trying to help me. 16:59.000 --> 17:01.000 To trying to get better. 17:02.000 --> 17:05.000 I'm going to be stuck here for the rest of my life. 17:06.000 --> 17:11.000 I don't know what I'm supposed to be trying for. (Doctor Burnett writes something down) 17:11.000 --> 17:13.000 It sounds like you're feeling a little depressed. 17:15.000 --> 17:18.000 Is that accurate? (Hazel stops picking at her plastic cup) 17:21.000 --> 17:21.000 Maybe. 17:21.000 --> 17:24.000 Is there a reason you didn't want to talk about it? 17:25.000 --> 17:27.000 I don't want to go back on the pills I was on before. 17:29.000 --> 17:33.000 It had been... a long time since I had a day without a headache. 17:34.000 --> 17:38.000 Or where I was able to stand up without getting lightheaded. 17:39.000 --> 17:41.000 I don't want to go back. 17:41.000 --> 17:43.000 We won't put you back on those medications, 17:44.000 --> 17:45.000 I promise. 17:45.000 --> 17:49.000 If you don't want them, you don't have to have them. 17:50.000 --> 17:53.000 Do you trust me to take care of you? 17:53.000 --> 17:54.000 Yes. 17:55.000 --> 17:58.000 Let's try a morning walk, shall we? 17:58.000 --> 18:00.000 Really? Yes. 18:01.000 --> 18:03.000 Sunlight might be good for you. 18:03.000 --> 18:07.000 I'll have Nurse Amelia take you tomorrow after your breakfast. 18:08.000 --> 18:10.000 Alright. 18:10.000 --> 18:11.000 I'll be good. 18:11.000 --> 18:13.000 I know you will. 18:14.000 --> 18:16.000 Thank you. (click) 18:16.000 --> 18:20.000 Okay, uh, you know, I want to update my attachment style theory. 18:20.000 --> 18:21.000 Go for it. 18:21.000 --> 18:24.000 I think maybe she's presenting more of an avoidant attachment style. 18:24.000 --> 18:25.000 You know, she's shutting out 18:25.000 --> 18:31.000 Doctor Burnett in an attempt to prevent the development of an attachment, you know, because she doesn't want to rely on someone else. 18:31.000 --> 18:33.000 Could it also be trauma related? 18:33.000 --> 18:36.000 Like, with Doctor Green having been so dismissive? 18:36.000 --> 18:45.000 Well, I mean, all insecure attachment styles, you know, stem from some sort of trauma, you know, usually childhood neglect, but a more recent trauma can certainly exacerbate it. 18:46.000 --> 18:49.000 Um, so you have more details about what happened with Doctor Green, right? 18:49.000 --> 18:50.000 Not much. (clicking) 18:51.000 --> 18:55.000 Most of what I was given is stuff that the asylum’s board tried to bury that-- 18:55.000 --> 18:58.000 And they weren't overly concerned with Doctor Green, so... 18:59.000 --> 19:04.000 I only really got stuff that's relevant to Doctor Burnett's treatment of Hazel. 19:04.000 --> 19:08.000 So the final chart he handed over to her, and like, some of his notes. 19:09.000 --> 19:13.000 Yeah, there’s not much here from Doctor Green himself. 19:13.000 --> 19:15.000 We've kind of already been over his stuff. 19:16.000 --> 19:19.000 But, there are notes from Doctor Burnett that mention 19:19.000 --> 19:21.000 Hazel's thoughts on Doctor Green. 19:22.000 --> 19:26.000 Um, "Hazel seems hesitant to share when something is bothersome. 19:26.000 --> 19:35.000 It is apparent to me that she does not expect her doctor to take those concerns seriously." (click) "Hazel voiced a pleasant surprise at my attempt to help her. 19:35.000 --> 19:38.000 When asked why, she said that she was anticipating a denial. 19:39.000 --> 19:42.000 She holds the belief that when I'm told about one of her symptoms, 19:42.000 --> 19:43.000 I will tell her she's wrong." 19:44.000 --> 19:46.000 Ugh, yeah, there's a bunch of little notes like that. Yeah, 19:46.000 --> 19:52.000 It sounds like Doctor Green was, you know, neglectful, uh, to put it nicefuly. 19:52.000 --> 19:53.000 It does. 19:53.000 --> 19:58.000 You know, it only makes sense that Hazel would be so hesitant to tell Doctor Burnett what's going on with her. 19:58.000 --> 20:00.000 You know, based on those notes, 20:00.000 --> 20:02.000 I think it's very possible 20:02.000 --> 20:04.000 Doctor Green exacerbated 20:04.000 --> 20:07.000 Hazel's struggles with an avoidant attachment style. 20:07.000 --> 20:09.000 You know, if I'm being honest. 20:09.000 --> 20:12.000 Hazel is displaying symptoms of abuse trauma. 20:12.000 --> 20:16.000 You know, I kind of wonder if Doctor Green was maybe... Doing something worse? 20:16.000 --> 20:17.000 Perhaps, yeah, you know? 20:17.000 --> 20:19.000 I mean, this looks like a trauma response to me. 20:20.000 --> 20:22.000 You know, the way she's so wary of Doctor Burnett. 20:22.000 --> 20:25.000 Well, you want me to play the next clip, so you can get a little more insight? Yes. 20:25.000 --> 20:28.000 Okay, so this next clip is from another month or two later. (click) 20:30.000 --> 20:33.000 Have you eaten since our last session? 20:34.000 --> 20:35.000 No. 20:36.000 --> 20:39.000 Are the oats still bothering you? 20:39.000 --> 20:41.000 I don't know. 20:41.000 --> 20:42.000 Maybe. 20:42.000 --> 20:45.000 When was the last time you got out of bed? 20:48.000 --> 20:50.000 I don't know. 20:50.000 --> 20:54.000 Nurse Amelia says she hasn't seen you move in three days. 20:56.000 --> 21:03.000 Hazel, it's possible she missed you moving, she's not monitoring you around the clock. 21:04.000 --> 21:05.000 Hazel? 21:05.000 --> 21:06.000 She didn't miss it. 21:08.000 --> 21:09.000 I'm sorry. 21:09.000 --> 21:10.000 What are you sorry for? 21:10.000 --> 21:12.000 I didn't want to-- 21:13.000 --> 21:15.000 I don't mean to waste your time. 21:15.000 --> 21:17.000 You're not wasting my time. 21:18.000 --> 21:19.000 Am I wasting yours? 21:21.000 --> 21:23.000 No. I'm glad. 21:25.000 --> 21:26.000 Are you hungry? 21:26.000 --> 21:28.000 Do you need to use the restroom? 21:28.000 --> 21:30.000 I don't know. 21:30.000 --> 21:32.000 I can't. Can't? 21:34.000 --> 21:37.000 Aren't you ever just so tired, 21:37.000 --> 21:39.000 Doctor Burnett? 21:39.000 --> 21:42.000 You have to feed yourself three times a day. 21:43.000 --> 21:46.000 You have to go to the bathroom every time you drink a glass of water. 21:46.000 --> 21:49.000 You have to brush your teeth and floss twice a day. 21:50.000 --> 21:55.000 You have to shower and wash your hair, then dry your hair, and you have to be standing that whole time. 21:57.000 --> 22:01.000 It's just... so much upkeep. 22:02.000 --> 22:06.000 And at the end of it all, I'm still... here. 22:08.000 --> 22:10.000 Alone. 22:12.000 --> 22:13.000 I hear you. 22:14.000 --> 22:16.000 You're not alone. 22:16.000 --> 22:17.000 I'm here. 22:18.000 --> 22:23.000 But I know you're lonely, and I'm sorry. 22:26.000 --> 22:27.000 I'm worried about you, 22:27.000 --> 22:29.000 Hazel. 22:29.000 --> 22:37.000 What's happening to you right now, not eating, not using the restroom, that's... not normal. 22:39.000 --> 22:46.000 I think we should think about trying something like a low dose antidepressant. 22:46.000 --> 22:57.000 No. No. No, I won't. (crying) 22:58.000 --> 23:00.000 Okay, we don't have to-- Please leave. 23:03.000 --> 23:05.000 I'm sorry. 23:05.000 --> 23:08.000 Thank you, but... That's okay, 23:08.000 --> 23:10.000 Hazel. 23:10.000 --> 23:20.000 I'll leave you for now. (click) (clears throat) Okay, uh, last update, uh, to my attachment style theory, 23:20.000 --> 23:24.000 I think Hazel has a disorganized attachment style. 23:24.000 --> 23:32.000 You know, so a disorganized attachment style is characterized by both wanting intimacy and, you know, like, deeply fearing it. 23:32.000 --> 23:40.000 You know, which seems to be what Hazel is doing, and also, I think, is why I thought she was anxious and then avoidant. (Daphne laughs) 23:40.000 --> 23:44.000 Hazel is very much afraid of being vulnerable with Doctor Burnett. 23:44.000 --> 23:48.000 You know, she's afraid to be honest about what's bothering her. 23:48.000 --> 23:53.000 She's afraid Doctor Burnett will dismiss her or deny her care. 23:53.000 --> 23:56.000 But, clearly, Hazel wants Doctor 23:56.000 --> 23:57.000 Burnett's company and care. 23:57.000 --> 24:02.000 You know, she had a total meltdown when another patient pulled her away from a session. 24:02.000 --> 24:03.000 You know, and she does answer 24:03.000 --> 24:09.000 Doctor Burnett's questions, that's right, but, like, you know, she clearly doesn't want to make her job more difficult than it has to be. 24:09.000 --> 24:12.000 But then Hazel will apologize for being difficult. 24:12.000 --> 24:15.000 You know, it seems very... disorganized. 24:15.000 --> 24:16.000 Well, that makes sense. 24:16.000 --> 24:21.000 I also think it probably does have to do with what you said earlier about trauma responses. 24:22.000 --> 24:24.000 The way she apologizes for wasting 24:24.000 --> 24:26.000 Doctor Burnett's time, for example, I was like-- 24:26.000 --> 24:27.000 Yes, I completely agree. 24:27.000 --> 24:34.000 I think Hazel must have felt so surprised that Doctor Burnett was so committed to listening to her and taking her concerns seriously. 24:34.000 --> 24:41.000 Like, that, Doctor Burnett was giving her some agency with her medical care, in a way it doesn't seem like a doctor had given her before. 24:41.000 --> 24:49.000 That must have been, like, surprising, but then also very nice and comforting to be seen like that for, like, the first time. Mmm. 24:49.000 --> 24:50.000 If it's all right with you, 24:50.000 --> 24:53.000 I'd like to read Doctor Burnett's notes from this session with Hazel. 24:53.000 --> 24:55.000 Okay. (flipping papers) Medical terms... 24:55.000 --> 25:01.000 Medication names... Oh, okay, here it is. "Hazel's case is very complicated. 25:01.000 --> 25:11.000 Here is a woman who spent adult-- whose entire adulthood has been spent isolated from anyone but doctors and nurses, who's been misdiagnosed, dismissed and ignored. 25:11.000 --> 25:21.000 Meanwhile, she is dealing with moderate-to-severe depression, moderate anxiety, dysfunction, and dysregulation on a pathological level, and there seems to be no diagnosis 25:21.000 --> 25:23.000 I am aware of that encompasses all of this. 25:24.000 --> 25:29.000 I don't know how any doctor with an average caseload could provide Hazel with the proper care. 25:31.000 --> 25:34.000 I am sure there is a solution. 25:34.000 --> 25:35.000 That is science. 25:35.000 --> 25:37.000 That is medicine. 25:37.000 --> 25:40.000 We experiment and find answers. 25:40.000 --> 25:48.000 There is something I can do for Hazel, and I will find it, if it takes my whole career." 25:48.000 --> 25:49.000 Interesting. 25:49.000 --> 25:54.000 I think it speaks to Doctor Burnett's dedication - no, devotion, even - to Hazel. 25:54.000 --> 25:54.000 Yeah. 25:54.000 --> 25:55.000 Yeah, I, I could see that. 25:55.000 --> 25:56.000 Okay, here. 25:56.000 --> 26:01.000 I have one last clip for today, and then we'll wrap it up. (click) 26:04.000 --> 26:04.000 Alright, 26:04.000 --> 26:06.000 Hazel, let's get started. 26:07.000 --> 26:08.000 How are you feeling today? 26:09.000 --> 26:12.000 I've noticed you're sitting up in bed. 26:13.000 --> 26:15.000 I suppose a little bit different. 26:15.000 --> 26:17.000 Better? 26:17.000 --> 26:18.000 I don't know. 26:19.000 --> 26:21.000 Do you want to try something to feel better? 26:22.000 --> 26:26.000 I can get some food to you, or we could go for a walk around the wing. 26:28.000 --> 26:29.000 No. 26:31.000 --> 26:35.000 I feel sick. (Doctor Burnett takes notes) Are you feeling feverish? 26:35.000 --> 26:37.000 Nauseated? 26:37.000 --> 26:38.000 No, no. 26:40.000 --> 26:41.000 There's something broken in me. 26:42.000 --> 26:43.000 Hazel, 26:43.000 --> 26:46.000 I've met a lot of patients like you. 26:47.000 --> 26:49.000 Nobody was ever broken. 26:50.000 --> 26:51.000 You are not the first. 26:53.000 --> 26:55.000 What did you do to fix them? 26:55.000 --> 26:57.000 Well, a lot of things. 26:58.000 --> 27:02.000 Exercise and sunlight helps most people. 27:02.000 --> 27:03.000 And... 27:04.000 --> 27:04.000 Pills? 27:04.000 --> 27:06.000 Yes. Pills. 27:07.000 --> 27:12.000 They're no different than when you take medicine for a fever, or an infection. 27:12.000 --> 27:16.000 I'm scared they'll just make me sick in a different way. 27:16.000 --> 27:25.000 Hazel, I promise you, if you don't feel better after two weeks on new medication, we will take you off of it and try something else. 27:27.000 --> 27:29.000 My job is to help you feel better. 27:30.000 --> 27:39.000 I have no interest in keeping you on a treatment regimen that doesn't do that. (sniffles) 27:40.000 --> 27:43.000 All right. Yes. 27:44.000 --> 27:46.000 Thank you. Oh, come here, 27:46.000 --> 27:58.000 Hazel. (Doctor Burnett hugs Hazel) (Hazel cries softly) 27:58.000 --> 27:59.000 Thank you, too. 28:01.000 --> 28:02.000 What for? 28:02.000 --> 28:04.000 For trusting me. (click) 28:05.000 --> 28:09.000 For those who didn't quite catch it, at the end of that clip there, Doctor 28:09.000 --> 28:10.000 Burnett is hugging Hazel. 28:11.000 --> 28:13.000 I think that's a very sweet moment. 28:13.000 --> 28:14.000 I agree. Yeah. 28:14.000 --> 28:23.000 You know, I think it's very heartwarming that Doctor Burnett was able to get through to Hazel like that, you know, and that Hazel was able to trust her, you know, with her care. 28:23.000 --> 28:25.000 Yes, and 28:25.000 --> 28:36.000 I think that moment where Doctor Burnett says thank you to Hazel is so, uh, profound. To me, that really seems like the first moment where they establish a firm connection, and-- 28:36.000 --> 28:37.000 Oh yeah, for sure. 28:37.000 --> 28:41.000 And they've built up some trust, and they're able to express it and lean on it. 28:41.000 --> 28:44.000 Oh, it's so cute. 28:46.000 --> 28:51.000 Anyway, that is it for us this week on "Mysteries of the Mind." 28:51.000 --> 28:56.000 Join us next week as we..? We'll be getting into the start of Hazel and Doctor Burnett's actual relationship. 28:56.000 --> 29:00.000 Oh, which means we're getting closer to them running away together! 29:00.000 --> 29:01.000 Exactly. 29:01.000 --> 29:08.000 So again, join us here next week for even more of Hazel and Doctor Burnett's story, exclusively here on "Mysteries of the Mind." 29:08.000 --> 29:13.000 I'm Preston Knight, our psychology nerd-- and I'm Daphne St. Clair, our hopeless romantic. 29:13.000 --> 29:15.000 Thank you for tuning in, and we'll see you next week. 29:15.000 --> 29:16.000 Bye! 29:29.000 --> 29:35.000 Doctor Love is written and directed by Maya Appavoo and produced by Maya Appavoo and Monica Gate. 29:35.000 --> 29:38.000 Starring the voice acting talents of Madeline Harsh as Daphne, 29:38.000 --> 29:39.000 Jacob Martin as Preston, 29:39.000 --> 29:43.000 Abby McDougall as Doctor Burnett, and Emily Lizotte as Hazel. 29:44.000 --> 29:46.000 Post-production management by Monica Gate. 29:46.000 --> 29:50.000 Sound design for this episode by Ace Luke, and music by Ken Kosowick. 29:50.000 --> 29:58.000 The full list of credits and disclaimers can be found in the episode description, or on our website: appoova.ca/portfolio/doctorlove 30:00.000 --> 30:04.000 Follow us on social media! We are @doctorlovepod on everything. 30:05.000 --> 30:08.000 Doctor Love is supported by the Edmonton Arts Council, and the City of Edmonton. 30:09.000 --> 30:10.000 Thank you for listening.