I'm Jason from Smoking and Drinking in Space, a Scifi podcast from a couple of guys who think they know Scifi. And I'm Rob from Smoking and Drinking in Capes, a superhero podcast from a couple of guys who wish they had powers. And we're part of the guinea geek network. Just like the show you're checking out now, shows on the network are individually owned and opinions expressed may not reflect others. And you can find other cool, awesome geeky. Joes@gunnegeeknetwork.com.
Chris: And welcome to Play Comics, where once again, we are here looking at a video game based on a comic property and how well that game represents the source material. Today I am here again with a repeat guest that I haven't had on for way too long. It's the return of Blair Farrell. Blair, how are you today?
Blair: I'm great. Thanks for having me back. Yeah, it's been a spell.
Chris: I'm so excited to have you back for looking at a Catwoman game that is not based on that HalleBerry movie that I will eventually have to watch.
Blair: I think I watched it on TV once while I was doing something else and I think that's the extent of it. But I have finished the PS two game.
Chris: I'm sorry.
Blair: Yeah, it's pretty terrible.
Chris: Thankfully, we get to talk about a different catwoman today. We are talking about the Catwoman game for Game Boy Color, which came out in 90, 99. So Blair, what was it about this game that made you want to come talk Catwoman with me today?
Blair: Well, I remember seeing ads for this in life, Nintendo Powers. I actually I've been watching a series, greg Stewart from the Playerborne podcast. He has a YouTube channel on Generation 16 and he's doing a bunch of let's read videos from the magazine team work with. And one of the ads that I keep seeing is like Chemco games. It's like this and like Top Gear and a few other things. And I think it was Chemco and radical entertainment, I'm going to say. And it was one of those weird oddities where it's like, why Catwoman and why this time? Because, I mean, like, Batman wasn't really big. I'm gonna say in 1999, like, I think the animated series had maybe ended in transition to Batman Beyond. Like Batman and Robin was 1998. So it's such a weird thing where just like, I guess they have this license because I was going to look it up because Chemco did the Batman Beyond game. But I think it was also taken over by Ubisoft. So there's a story there somewhere that I find fascinating that's probably more fascinating than the game itself.
Chris: Yeah, it's a really weird time here, like you said. And I don't know what jumps out to say you need a Catwoman game much like you. What kind of connection do you have to Catwoman in the comics?
Blair: Well, insomnuch as like a lot of people where it was so I was born in 84. So clearly, I had Batman The Animated Series and I had Batman Returns with Michelle Pfeiffer. And for a lot of Batman villains And I really wish I had the issue number. I think it might have been an annual. I think it might have been a Detective Comics annual. And it possibly have the clan on the COVID And in the back there's like a bunch of just BIOS for villains because I know it went over the different Clay Faces and the Joker and Two Face and Catwoman. It was like their secret identities and their kind of origins. So that was really my way into a lot of Batman characters. I can't really say that I've really read many solo Catwoman stories outside of more modern things. Like, I think Ed Brewbacher did some in the think that's the most solo Catwoman I've run, I've read. So other than that, this iteration of Catwoman in the purple suit, I remember seeing, like, wizard magazine, there was probably like a Cataclysm tie in in the late 90s that I may have come across, but that's probably my extent of it.
Chris: For me, Catwoman in the comics has pretty much just been every now and then as I'm reading some of the really old Batmans because I'll just pick a random issue there and read them on whatever DC online service is called this week and watching Batman 66 when she pops up there. And I just haven't seen a ton of Catwoman there outside of some of the Valentine's Day specials that DC puts out.
Blair: Yeah, and I forgot about Batman 66. That was a big one for here, too. I think the reruns of the show came a lot later, but I remember ABC used to rerun them, used to play the movie all the time on Saturday and Sundays, and that was in heavy rotation in our house.
Chris: I used to try to hurry up and get home from work faster so that I could catch reruns, although for me, that also meant, like, trying to hurry up and get home around midnight.
Blair: I think we have a station here in Canada called YTV, and I think there was a period where they played this just before primetime at around six or 630. So that was like, the sweet spot for me, as I think I would have been maybe ten when they started doing that.
Chris: When you think of Catwoman, do you picture her more as a villain or maybe not a hero, but at least on the good guy's side?
Blair: I think I see her as more riding a line between hero and villain because I played a lot of games or like Batman games and catwoman tends to be well, in the same 16 bit era because there was a lot of Batman Returns games and there was the Adventures of Batman and Robin where you fight her in a free fall segment. But even in The Animated Series, she was a thief, but never trying to hurt anyone. It was more of just like a thrill of the hunt. And often she might get tangled in with a villain, but it was never like a master plan of stealing something to then take over a Gotham City or anything like that.
Chris: Yeah, Catwoman just seems to me to be somebody who wants what she wants, and however that lines her up with other people, that's just how it's going to be for that moment. And then when her desire switched, that might switch who she aligns herself with.
Blair: For a lot of people, like, their introduction to this character was more than likely Michelle Piper and Batman Returns. And there is a point where she kind of aligns with the Penguin there, but even still, it's just like, I don't know, you see her also sticking up for just like women in Gotham. Stop being so dependent on men and waiting for Batman to stay view and go do it yourself. There's a reason why that iteration of the character is iconic.
Chris: Speaking of iconic, Catwoman is somebody who has been around tangling with Batman one way or another for a very long time. Way back in Batman Number One, you don't see her in the costume or anything, but you do see Selena Kyle, and then pretty soon after that, you see her some weird Cat head cosplay type deal.
Blair: Yeah, my knowledge of a lot of early DC and comic stuff really could be better. Like where we grew up, it was really hard to get comic. So a lot of stuff that a lot of our introduction was through animated series and things like that. So for someone who has more of a knowledge, like, say, of early Captain appearances, does she eventually kind of look like she does, say, the Batman Brave in the bull cartoon or the Brave in the bull game?
Chris: Oh, yeah, she definitely gets there eventually. You do get the purple color. And I mean, you kind of get her with the cape because everybody has capes. They hadn't met Edna yet, but it's tons like every super classic thing you can think of that would be on a female dressed up superhero or supervillain you see in Catwoman completely impractical shoes, dress, or a skirt that is no way going to be functional. Weird cuts on the top to kind of be suggestive, but not really show anything because these are 1930s comics we're talking here.
Blair: Even now, we don't have HBO Max in Canada. So I just watched the latest season of Young Justice, and even then, I think Black canaries in it, but not for very much. But even now they still have her in, like, the boots and the tights and Zetana who's like a main character throughout this entire season. So it's like something that's kind of still happening now.
Chris: First off, that sucks that you had to wait that long because that show is amazing.
Blair: Yeah, I really liked binging it, though, because a lot of it, especially at the start, it takes a while to get going, but once it does, it hits really hard. I'm just lucky that I never got anything spoiled and I didn't get to watch it eventually.
Chris: But, yeah, Catwoman just kind of straddles this line between the hero and villain, between helping Batman or helping Batman, but really having Batman help her get her goal done. I know in I forget which iteration of the Animated Series it is, whether it's the Animated Series proper when it flip titles toward the end, she tricks Robin into helping her out.
Blair: Oh, yeah. When they introduced, like, the new animated series. Yeah, that was, I think, the introduction of Night Wing, which was a big deal for me because when the Catwoman comics, like, this particular iteration of Catwoman was happening, I was more than DC, than Marvel, and Night Wing was kind of like my Chuck Dicks. And Night Wing was like my favorite book. So, yeah, when Nightwing made his first appearance there, which was like, the Catwoman episode, it was like, a big deal for me.
Chris: Well, for one thing, it's just a good episode.
Blair: Oh, yeah, it's absolutely fantastic.
Chris: But just knowing that there's going to be this big old, hey, what's going on between Night Wing and Batman and Batgirl at that point, too, nobody really knows how to feel about Catwoman because nobody really knows what she's going to do. And that's something I find really intriguing. And I really need to go try to find some of her comics.
Blair: Yeah. Even in some of the recent iterations, like I love in Batman Arkham City, you actually have a choice that actually can change the ending of the game where you can choose to help Batman or just leave with Hugo strangers cut the contents of his vaults. And then you hear credits, role and hearing all this voiceover about how Gotham is falling. The Batman has failed. And that's all because you can make the choice to make Catwoman be greedy. But if she doesn't do that, then Batman eventually comes to save the day. And that's pretty great for a character who has kind of sold off as DLC. Towards the end.
Chris: DLC. Is a whole different topic to get into. We're not even going to open that can of worms right now.
Blair: Season passes and hiding stuff behind preorder bonuses, which is something you can say about this game, is for better or for worse, what's packed in that tiny cartridge is exactly what you get.
Chris: We're going to crack it in this cartridge and see what's in there while I play you a few promos for some other shows.
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Chris: Those are some great shows to check out, but first, let's finish up with this one. So Blair, you were telling me that you took this game to work. They let you play games at work?
Blair: Well, I mean, I have breaks at work and kind of the way my hours work is that I was working like a little bit later because I was time kind of when I would get off to when I would have to pick up my fiance. So when I can find a spare moment, I would take this and just play for a few minutes. It's been a spill because I actually started I finished this a few months ago, but I think it passwords fairly frequently, I'm going to say, even on a spy screen basis. And I remember my phone at that point, which is like a little later with just like photos of Catwoman passwords. And I was trying to remember like the most recent one.
Chris: I keep forgetting that you live in a civilized country that lets people have breaks at work. I'm not jealous at all.
Blair: Yeah, I even got in trouble with the manager for not taking mine. And just like working through them. They're like, you have to do this because it's in your contract. And I was like, okay. So now I guess this past week I just been playing a lot of Ninja Turtles caliber collection like everyone else. Like, God bless the switch.
Chris: Okay, I'm going to move up there right now. Everything is done and I know that there is snow and I don't care.
Blair: Yes, plenty of room.
Chris: As you said earlier, this game was made by Chemco and Vatical Entertainment. So far as of the time of this recording, we have not looked at any Vatical Entertainment games at all. And the only chemco games that have had their episodes published, at least assuming my record keeping has been on top of things, are Batman, Beyond, Return of the Joker, and way back in the beginning of things, Superman. For the regular nintendo. So superhero games, from what I'm seeing here that we've talked about, aren't something that Chemco is doing all the time, but what they're doing is generally decent enough quality.
Blair: Yeah, with this one, I noticed because I was taking notes as I was playing it, and you can really even though it's a 2D kind of side scrolling action game, it feels like it's trying to emulate, like core design. Tomb Raider from like, the 90s, like the way the character moves and kind of jumps feels like very deliberate Lara Croft motions, which doesn't exactly feel well in a 2D game. And I know there was 2D Tomb Raider games at the time on Game Boy color. I never played any of them. I think they were viewed fairly well. But none of that is really here because you have these really big stages that are mature to navigate and like, later on, or pretty early on actually, you have triangle jumps where you have to jump between walls and it is so precise and so frustrating. But also, this game is weirdly accurate to the comic books of the era. I found out as I was talking about it with mutual friend Chris Baker, and you fight a boss called Cyber Cat, who actually was in the comics that were happening at the time. And at one point Catwoman gets a Cybernetic suit, which was also a thing that happened. I don't know if she gets a laser gun like she gets here, but there's definitely like images of Catwoman with the suit that she gets in this game. So someone did their homework somewhere.
Chris: Figuring out who did that is definitely going to be something that I want to do because I just really love it when you get that kind of detail down into the game and that definitely isn't something they had to do. I don't know anybody who would be playing a game like this and be mad that Cyber Cat isn't included, unless you just want somebody who wanted an entirely Cat themed character game.
Blair: It's like one of those characters, too, where it's not just Cyber Cat, it's cat is like at an acronym, like Wild Cats. But I can't remember what it stands for. I know it was something very ninety s and of the era. That's something I definitely should have took a note on.
Chris: My quick little research here isn't showing me what it is either, so I think you get a pass.
Blair: Yeah, it's not something that's exactly like, people aren't clamoring for Cyber Cat to show up in. Matt Reeves as the Batman too, or a potential Catwoman spin off.
Chris: Be interesting if she did, though. I don't think it'd be completely out of place.
Blair: Yeah, I don't think anyone's really clamoring for like, the gritty reboot of Cyber Cat. Well, I'm sure there's someone out there, but not a loud enough crowd that you're going to make it happen.
Chris: So the basic plot of this game is that Taliagwell wants to hire Catwoman to steal an artifact for her from a museum. And Catwoman says in the wonderfully done cutscenes that you would find on a lot of these Game Boy games, says, no, you can't hire me. And Talia says, screw you, I'm going to do it. And then Catwoman says to herself, she can't hire me because I want that thing for me. And then shenanigans happen.
Blair: Yeah, that's the long and short of it because it was always the cutscenes. This is one of the clear Game Boy events or Game Boy color rather occurs, which were ones that can only be used on a Game Boy color. So most of the time that was just to show off like really nice splash cut scenes, which is something that's interesting or cool about this. And I mean, there is a lot of color. It just seems like a lot of effort went into looks and not so much in how it feels. And even like any most iterations of Batman, I've only seen the Batman once, so please forgive me. Internet. Like you see a catwoman, she has a whip and that's nowhere to be seen here. She gets a laser gun at some point that you activate with a start button, of all things. But there's no whip. And I found that interesting because actually I think you do use abomosi to swing. And that's really clumsy too, which is exactly kind of the word described. Mostly everything in this game is clumsy.
Chris: Clumsy is a very generous way to put it. The thing that jumped out to me and Kaylee as we are watching some gameplay videos together was that as you're going through the museum and beating up guards and guard dogs and whatnot, this might just tell you what kind of mindset we were in, but we're watching this and it's just instantly oh, wait. Why is she ripping their hearts out? Which obviously isn't what's happening. It's just a villain dropping some health as villains do in video games. But the way their heart pops out and then they just stay there on screen made us think that when they eventually get back up, they're just zombies with their hearts ripped out coming after Catwoman.
Blair: That's far more interesting than anything that's in this game. Yeah, that's something. This game is very generous with health. And I don't know if they looked at it and said, well, this game is kind of hard in all the wrong ways, so let's make every enemy drop health. But yeah, that's what makes levels really annoying is that I guess they wanted to make Catwoman not be a killer. So instead of having enemies kind of flash off screen or die, they get up as like kingdom hearts heartless, I guess, or nobodies where hell those stupid things are in those games. Yeah, I like your theory of zombies. That makes this way more interesting as you are dealing with Roz Ghoul at some point.
Chris: That is a very good point.
Blair: It could be like a robocop two robot where it's just like an organic thing in a body or like a brain in a jar or something.
Chris: I think the most telling thing for me about this game is that almost every single gameplay video that we found was the first level, and that was it. And especially for the games now, it's just a habit I've gotten into where I try to watch a bunch of gameplay videos just to see if there's something that I missed. And the fact that I could find almost nothing with other levels just really solidified for me that this game is bad.
Blair: Yeah, I actually finished it, and I finished it on, and my game boy events SP just chipping at it periodically. And I think I found one long play recorded somewhere, and I think it was really short. I think it was 45 minutes, because there was one point where I got to a level and I just didn't know how to progress. And I think that's where I learned that catwoman had a triangle jump because I saw them jump from wall to wall and I was like, you can do that. And then I had to figure it out. And even when I saw the video, it still wasn't great. It reminded me a lot of strider on the NES, of all things, where you can also do that, but pulling it off is like a crap shoot at best.
Chris: Everything about this game, I had a horrible time playing it. I would much rather just watch the cut scenes.
Blair: Yeah, and that's fair because you do get a few bosses. You do fight cybercat. It's actually been a spell. I should have done a bit more research as I played this a few months ago. I don't know. I think you fight Raza Ghoul. I know you fight a few bosses, and those are basically just hitting them and just trying to survive. But there's not a real strategy. But if they are, like Batman or catwoman Cedric villains, I could never tell.
Chris: Nobody really jumped out to me at all as a big thing like you. I played this probably way too long ago, and I might be just blocking it out of my head.
Blair: Well, it's not so much blocking as that. Like a game like this, it's very much of its era where someone and I was kind of thinking about it, where, like, chemco, they did Batman beyond. And I don't know who had the Batman license at that time because they did Dark Tomorrow in the early 2000s, but ubisoft also had the license. And I think they also either published or copublished Batman beyond return of the Joker. So I'm not sure they just had like a wholesale Batman license and was like, okay, let's just make a Catwoman game because Tomb Raider is big. Perfect. Dark is coming around the corner, people wants female characters. Oh, here is one. We'll try to make it like Tomb Raider. And we have a license, which is better than nothing because this was an era where Aquaman gets a game and there's a bunch of men in black games that are also not great because you had companies like Crave. Entertainment who just made a bunch of money just publishing, like Game Boy color games that, like, grandparents or parents would see at the store and be, oh, Blair likes catwoman. I'm going to buy the Catwoman game. It's definitely one of those.
Chris: Looking at this game as a whole, what do you think it really gets right about Catwoman?
Blair: I would say even though it's not great, kind of the acrobatics, there's definitely the guts of something good here. I just don't know if they have the time or the budget or the skill. I would love to speak to someone who worked on this. I don't know if it was a Japanese team or not. It probably was and kind of just her flippancy to like, I'm going to do my own thing. I'm not a gun for hire. I'm not a traditional Batman row who's just going to do a job. She is trying to just do this on her own. She's not doing it to help Talia or the league. She's just doing it because Selena wants to get it done. And that and well, I guess the era of the Catwoman comics because this actually ties into it so much.
Chris: I love how accurate they are with the suit. You, you do get some color shifting a little bit sometimes in the level that might just be because I'm watching a Game Boy color on a 55 inch TV. So it kind of looked like it was more purple at some points and more of a pink at other ones. And this is within the same video. So it's not just like somebody had their monitor set up differently from somebody else. But again, it's 55 inch screen versus like a two and a half by two and a half inch screen. So that could be a ton of stuff.
Blair: Yeah, I mostly play the Sonic game by color while there was like an overhanging office light ahead of me. So not the optimal viewing settings here.
Chris: I actually really loved the lack of Batman in this one too, because you have the Talia connection. Obviously this is Batman, but I like that they could have not Batman.
Blair: Yeah, it's only he shows up as like a boss character or something like that. I think the most you might get is I'm not 100% sure. He might show up in the ending, but that's about it. From what I remember. From what I remember. And it's hard to kind of find a long play for this. Like you said, there's not a lot of data on the Catwoman game. I think if Batman shows up, it's mostly it's probably just in a cutscene at the end.
Chris: I can't fault him for having that in there. I will still take that as a total win though. What do you think this one gets wrong about Catwoman?
Blair: Well, it's also kind of what it gets right because when you think of thieves, you think of elegance and precision, which this game definitely is not. Like whether you're jumping or swinging or fighting a guard or a zombie dog or whatever, everything just doesn't connect or feel right. Like it's not a very long game. I think it maybe took me a little over an hour just chipping at it like in 15 minutes intervals and not once that I feel like I was in control. Everything just felt so imprecise.
Chris: Yeah, that was the feeling I got from it too. You have a character here who has those cat like reflexes, cat like ability to get in and out of places and the game is just like two steps a skew from being pretty good. If you knew somebody who wanted to get into Catwoman comics, would you hand them this game as a bit of a primer course?
Blair: Probably not because I mean, it's not a great game. There's very little story to speak of. It is accurate ish to the era of comics that it was in. But this is not something that I would point to as being a good representation of the catwoman character. I appreciate that it exists because even now in 2022, the most we've seen of a Wonder Woman game is a small teaser and we're probably not getting to that game till next year or the year after. So there's very few games in the comic book realm that actually star female characters. This and maybe Danger Girl were probably the first and they were around the same time. So I appreciate that someone made this, but as a Catwoman primer, not exactly. I wouldn't give this to someone as their first introduction to that character.
Chris: I'm going to say that I would with the biggest asterisks you can possibly give it actually two asterisks one because this is very easily, at least at the time we are recording this, this is very easily the best catwoman game that exists. But also you can just give somebody a cut of all the cutscenes and let them watch that as a video and don't even make them play it. Just let them watch the cutscenes.
Blair: Yeah. I haven't played a catwoman on Game Boy in advance. I have played Catwoman on PlayStation Two. So I don't know how the game Boy advanced game is. But in terms of catwoman games and their authenticity to the character, this is probably the best game with the word catwoman in the title.
Chris: It's a very small pond, but there is a big fish. And finally, just because I'm curious, who's your favorite muppet.
Blair: Oh, that's a tough one. I was a big animal fan. Growing up. I think this is the Muppet family Christmas life lines like, peace on earth, give me presents and animals sleeping on a coat hanger. Those are etched in my memory for forever. Like, if I'm a senior old man, I'll probably be in a facility somewhere saying, love hanger, love hanger.
Chris: Animals. Just so much fun. I love him.
Blair: Yeah. How could he not? He's absolutely fantastic. And I probably have like, a Muppets baby doll from McDonald's or a toy at the very least. I know there was definitely Muppet Babies Happy Meal toys, so I definitely had baby animals. Oh, we had hockey ones too. That's the most Canadian thing ever.
Chris: Well, why wouldn't you have a hockey animal? But that's just perfect.
Blair: Yeah, he would be the guy up there on the ice, like, picking the fights and going crazy. Yeah, I love to see animal as a hockey.
Chris: Blair Put him on the ice with Folkie Nelson. We'll be good to go.
Blair: Exactly.
Chris: Well, Blair, it has been great talking to you about all of this. If people want to hear more from you, where else can they find you? Around the Internet?
Blair: They can find me on Twitter, primarily at Blaircade It's arcade with this BL in front. You can read my work at Comic Book VideoGames.com, and there you can find links to things like a review of Catwoman on PlayStation Two and my books, the Web of Spiderman games and The Avengers, and video games. I'm also starting to make guests appearances in podcasts like this one, and games My mom found and the gamer looks at 40, so just trying to get out there a bit more beyond the written word.
Chris: So you're a much smarter podcaster than I am, then, because other people get to edit when you guest on their shows and not you. That's the key.
Blair: Yeah, I definitely envy people who have the knowledge to do it, but it's nice to play in other people's playgrounds and just get to do the fun part and then bounce when all the work has to come in.
Chris: That is exactly why I also enjoy being a guest on other people's shows. But as usual, we will have links to all that stuff down in the show notes, because clicking links is so much easier than trying to remember how to spell things.
Blair: Oh, yeah. As someone who worked in Carlton for many years, trying to phonetically pronounce things and stuff like that is a nightmare. So, everyone, show of hands and applause just for someone doing all that life work for you.
Chris: Well, as always, if you want to hear more from me, you can head on over to Playcomics.com, where while Twitter exists, there's still a link to Twitter. But Twitter has been showing me weird message things lately, like not updating, so I think it might be dying. But no matter what happens, you can always head over to Playcomics.com and find links to all the social media stuff and everything, because that's where I'm telling you to go because I have full control over that. If you want to help support the show, you can be like the wonderful patrons I have in Oto Litclass and Dan McMahon and Carl Antonovitz and help give the show money. Because actually making the show costs money. It's hosting. You got to pay for hosting. That's the main deal, stuff like that. Or you can just share the show with your friends because listening and shoving the show into other people's ear holes is a very nice way. As long as you have consent first of just spreading the love of the show, because that would be really, really nice. Speaking of things that are really, really nice, you can also listen to other shows on the Guinea Geek Network, like Legends of Shield, where I get to talk and I don't have to edit. And this time we talked about a bunch of new stuff. And you can see my new Gwen that I got from my desk. If you watch the video, obviously you can't see it if you just listen to the audio only. If you like the music that I'm really talking on top of right now, head on over to soundcloud.com Best Day to check out best Day's music. But most of all, just grab a game, grab a stack of comics and go find yourself a new favorite character. I am so excited to have you on. I'm less excited for what we're talking about. That's out. And I can't say that right up front. She'd have to because why would they name it? Yeah, there we go, through the magic vanity and we're going to pretend that never happened.