Hey, all, Marty here. And today we got a special guest with us, a personal friend of mine, Evan Starnes from aftersight. How you doing, Evan?
I'm doing pretty good, man. Thanks for having me on the show.
Yeah, no problem.
Absolutely.
So I thought we would kind of talk about your audio background, how you got started in it. So why don't we start there?
Yeah. So my audio background is a whole big kind of rabbit hole, so I'll keep it nice and concise. But basically, I've kind of always had an ear for audio. I mean, I remember I always like to say when I first got into audio is when I first started playing around with little micro cassette recorders when I was a little kid, you know, going and recording things around the house. And then eventually I figured out you could plug in headphones and then hear the microphone. You know, you could hear the direct output of the microphone, which kind of just got me into even more, just experimenting around with. With microphones and just kind of just horsing around for the fun of it. Like, you know, I wasn't making any podcasts or anything. A lot of cassette recordings. I think we, especially if you're a kid that grew up in, like, the nineties, early two thousands, most likely, you've probably got your own personal cassette recordings lying around.
Oh, yeah. What was your first microphone? When you were messing around with that, like, that little setup, you know, you had your little things that you were messing around with at that time. The first microphone you got, what was that?
Oh, man. The first microphone that I ever got, actually, that I ever used for a long period, really was. I don't even know what brand it was. It came with a cassette recorder, and it plugged into a three and a half millimeter jack. And I mean, honestly, now that I look back, the thing was, it got me by, but it was a hunk of junk. I mean, a little plastic doodad. You know, you could angle the little mic up and down. I think it was just a basic little condenser mic, but that's really kind of how I first got it. And then eventually I was just getting by with the really crummy, tinny laptop microphone in my Lenovo. And then eventually I wanted a desktop, and I didn't have, you know, it was a tower, so I didn't have a mic built into it. So believe it or not, for a month, I ended up using a cassette recorder plugged into the line in port or jack on the back of the computer as a microphone. Super, like, Jerry rigged up, but it worked. And then eventually I got this mic that I've been just holding onto for dear life. It's a blue yeti. Pretty much the infamous first person mic, I guess you could say.
And did you get that blue yeti when it originally came out? Does it actually have the blue brand still on it, or is it a Logitech version of the Yeti?
Nope. This one does have the blue branding on it. On the front of it, it's got the blue logo. It says blue in the biggest metal embossed print. I think I got it back in, like, 2016 or 2017, back when they seemed to be the big thing in the blind community, at least. At least the circles I was in. A lot of people. A lot of people wanted them and had them and recorded with them.
So is that like, the one vertically? It looks like an oval, kind of like a pill, basically.
Now this one looks kind of more like a water bottle, actually. It's. It's got, like, this big, heavy stand that it sits in with, like, little holes that you can run wire through. And then the mic itself, it really looks a lot like. Like your standard, like, handheld mic. You know, it's. I got this, like, kind of like.
An ice cream cone style.
Yeah, it actually looks like one of those fake ice cream cones on the top because I put a. I have a windscreen on the top of it just. Just to kind of at least help with some of the plosives. I can't. Like when it comes to audio, I think plosives are probably my biggest pet peeve.
I think we all have those. And are you running that through an interface or is that one just going straight into the computer?
No, it's just straight into the computer through USB. I do have a couple of interfaces lying around. I got a Personas audio box, usb 96 over on the Mac mini setup. And then at work, I brought my focusrite Scarlett solo, one of the new ones that has USB c. And wow.
It said.
It mentioned having two inputs, and so I thought they were like the combined XLR quarter inch, but nope, one of them was an XLR and the other one was a quarter inch and originally bought it for the keyboard, for my keyboard. So I could plug my keyboard into it, but it didn't quite work out that way, so. Yeah, and that's why I ended up with that Personas. But, you know, being an audio geek, I've got a lot of that junk just lying around.
So someone was looking to get into podcasting these days. You know, they're just getting started. You know, they want to do something. If you were to suggest, like, a microphone, that would be great. That would be, you know, a. Someone who's just getting into it and they're not sure what to get. What would your suggestion be for a good starter microphone?
Oh, man. Honestly, I've always leaned in the blue Logitech direction, depending on your price range, though. So, yeah, if you're. If you're looking to get, like, you know, $50 or under price range, hands down, the. The blue slash Logitech. The snowball. They still call it the snowball. It's a. It's a condenser mic. It has one polar pattern, though, so, you know, you're kind of just stuck with the way it sounds unless you do some, you know, apply some digital EQ or effect, which I'm not a fan of those, but, you know, it's a great little mic. You know, it comes with a little stand, like, tripod stand, plugs into your computer through USB. I think the. I know the snowball ice is also an option. It's. It's okay, but it tends to be a little bit more noisy, and I generally prefer the sound of the snowball if you want something a little higher quality. Used to. I used to recommend the blue yeti because, you know, it's got four different polar patterns, so you can really tune it to your. The way you want it to sound. But now there's. There's a new one out. It's been out for a couple years called the Quadcast, and it's made by HyperX. And that one's a lot nicer because it not only comes with a proper shock mount, so you can. But it also has a nice little stand. And it's considerably smaller than the blue Yeti. Like, the blue yeti is probably as wide as, like, a bottle of soda. The quad cast is probably as wide as, like, a can of soda. And it's shorter and just a better mic all round. I think it just. It sounds a little more rich sounding, too. So cool. But how I got into audio, well, how I got into aftersight is really because of all of that, because I. I enjoyed messing with mics. I eventually, you know, I got past cassette recorders and got, like, my first digital recorder, a Tascam doctor 45, I think, or something like that. I still have it. And eventually I, you know, I wanted to learn editing and I wanted to learn how to, you know, make a podcast intro, like a little music bed, how to fade out, how to. Do you know, what they call audio ducking and just, you know, just some basic editing. So I didn't read the manual or anything. I literally just got bored one day and threw audacity on my laptop and then opened it up and then just hit record and just started kind of messing around with the menus and eventually kind of learned more of the key commands and just kind of started horsing around.
So at this point, are you still using audacity, or did you graduate from audacity?
I consider that I've graduated from audacity, but when it comes to work, like, because that's what we use with our volunteers, and that's the program we support, honestly, I can get by with it just for my purposes here. You know, I do a lot of podcasts, editing, post production, little short form audio content like psas and stuff. And, you know, it has more than enough tools to get me by. And I'm just, you know, I'm so. My muscle memory is so centered into audacity, but autopilot. Autopilot, yeah, dude, I autopilot for sure.
Yeah.
But I had originally thought I was going to get into it. I, you know, I've always enjoyed taking apart computers and working physically with hardware, and then I kind of, you know, I ended up going to a Colorado center in little ten for, like, nine months for their little training program. And honestly, that was a really big growing up period for me. And I eventually I was offered an internship by one of the tech instructors, and the internship was with aftersight, formerly audio information network, at the time. And I, you know, it sounded pretty interesting. They were looking for somebody to help edit audio for them and to, you know, help volunteer volunteers just kind of work on their improving. Improving their audio quality because this is, like, right smack in the middle of COVID when everybody was still recording from home. And there was a lot to. There was a lot, really, to kind of to improve when it came to our, just our volunteer base and people's audio quality. So I jumped on a Zoom call with Kim, the executive director, and Alex. And at the time, I was like, man, I hope I didn't blow this, because I was just totally, in very typical evan fashion, sitting on my phone in a desk chair in the back room in the tech, one of their tech rooms, just, like, spinning around and kind of fidgeting with stuff. And because this is a tech storage room, and that's, you know, if you're me, that's kind of dangerous.
Too many toys to play with and mess around with, too much distraction.
You know, way too much, and, but I didn't. And they, they liked me. And so they, I worked as an intern for a little over very nearly a year. Not quite a year I actually had to do. When I first started, I was still going to the center, and they kind of sort of didn't. They had a hard time with me not doing their bloody regular classes and wanted me to do more. Well, yeah, they wanted me to do their stuff and didn't really want me to go to my internship. So that caused some pretty significant problems, which almost actually would have sabotaged the entire thing. But fortunately, you know, I, I got kind of, we kind of restarted it after I graduated. And then in October of 2021 is when I got hired on. And they actually made the whole audio production technician position for, for my role. Because at the time, Alex really did not only all the website stuff and, you know, technical things, but she also ran the broadcast and did, like, psas and short form stuff that I'm doing now. And so it took a huge load off of her and that, you know, I eventually, I started producing our first what is now the Blind Chick podcast. And, you know, I didn't.
So let's take a step back for 1 second. We should kind of explain to everyone what aftersight is and what they do.
Oh, yeah, for sure. So aftersight originally started as the radio rating service of the Rockies back in 1991. And basically, we're a part of what internationally is known as an audio information service. And so what we do is, like, our core mission is to provide news and, you know, other content in audio format for those who are blind or low vision or, you know, that just can't read print. Yeah. So that's really what we've always done, is, you know, like, partner with, like, the, you know, the New York Times and read, like, their travel section or, you know, local papers such as the Denver Post or even smaller papers such as, like, the Greeley Tribune, if you're living in, you know, Greeley, Colorado, or whatever it might be. And for the longest time, that audio content was distributed on broadcast. So little radios, basically. And, you know, they first started out actually looking like old, like tube radios, almost like from the forties and fifties wood cabinets and everything. Eventually moved on to now we have these cutesy little digital receivers that effectively they work like a tv without a screen, and it uses just a sub carrier on because we partnered with Rocky Mountain PBS, so anybody could get one.
Of those to hear the content if.
They wanted to, if they're a registered listener. They could, they could absolutely pick one up. We'll give it to them. We'll loan it to them for free.
Cool.
But on demand, you know, has really taken, really taken over. And, you know, there's still, I always say there's always going to be a place for radio and, you know, there's my, I feel like my generation is still listening to it, but, you know, people want to be able to listen to stuff kind of on their own time, so, yeah, instant gratification, you know.
You just want to go right to the thing and listen to what you want to now, you know?
Yeah, exactly. So eventually, yeah, that led to us putting, basically taking that volunteers read content and putting that out as podcasts and depending on the content, you know, that usually, typically we distribute pretty much everything on, of course, the broadcast still, we maintain that. But on our website, we've got a call in phone system, so you can literally, it's kind of like ACB radio's audio now system in a way, but, yeah, and you can, you could call in and either listen to the live broadcast or pick an on demand program. And then we also began putting all that, putting most of our shows out on, like, Spotify and Apple podcasts. And that's also, that's been huge for us. And I think it's, it's really, it is one of the things that really kept us, you know, still totally relevant and, you know, doing quite well.
And, and then from that point, at what point did you guys start with launching the podcasts that are on there and the ones that you do, the ones you produce and the ones that you're on? I mean, there's a bunch of others, too, that are on the network as well.
So maybe talk about that a little bit. Oh, yeah, for sure. So we've, we've kind of always had, like some, at least one or, or more kind of just original talk show kind of programs. So originally what we'd had was a program called Community Conversations. And, yeah, we basically just go take, you know, people from the general, from the community, and they get to tell their story about, you know, you know, if they, if they lost their vision later in life, they got to kind of just share their insights and their journey about that whole, that whole thing. And, you know, it was, it was a good show. And I, you know, eventually we, Alix actually was doing it, and then eventually, you know, we, I think just with everything being the way it was, we ended up just having to halt it, you know, put it on the back burner for a bit. And then I, when I came around, we, we started it up again, and eventually we realized the name community conversations just wasn't as fitting or SEO friendly for the show, like search engine optimization, you know, we wanted it to be easier to find. So eventually, the show became aftersight, and that name came from our grants manager. And I liked it. I felt like it was, you know, I felt like it was a fitting name for the show in a way, and it was a lot more concise than community conversations. So that was, that was pretty much our main original for a while. And then we wanted to do more. More with our podcasting. And so that's pretty much when we hired Jonathan, our podcast producer. And then eventually that led to the creation of. Well, we'd started, actually, we had formed, I think, back in 2022, we had formed the programming advisory committee, or PAc team, and they basically just kind of tell us what they want to listen to, and they'll give us feedback on our current programming and just suggestions for guests and things. And so the pack basically led us to creating several more original podcasts, including what was known as topic of the month, but eventually became navigating life with vision loss. Still a mouthful, but, you know, it defined that. It's a good name for the show. It defines it. And then, then we wanted a mental health one, which we called. We called it blind sight. And to be completely honest, I don't. It's not my favorite name only because it's one word and eloquence always pronounces it blind sight and just annoys me. Yeah.
Who's. Is that show still going, that podcast?
Oh, yeah, that one. Yep, that one is still going. And it's hosted by a, he's now retired, totally blind licensed psychotherapist named Bill Lundgren. Yeah, pretty cool. Pretty cool, dude.
They go deep, probably, on that show.
They try to. Yeah, they really do. I think, like, depending on the guest and depending on, like, if it's like a solo, you know, just like Bill Lundgren and Jonathan's kind of been co hosting it with, with him. They can. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, they can totally go deep. And I really think it's, you know, it's. It's a good. It's been, it's been helpful for me just because they've covered things like anxiety and depression and stuff like that. But blind level tech is kind of the one show I haven't mentioned. Yeah.
And blind level tech, that's your show.
So, yeah, that is my show now. And it kind of. It was kind of spontaneously created. Like we've wanted to have, you know, we wanted a tech related podcast. You know, we didn't know, you know, quite, you know, we wanted something where we could talk about devices or, you know, software or even interview people that do tech podcasts or from, or that work with a, you know, tech company. And basically, I. The way I remember, it was like we just had a hard time coming up with a name. And then Jonathan just kind of, like, popped out of his head. Blind level tech, you know, that's what we call it. And I thought about it. I'm like, blt, you know, I really like that. And that's. That's kind of. That's really how the show became, like, sandwich themed, too, because, you know, that's.
A great part of the show. It's so funny.
Thank you. Because, yeah, normally, typically, you know. Right. If you think sandwiches and tech, those two things are quite different from each other, you know?
Well, yes and no. I mean, a lot of people eat sandwiches while they work because they don't want to ever leave their check, you know? So you hold your sandwich in one hand and you're doing whatever in the other hand. You know what I mean? I actually.
I like that insight. I think that's a better. That's a good insight. A good point. I think when I had originally thought of it, I was. My geek brain was thinking more of the sandwich motherboard that is used in modern iPhones.
Yeah.
But, yeah, so I. So we started BLT, really just in January of last year, 2023, and Jonathan hosted it, and I. It was actually really to just another opportunity for me to get some more podcasting knowledge and, you know, because, like, what I do with the broadcast, you know, it's still relevant, but, you know, we're, the broadcast probably isn't going to be around forever, and, you know, eventually there's going to, you know, my role as well as a lot of roles, I'm sure, in the companies are going to form and be refined over time. So it was my way of getting some practice in the podcasting realm even more. So, I guess. And so I feel like the first few episodes, I had to get kind of out of my little formal box because I used to be like, okay, today we're going to be talking about Apple. And it was just. It just felt super, super formal and kind of. It wasn't boring by any means, but it just wasn't like, it wasn't the Evan that everybody knows and expects. And so it just took a lot of practice. And eventually that kind of led to me. This year, I took over hosting the show because Jonathan actually moved on to creating a blind sports podcast called Game Changers. But so now I. Oh, my gosh, I had to. I had to switch from being a co host to a host. That. That was a whole endeavor in and of itself because the mindset is so totally different and doing it for the first time. I'd never really hosted a podcast before. I. I was always talking about the hot headed thing. Basically just felt like my brain was on overload for the first, like, three episodes that I. That I did and just had to learn a lot about how to run a show and how to steer things and how not to, like, be super nervous, you know, with unfamiliar guests and the like, too. So.
Yeah, definitely. Cool. Well, a big surprise that we have is that unmute is actually going to become a part of. We're going to have all of our stuff on the aftersite platform. So we're super excited about that. That's going to be launching here really, really soon, and we'll let everybody know when that's going to be. So that's going to be super exciting. It'll be in all the places. So, you know, you can check that out. And, Evan, why don't you tell everyone how they can get ahold of you, follow you, where you at, all the things you know?
Oh, for sure. Yeah. So you can find me. I. I do. I will put my mastodon out there just because, like, it's my. My favorite social platform. So if you want to, like, follow me on Mastodon, I am at evdogevdog 1240 fiveragonscave space on Mastodon. Professionally, you can. You can hit me up on LinkedIn. If you ever want to get in contact with aftersight, you can actually. You can call us. We have. Our phone number is 3037-8677 a lot of sevens there. And if you want to. If you want to email. If you want to email me on my work email, you can email Evan at aftersite, all one word.org. and that's honestly kind of the best ways to really get in touch. But, you know, I'm always down to offer any insight or advice or talk about audio or whatever it might be.
Awesome. Well, Evan, thanks so much for being here. We really appreciate it. And to everyone else, we will see you next time.