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And it is part of the Guineek Network. Just like the show you're checking out now, shows on the network are individually owned and opinions expressed may not reflect others. Find other insightful and wonderful geeky shows@gunnygeeknetwork.com welcome to Play Comics, where once again we are looking at a video game based on a comic property and how well it represents that source material. And today we are here with Frank Martin taking a look at Turok evolution and Frank, I just have to know now because it took us so long to get this one working because we had to work around my computer trying to blow itself up. What is your favorite dinosaur?
My favorite dinosaur? I don't know. This is a tough question. You know what happened when you're a kid? This question is easy because everything's a dinosaur, right? But then when you get older, you realize not everything is a dinosaur. Like a pterodactyl is not a dinosaur, right?
I don't think so.
Dinosaurs are constantly changing. When we were a kid, they were gigantic lizards and now they're pretty much overgrown chickens, right? And they don't really growl. They kind of squawk like they're constant. The science of dinosaurs has constantly changed. This is way too complicated of an answer for this question, so I'll just go with T Rex.
That is still and always will be a good answer because a T. Rex is great. My favorite is a cassowary.
I don't even know what that is.
It is a bird, mostly in Australia somewhat. There's a smaller version of it in New Zealand, but mostly in Australia. And if you breathe wrong too close to it, it will jump kick you to death with its giant claw.
That's awesome. That is. You know, the correct answer to that question is all the dinosaurs, because they're all awesome in their own special way.
Dinosaurs are great. What else is great is getting you back on for another episode here and being slightly more on topic and serious. Did you even know Turok was a comic when you were playing this game growing up?
No, when I first started playing it, absolutely not. I just knew that it was awesome because you like it's. You know what, there's something to be said about first person shooters. That's just mindless action. You know, I love a good RPG as much as the next person, but there's something about just like getting in the eyes of a guy holding a gun and just going through levels and killing things and the Fact that Turok was killing dinosaurs and mercenaries too. Right. There's some parts where you kill mercenaries. So that was just. It was just. I love, I love good, mindless first person fun.
My friends and I, like, we were aware that there were new comics coming out for Turok as the game was coming out, because that's just what Acclaim does. And Valiant did their thing and everything. But until doing this show, I had no idea that Turok went back to the 50s.
Oh, very old character, right? No, I, I didn't know that either. I. When I first played it, I was just a kid and I was like, yeah, video games, dinosaur hunting, fun. And then as I got older, I real. I didn't even know that Valiant's comics were out then. I was little, I just knew Marvel dc. I wasn't a big Valiant fan. And then I was a big fan of the Valiant reboot In the early 2010s, I want to say.
That seems about right.
Yeah. And then they were. And then that's when I started to learn, oh, there's other Valiant. And Turok was a character and he made the video game. And it all started. The dots started falling in place and. But they didn't have Turok then like the property, they didn't own it. So they came up with. I forget what it was called. They called it Savage or something. Was their Turok stand in? Kind of. It was, it was, it was interesting. It was different. It was okay. But it was. I mean, especially that first Turok game that was just like, man, I love it. You know, that really set the bar.
Yeah. Turok has bounced around to different comic publishers in addition to Valiant and Acclaim. They were on Dark Horse for a little bit. They been on Dynamite, which I think might be where they are currently. It's either their Valiant, I can't remember, but way back in the day they were on Dell Comics and Gold Key Comics and Western Publishing. And you know, you had way more of these smaller publishers back in the 50s, 60s like that. And most of them just didn't really have things that survive into the public consciousness now. Or the things that did survive got absorbed by Marvel and dc.
A lot of them morphed too into like, they changed with the time. So they're just not the same iteration. Even Superman and Batman were really, really different back then.
Batman had a gun when he first started, like with bullets and everything.
Yeah, I am. You know, Turok's got that real pulp feel to it. Like I could see it jiving with like the shadow and those Types of characters I could see. See him kind of do. I would love to like, it's one of those characters where you can either go either way with it. You can either really have a great, great story and a character and a writer that handles him well, or it could just fall back and be some generic, stupid dinosaur adventure, you know. So it really depends on the writer and how they want to handle it and what kind of story they want to tell with him. But yeah, I would love to do like a little, little old school, 50s Turok. Give it that nice pulp feel to it, like Dick Tracy or something along those lines.
Yeah, going back and reading that old stuff gets really fun. Like, I'm somebody who enjoys media from back then. I mean, obviously you have to look past a lot of modern day morals and stuff and things and some subtle.
Racism here and there. Oh, yeah.
And not so subtle racism in a lot of ways too. But, you know, if that's something that you can get past and that's. I'm not saying that everybody should get past all of that, but some things are worth it and some things definitely aren't. This is one that I think, for the most part, is worth looking past what has popped up in there. I mean, you've got a story of two Native American kids who are basically sucked down into a dinosaur world and their adventures in the dinosaur world.
Hey, it was just a different era of storytelling. You know, they. They told stories for a different demographic that were looking for different things. And nowadays it's all about spectacle. So, yeah, I can totally see them turning into like a big, I mean, imagine Jurassic park, but with like, I don't know, John McClane, you know, just making like a. An action hero in a Jurassic park world. Because Chris Pratt doesn't really do that. I mean, he's just. He kind of just bumbles through those movies. The dinosaurs are real. Star need an action hero to kind of fight back. No, we need, we need Dom Toretto. We need that Jurassic World Fast and Furious crossover that they keep talking about.
Oh, that would be amazing if they could pull it off.
It would be too ridiculous. They couldn't make it happen. I mean, not. I mean, not that they won't. They could definitely do it. It would just be like. It's one of those things. You kind of have to like, check your brain at the door.
I'm okay with that. I mean, you got to do that a lot with the comics as well, especially if you go back to the older things because you're also writing those stories. For people where they're not necessarily grabbing every issue every single time. So you have to have a story that can hold up by itself, but also not tell the origin every single time. Not go and spend half the story telling you what's going on. You have your simple little premise and you go in and you've got some continuity because people are picking up some issues along the way. But you can't do these like 30 parts. Have to get every issue, have to see every episode kind of things going like you do now.
It's just a different type of storytelling. I mean it's. There's pros and cons to both and they ebb and flow with the time. Turok, I could definitely see it being every single issue is just kind of a one and done adventure. You know what you do, you. You stylize every issue he faces off against a different dinosaur. So it's. There you go.
And then eventually when you get to acclaim especially you have Turok interacting with aliens and stuff, because why not? You've already gone back for dinosaurs. You might as well go forward for aliens.
They keep. And they keep changing him too, which is weird. He's always Turok because that's like the name, that's the brand name, right? That's what they're carrying through. But I remember when they rebooted him for the Xbox, it might have been for Xbox 360, it was just Turok they called it. But I think he was like a soldier. He was just a mercenary and his last name was Turok. And then all. And then other versions, the Turok is like Blade, the, the warrior mantle that's passed down. So it's always changing, it's always evolving. But I really did love that. I don't know if you played it the, the reboot, the Xbox 360, that was another one where it's like you don't have to think too hard about it. You don't have to strategize or worry about upgrading your magical system. You just go in there, you get your weapons, you fight mercenaries, you fight dinosaurs and you kind of have a good time doing.
Just seems almost silly now that we have a franchise built completely around just going around and hunting dinosaurs. Like it's so simple. And there's this in dino crisis and I can't think of anything else really where you're just going around and hunting dinosaurs and stuff. Like it's sitting right there in front of us.
Yeah, they, they, I don't know, they kind of dropped the ball. They could really do something. You know what I really love? I love. They always do well with those Jurassic park or Jurassic World. I forget which. Which franchise they kind of put it to. But the arcade games, you know where you have to. You have to shoot. They like, they have those time events where you have to shoot all the parts in the dinosaur. Those are always fun because they take you on the different adventures. Like you have to stop the. The Triceratops in this one or stop the Velociraptors in that one. It's those, those were always fun, but they. I feel like they rigged those games. Like you can never beat them without pumping like $10 with the quarters into them.
Oh, that. That's not done totally on purpose at all.
I don't think the one time I really realized how much that was was I had a. My son had his birthday at Dave and Buster's and the arcade they gave him, or they gave the kids unlimited cards right. Where you could just keep swiping because it's a birthday party. Like, just keep going. So I'm like, I'm going to beat this Halo game. No matter what it. How long it takes, I'm going to beat this stupid. I think it's called fireteam Raven because I was a Halo fanboy at the time. So I'm like, I'm going to just sit down. I'm gonna just swipe this card as many times as it takes. I'm gonna get to the end of the game. And there were parts of the game I started to realize that you can't not get hit, right? You're supposed to. You're supposed to shoot the ship before it shoots you. And if you. You screw it up, it hits you. And there were so many times I did it perfect, but I still got hit. And I was like, son of a bitch. These games are rigged completely. Like, so. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, we're gonna go take out our frustration on some old arcade machines while I drop some promos for a few other things.
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Those are some great things to check out, but first let's finish up here. So, Frank, what we're really here to talk about is this PS2 Xbox GameCube game from 2002, Turok Evolution. It was made by Acclaim all around and there's a Game Boy advance version, but it's a Game Boy advance port of a console game, so it exists and it's certainly one of the games of all time.
I. If I remember correctly, it wasn't as well received as the first one. The first one was marvelous. I mean, I don't want to say that it rivaled GoldenEye, but it definitely, it definitely was one of the, the good first person shooters that from the, from that generation. And then Evolution just didn't, I guess, carry the mantle obviously, because we're not talking about it like years and years later that the Turok franchise is still alive and well in video games.
Yeah, like the first one was super amazing. Had that surprise like just cult following right. From people seeing a demo. The second one built on that. The third one kind of faltered a little bit, but it was still really good. And then there's Turok Evolution, which, I mean, you also went from something that was exclusively on the Nintendo 64 with the first three games to. Let's make it not only for a new system on the GameCube but also the PS2 and the Xbox. So you've got those two other consoles that you have to get everything figured out for. The GameCube is new, but at least you're kind of able to work in. Like this is what Nintendo did before. They probably didn't change too much. Having to make this for three different consoles. I mean having to make anything for three different consoles I think is like just amazing that anybody can pull it off. Plus they had a computer version of this. So there's four or you know, however you want to count a computer because that can be 10 billion different versions in itself.
You know, I think it suffered from the jump in generation. You know, N64 was. It was like in a whole league of its own as far as gameplay and stuff. And I think when. When the. Was it the PS2 and the Xbox that was the generation for this, for the new one, it just. It was a different generation of games and I think gamers might have also just been looking for new things and different that like there's there. I remember there was a lot of hope coming out with a lot of PS2 games. Like I remember Metal Gear Solid 2 was coming out and Grand Theft Auto. It was people. People were looking to different things and so like going backwards and trying to pick up Turok and like you said, it had a lot stacked against it. Trying to expand into two new horizons and different systems. It just maybe it just wasn't meant to be.
It's kind of funny that you said going backwards like that because Turok Evolution. I mean if. When you hear the name Evolution seems like you should be taking a giant step forward. But instead this game was a prequel to the first game, which I don't really have a problem with in theory, but the fact that they really dropped the ball making this one, that. That's just something that's really hard to forgive.
I think with the. When they tried to reboot it for the 360, that's when they tried to step forward and do like an evolution and do something different. It was. You know what it was. I enjoyed that one. It was kind. It was a little bit too little too late for the franchise. And also there were so many. Had so much competition of first person shooters that were just so much more complex like Halo and Gears of War. It was very simple. So it's. It was. Yeah, they tried to evolution. The Turok reboot was what evolution should have been. But they tried to do like the same old, same old, while also moving up in the generational ladder of games and it just, it just didn't click.
This one has a. A pretty simple story for it. Turok is going up and fighting against one of his enemies, Captain Bruckner from one of the U.S. military things. And as they're fighting, they get sucked into a wormhole and they, they are thrown into the dinosaur world.
Oh, of course they do. They always do. It's. I love how games start that.
Yeah, they get.
Yeah. What were you doing? Yeah, nothing. I just got sucked into the wormhole. And that's how the game.
I mean, really, that's all you need. There's just, you know, you're going to get into the lost land, which is what they call the dinosaur world. You know that you're going to survive because there's another game. Plus they also wouldn't make a game where you just have to lose. That would be evil. But you're basically just going through and fighting through all the dinosaurs. And in theory there are some bosses, but if you don't know that they're a boss, then you don't really realize you're fighting a boss. And it's a first person shooter. I'm not a huge fan of the genre. I just. Once you have to start aiming up and down. I got lost. Yeah. I mean, it's a simple little story. You go in, you do your stuff, you shoot everybody where everybody's a dinosaur and some things attack you and some things don't attack you, and some things attack you even more and eventually you win. Yay. I mean, I'm just not a fan of first person shooters. I can't aim up and down and side to side at the same time, so.
So this episode was already stacked against you is what you're saying.
See, here's the thing though. Like, as far as me liking the game. Yes. As far as me appreciating the game, showing off T and everything. No. I can still get behind all that.
Yeah. But it's. It failed in that.
This one. Yeah. But watching through a bunch of playthrough videos and reviews and everything, I'm not the only one who felt that way.
No. I mean, there's a law of diminishing returns a little bit. You know, you gotta, you gotta spice it up, you gotta do something new, you gotta do something different. And it just, it just did it. Which is strange because you would think that like, like we said, it's a new. It's evolution. It's on a new platform. It's supposed to. To move the needle, supposed to move along. But I think it was kind of resting on its wares a little bit. I'm just trying to coast on the Turok name and the popularity of the first ones and just couldn't make it happen. The franchise needs. It needs good. I don't know if this is the right word, but congruence, you know, like, it's got a great story, it could have great gameplay. But if you get, like a great comic line with a great toy line and a great video game line all the same time, I could totally see Turok really, really making a name for itself and a comeback. Because, I mean, the younger generation has no idea what Turok is, you know, and I think it should.
We might be getting to the point where the younger generation is going to be able to pick up on the nostalgia from their parents, which makes me feel horrible for saying that because it makes me feel really old. But it's true, and that's pretty much where we are.
Yeah, if they put out a badass Turok movie, I would totally take my kids to that, and they would jump on it. I mean, all these things, you can see left and right, they're rebooting, they're revitalizing. I think I really see a lot of promise in Turok, especially as a writer. I would love to get my hooks in and see what I could do. And it, like, it's a. It's a awesome soldier, uses tons of weapons, and he hunts dinosaurs while fighting bad guys. I mean, it's like how you can't really screw it up. I mean, you can, but hopefully you just. You just let it do its thing. Even like, they just came out with Laura Croft, right? Laura Croft. She never goes away. She's been here the entire time. She's had tons of games, movies. She's just got an anime show on Netflix. Why can't we have a Turok anime? You know? You know why? Because he's not a hot chick, that's why.
And also because we don't deserve nice things with dinosaurs.
I guess.
I think this one is really hard to pin down on if it connects to the comics. Like, once you get past really, I think the first game is fine, but once you get past that, the comics are kind of evolving with the games. And so, yeah, it definitely will get you into the comics that have come out since, But I think it's really hard to get it to connect with that super early 1950s, 1960s era. Of Turok because it was made for just dinosaurs. It wasn't made for aliens and wormholes and other dimensions and plasma guns and everything.
There's. There's too many chefs in the kitchen in Turok's kitchen. That's probably what it is you need. It's. It's suffered from just corporate hellscape of being sold back and forth and licensed back and forth, and it hasn't really had one mastermind at the helm to really kind of bring it forth and treat it with the respect it deserves. And you know what, in all fairness, a lot of properties kind of go through that. So maybe that's perhaps why Lara Croft has withstood the test of time and others have.
This one, though, really does get screwed over so much more, because even other things that have gotten sold that many times, you still have that giant central thing keeping it together, and you don't have. Let's add this and this and that other thing. So much like you do with Turok.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, when they tried. When Valiant rebooted and they tried to make their own Turok with Savage, I mean, you can see, like the basic Turok elements there, but it was never going to take off because it did. It didn't have that overall combativeness to it that I remember that the games had. And it was. It was more about, like, I don't know, survival and stuff along those lines. And it was more about fitting into the. The overall valley universe and trying to figure out a way to include him rather than just letting him do his own thing. And, yeah, it's just bounced around so many times that it's been tough. And I've seen a lot of other properties that aren't comic book focused that have bounced around a lot that still survive somehow because they have that other thing. Every once in a while you see Indiana Jones comics come out, or James Bond is another great example. All these other things that were born outside of comics seem to continue on because they have that landmark kind of franchise wherever it's coming from. Turok never really had that. And the video game, I think, really catapulted it, even though it was brought back into the. Came from the comics, but still with the. The fault of evolution. It never really. The video game franchise never really continued to carry it forward the same way that the video game franchise carries Lara Croft or Master Chief.
And honestly, I think this also suffers from the fact that Evolution didn't really get a sequel. You can forgive a lot of things in early years in a console and jumping from one company to another as far as which consoles you're going onto, trying to figure out what you can do in systems that can actually do 3D. Well, because let's face it, the 64 was not that great at doing things in 3D. And if they had just made a good second game to go into the PS2 Xbox GameCube era, I think you wouldn't have really had a problem. But the fact that they did this game and then just stopped until Turok came out on the 360 era stuff, there's not even really a comparison between these two. It's just that's another game that happens to be in the Turok franchise.
Yeah, I'm checking out the Wikipedia page and they have, they have, under development, they have just a single line that says the game had a marketing budget of $8 million. So it's, it's kind of like they, they pumped. They, they saw like fan fandom around Turok and they're like, this is going to be huge. So they pumped a lot of money into trying to make it a big thing. And what Don. It just didn't take off the way they, they expected. I guess their plans for a sequel were scrapped. I mean, that's on the Wikipedia page too. Talking about how they just. They had a small team working on it and when it. I guess maybe they didn't get the reviews they wanted or didn't they get the sales that they wanted. It kind of like fizzled out.
Normally now is when I would ask what this gets right and what it gets wrong compared to the comics. But because the comics kind of evolved with the game itself, I feel like that's a really weird question to ask. Looking at Turok Evolution.
You know, these types of games. I like multiplayers in these types of games especially because they try to do different things with weapons. You know, I remember the Turok's iconic thing was he had his bow and arrow right. And that was one of the fun things about goldeneye was all the different weapons. I remember from the reboot. One of the cool things they implemented was the use of a knife. So I think that's one of the big takeaways from the Turk franchise is that they tried to do that. Like you talk about plasma weapons. They try to do different things weapon wise. And multiplayer is always fun because you're playing with other people and you're different in a different world. But yeah, man, I remember playing the first Shrock game. The story really engrossed you being this dinosaur Hunter and then the follow up, the evolution just didn't really captivate like you were just saying when you were going through the, the synopsis. It just, it's all flat, you know, you don't really feel that dinosaur hunting mentality.
If you knew somebody who really wanted to get into Turok. Would this game even enter the conversation for being in a bit of a primer course?
No, I don't think so. I, I mean, I would point. For nostalgia's sake, I might point to the first game, but that's not. Because it's so far down the line. I wouldn't even really bring it up. But you know what, in terms of games, I would definitely recommend goldeneye. I just played a goldeneye Xbox. It was on Game Pass. They just. I don't know what you would call it. It's not remake. It's a remaster. Right. They remastered goldeneye. It still played very well. If they remastered Turok the same way, I think it would totally hold up. But the. They really need a new current Turok story to pump life into the franchise, to show people what it can be, you know, because what are you gonna do? You're gonna point them to the 90s era Valiant Comics? I mean, those are good, but I don't think that's like the perfect introduction. You need something new for the newer generation to hook them because you can't, you can't show them the, the 50s comics you were talking about maybe later on down the line. I don't think that they're gonna. Unless the, the new, the original N64 game is revamped. There's just not gonna, it's not gonna play the same on a new Count console. So. So yeah, it was, it's, it's a little bit of a limbo as far as Turok's concerned as to what I would use as the introduction.
I know they did take a couple of the 64 games and they have been redone on Switch and on Steam and stuff. So you can get them that way. Like this game, at best, I would tell somebody, okay, let's play this one because it's a prequel and when you get bored, we'll just stop and go to one of the other games. And I'm stretching to even get that far because like you said, like this, these are all pointing to a super specific era that it isn't like, you know, let's look at 80s Batman, but it's still Batman. This is.
Yeah, I know, I know.
It's so totally different from any of the early stuff. It's like if you want to introduce somebody to 90s Turok or newer, show them a game. If you want to show them anything older than that to rock, then no game is going to help you at all.
Yeah, I, I remember the, the Sega Genesis Batman games and you know you can. It's got. It just feels Batman, you know, when you're. You're playing as Those characters and 2D side scrolling games and they're super low bit and they're just not like flashy the way Turkish current games are. It still has that Batman Batman atmospheric element to it that you can. You could take a kid, throw them in there and just. They'll still be in it because they can resonate to that Batman element. If you took an exact replica of those older Batman games and you just swapped out everything palette wise and made it Turok, it just. It's not going to have that punch to it because you don't have that connection. So it's, it's a tough sell. It just is. They're starting from scratch with this character that they have no connection to.
If they made a Turok movie. Except it was Muppets. Which Muppet would be Turok and Animal. So this is going to be the really fun part. Then there's copies of another Muppet. That's going to be all the dinosaurs. Who's Animal going to be hunting down?
Who is Animal going to be? Gonzo.
Oh yes. Tons of Gonzos would be amazing.
Just Gonzo Velociraptors. That would be fun. I would love to see. I would love to. Animals. My favorite Muppet. So that's an unfair question, but I could totally see him just going savage. He just gets a mohawk. You know, he's got a bow and arrow around his back with a bunch of knives.
That would be great.
Jungle. He's definitely a cool character. I'm. I wanted. Yeah, man. Who owns the license now? Let's Google it, see if it's for sale.
I mean Disney's buying everything else. They can buy the Turok license. Let's do it. They've already got half of that thing put together with having the Muppets.
Dreamworks.
Oh yeah. Then we're gonna make this happen. I mean, not really because I don't have that kind of poll, but somebody should.
How do you. How do you own. How does Dreamworks own Turok and doesn't do anything. You know what? You know what the problem is? They don't have nerds in charge of their entertainment Divisions. That's. That's the problem. It was owned by Classic Media, and Classic Media was bought for $155 million in 2012. And as of 2016, Dreamwork Classics owns the rights to Turok that they're just sitting on and not doing anything because they don't love money.
Well, there's only one thing to do at a time like this. Team up with Disney and have Animal hunt down a bunch of gonzo raptors.
I don't know. I'm. Now I'm seeing something on Reddit that says Disney owns it. So no one do. I'm gonna throw my phone away because you're never gonna get a straight answer. It doesn't matter who owns it. Whoever owns it is an idiot. That's the answer. Idiots own it.
Well, if people want to be not an idiot and hear more from you, where else can they find you around the Internet?
Oh, my website is franktherider.com I got free reads there of all the wonderful things that I make. You can sign up for my mailing list. And also on social media, Instagram, Twitter, and facebooktheriter there too.
I'm assuming your website also has ways for people to give you money, because that is a good thing.
I do have a shop on there if you are interested in some digital comics or print comics. Because I do love money. Money's nice. It helps me feed my video game, comic, and movie addiction.
And I'm assuming the dog likes to eat.
The dog does like to eat. That's my wife coming home. So they're barking, but yeah, damn dogs eat better than I do. I eat all junk food, as always.
If you want to hear more from me, the best way to do that is to head on over to playcomics.com where there's links to all the social media things, which really is just blue sky because I mean, just look at the state of the world. It's. I'm not a dummy or a horrible, horrible person. Yeah, let's just leave it at that. If you want to be on the show, then check out the list of things that I need to get booked the soonest. There's a link to that down on the show notes. Or you can just send me a message somehow and we'll talk about it. And most likely I'll just send you a link to that list as well because I try to keep it pretty up to date. It's really the best way. Also, it means that I can't be dumb and start talking to you about something that doesn't actually need to happen because you catch me while I'm at work and I'm being dumb. If you want to help support the show, you can be like Dan McMahon or oh Nolik Class and give the show money because it does cost money to run a podcast, which sucks, but that's the truth. Or you can just share it with your friends or your enemies or random people out on the street or, you know, anything like that. You know, it's good. I just want more people to hear this because it's fun and I hope it's fun for you. Obviously it is, or you wouldn't be listening at this point. Don't forget that Play Comics is a part of the gunandgeek.com network, home to such wonderful shows as Legends of Shield where, you know, Daredevil's coming back. So we're probably going to talk about it. I think I can see that on the horizon. If you like the music that I'm really talking on top of right now, head over to BackingTrack GG and find some good music for your own project. Preferably something else, maybe. No, I don't care. Just grab something that fits with your project. It may make sense, that's why they make it. But most of all, just grab a game, grab a stack of comics, and go find yourself a new favorite character.