WEBVTT 00:08.576 --> 00:19.626 You're listening to season 11 of Mobile Suit Breakdown, a weekly podcast covering the entirety of sci-fi mega-franchise Mobile Suit Gundam from 1979 to today. 00:19.626 --> 00:47.845 This is episode 11.17, The Fight and the Furious, Tokyo Adrift. And we're your hosts. I'm Thom, and you'll never be able to defeat the Devil Gundam or rescue your master unless you can get through me first. But my schedule is kind of busy, so be sure to make an appointment well in advance. 00:47.845 --> 01:13.281 And I'm Nina, new to G Gundam and starting to think this Domon guy might be somewhat... Pig-headed? Mule-ish, one might say? As an ad-free independent podcast, Mobile Suit Breakdown relies on the feverish fanaticism of our paying subscribers. Thank you all, and special thanks to our newest patron, Ramu Ral Partha. You keep us genki. 01:14.500 --> 01:15.751 I got that reference. 01:16.345 --> 01:17.163 I didn't. 01:17.709 --> 01:21.222 Ral Partha was a manufacturer of miniatures. Ooooooh. 01:21.896 --> 01:22.554 Back in the day. 01:22.779 --> 01:36.105 They might still be. I want to say in like the '90s they were the big one. No, even earlier than that, like the '80s. If your dad had old like D&D miniatures from when he was a kid, they were probably Ral Partha. 01:36.105 --> 01:37.068 Okay. 01:37.068 --> 03:08.239 They were based in Ohio. Before we get into this week's episode, I want to remind you to go and fill out the survey for Tim Eldredge's anime fandom documentary Icons of Anime. The website is iconsofanimedoc.com. It's a quick survey that will help bring a very cool project to fruition, so go fill it out. Besides, what else are you going to do while you're waiting for the next episode of The Disappearances of Lydia Fontaine to drop? But this week we're covering G Gundam episode 17, Taiketsu: Nazo no Fukumen Faita, or Challenge: Mysterious Masked Fighter, Originally broadcast on August 12th, 1994. There are no new names to highlight in the credits this week. The series has mostly fallen into a steady rhythm of regular contributors. So this is a good opportunity instead to mention the insert song, which plays quietly in the background of the last scene, when Domon is acknowledging his own weaknesses and resolving to return to the Guiana Highlands for further training. It's a neat callback, since the same song played during Domon's memories of his earlier training, under Master Asia in the Guiana Highlands back in episode 15. The song in question is Hoshikuzu no Requiem, Starry Sky Requiem, composed by Tanaka Kohei with lyrics by Ando Yoshihiko, who also wrote the lyrics to the 0083 Stardust Memory theme song, and it was sung by Rean's voice actor, Amano Yuri. Now, the play-by-play. 03:08.239 --> 03:35.415 Hello listeners and welcome to Double Take, your source for raw, unbiased Gundam fight analysis in the colonies and around the globe. We're your hosts, Nona and Tim, and the topic on everyone's mind today: how will the Devil Gundam and its lieutenant, the Master Gundam, affect the Gundam fight going forward? 03:35.415 --> 04:02.927 It's been a real wild card. Clearly not affiliated with any participant nation, we have no idea what the Devil Gundam and its mysterious pilot hope to achieve. But they've allegedly killed Neo Egypt's Gundam Fighter and replaced him with a mummy, sickened Neo Turkey's Gundam Fighter with something called DG Cell Disease, invaded Shibuya with an army of mindless cyborgs, kidnapped a dozen support personnel, and mind-controlled half a dozen of the top Gundam Fighters. 04:02.927 --> 04:20.622 I can't believe you're falling for those conspiracy theories! Mummies? Mind control? Listen to yourself! I'm talking about pure fighting prowess and strategy. It really did kidnap a bunch of support staff. And then it fought off 5 of the top Gundam fighters at the same time! 04:20.622 --> 04:51.986 Yes, the rivals came together temporarily to rescue their support teams and fight off this mystery menace, but now that the Devil Gundam has disappeared, is it any wonder that the Gundam fighters for Neo-France, Neo-Russia, Neo-America, and Neo-China are all getting back to the Gundam fight? But Domon, this guy, come on, you know how I feel about Domon. He is busy chasing down the Devil Gundam. And why? What is the plan here? How is he going to beat it on his own when he couldn't even do it with the help of 4 other skilled fighters? 04:51.986 --> 05:23.541 Well, Tim, Master Asia, previous Gundam Fight champion and Domon Kashuu's martial arts mentor, has left both the Gundam Fight and Domon to team up with the Devil Gundam. and Domon seems as shocked by this turn of events as the rest of us. The scuttlebutt is that Domon is hell-bent on getting Master Asia to come back. Obviously, very disruptive to lose your head coach mid-Gundam fight, but Domon is letting his emotions do the driving, which is how he winds up running headlong into a trap— again! 05:23.541 --> 05:51.974 He's hotheaded, impulsive, and has gotten this far on raw talent and pure fury. On top of that, his wins up until now have made him overconfident, in both himself and in the Shining Gundam. Not to mention that the Shining Gundam's reliability has been an issue all season, with its super mode occasionally failing to engage. That is the danger in being seduced by flashy new tech. Sometimes what you wind up with is bug-prone, finicky junk. 05:51.974 --> 06:22.462 I doubt that overconfidence survived today. Domon was beaten not once but twice by Neo Germany's Gundam fighter Schwarz Brüder, in and out of their respective Gundams. And not just beaten, thoroughly outclassed. And yet, Bruder allowed Domon to stay in the Gundam fight. He did not destroy the Shining Gundam's head. Why fight Domon if not to take him out of the Gundam fight? Why get involved in this Devil Gundam/Master Gundam sideshow at all? 06:22.462 --> 06:43.706 He's styling on the boy. This is about the sponsors. Neo Germany's Gundam fighter remains a total cypher, and the ladies love a cypher. He appeared out of nowhere, never appears in public without a mask, and no one seems to know anything about him. And you're gonna call me crazy, you're gonna say this is a conspiracy theory, but I don't even think Schwarzbryder is his real name. 06:43.706 --> 07:10.760 Setting that aside, for some fighters, their first major loss breaks them. They've got too much ego tied up in being unbeatable. But sometimes, a crushing loss is what motivates a fighter to reach the next level. This could be a real opportunity for Domon, a mid-season reset. Get back into training, focus on fundamentals, maybe recruit some additional support personnel and listen to their advice for a change. Think about how to fight smarter. 07:10.760 --> 07:44.163 Our sources are telling us that Domon is already on his way to the Guiana Highlands for additional training, so you just might get your wish. But I'll say it, I think he's washed. Domon's Gundam fight has been plagued by personal tragedy. His mother's death, his father's trial and imprisonment, the disappearance of his brother, and now the betrayal of his former master. I think this guy has bad vibes. Can he marshal the mental discipline to focus on the fight in front of him? Because Domon is still in this. He is alive, he has a working Gundam with a head, and the Gundam fight is far from over. 07:44.163 --> 07:50.069 Coming up, we look at which countries remain in the Gundam fight and which matchups we think will happen next. 07:50.453 --> 07:51.466 Stay tuned. 07:51.466 --> 08:32.929 I couldn't find the original, uh, and there may not even be an original, but there were a series of posts on social media floating around a while back about how a lot of Sun Tzu's Art of War Feels like common sense, but you have to remember that it was written for, like, aristocratic failsons who suddenly got thrust into positions of authority leading armies in the hopes that they wouldn't fail too catastrophically. Not sure what that has to do with today's episode. 08:32.929 --> 08:45.476 Oh yeah, that's, um, certainly a plausible explanation for the existence of Sun Tzu's Art of War. Uh, I am burdened with knowledge. 08:45.476 --> 08:45.781 Uh. 08:45.781 --> 09:37.060 I've— the research this week is going to be about Sun Tzu's Art of War, or at least the parts of it that Master Asia is quoting throughout this episode. Uh, and we don't super know a lot about the origins of Sun Tzu's The Art of War. We don't even know if there was a guy named Sun Tzu. Um, there's good evidence there wasn't. So yeah, maybe that was its purpose. Anyway, it's a funny— it's a funny meme. Also very funny is the opening of this episode basically has our Shuffle Alliance Gundam fighters hanging out on some rubble as the wind moans, looking at the catastrophic destruction wrought by the Devil Gundam and saying, wow, I don't think we've ever faced a more dangerous opponent than this. And then Chibiti is like, well, but it's not really my problem, is it? Good luck, Domon! 09:37.445 --> 09:38.022 Byeeee! 09:38.551 --> 09:42.865 All of the other Gundam fighters are like, oh yeah! We have other stuff to be doing! 09:42.865 --> 09:47.131 Extreme whistling while walking away energy. 09:47.131 --> 09:55.454 You can just leave. You can walk out. Devil Gundam? Death Army? Powerful mentor turned evil? Not your problem! 09:55.454 --> 10:06.135 Domon's reaction to all of this is to rush headlong into another confrontation, more tired, more injured, and with less help. 10:06.440 --> 10:21.768 He's just playing all the hits at this point. Every episode, Domon finds a new trap to run into. A new and more obvious trap, in fact. But point of order: the first thing he does in response to all of this is to punch a clock. 10:21.768 --> 10:23.768 Indeed. 10:23.768 --> 10:27.004 Now, I think the significance of this is obvious. 10:27.004 --> 10:29.081 He hates time. 10:29.081 --> 10:37.679 No. He is clocking in. He is locking in. He is going to work. It truly is the most obvious trap yet. 10:37.679 --> 10:42.796 And he never considers for a moment that it could be a trap. 10:42.796 --> 10:50.913 I want to defend him. I want to be like, no, no, like, he knows. He's smart enough. He can tell it's a trap, but he believes that he can fight his way through. No. 10:50.913 --> 10:52.180 This is indefensible. 10:52.180 --> 11:04.373 It's so weird. My enemy is just always out of my reach, just slowly retreating away from me, leading me further and further away from town, away from my friends. Into terrain of his choice? 11:04.373 --> 11:14.055 He knows Master Asia can cause hallucinations or visions, yet does nothing to confirm whether the Master Gundam he's seeing is really there. 11:14.055 --> 11:27.157 How does Master Asia create these illusions? A drone swarm? A LSD hallucination? Something like— there's, there's something in the sky, and Rain can see it too. 11:27.981 --> 11:33.425 Obviously he's a wizard. Martial arts key particles. I don't know. 11:33.490 --> 11:40.177 Yes, there we go. Thank you. Martial arts key particles, the explanation for everything. Don't worry about it. Martial arts key particles. 11:40.258 --> 11:51.328 But presumably it can't fool radar or infrared. Like, try something. Go up and try to touch one. I don't know. Like, throw something at it. 11:51.505 --> 11:54.840 I'm so frustrated with Doman at this point. 11:54.905 --> 12:20.173 But this is sort of narratively, the point of the whole episode. We'll get into the nitty-gritty some more, but it's a classic structure in fantasy to have the hero go up against the big bad, or the big bad's underlings, repeatedly, and to lose multiple times, and to need to go on, like, a journey of training and further personal development. 12:20.173 --> 12:20.958 For sure. For sure. 12:20.958 --> 12:26.585 And gather up more allies and all of this, and to go through this whole process before they can then go beat the big bad. 12:26.585 --> 12:36.732 It is time for Dawn. It is time for Domon to be harrowed. It is time for Domon to go through the training process, really grind out the levels and get ready for this final confrontation. 12:36.732 --> 12:38.888 It's time for his Taran Wanderer era. 12:38.888 --> 12:39.532 Yeah, yeah. 12:40.630 --> 12:46.720 However— I have one more point to make about this, then you can pick apart whatever I have to say. 12:46.720 --> 12:50.372 Tom will sit quietly for one more point and then he will make his argument. 12:50.372 --> 13:23.739 Domon is so overconfident in both himself and in the Shining Gundam and the Shining Finger ability. That he has to lose badly. He has to just be completely humiliated on the field of battle in order to make him acknowledge that he is not strong enough and that he needs to go learn more. He needs to be better before he can actually achieve helping or killing Master Asia. And same for Kyoji. Yeah. 13:24.604 --> 13:30.917 I think the prior episode's defeat had adequately demonstrated Dohmon's inferiority. 13:30.917 --> 13:32.620 But not to himself. 13:32.620 --> 13:43.415 Ugh, didn't he use the super mode when he let his energy be slurped into the Devil Gundam? Like, hadn't he already demonstrated sufficiently? 13:43.415 --> 14:01.735 But it's one thing for him to be beat by the Devil Gundam, which is supernatural, or to be beat by Master Asia, who is his teacher, It's another for some rando other Gundam fighter— hello, Schwarzbrüder— uh, to just completely wreck him, to just take him to school. 14:01.735 --> 14:24.651 Sure. But even that was not enough. Even after being completely trounced by Schwarzbrüder twice— 2 times, one on foot, one in the Gundam, which also has feet, so twice on feet but different feet— Nonetheless, Domon still does not conclude that he needs to back off. 14:24.651 --> 14:35.913 I think he had probably come to the same conclusion even before then, when he's basically tied to that cliff after a pretty terrible beating, uh, and being— 14:35.913 --> 14:37.825 When he's pinioned like a butterfly. 14:37.825 --> 14:48.911 And Bruder has just made the point to him like, okay, go ahead, use the Shining Finger, go ahead, it's so all-powerful, use it on me. I'm ready, let's go! And completely fails to do anything. 14:48.911 --> 14:51.499 Well, it's not the shining finger, it's the super mode. 14:51.499 --> 15:07.329 Okay, well, either way, I think at that point he has acknowledged it. That second incident where it activates sort of without his intent really hammers it home for him, but I would argue he'd already come to that conclusion before that last fight. 15:07.329 --> 15:09.794 Okay, but not after his first fight. 15:09.794 --> 15:10.148 No. 15:10.148 --> 15:11.775 Not after the sword incident. 15:11.775 --> 15:19.954 No. Because that wasn't in Gundams, and surely the Shining Gundam and its Super Mode and the Shining Finger Attack make Domon truly unbeatable. 15:19.954 --> 15:24.891 Ugh, so he's trying to rely too much on his powerful Gundam and not enough on his martial skills. 15:24.891 --> 15:41.239 And his own skills and the Gundam are insufficiently reliable. And it's unclear if that's within his control or not, but his gross overconfidence feels particularly silly given that inconsistency, that unreliability. 15:41.992 --> 15:52.717 I think it is an interesting character development that Domon has visibly regressed emotionally since his reunion with Master Asia. 15:52.717 --> 15:53.358 Oh yeah. 15:53.358 --> 16:18.240 We saw this immediately when they first met each other and Domon was acting like a kid again, so happy to be there with his mentor, to have somebody to tell him what to do. But this Domon is not the confident, self-assured, self-reliant Domon that we saw in the first 10 episodes of this show. This is not the globe-trotting, mummy-exploding— this is not the Domon of the first arc. 16:18.240 --> 16:40.328 Which all ties back to my theory about part of why he was so relieved to be reunited with Master Asia was because then he could kind of, like, cede control and cede decision-making to someone else. Oh, thank goodness, I don't have to be in charge of myself anymore. I will put you in charge of me and I will just blindly follow you and trust that this is the right thing to do. 16:40.328 --> 17:05.737 It's sad but also very real that Master Asia will always have a distorted perception of Doumon's capabilities because Doumon will never be his, like, full self when Master Asia is around. You know, I say never. Presumably later in the series he will achieve this, but those you most want to impress are the people you most struggle to show your competency around. 17:06.105 --> 17:17.631 A lot of martial artists and artists would argue that most students reach a point in their development where they need to move on and have other teachers. 17:17.631 --> 17:20.452 And are usually reluctant to do so. 17:20.452 --> 17:44.479 Right. But there is a point where you've gotten as much advancement out of this particular mentor relationship as you're going to, at least at this stage. You might go back to that teacher later, but at a certain point, often you need to expand your horizons, get other perspectives, get other experience, and you can't do that by staying with your first teacher. Mm-hmm. 17:45.056 --> 18:20.607 At a certain point of development as a martial artist, you need to begin modifying your style to better fit your body, your personality, your set of unique capabilities. No one can teach you how to do that except yourself. Inevitably, your instructor will have specialized and tailored their skills, their techniques to their body and personality. And unless you are exactly identical to your instructor in every way, unless you're some sort of clone or robot duplicate, I don't know, you'll never be exactly identical to them. 18:20.607 --> 18:32.201 Well, you have to take responsibility for your own education and improvement. You can no longer assume that this other person will handle all of that for you. 18:32.682 --> 18:48.129 It's like you're on a path following somebody and you reach an obstacle that they traverse easily and you simply can't. So you have to take a detour, and that will lead you on your own path, and then you'll presumably wind up with people following that, trying to imitate you. 18:48.129 --> 19:32.798 You could also make a comparison to, like, graduate school and PhD studies and academia. Through our earlier part of education, We are not, for the most part, encouraged to guide our own education unless you do like unschooling or one of the other niche, uh, schooling methods. Other people are providing you with all of this external structure on what you're learning and how you learn it. But if you want to delve deeper into particular subjects as you get this like grounding of education, eventually that has to be self-guided and you find new mentors and you find new teachers and More and more you're finding people who are more like colleagues than like mentors to learn with and from. 19:32.798 --> 19:55.302 So in both the martial arts and in academia, and presumably in other fields, a person just reaches a point where the only way for them to advance is for their mentor to turn evil, embrace the path of darkness, and betray them, giving them the motivation necessary to break free and develop in their own right. So Master Asia is being Very kind to Domon here. This too is education. 19:55.302 --> 20:03.766 It's the only way to make Domon leave him. It's like a kid trying to get their dog to run away, throwing rocks at the dog. Go away! 20:03.766 --> 20:05.516 I don't want you no mo'! 20:05.516 --> 20:23.773 I'm trying to save you! Nah, I mean, uh, I loved the evil puppet master vibes of Master Asia in this episode, uh, particularly the way Master Asia is drawn in some of these scenes. As though he's looming over the Death Army mobile suits. 20:23.773 --> 20:28.604 And the ones that face Domon in battle, he really is like controlling them like puppets. 20:28.604 --> 20:43.788 It is a classic of wuxia that you'll get moments where a student and teacher are suddenly on opposite sides of a conflict and the teacher's like, ha, do you think I taught you everything I know? He didn't teach him everything. 20:45.178 --> 21:04.847 I want to say there's a bit in one of the Swordsman movies because, uh, the character from whom Master Asia takes his name fights with like embroidery needles that are still attached to thread. And I want to say there's at least one fight where she uses the needles to control people like puppets. 21:04.847 --> 21:14.785 Yeah, that, that definitely happened. Man, I love Do Mon. He's not smart. I don't understand. 21:14.785 --> 21:25.539 He's our first true jock Gundam boy. In our good dumb space boy graph, Domon is off the charts on dumb. 21:25.539 --> 21:42.976 Yeah. That he can, without irony, be chasing after Master Asia and say, Master taught me you should always seek the high ground. And never for a moment considers, yeah, and he knows he taught you that. My guy. 21:42.976 --> 21:58.009 I think Dong-won is supposed to be 20 or something. It is a very characteristic behavior for a 20-year-old to be like, I have taken one class on this subject and I'm an expert. I know everything there is to know about strategy and tactics because I took it at college. 21:58.009 --> 22:01.452 Hello, I just finished Philosophy 101. 22:01.452 --> 22:04.179 And I'd love to talk to you about Friedrich Nietzsche. 22:05.227 --> 22:44.525 From a more sort of metaphysical perspective, we could also see Domon's insistence that the Shining Gundam Super Mode is enough to win, that it is unbeatable, as this feeling that tapping into his emotions, but especially his anger, will be enough to win. And he does invoke not just anger, but he says, my anger, my love, and all of my sorrow. But it's still not enough. He needs to— he needs to learn to be able to go beyond that, or to be able to tap into that without losing control of himself in the way he does when he lets the anger take over. 22:44.525 --> 22:56.992 I mean, it doesn't matter how much power you have if you can't even find your target. Both Schwarze Brüder and Master Asia have now demonstrated a capacity for illusion, deception, disappearance. 22:58.791 --> 23:13.365 I laughed so hard, uh, when Brooder first appears because he's like reverse koala'd to the trunk of a tree. He's gripping it with his arms and legs, but he's facing outwards with his invisibility cloak thing over him. 23:13.365 --> 23:35.640 Although in this case, it's not even an invisibility cloak. It's just like a sheet, a tarp that's been painted to look like the side of a tree. This is extremely old-school camouflage. I was half expecting Domon to attack him and think he had managed to hit, but then realize that Bruta had been replaced by a log. 23:35.640 --> 23:42.646 So I can't believe I didn't think about this the moment you pointed out that Bruta means brother. 23:42.646 --> 23:46.339 Oh, I cut that from the episode. 23:46.339 --> 23:51.518 Well, you did tell me that when he first made his appearance. 23:51.518 --> 24:01.600 If you listened to the outtakes where I was like, I don't think saying what words mean is a spoiler. Spoiler. That was because I had told Nina that Schwarzbüder means dark brother. 24:01.600 --> 24:33.944 Now, of course, I have a number of theories as to his real identity. Either that he's a clone of Kyoji, or perhaps the one running the Devil Gundam is a clone, or perhaps this is the real Kyoji and the Kyoji that we see with the Devil Gundam is some kind of an illusion. Or perhaps Domon had a secret brother that he didn't know about. Uh, Bruta might have been another student of Master Asia's at some point. 24:33.944 --> 24:36.062 So Domon's like martial arts brother. 24:36.062 --> 24:42.831 Right, because Domon does mention that there was something familiar about this other fighter when they were fighting. 24:42.831 --> 24:53.317 And Master Asia doesn't know who Bruta is either. He's very curious about that too, which would suggest narratively That it's somebody they both know. Or knew. 24:53.317 --> 24:56.006 Who is he? What is his interest in Domon? 24:56.006 --> 24:57.922 Where did he get that silly hat? 24:57.922 --> 25:13.195 Another point that stood out to me: Master Asia's plan is to capture Domon, not to kill him. And despite everything that's happened, Domon gets mad at Bruta for trying to kill Master Asia. 25:13.195 --> 25:38.804 Well, Domon wants to save him. He truly believes it can still be done. I mean, remember, Domon refused to strike a killing blow against Kyoji. Domon's stated motivation for being in the tournament is that he's trying to clear his dad's name and get his dad released from, uh, time prison. Now he wants to save Master Asia. Domon wants to save everyone. Domon wants to get through this run without having to kill anybody. 25:38.804 --> 26:01.644 Is Domon ever going to have the conflicted moment which we would get in almost any contemporary series Where he admits to someone, probably Reine, that he loves and admires his father, but what was his father doing developing something like the Devil Gundam? What was this for? If his father was such a good guy, why was he making such a destructive and dangerous thing in secret? 26:01.644 --> 26:15.691 I mean, a lot of this show, like a lot of martial arts stuff and the wuxia fiction that it's based on, is unconsciously importing a lot of Confucian values. Like, it doesn't matter if his dad is a good guy or not. His dad is his dad. 26:15.691 --> 26:16.996 He still owes his dad. 26:16.996 --> 26:30.535 Right. He has filial duty. Though the question of what exactly was the point of the Devil Gundam— now that is an interesting question. Maybe it was just meant to be Neo Japan's Gundam for the, for the next tournament. I mean, it's pretty powerful. 26:30.535 --> 26:35.157 But then why develop it in secret and get raided by the government? 26:35.157 --> 26:38.567 Well, that could just be like internal government politics. 26:38.567 --> 26:39.003 Ehhhh. 26:40.017 --> 26:43.995 Maybe the faction that they were part of fell into disrepute. 26:43.995 --> 27:06.255 See, I, I have a sneaking suspicion that when we finally get at what this is really about, it was an attempt to make a weapon so big that even the Gundam fight wouldn't have to happen anymore. This is another one of those, if I build a weapon big enough, then war will never happen ever again. Hmm. 27:07.493 --> 27:10.674 And is the idea then that it gives Japan permanent hegemony? 27:10.674 --> 27:15.013 Or forces the nations of the world to work more cooperatively? 27:15.013 --> 27:22.243 Maybe they could have gotten Master Asia to pilot it, and then the Shuffle Alliance could rule openly over all the colonies. 27:22.243 --> 28:19.917 We joked about the other Gundam fighters who are now members of the Shuffle Alliance reacting to this last loss with, well, not my problem! But 2 support characters apparently do think it should concern them all. The 2 monks accompanying Sae Saichi. He describes them as hung up on the Devil Gundam as they are all leaving. Perhaps because more than the other support staff who are either in it to support their particular Gundam fighter or to support their nation, these 2 also see themselves as being responsible for Saisaiji's further development as a person because he's still a child. It's like, oh, we have to teach him correct principles. We have to teach him how to be a good, responsible person. And to them, that includes, hey, this big bad might be more important than the Gundam fight. 28:19.917 --> 29:07.303 They're also, I think, the only Earthnoids in the cast, at least amongst the support staff. Because I think Chibidi and all of his girls live up in Neo-America. Ditto George and his butler. Same with Argo and— well, I mean, Argo is imprisoned down here, but he's a space pirate. And his handler Natasha? She's probably named Natasha. She's, you know, Neo-Russian. So these 2 monks from the original Shaolin Temple are more invested in what's going on on Earth. It may be short-sighted to say, oh, the Devil Gundam is only a problem on Earth, but for the moment at least, it kind of is. Everybody else can just go home. 29:07.303 --> 29:20.888 Again, in the absence of some kind of leadership, it probably is best for everybody to go back to the Gundam fight. It's not as though Domon is saying, okay, here's what we need to do so that we win next time. 29:20.888 --> 29:23.800 I don't need your help and I want you to hang out with me and like, no, no. 29:23.800 --> 29:24.730 Right. So, uh... 29:26.823 --> 29:38.808 They also all found out fairly recently, in the last episode I think, that the Devil Gundam's, like, creator, pilot, commander, whatever— this is— they found out that this is Domon's problem. 29:38.808 --> 29:41.785 Yep. This is who Domon's been looking for the whole time. 29:41.785 --> 30:02.289 Before this, they thought it was a general problem. It had kidnapped all of them, it was interfering in the Gundam fight, but now they can clearly see that this is Domon's quest. This is marked in his color. This is his hero's journey to complete. They don't have any reason to stick around. Good luck, buddy. Hope you win. 30:02.289 --> 30:11.237 We'll see you in the Gundam fight. All the other G Fighters, except for Saisaiji, make a point of going to say goodbye to Reine. 30:11.237 --> 30:17.181 Though it's mostly the support staff who are saying goodbye. Like, George gives her a flower and everything, but it's— 30:17.181 --> 30:32.532 Although, um, it did seem as though George was surprised that his butler kissed Raine's hand, and that George might not have said anything more than, all right, see you around, but in his flowery way, if his butler hadn't insisted. Like, you better thank her. 30:32.532 --> 30:55.199 Well, apparently the butler was George's tutor as a child. He taught George sword fighting. He taught George chivalry. Presumably he taught George about how to romance the ladies. And soon he will turn evil and And George will be driven away to go off on his own path to discover his own techniques, his own style of romancing the ladies. 30:55.199 --> 31:02.275 No, because the butler is definitely an Alfred from Batman, not a martial arts teacher from wuxia. 31:02.275 --> 31:10.201 I thought we established earlier that all teachers have to turn evil in order for their students to reach the level of master themselves. 31:10.201 --> 31:21.874 Oh man, my own calligraphy teacher is running out of time to turn evil then. She's already 103. Trying to imagine what sort of evil a 103-year-old could get up to. 31:21.874 --> 31:24.602 It would have to be calligraphy-themed evil, too. 31:24.602 --> 31:26.189 Mmm. 31:26.189 --> 31:33.422 Mmm. Did you notice that I think for 2 episodes now, Argo has not said a word? 31:33.422 --> 31:33.729 Yep. 31:33.729 --> 31:39.611 The strong, silent type whose voice actor might be more expensive than the others. Or just busier. 31:39.611 --> 31:43.892 They also don't have anything for him to say, really. Yeah. 31:44.429 --> 31:53.496 Again, they have got too many characters. They need to split this group up again because this is unwieldy. There is not enough for everybody to do. 31:53.496 --> 31:59.948 Is our mysterious masked gentleman going to be Domon's new teacher? Hmm. 32:00.767 --> 32:02.564 I don't think they have that relationship. 32:02.564 --> 32:41.117 They don't yet. And Bruta certainly isn't, like, offering that, at least in this episode. In this episode, he's just telling Domon how overconfident and deluded he is. But Domon has learned to respect this other fighter's abilities. Uh, he has that moment with the rusty sword. How did he cut through this whole tree with a rusty sword? And we know from the opening he continues to carry this sword. It continues to be with him for an extended period of time. So I can imagine the two of them running into each other later and Domon saying, hey, one of the only people who has ever beat me in a fight. I want you to teach me. 32:41.117 --> 33:18.120 Buddha is strong, stronger than Doumon at this point, but their fighting styles are incompatible. What could Doumon learn from this stealthy German ninja? Like, is Doumon going to benefit from camouflage? Is Doumon going to benefit from, uh, like, learning how to throw ninja stars? No. The only thing Buddha has to teach Doumon is how much he still needs to learn. And that lesson has been imparted. And probably what is going to happen sometime in the future, we're going to see him get absolutely squashed in order to demonstrate how dangerous a new opponent is. 33:18.120 --> 33:54.097 I could see Bruta being less of a martial arts teacher and more of a strategy teacher, like how to take all of these principles that you were instructed in, but that you apply in a really, like, facile way. and actually apply them to your knowledge of your opponent, your knowledge of, uh, different locations, uh, to actually think strategically and apply those principles in a more complex way. And now we are off to South America, to the Guiana Highlands. 33:54.097 --> 33:57.888 You ever think about how G Gundam is the most Christian of Gundams? 33:57.888 --> 34:00.227 No, I can't say that I have. 34:00.602 --> 34:06.517 Domon spends his life traveling the world with missionary zeal, hoping to save people from the devil. 34:06.517 --> 34:19.645 But only the people he loves, and he doesn't love everyone. Do you think they picked the Guiana Highlands just to, like, hit a new part of the Earth? Or is it because of the preponderance of waterfalls that will make for great training montages? 34:19.645 --> 34:38.502 I know for a fact, because I've read the interviews about this, that it has a lot more to do with the background art than anything else. They basically wanted to go somewhere where they could reuse the same background art over and over again without it being too obvious or repetitive. 34:38.502 --> 34:41.634 We're tired of ruined cities. Take us to the jungles. 34:41.634 --> 35:45.814 We're tired of having to draw a new ruined city every week. The background artists for this show were working overtime. The cast got pinned down in Shinjuku for as long as they did Because the, the background team was like, please, we have to stop going to a new location every week. And I understand that the trip to the Guiana Highlands is meant to give them a bit of a break. Probably they can reuse existing backgrounds from other shows. After all, a beautiful jungle is a beautiful jungle. Over on the other side, Master Asia is interestingly not speaking to Kyoji. But addressing the Devil Gundam directly. In fact, there's no sign of Kyoji in this episode. The Devil Gundam almost has a personality. It reminds me of like Sailor Moon or some Sentai, or I'm not ashamed to again admit that my main referent for this is Power Rangers, but where you have like the battle leader, the general, but then there's also a more powerful but in some way restrained true villain. 35:45.814 --> 35:45.944 Yeah. 35:46.453 --> 36:06.905 who is trapped in another dimension and needs to be freed, or laboring under some sort of curse. But anyway, there's like— the main villain that we see is doing everything on behalf of another more powerful villain in the background. But then seeing Master Asia like giving lectures to the McEllitons, to the zombies— 36:06.905 --> 36:08.849 Must just like to hear himself talk. 36:08.849 --> 36:36.432 Well, they seem to be listening with a kind of rudimentary intelligence. They're certainly intelligent enough. I truly believe that this was them and not Master Asia to disguise themselves with like bat ears and fake wings to make themselves look a little bit like the Master Gundam. I choose to believe that they have enough intelligence to like idolize the Master Gundam, to see it as their big brother and mentor figure, and to try to imitate it. 36:36.432 --> 36:47.587 Here's a question for you. Have we heard Kyoji speak at all? Not in the flashback. The flashback memory thing doesn't— hallucination doesn't count. 36:47.587 --> 36:49.208 I don't believe so. 36:49.208 --> 36:59.050 Because this is yet another point in the that Kyoji is possibly fake or a hallucination or in some way not the real Kyoji column. 36:59.050 --> 36:59.243 Hmm. 36:59.243 --> 37:18.868 They can fake the appearance but not the voice. Whoever they might be. Hmm. 37:18.868 --> 48:28.611 Like we said during the talkback, Master Asia spends a good part of this episode quoting from the ancient Chinese treatise on military strategy, The Art of War, traditionally attributed to Sun Tzu, or Master-Son. And, as I mentioned, the work's origin and authorship is somewhat obscure. Not shocking for a book of such antiquity. It was probably written early in the 5th century BC, around the time of the Battle of Marathon in Europe, during an epoch of turmoil in China, the so-called Spring and Autumn Period. In its opening lines about a later period of Chinese history, the historical novel The Romance of the Three Kingdoms describes the dynastic cycle in these memorable terms: The empire, long divided, must unite; long united, must divide. Thus it has ever been. And the Spring and Autumn period, the 3 centuries from around 770 BC to around 480 BC, is the latter sort of era. After centuries of rule, the Zhou dynasty was in terminal decline, its western lands lost, its capital sacked, its rulers reduced to figureheads, and its vassals at each other's throats, the weaker among them being gobbled up by their hungry neighbors. One of the more powerful players in the collapsing Zhou world was the kingdom of Wu. Its territory lay on the eastern coast of China, at the mouth of the Yangtze River, encompassing modern Shanghai and Nanjing. It reached the apex of its power around 500 BC, triumphing in a series of wars against its northern and western rivals, before it was overthrown and annexed by the upstart Yue Kingdom less than 3 decades later, an event which coincided with the end of the Spring and Autumn period and the beginning of China's Warring States period. Tradition holds that Sun Tzu was a general serving the kings of Wu during their great triumphs, and that he wrote The Art of War for the benefit of the king before the downfall of that kingdom. But this biography was not written down until centuries after the events in question, and is probably entirely fictional. There are extensive records of the major figures of the Spring and Autumn period written much closer to the events themselves, and they contain no mention of Sun Tzu. The story that is usually told about him is as follows: that he offered his services to the King of Wu, who had the bright idea to test this would-be general's skill in managing armies. He brought out his harem, 180 concubines, and asked Sun Tzu to train them as soldiers, presumably for the amusement of the court. The general divided this army into 2 units and assigned the king's 2 favorite companions as their officers. He demonstrated the basic techniques of marching, issued them with weapons for drill, had the drummers beat out the time, and began giving orders. But the women did not obey, instead dissolving into peals of laughter at what a good joke this was. So Sun Tzu announced, If the words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, then the general is to blame. So he resumed drilling them, showed them again how to march, and when he was satisfied, repeated his orders. But when this produced the same unimpressive results as before, he declared, When the orders are clear and the soldiers nonetheless disobey, then the fault lies with their officers. And he ordered that the two concubine captains be beheaded. The king, seeing his favorites led off to their execution, sent an urgent message to the general that he was in fact quite satisfied by the performance already and would be happy to employ him. And let's not execute anyone, please and thank you. But Sun Tzu replied, "Having received His Majesty's commission to be the general of his forces, there are certain commands of His Majesty which." in that capacity, I am unable to accept. The execution went forward, the 2 favorites were beheaded, the next 2 concubines in precedence were installed in their place, Sun Tzu repeated his orders, and this time the concubines performed the drill without fault— and without making a sound. The King, although depressed, was sufficiently impressed and appointed Sun Tzu to lead his armies. Or so the story goes. Likewise, the tradition records that the text was written for the benefit of the King of Wu, but this is no more reliable than the stories about its authorship. As Nina mentioned, there are some very funny jokes going around about how The Art of War is a remedial instruction manual for aristocratic failsons being given their first military command, and it is full of what appear to us to be truisms like, The point of war is victory, not lengthy campaigns. And common-sense instructions like, marching all day is tiring, and tired soldiers fight poorly. Do not seek battle if you have been marching all day. The kind of things that a Garmazabi-like pampered brat, who rides around in a litter and never has to think about where his next meal is coming from, might need to hear. But that has not been the work's reputation throughout the millennia. Plenty of China's greatest military leaders took it quite seriously, and many of them wrote commentaries on the text, which were then included alongside it in historical editions. The actual Art of War is, let's say, concise, and it benefits significantly from this explication. The earliest surviving of these commentaries was written by the warlord Cao Cao— yes, that Cao Cao— Who wrote that The Art of War was the most profound book he had ever read on the subject of war and fighting. Still, it was widely read and became one of the cornerstones of elite education, meaning that, yes, some number of pampered princelings over the years must have looked up from their study of Sun Tzu and said, Oh! Soldiers need food to live, and they need to be alive to fight! That makes so much sense once you think about it! Ah, I'd better make sure to bring some food on my next campaign. But there is no reason why Domhnall nor Master Asia should care too much about the origins, authorship, or purpose of The Art of War, They are fighters, not scholars. Practical men with practical needs. So what lessons does Master Asia take from the text? Before I start breaking down these references with specificity, let me note that I'll be quoting and paraphrasing from the English subtitles for Master Asia and from the 1910 translation by the British sinologist Lionel Giles for The Art of War, which has the singular advantage of being in the public domain. And no, Lionel Giles is not the same Giles who developed the Wade-Giles system of romanization for Chinese. That was his dad. Early on in the episode, Master Asia tells his audience of loyal McEllitons that there are 9 geographic types, and Domon is bound for the perfect spot for an ambush. Later, he talks about 6 geographic obstacles, including a specific one, which the subs render as Natural mesh. Despite these similar names, he's actually referring here to 2 separate lists that have been extracted from Chapter 10, Terrain, and Chapter 11, The 9 Situations. The use of terms like geographic and terrain in English gives a somewhat false impression. Though The Art of War describes 6 types of ground in Chapter 10 and 9 types of ground in Chapter 11, Only about half of them in each list actually deal with definite geographic features as we would think of them. The rest are more about the relative positions of the armies, or political terrain in a sense. Of the 6 types of terrain in chapter 10, the first is accessible ground, in which both sides may move easily, and whoever is first to occupy the high ground will hold the advantage. Domon seems to have learned this part of the lesson, because he rushes to occupy the high ground, believing that it will give him an advantage. But it turns out that he has misjudged the terrain, and in any event, he has missed the opportunity to seize the position. When Master Asia then describes the situation as a natural mesh, he is referring to the second type of terrain: entangling ground, or in the commentary, net-like country. This is land in which the difficulty of movement makes any kind of orderly retreat impossible. So here, one must not attack unless one can be sure of victory, because even a small defeat will swiftly turn into complete disaster. And evidently, this is Master Asia's plan: lure Domon into terrain that makes retreat impossible, trick him into making a rash attack, and thereby effect his capture. Entangling ground is also discussed somewhat in the preceding chapter 9, which covers marching and encampment. There it says, Country in which there are precipitous cliffs with torrents running between them, deep natural hollows, confined places, tangled thickets, quagmires, and crevasses should be left with all possible speed and not approached. While we keep away from such places, we should get the enemy to approach them. While we face them, we should get the enemy to have them on his rear. So unlike Domon, the wise general, looking at this situation, would simply say, I don't want any part of that, and turn around. Now the 3rd type of ground is any which makes attack difficult and defense easy, in which you should feign weakness in order to induce the enemy to attack you, while being on guard against similar lures and ruses from the other side. 4th and 5th are narrow passes and precipitous heights, which are counted as separate types, but are subject to the same advice: get there first, establish strong garrisons, and then wait for the enemy. And if you should discover that the enemy has also read his The Art of War and has garrisoned the passes or heights against your coming and is now waiting for you, then turn around and find something else for your army to do. The final, 6th type of terrain covers any situation in which the 2 army camps are a great distance apart. Do not seek battle under these circumstances, Sun Tzu writes, because marching all day will make your army tired and bad at fighting. The consistent theme throughout is that 2 generals might spend years maneuvering their armies around each other, only to then wager the fate of their kingdoms and the many thousands of lives of their soldiers in just a single day of battle. So under no circumstances should a general ever allow their army to be drawn into battle On unfavorable ground. As for what Master Asia calls the 9 geographic types, and which Giles refers to as the 9 situations, they are: 1, dispersive ground; 2, facile ground; 3, contentious ground; 4, open ground; 5, ground of intersecting highways; 6, serious ground; 7, Difficult ground. 48:28.611 --> 48:31.307 Hemmed-in ground. 48:31.307 --> 54:57.220 Desperate or death ground. What The Art of War calls dispersive ground is your own territory, so-called because your soldiers are operating near to their own homes, and so they will be tempted to disperse at the first opportunity, either sneaking away when they get homesick or fleeing if they become frightened. So here, The wise general is instructed to avoid battle and to inspire his men with unity of purpose. Second, an army might find itself in hostile territory, but near enough to the border to make retreat easy and therefore tempting. From the easiness of retreat, they get the term facile ground. So here the wise general must keep his army moving and ensure that all units are in close communication in order to prevent desertion. Third, contentious ground is ground which confers a great advantage on whichever side holds it, like a narrow mountain pass. Here again the wise general should rush to occupy the strong point, but, if they should find that the enemy already holds it, withdraw instead. Fourth, when in open ground both armies are able to maneuver easily, and it is pointless to try to obstruct the enemy's movement. However, you must take extra care to secure your supply lines against fast-moving raiders. Fifth, what the text calls ground of intersecting highways is actually a way of referring to a place where the 2 belligerent states share borders with at least one neutral. In that case, the general ought to focus on pursuing alliances with those neighbors. Sixth, if you are deep in the heart of hostile territory, you are on serious ground, with danger in every direction. In that case, you ought to take the opportunity to plunder the countryside, feeding your army on the produce of the enemy. And this echoes an instruction earlier in The Art of War in chapter 2 to forage on the land of the enemy, for one cartload of stolen provisions is as good as 20 of your own. This is doubly important when deep in enemy territory because you might be stuck there for a while, with no access to your own supply depots. 7th, if you absolutely must pass through mountains, forests, marshes, or fens— difficult ground— then the best thing to do is just keep moving and get out of it again as soon as possible. 8th is hemmed-in ground. That is to say, when your army is trapped in a bad position and unable to maneuver freely to get out of it. Say that you have a strong enemy behind you and only narrow passages in front. Here, Sun Tzu can only suggest the use of some kind of stratagem or trick to distract the enemy's attention while you sneak away as fast as you can. But what if you find yourself with no chance of retreat whatsoever? In that case, you are on desperate ground, the 9th and final situation. This situation affords no possibility of escape, and the army's survival depends entirely on victory in battle. The only thing to do here is to fight immediately. But an army on desperate ground will fight with unmatched ferocity, and the clever general might just contrive to put his army into dire straits in order to overcome a stronger opponent. And so Master Sun advises the reader, that there are times when you should burn your boats and break your cooking pots. That is to say, find your own desperate ground, and so inspire your troops to the heights of martial valor. And this is kind of what happens to Domon when he gets pinioned at the end of this episode. He is in the most desperate possible straits. He has no chance of escape, no chance of survival unless he fights. And that's when his super mode comes out. Though the Discourses on Terrain are the most substantive of Master Asia's lectures on strategy, they are not the only bits he has cribbed from Sun Tzu. At around 6 and a half minutes into the episode, while Domon is fruitlessly chasing the illusory Master Gundam, the former King of Hearts declares, According to the Art of War, battle is the practical application of both simple and mysterious tactics. They should be used constantly, like a flow of water. Compare this to Chapter 5: In all fighting, the direct method may be used for joining battle, but indirect methods will be needed in order to secure victory. Indirect tactics are inexhaustible as heaven and earth, unending as the flow of rivers and streams. The lecture then continues. As Domon races along the coast road, Master Asia appears in the sky above him to say, battle serves as a warning against hasty action. Understand your own strength; learn the enemy's movements. Those who ignore this and take their enemy lightly will fall into enemy hands. Here he refers to one of The Art of War's most consistent themes: knowledge is the key to victory. In Chapter 1, Sun Tzu wrote that the general who wins makes many calculations before the battle is fought; the general who loses makes few. In Chapter 6: Scheme to discover the enemy's plans, rouse him, and learn the principle of his activity or inactivity. Carefully compare the opposing army to your own. Indeed, one of The Art of War's most famous lines hits on this principle: If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of 100 battles. Then a refrain several chapters later: If you know the enemy and know yourself, your victory will not stand in doubt. If you know Heaven and know Earth, you may make your victory complete. Good advice, if perhaps somewhat trite. But unfortunately, it seems that Master Asia has neglected to study the secret 14th chapter of The Art of War, which begins, as Master Sun says, you don't need to know the enemy or yourself so long as you know how to activate the Shining Gundam's super mode. It truly is a timeless document. I should also just note, I don't know if Master Asia is quoting directly from a Japanese translation, I kind of suspect he is, given the, like, specific tenor of his language. But if he is, I couldn't find it. There are a bunch of Japanese translations, and searching all of them for these lines is well beyond my ability. 54:57.220 --> 56:32.205 The bit about, um, I forget what term you used, but like critical crucial ground, like, that's one that comes up all the time in, like, historical fiction or, like, loosely fictionalized Uh, you know, media about famous battles. They're like, and they fought really well because they had nowhere to escape to. It was fight really good or die. Next week on MSB, episode 11.18, Cowardly Tiger, Headstrong Dragon. We'll research and discuss G Gundam episode 18 and Destined rival. The great and beautiful city of Manhattan. He's got the yips! A New York tradition, receiving advice from strangers. They left me! My 4 wives left me! And they took the boat! Girl gang. Fish pedicure. We've stolen the Shining Gundam's data, all 1.44 megabytes. Twin flames. Domon's guardian angel. And there's nothing more American than hot babes, wanton destruction, and protecting immigrants from the space feds. Ready? 56:40.893 --> 57:56.659 Go! Mobile Suit Breakdown is written, recorded, and produced by us, Tom and Nina, in scenic New York City within the ancestral and unceded land of the Lenape people, and made possible by listeners like you. The opening track is Wasp by Misha Dioksen. The closing music is Long Way Home by Spinning Ratio, and the recap music is Window by 1000 Hands. You can find links to the sources for our research, the music used in the episode, additional information about the Lenape people, and more in the show notes on our website, Gundampodcast.com. You can get in touch with us by email at hosts@gundampodcast.com. If you'd like to support the show, please tell your friends Tell your friends about us, leave us a nice review wherever you listen to podcasts, or if you'd like to support us financially, you can do so at gundampodcast.com/patreon. Or look for other ways to support the show at gundampodcast.com/support. Most of all, thank you for listening. Wow, bass, bass, bass, bass, bass, bass, bass. 58:04.837 --> 58:13.587 And I'm plagued by sirens. Sounds like some sort of pirate curse. Plagued by sirens. 58:14.580 --> 58:15.720 Sirens. 58:15.720 --> 58:25.924 Yeah. Or the name of a metal band. Free band name, everybody. 58:25.924 --> 58:49.924 So this is a good opportunity to mention the insert song, which plays quietly in the background of the last scene, when Domon is acknowledging his own weaknesses And resolving to return to the Guiana Highlands. We closed the door. 58:52.269 --> 59:07.934 Nor has she cried because we've had the door shut. That child, on the other hand, they were yelling, "Yay!" They're just so excited about future. G Gundam. 59:14.650 --> 59:18.839 But they've already killed Neo Egypt's Gundam. But they've already killed Neo Egypt. 59:19.321 --> 59:21.156 You can say already if that works better for you. 59:21.237 --> 59:51.426 I'm just messing it up. We have recruited our nation's most impulsive, angry young Now to sit back and watch him win the tournament through a series of rational, carefully considered choices with strategy and tactics. You have 4 wives and you're not even sharing them with me? 59:51.943 --> 59:53.008 Rude. Why should I? 59:53.008 --> 59:53.686 Ugh! 59:53.686 --> 59:54.687 Anyway— 59:54.687 --> 59:55.688 I share everything with you. 59:55.688 --> 59:57.787 Anyway, they're gone now and they took my boat. 59:58.312 --> 59:58.938 You had a boat? 59:58.938 --> 59:59.772 Not anymore.