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Hello, I'm John Waters, and I'm supposed to announce there is no smoking in this theater, which I think is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard of in my life. How can anyone sit through a length of a film, especially a European film, and not have a cigarette? But don't you wish you had one right now? Mmm, mm-mm-mm. And I'm telling you, smoke anyway. It gives ushers jobs, and if people didn't If we didn't smoke, there would be no employment for the youth of today. So once again, no smoking in this theater.

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Thank you very much for listening to Try Love. This is a literal roundtable podcast. We talk about movies we saw and/or people we met at or through the Trylon Cinema in Minneapolis, Minnesota. You can find us on Twitter, Instagram, and Bluesky @TryLovePodcast. You can find the Trylon at trylon.org and at Trylon Cinema on social media. My name is Jason Daphnis, the Pork Queen, and you can find me on Instagram, Letterboxd, Twitter, Bluesky, wherever. At Nintendoofus.

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I'm Cody Narvison. I'm the type of romantic partner that can play tennis with your parents, and you can find me on Bluesky at Cody Narvison.

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Did I get some in my mouth? I'm Harry Mackin, and you can find me on Bluesky at Punished Take.

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And I'm Aaron. I'm not Lamia, but I am the goat. You can find me on let's say Letterboxd at RB Please.

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He's back. He's back. He'll always be on Letterboxd at RB Please, but he will sometimes be behind the microphone here. How's it feel? How's it feel?

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It's great to be back. I thought he left again. It's just great to be back. I don't know. I was gone for like, what, like a week and a half? It's fine.

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Good to have you back. We are discussing a film today that played as part of the month-long— it's called Evil Incantations series. I forget what the subtitle is there. My little passport is downstairs or else I'd read everything about the title and every film that's going to play as part of it. But you should check it out. There's a couple of weeks left to this series. You should check it out at trylon.org for the full schedule. Yeah, I should just say really briefly that this movie played in 35mm at the Trylon. I'm not sure if that means that they played like the unrated cut or if this was the straight theatrical cut. As I understand, there are minor, minor differences between them. So we're not really going to spend too much time discussing them just as a level set for our audience before we get going.

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This was really like peak unrated version of movie era where it was just like maybe there was just— they just lingered on like bile or maggots or blood for like a couple more seconds or something.

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I think it's— I think it's literally like A shot of of the protagonist attacking an animal. No spoilers, but like like a shot of her and blood spattering onto her face. I think that's like the most substantial difference as I can tell. But before we actually get to discussing that movie, before we get to the patented Aaron Grossman summary, we ask a little quick question about what you watched this week. I will ask our friend Harry what he watched this week. Oh wait, wait! Did Aaron Aaron put up his hand for a bit that doesn't require hands?

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Hey, you think I'll go for it?

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I'm gonna offer to go first.

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Go for it. Eat.

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Are you okay with that, Harry?

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Absolutely. I'm delighted.

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Sure. I, I watched a film called Skate Town, USA, which is a 1979 film directed by William A. Levy. It is a film that is about— it's largely like capitalizing on the kind of roller skating, rollerblading trend that was going on in the late 1970s, kind of carried through to—

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The Xanadu of it all.

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Right. Carried through to like me growing up as a child. I remember growing up in where I did in Minnesota, there was a skating place that people would go to and rollerblade. And I think, you know, people still do that, but it's certainly not nearly as big as a trend.

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You showed me a picture. What was that place called again?

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It was called The Skatin' Place.

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The Skatin' Place?

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Was it Skatin' with an apostrophe? There was no G?

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I got to imagine. I got to imagine.

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Because the way you said it implied that to me, but I don't know.

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I sort of growing up assumed all towns had one of these and was shocked to learn that is not the case.

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I mean, the one I grew up in had a skate ranch. So, and I just assumed that was what you called places where you went to do skating until I heard that it was like a skating rink.

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I thought the same about the skating place. I was like, oh yeah,

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it's

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one of those. Exactly.

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It's a plain-spoken term that like, I think in terms of SEO now, forever. And that's a terrible SEO term. Isn't it? Like, people know what a skate rink is and they'll search skate rink.

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I just think it might be out of business now, so I don't know.

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I'm not surprised.

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Well, but doesn't a rink imply ice skating? A rink to me sounds like ice skating.

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We're getting into some real semiotics here.

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Roller rink.

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Yeah, I would call it a skate rink too. Anyway, we're off topic. How did you get there?

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So I was first told of this movie after talking with a friend about our mutual love of Well, a certain person who I'm going to reveal in a second here, or a certain actor who had their film debut in this film. But this was, you know, it's largely an attempt to capitalize on rollerblading and that whole sort of disco craze kind of phase there. And this movie is about maybe 15 minutes of plot. And then, I don't know, an hour and 30 minutes of basically just— Not just like rollerblading kind of exhibitions, sort of less than that. And you think it's sort of like very, very bad kind of like comedic gags and skits taking place in this.

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Sounds watchable.

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Overly exaggerated.

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Eminently watchable.

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It's sort of watchable. I will say the rollerblading is all very sick. Here's who is in this movie. I will not make this too long. Scott Baio is in this movie as one of the main characters. Flip Wilson, Ron Polillo, Polillo maybe, Ruth Buzzi, Dave Mason, Greg Bradford, Maureen McCormick, And then in the introduction, film introduction of actor Patrick Swayze. Yes, indeed, folks. Who apparently, you know, he was like a big dancer. I knew that growing up, but apparently was a big like rollerblader as well.

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I'll bet he looks pretty hot in this movie. If this is his first role. Yeah, I would imagine he looks quite good in that movie. That might be a reason to watch. In

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fact, he skates less than you'd want. He plays the bad guy. He plays like the— it's sort of like a Romeo and Juliet kind of West Side Story, you know, the young kind of, you know, kind of fresh-faced.

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He's a bank robber and he uses roller skating or bank robbing to fund his adventurous roller skating.

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No, although I would watch that movie. I would watch that. But, you know, there's a young hero. He steps to Patrick Swayze's turf. And then by the end of the film, they're kind of friends. It's, it's sort of okay. Big shout out to the soundtrack, which has like some incredible disco bangers on it. It's got some Earth, Wind& Fire. It's got, I mean, it's got everything. You know, if you, if you've ever like let like a, like kind of a club mix of like, at least for like a pool party playlist, sort of just play in the background, you've heard like most of these songs. It's nice.

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It sounds like better than Xanadu, to be honest. Maybe that's a little mean opinion.

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Probably better than Xanadu. We talked about it being like a great— if this was playing in the back, like silently playing in the back of like a dive bar, it would be like incredible. You know, it's one of those. So anyway, Sk8town USA, that is what I watched.

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That is, that is a whole week's worth of what you watched this week. So thank you. I'm glad that you were able to join to share what you watched this week. I'll toss down to our friend Harry for the runoff.

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All right. Yeah. Let's see. I haven't watched too many movies lately. I've been watching a lot of Americans with Charlie, playing a lot of Fire Emblem, obviously. That's going well. I know you all care very deeply about that. So I'm going

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to— Is that the one where you have guns?

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Yes. Yeah. Well, I kind of— I mean, you can have guns. There's a, there's a major character whose thing is that she has guns and you can't actually play as her yet. She's one of the DLC characters recently announced. So, but yeah, no, there are guns. Honestly, I can't even start the Fire Emblem plot synopsis right now. It's so insane. Honestly, I would recommend like look up a little bit about Fortune's Weave if you're interested, because it's the most batshit thing you can imagine, especially for a game that is just like, it's like tactics and you run around and it's like there's aliens. There's like alternate timelines. It's fucking wild. Anyway, um, so this week I watched, uh, Midnight Cowboy. I had never seen it before. Um, quite a great movie. Not exactly breaking any ground there. Um, will say that, uh, I have never been a huge Jon Voight guy. Um, but I think his performance in that is, is on par with, um, with the other performance, the Dustin Hoffman that everybody cites as like one of the best ever. I think he's unbelievable in that movie. Um, it's also really funny to like go back and read the, uh, reviews at the time and like All of the reviews are like, the realism and the grit is really good in this movie. But like, it— like, any sort of dissenting opinion was always that it was like, ah, it's a little too dreamlike. It's a little too abstract. It's a little too shaggy. Like, that being like absolutely the best part of the movie for me. Like, in hindsight, it's just like all of the ways in which it is like pre-New Hollywood and like really, really shaggy and like underexplained is like actually the best part of that movie to me. Really good movie. Recommend it again. Everybody knows that. It's, uh, pretty well known. Um, rewatched Bram Stoker's Dracula, um, or should I say Francis Ford Coppola's Bram Stoker's Dracula. Um, that's a, a perennial favorite of mine. Probably gonna watch it every Halloween. Showed it to Charlie. Charlie loved it. Um, that was really exciting that she was into it because, um, I figured she would like it, but you never really know, right? So that was exciting. Um, and then I, I went to The Devils, uh, last night. Shoutouts to friend of the pod Blake Hester and AJ. Friend of the pod hasn't been on the pod yet, but perhaps someday.

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Suspicious.

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Weirdly, I was not as into The Devils as pretty much everybody else seems to be. I think maybe, maybe it's a me thing. It's just like, it's really, really loud and really like in your face and full of spectacle, kind of at the expense of a lot of other stuff to me. And maybe it's just me, but also like the story of like religious oppression and like sexuality that is repressed is like, I'm sure it was incredibly groundbreaking in 1971, but like everybody talks about it like it's genuinely subversive to this day. And it's sort of like, guys, like, did you know that like repressed sexuality makes people act out? And it's a little bit feels like that to me. Anyway, I'm being a hater. I think the movie is really interesting, but go ahead.

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2 things. School of the Holy Beast. It's a movie that I referenced before on this podcast. It's a Japanese movie from the '70s, I think, late '70s. Please do check that out. It's very much of the same ilk, but not— I've never seen The Devils yet, but I think you would enjoy it in a way that you probably didn't enjoy The Devils. Okay, save it for the pod, man. We're gonna be covering that movie in like 2 and a half weeks.

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I forgot all about that, to be honest with you. I'll rewatch it then. I mean, I wanted to rewatch it.

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I was about to comment under your Letterboxd review, like, better get ready to watch it again.

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But that's fine. I'm happy to watch it again. I think I said in my Letterboxd review I was looking forward to watching it Yeah. So maybe I'll like it a lot more when we actually have to talk about it, but I will save the rest for the pod and move on to Cody. What did you watch this week?

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Thank you. Oh, God, too much. Let's see, how do I want to do this? I'll start with I finished my venture into the Nightmare on Elm Street franchise since our last recording that we did this segment for. I went ahead and cleaned that up, watched Nightmares 5, 6, and 7. obligatory hand gesture, The Dream Child.

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There were only 7 of those?

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And then Freddy pops up in Freddy vs. Jason. I think there are a few others that are outside the scope of the original 7. Whatever, I'm not a purist. I just did some Googling and it seems to be generally accepted that these 7 are the core entries here. But right, less plentiful compared to— I think there's like 23 Friday the 13ths, that sort of thing. There are more Saws than Nightmare on Elm Street. But Dream Child and Final Nightmare 5 and 6 were sort of duds. I didn't dislike any of these movies. I would recommend, like, anybody who's interested in watching these, just watch all of them. There aren't any that you, like, need to skip. I think there's at least something cooking in all of them. But I will say—

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To be honest, it's kind of a huge coup for a horror franchise, right? Yeah. Like,

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oh

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yeah, I unfortunately, like, I am kind of of the opinion that there are almost no good Friday the 13th movies. Right. I haven't seen all of them, but I've seen quite a few of them at this point. And like, I don't even like the first one. And so for Nightmare on Elm Street to be mostly entirely worth watching is kind of amazing.

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Yeah. And that's also, I guess, like grain of salt. That is also me talking. And I'm like, I feel like I generally try to search for the shit. It's like, what is the reason to get into this? You know, Saw was the first horror franchise that I walked through, and I'm sort of like unapologetic about that. So, you know, do with that information what you will. I will say number 7, Wes Craven's New Nightmare is Wes Craven back in the director's chair. It's number 2 or 3 for me in the Nightmare on Elm Street movies behind the first and maybe Dream Warriors, depending on where I place them. But it is him very much so interested in the same sorts of things that would come 2 years later in Scream, or when he releases Scream. Wes Craven's new nightmare is instead of Freddy going into this fictional world and terrorizing characters in a movie, He is terrorizing actors from the first and some of the sequels movies. Heather Langenkamp plays a version of herself. Robert Englund plays a version of himself. Wes Craven, even also John Saxon, are all playing versions of themselves.

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John Saxon.

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And Freddy is terrorizing them. So soft recommendation for that. Hard recommendation for that. What am I talking about? That movie rips. New Nightmare specifically. But did those. Jesus, how do I want to do this? I watched a couple documentaries over the last week plus that will be contenders for my film of the year. Y'all should check them out if you haven't already. Naza and You Can See Everything. I will sidestep discourse for those just because I don't know if I'll be able to contribute anything new, and also because I've got a lot of movies here. But I think a lot of the talking has been done for those already, and the discourse will assuredly continue in the ways that those movies tackle their subject matter. But both Double thumbs up from me. I watched a— oh, actually, I can group these two together. A couple viewings at this year's Twin Cities Film Festival taking place primarily at the Marcus Theaters in St. Louis Park, but also the Mann Theater in Edina and maybe some other places. Maybe I'm getting that wrong, but a lot of the titles that I really wanted to see are going to coincide with some travel that I will be doing upcoming here. So I only saw a couple things in theaters. I saw a movie called Josephine, which is Gemma Chan and Channing Tatum are parents who have a second-grade-aged child who witnesses, rather, a brutal crime, act of violence committed in a park. And the movie is reckoning with that fallout. If it sounds like really heavy subject matter, that's because it is. This is like a really— I think the way Joséphine, the movie, handles all of that, it's very engrossing. I didn't take notes for the first 20 minutes or so as sort of things were getting going. Yeah. Could— like, I just— I'm riveted by, by all of this. Um, I don't know what sort of—

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You can't get through like the opening credits without taking notes.

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True. Yeah. And yeah, and I'll also do bullshit like, you know, write down just like what trailers showed before each movie, even, and especially at the Trilon. Nice thing about the film festival is that they don't really have, uh, those trailers. So, um, yeah, my— I was in a fortuitous position to just sit and watch a movie like a normal person for a moment.

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The shackles cracking meme.

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Exactly. Finally, someone let me out of my cage. And then the other movie that I watched, maybe I'll get to some of the other ones that are streaming online, but one that I did watch earlier today is a movie called Captive, which is— it's a horror movie. I won't say much about it, in part because I've already held on to the mic for a long time, but it is hyper-local and hyper-independent cinema. I think it was made in Crystal or by a team up there, maybe just the director, writer, producers from there. Um, definitely, uh, an experience like watching it, you can definitely understand the, the limitations and frustrations of, um, you know, being sort of like shoestring and, uh, you know, sort of, you know, like not guerrilla filmmaking, but, you know, just, you know, as sort of like an early project for presumably a lot of these people. I will say it is very beholden to things like, um, Alien and also Lazarus Effect, 2 movies. Uh, I like one of those more than the other assuredly, but they're both— those are both, um, like very specific genre swings that I enjoy, and Captive includes a lot of that stuff. So shouting those out. And then a whole bunch of fucking miscellaneous. Idiots, a movie from this past year. Dave Franco is doing some weird chaotic shit. O'Shea Jackson Jr.'s kind of the straight man. They are bringing a person of interest across state lines, sort of like a cross-country road trip type movie. I liked it. There's sort of an edge serving as an undercurrent to all that that I think really benefits that movie. And I want to watch Idiots. So

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I heard that movie was originally gonna be called Shitheads.

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Yes.

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Yes. Does it— would that have been a better name?

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Not— I, I understand why they did. I think Idiots is probably a bit like— neither— nobody is really calling these— maybe somebody calls them idiots. Nobody really calls them shitheads. I feel like the Shitheads title was sort of like a shock factor type name that they put in, just like, hey, watch this movie, it has, you know, it has a cuss in it, is my guess. I think Idiots is a more fitting title if even if it's not a more interesting one, if that makes sense. Okay. Yeah, um, but I dug Idiots. Uh, I really, really dug, uh, Yokohama, uh, Kaidashi Kiku, uh, or I want to make sure I get this right, and Jason will probably almost certainly have things to say about this as well, um, Yokohama Shopping Log, um, uh, Quiet Country Cafe. I'm just looking at other alternative titles. Uh, one of the best things that I've seen recently, it's an hour-long, uh, anime, not OVA, Because there's more to this world than Jason and friend of the pod Seth and I have watched, but it is 2 30-minute sort of chapters in this world and it's some of the most beautiful shit that you can imagine. So there's that. Less beautiful, but something that I still enjoyed yesterday, Sacrifice. It's a movie on Netflix. Chris Evans in sort of like a metatextually interesting role for him. He plays sort of like a jaded actor going through an existential crisis. And he—

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Because he just made so many bad movies after his Marvel tenure. He's just somebody who just made like 20 shitty movies, and he's like, God, am I actually a good actor? I just— am I doomed to make shitty movies forever? That's probably what that is about. Yeah,

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it's something, something to that effect without pointing to that specifically, in broad enough strokes to where it's not like a one-to-one satire. But there's, there's some fun stuff going on here. Vincent Cassel is deliciously slimy, as he can often be. Salma Hayek Pinault is her, so she's knocking them dead anytime she shows up, as well as my favorite alien, Anya Taylor-Joy, who is sort of the leader of this resistance group who is tasked with finding people for this ritual sacrifice that Chris Evans' character finds himself swept up in. Fuck, what else is there? I'm sorry. Oh, and then I think the last sort of category here, seeking out comfort food in recent 50/50, a dramedy that I unapologetically love and find myself wanting to revisit every so often. Revisited 2021's The Suicide Squad because I figured I would like it a little bit more upon rewatch, and I certainly did. The edible I took beforehand definitely helped, and it also helped finally—

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That's the James Gunn one, right? Not the other one?

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Yep, exactly. Not the David Ayer one. And then before watching Suicide Squad, as my edible was kicking in, I revisited it, it stopped making sense because why wouldn't I? Uh, some of the best shit. Uh, and that is everything that I watched in the last whatever that was, like 10 days or, or something. Uh, Jason, what did you get up to watching this last week or so?

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A lot less than that, thankfully. Uh, but I'm glad that you had such a rich, uh, well today or this week. Um, since the last time we recorded, I've watched some things, but since the last time we discussed this segment, I've watched more things. So Since the last time we did this segment, I did. I watched Trick or Treat, the 2007 like anthology light vignette movie. Really quite quite pleased with that. That was a lot of fun. Brian Cox in it, like from the get, just sort of made. I don't know. There's something about the way that they've done him up and the way that he's playing that character that he plays is that's going to stick with me for a while. That sort of like sad sack but also mean guy who of course you know they got to tie it into the main. Story there with the children and the school bus and stuff. If you haven't seen it, go check it out. It's not that big a time investment, and it's on streaming services. Good Halloween fun. Also, I found a lot of people similarly like the pumpkin kid did nothing wrong. Like that that kid is just a child. He's he's just a he's a baby. Why do we not respect him like we respect Baby Yoda? Why do we not think of this? I forget what the child's name is. Sam or something like that. They never actually say it in the movie. Anyway, that's enough about Trick or Treat. I watched Popstar Never Stop Never Stopping because we just. released a bonus episode about that. Go check it out. I watched Buddy, the 2026 horror movie. I guess I was down on that movie by comparison. Cody prepped me for good times and fun. It sort of came into—

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Listen, let me be clear. I said I liked it. And Jason, I like lots of things.

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I know.

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I think this is appropriate though, because I think I liked it more than folks and you were just providing the equilibrium. That's all.

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Probably. I guess there's—

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This movie, what you'd expect, because this movie wasn't like out of seen like the single screenshot of this. Is it that?

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Okay. Yes. I was hoping that maybe it would be something a little different or like, but it is, you remember Too Many Cooks? Same guy, 15 years later, kind of doing an updated version of that, but with narrative. Do you need to talk more about

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this

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movie? Well, I will wait to— Only one way to find out. Yeah. Wait for you to see it. There's a specific place I've referenced before that you can now see it. It's on VOD as well if you prefer more legitimate means. Anyway, I wasn't as happy about that. I watched today's film and then I watched, of course, With, with, uh, Cody, and we finished the second half without Seth, but he'll catch up. Yokohama Kaidai Shikiku. Um, it is insane how much anime fucking wastes time doing shit it doesn't need to do. It made me angry about so much else, this, this like just hour. And I would call it OVA because it's a separate piece from like the main manga series. It is, uh, like 1 hour self-contained. It is, you know, anthological in nature, but still tied into this world. Absolutely, like, fantastic. Blew my socks off. I was really, really glad. I should have known because our friend of the podcast, uh, Natalie Marlin, gave it a really glowing review on Letterboxd. Should have known that it was going to be something that would really, really dazzle me, and it fucking did. It's incredible. It's for free on YouTube. Somebody uploaded a version with subtitles. Uh, I don't know if it ever got dubbed, but don't bother. It is absolutely beautiful, um, and a must-see in my opinion, and a new gem of Anime Saturdays, I think. You Can See Everything, I then saw the next day. I liked it, period. And then I watched another movie that we're going to be discussing on the podcast later this week, so I will refrain from discussing that. But I guess that's more than my usual. That's maybe one per day on average, maybe a little bit more. And I'm really glad to have gotten to see that much movies this week. We've spent a little bit too much time already on that segment, so I will move us into the main conversation with the patented Aaron Grossman summary. You're going to introduce it, pal. with this phrase that you always kick it off with.

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Yes, indeed, folks. Thank you, Jason. We are talking about Drag Me to Hell, 2009 film directed by Sam Raimi. The film stars Alison Lohman as Christine Brown, a loan officer looking for a big promotion, supported by her loving and successful boyfriend Clayton, played by Justin Long. She becomes, becomes, I don't know, slightly more cutthroat and hardworking in an attempt to secure the promotion and in doing so offends a poor elderly Romani woman, Sylvia Ganush, played by Laura Raver. Sylvia puts a curse on Christine, and she learns that a demonic being known as the Lamia, a black goat, will torment her for 3 days before dragging her to hell. The film was Sam Raimi's first horror film in 17 years since 1992's Army of Darkness, although he had some, like, thrillers in there. I don't know if they don't count. Initially written a decade prior, the film followed Raimi's work Uh, on the 2000s, uh, Spider-Man trilogy, of course, and was, um, according to Raimi, primarily made because Raimi wanted to work on kind of a lower budget.

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Yeah, he probably made Spider-Man 3 and was like, I want to kill myself, and, uh, instead I'm gonna go back to doing things I actually like to do.

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Oof, wish I hadn't done that one. Um, the film was a hit critically and commercially. That's what I got, uh, dragging this summary over to Jason. Oh wow.

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Pretty good. The casting in this movie feels like a practical joke on me. There is so much left and right, like between Alison Lohmann as the main character, who I do not think— I know that like it works with her character and she's somewhat naive and she's trying to reinvent herself and all of these other things that are her mortal sin, I guess. So maybe it works for her to be a little bit out of step, a little bit out of the loop, a little bit naive seeming. I just don't think she's a very good actress, to be frank. I never saw her in anything else. Maybe there's something to that. But then when Dilly Brow— is it Dilly Brow? the fortune-telling fella, the mind reader, the psychic. When he comes into the story and I just have no idea who he's supposed to be, what he's supposed to be doing, takes me off guard that he's so young, that he looks so— I mean, he's still got an air of wisdom about him, but he has no like—

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He's a very hot modern dude for what you would think of when you're thinking of like a stock sort of psychic mystic. Yeah.

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And there's no way—

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Especially considering there is, excuse me, a gypsy hag in this film. You said Romani woman, which I think is a beautifully sensitive way to put it, Aaron. Like, just maybe the most offensive stereotype just played about as straight as humanly possible.

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This was one of the last years that you could get away with having a character like Sylvia Ganush.

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Kind of unbelievable in a way.

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2009, the minute 2010 hit, it was like, all right, we're being respective of of, uh, you know, Romani people. We're not doing these stereotypes anymore. 2009 was right on the fucking edge, you know. You had— after this, you couldn't do it. But the same way you like got in, like Indiana Jones pulling his hat through the door.

27:10.210 --> 27:51.357
Yeah, it never felt like— not that I have much personal experience with, uh, you know, racial and ethnic, um, uh, sort of prejudice against the Romani people, but it never felt like a thing that got pop culture pull, like in the way that, you know, being a shit-headed middle schooler about every race and ability level and ethnicity that you possibly could be really did. But yes, it is even by today, like even just almost 20 years later, astonishing how offensive it is because they take their time to like revisit it and prove again and again and again that this is a horror, like a really wretched, like scary person from a really wretched, scary place in the world. Like really do wretched things to you.

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It's really startling, but also like almost kind of hilarious. And again, I don't condone any of this, but that truly the entire explanation is for like why she knows how to do the curse that drags you to hell is like, well, she's a Romani woman. So like, obviously she has the ability to summon evil goats from hell that drag you to hell when she's pissed off at you.

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It's like somebody asked, well, how does she know that? And Sam Raimi just like, just like emphasized, you see her, right? You see that she's not like me. Anyway, Aaron.

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I don't, I don't, do you want, I'm trying to decide, like, tell, tell my own, uh, uh, exaggerated story of, of racism towards the Romani people from my own past. Do that. Not me doing it, or try and somehow intellectualize, well, like, what this film is doing with that character. I'm standing in the middle of a wood and the woods is diverging.

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Take both paths, dude.

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I now—

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Split yourself in half like the Wisdom of Solomon and just walk right down both paths. of those paths.

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Sam Raimi chose the silly path. I, I suggest you take the silly path.

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The silly is the silly path. Which one of those is the silly path? I don't know.

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God, it's the one where you recount your past.

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I, well, I, so I, uh, when I studied abroad, I studied abroad, a lot of people that I was with were, uh, uh, European, uh, because they, they kind of put everybody who wasn't Turkish like—

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Oh, and they actually did have like incredible racism towards Romani people, right?

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I think I, I maybe told this story in person to some of you, but it was like, coming from America, we're like, we, we, we've got a crazy history of racism. Uh, not that, like, I think a lot of people tell stories like these to go like, oh, like, America's actually better. Like, no, we're not. We're— Of course not.

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We don't have very specific ethnic breakdowns the way that some Europeans do, right? It's like, with us, it's pretty much racial, unfortunately, uh, in a lot of ways. But which is not better.

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There is a sort of, like, bluntness to the, the, and, like, sort like almost unassuming nature of the racism towards the Romani people that like almost everyone I encountered in Europe had that was like shocking. And like, you know, I think like a lot of the people that you encounter in the United States maybe aren't as like upfront about their racism, but like, I think, you know, if maybe you got a few beers in them or if they just are kind of, you know, not hiding it, they'll just admit like, yeah, I'm racist. I don't like this group of people, whatever. The people that I found in Europe who were like super racist against the Romani people that we'd encountered often just straight up did not view it as racism, thought racism was like horrible and vile, but just like, oh yeah, this isn't like racism, man. I'm just telling some facts here. These are just facts about the Romani people that I've come across from my time living in fucking Spain or whatever. Really, really alarming stuff in a way that was like kind of knocked me, knocked me on my feet.

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And sucks. Romani people have— We should all be clear about that. That fucking sucks. Yeah.

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Romani people have, you know, the thing that this, this film is sort of like, you know, touching upon, right, is like the kind of the stereotype is the Romani people of, you know, kind of acting as these often like Orientalized, you know, group of people who due to kind of their cultural, let's say, like dissimilarity with, you know, a lot of the cultures that they're in, the stories that they're present in, like stand out and represent something like kind of older, more maybe in tune with like a tradition that is kind of shocking to like the main characters.

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Yeah, like all European folklore is about how there was like a race that was transgressed upon when the Brits took over or whatever, and they're going to get their revenge using like ancient magic, right?

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Absolutely. I think there's a thing about Romani people like, you know, kind of not having like a specific like homeland. This— a lot of this is also like tied in the stereotype of like Jewish people, for example, you know. But the thing I think this film is like, if I can like, I don't know, maybe do something to portray like maybe a slightly positive aspect of what this film is doing with that, that that doesn't have any tie to the racism is that I think this film is like very interested, interested in being this sort of almost like, you know, kind of this parable, this maybe even like fairy tale-esque horror story that's like essentially like a very, very obvious like sort of story about morality.

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It's a morality play. Yeah.

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A decision that a character makes specifically to someone who is quite a bit different than them and has nothing—

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And powers in an important way. Right.

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Right.

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And there was this moment when, yeah.

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Yeah. And a person whose, like, existence and, like, way of life, like, stands in direct opposition to, like, what this person is doing and, like, the life that she's, like, trying to lead and the path that she's trying to go down. Right. I, you know, I'm— there's not a single aspect of, like, that character that is, like, aged well. I don't know. But there's, there's so many stereotypes like this that are, like, kind of wrapped up in a lot of great horror films, including other ones that Sam Raimi has worked on. Yeah. I don't think that aspect works well, but like, I don't know, I like the film, so I'll be defending the rest of it throughout this episode. Cody, anything there you want to touch upon? Do you have any racist views you'd like to let everybody know about while we're talking about it?

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Cody suddenly evinces a seething racism for blank.

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I did. I will— I did. Fuck, where is my manifest? I left my manifest in the other room. Our recording schedule, such as it is, maybe will look out and I'll have it on my purse. But for now, no views that I would like to share in that capacity. But I think transitioning this as best I can, a banger start to this episode, not where I thought this would go, but I think the portrayal insofar as the movie is kind of putting forth, if we— and because Alison Lohmann kind of got called out here, I do think there is something interesting if I wanted to give her performance a little bit of credit, which I do. I think it's, you know, it's also like stunt casting is also maybe a little bit strong, but she is very like angelic look, like just like the way her like hair and just she is, she's young Sandra Blum in Big Fish is like the other big role that I—

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she is perfect in this. Yes.

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And

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I don't agree with that, but I do agree with what

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I, I, I think— I do think it really is matching, like, wheelhouse to, uh, to perform. She's very, like, soft-spoken. You can see she, uh, if not verbalizes, like, visually shows the inner machinations of her, like, trying to figure— like, she wears all of that really well when the, you know, the, uh, inner office, uh, like, politics are preventing her from, like, doing the things that she wants to do, when When Justin Long's parents are being assholes on speakerphone, which, come on, boyf Justin Long, pick up the handset and make that call one-to-one the moment you fear that your girlfriend might hear your mom taking a big old shit on her. But I think she does a lot of that expressiveness really well. I think there is maybe an argument, which I I guess I'm saying I'm sort of on the side. There is a line that this movie that Raimi and friends are toeing where is Alison Lohmann's character, who is of course Christine Brown, as much as she is reacting to the movie, it's not going full like, oh, she's reacting to the fact that she's in a horror movie in a way she's almost watching this woman Like, like, I don't know, like pick her nose and like take out her dentures and like be really gross at her desk. Like, her reaction isn't so much as like, oh, I'm grossed out by this happening, but I am almost like intrigued at the way that this like woman is being portrayed in this, the situation I am, which happens to be in a movie. Maybe that's too sweaty, maybe that's too much of a stretch, um, but, uh, an unlikely sort of— performance to be at the, at the, like, at the dead center of a Sam Raimi picture. In retrospect, it is a performance and a film that you think about the spectrum of, you know, dumb, you know, horny teens getting killed off in Evil Dead movies, and then thinking about like the types of things that Send Help ends up doing, or ended up doing this past year, which, not to get like too specific about—

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Really hard not to think of Send Help watching this movie.

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Yeah, especially in that scene. Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, just the whole first act is just exactly send help again.

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Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Do you want— Harry, do you want to pick it up from there? Oh yeah, any of that or anything else hit you?

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Yeah, I, I'm of two minds about Alison Lohmann's performance and I guess Christine Brown in general. I think that there's more depth to this character than there would be in some movies. We talked a little bit beforehand, right, about the like the eating disorder idea. That's an annoying fan theory that we don't really have to get into, but like I think that the reason why the, the idea of the eating disorder is like as resonant in this movie as it is, is because like the Christine Brown's character is a character who is struggling with self-doubt, right? And, and maybe fear that she is not a good person, right? Like, like that is what's defining her and fear maybe that, that the fact that she's not a good person is tied up in her upbringing or her commonness, right? When she's introduced, she's literally listening to like pronunciation guides on tape. tape to learn how to like get rid of a country accent, right? We learned that she grew up on a farm, and that is a point of contention between her and her boyfriend's family, who are much more upper class. She used to be an overweight person, right? She was the quote-unquote pork queen that Jason referred to. And like all of that is also wrapped up in this decision she makes, right? She is— she's haunted by this idea that like maybe she's actually, um, uh, like a, uh, a bad person or a person who is not actually like who she says she is, right? And like this decision to not extend the mortgage that Sylvia Ganush requests of her is actually like secretly who she really is inside, right? And I think like that leads to her character arc throughout this movie. And like that's what makes this a classic Raimi movie to me. And like I thought a lot about A Simple Plan too. watching this, another like classic morality Raimi thing, which is, which is, was the original inception for this movie as well, as Raimi wanted to say, like, I wanted to do a character who's sort of like, like makes one relatively small mistake and is just hunted by it, haunted by it in a way that is kind of unfair. I really love that this is a movie that's deeply like, I'm really into horror movies that are all about how unfair the world is. Right. And how like, I think it, I think it's like really cool actually. And like, this is a take I've been been fomenting for a while, but like, I, I used to be of the opinion that I didn't really like it when like bad things happen to good people in horror movies. Now I kind of think that that's really necessary because like the point is that this is supposed to be the POV character and like you're supposed to be scared that this will also happen to you, right? That like, like through something that's not really any fault of your own. Well, metaphorically speaking.

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Well, yeah, I was gonna say maybe, maybe not this exactly, but just

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sort of like you know, it— like, like, you're gonna end up having to do this one compromise at your job to, like, remain where you are, remain what you do, and then that's just gonna be your whole life, right? And it— she's— this whole time she's sort of— you can almost hear her being like, I'm, like, not a bad person. I just, like, did this one bad thing, and it was, like, the most obvious, like, thing I had to do to remain at this shitty capitalist job. And, like, why is now, like, I am responsible for, like, like, the entire history of subjugation of people being like, like hoisted on me in, in curse form. There's something really like— the frustration of this movie is something that I feel like I really relate to, and I feel like is really key to understanding where this movie is coming from, especially for like a movie targeting like teens and young adults of just sort of like, why do I have to be responsible? Like what? Like I just did one bad thing. Like I have to be literally dragged to hell for it? Like, that's what's gonna happen to me forever now is because of this one thing that I did? And it's like, I love that the movie is playing with that, right? And being like, well, yes, but also like, that does suck. And I'm gonna make a movie about how funny and stupid it is that that happens. So, you know, I think that like Lohman is not an amazing actress in my opinion, but I think that like she does do a good job of like portraying the way in which this character is like almost like exasperated by her circumstances, the, the way that Cody's talking about, where it's sort of like, this can't really be what life is, what's happening to me. Like, it can't just be like a Dr. Seuss, like, like morality fable. And it's like, well, sometimes it is, you know. And like, that, that really appealed to me about this character and about that performance, I guess. Um, Jason, what do you make of it? You haven't talked about Alison Lohmann. I think you're a little lower on on her performance than we are, right?

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A touch. And I think it is largely due to the core thing that I hear. I've listened to a couple episodes of different podcasts about this. I've read a little bit of the critical appraisal. Um, and I think the core question of this is like, is it a small mistake or is she somebody who deserves this fate? Like, is, is the movie trying to tell us that people who do this thing, especially in— and I, I sort of feel like I'm— I feel silly for not recognizing this in the moment, but it's 2009, right after the housing crisis, and she is a loan officer denying an old woman who's just trying to hold on to her house for the last 30 years a loan to maintain that lifestyle. So there is a certain timeliness to it maybe that I cannot put myself into, but by and large, I think the movie is trying to get you to believe like, yes, this person does on some level deserve it. And with each vignette, each scene of her doing the wrong thing or her rejecting her fate or trying to fight against it rather than accept it, as Dilip Rao in the first place tells her, you're kind of fucked, sort of. He doesn't tell her that, but he softly tells her, I can't help you. And she says, no, no, no, please. And he provides various options of increasing gambit, I suppose. And the way in which I think the movie, it's building this question of, does she, despite what we know about her, and maybe as we learn more about her, maybe she starts to deserve it in the eyes of the audience. Maybe the This small, relatively small mistake, as you put it, Harry, was actually not that relatively small because it was a decision that she made for personal benefit, and that inherently is something that deserves such a horrendous and comedic, comically evil fate, right? I think that— I think she, her character sort of gets stuck in the middle of that, where I'm supposed to believe increasingly that she sort of maybe deserves it, or that she is under the right circumstances can be made to admit that she deserves it, like the scene with her parents, with her boyfriend's parents, where she really blows up and has this moment and starts to maybe succumb to her worst urges sort of thing. And that maybe by then I'm supposed to feel that she ends up deserving this fate, this curse that she has. And I don't think that she is very good at that, to be frank. I don't think she's very good at appearing She does seem like scream queenie, like that she knows how to react to spooky things happening. The scene where she is smashing the— we'll find out it's not the button, but she thinks she's smashing the button back into Sylvia Ganush's mouth in the grave. That is a very, very classically Sam Raimi scream queen scene with the mud and the blood and the rain and everything. And I think she does well in that scene. I think she's really showing it off. But I don't think that everything leading up to that, this sort of emotional journey from Small-town girl making it in a big city, trying to put aside this person she was and these things that she was defined by. I just don't think that that sort of nuance is— I don't see it in her. And I think that sort of spirals out to my bigger question about the movie, which is it leaves me in an uncomfortable, uncertain space of, is this a movie that I'm supposed to be sort of cringing at her misfortune or also feeling like, oh, I make these kinds of mistakes. I've made these compromises. in my daily life and I've never suffered consequences like this, but I might deserve something like this too. Is it a morality play? Is it just like a little bit of torture porn? Is it both? Can it be both? I might still be stuck in the middle generally of a critical appraisal of the movie because of those questions that I have yet to answer. Aaron, is there anything that you can do to assuage some of that friction I feel?

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Maybe. I mean, I absolutely do not view the film as saying that she she deserved. I think that—

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I don't either, to be clear. I find her very sympathetic in this movie.

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An absurd, like, overcorrection sort of punishment. And not only that—

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To the point that it's kind of a joke, right? Like, the joke is that something like this would happen to you for— it's like, it's a parody of a morality play almost, right? Where it's sort of like, oh, you like turned down the old woman's like mortgage, you're going to get dragged to hell. Sorry, dragged to hell.

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I don't know if it's like a— I don't know if I call it a parody. I mean, I think there's a lot of sort of kind of old, you know, bits of folklore and whatnot in which people are like punished almost, you know, absurdly harshly. Right, right. And we just sort of went through this discourse with, you know, a detail that was sort of left out of the Odyssey film, which is like the stuff with the suitors at the end, right? Where like clearly they're viewed as like, at least, you know, with the original Homer, as like being in the wrong. But like, you know, Odysseus is actions, like being like so absurdly not only over the top, but like sort of not connected at all to how we would understand morality today.

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Right?

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Right. I don't think we're supposed to view this as like, you know, her deserving it in any manner. And in fact, I think that like the— maybe one of the reasons that the kind of the framing of this is, you know, with the intro with like the little child who like, you know, stole a necklace, clearly, you know, he's either like a bit of a, you know, a bit of a prankster and he's acting out, or he's, you know, from a poor family, in which case he's just looking to, you know, maybe do that for some practical reasons. And then like they try and give the necklace back and it's like, nope, sorry, buddy, you've been cursed. This child is being dragged to hell. You know, that is clearly— I think we're not supposed to view like Thalamiya as any sort of—

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It's like at a certain point you wanted that necklace to be taken. taken so that this could happen. That would be the only reason why you would have such a project, right? You're a sick dragon developer, right? Yeah, I know what you're up to.

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Yeah, I'm sick to my stomach now. And I think that the film also, you know, it does enough to sort of help us, you know, get put into Christine's shoes, right? We're like, she works in this like awful, awful office, which I think is like just the aesthetics of that are like really brilliantly done for 2009 and portraying this sort of just just sterile, you know, kind of unemotional.

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Dude, the, the like mission words that they have on the wall behind them where they have like integrity and like, you know, like compassion written out in the background is so 2009. It was like truly like getting smacked in the face. It was—

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Could be like a bank loan office, could be like the front office of like a dentist. You know what I mean? Like it's just, I think really wonderfully like just disgusting, right? And I think that, like, you know, the fact that, like, you know, there's the stuff about her, you know, having, you know, used to be— her used to being kind of overweight, right? And clearly that, like, being thematically, I think, connected to some of the stuff that happens to her. But I think also the fact that, like, you know, she is seen as not successful by Justin Long's— I guess Clayton's family, right? Yeah. Um, and she comes from a farm. She mentions that her, uh, her mother no longer leaves the house and her dad's not with them anymore. Um, and I, you know, we're supposed to view that like she is to Clayton's family what this Romani woman is to the bank, right? Or—

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Which is an absurd thing to imagine, but that is exactly the parallel, right?

48:02.960 --> 48:51.796
Yeah, yeah. And then, um, you know, I think that we're also supposed to think that like she is, uh, you know, just connecting it 2009, connecting it to what was going on globally, but also specifically in America at that time. And, you know, her working in a bank and like, you know, dating a professor who is like from kind of, if not like old money, then, you know, this family that's wealthy and kind of, you know, well-to-do. She is like kind of the ideal of like the American dream, right? She is like working up from nothing and like doing what she needs to in order to make it right. And I think that this film is sort of about like like kind of how, how you will be forced to make, uh, evil decisions, uh, on your way to the top, even if you don't want to, right? Um, and sort of like how unfair that is that that's asked of you, but like how you will regardless. Um,

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oh, I, I would 100% think that this is like a fear of millennials entering the workplace. Yeah, like drama, like comedy. And it's like, it's truly just like, this is, this is a girl who like like, is secretly worried that, like, because she gave up her life on the farm and because she has a boyfriend who's kind of wealthy and because she took what could be considered a sort of corporate sellout job, is she going to be dragged to hell? Like, truly, I think the metaphor that's happening here is like, like, hey, like, when I, like, sign up for my shitty corporate job where I make $45,000 a year, like, am I actually contributing to ancient evils that are going to get me killed because capitalism? And like, am I, am I dooming my eternal soul because I have to make little compromises like this to live any sort of life? And like, I think that this movie is, is both saying yes and kind of pointing out the hilarious and sad irony behind that, right? Which is, which is, in my opinion, why Christine Brown is so sympathetic in this movie is because like she is supposed to be like, like us, right? Like, like the viewer as sort of like a 21-year-old recent, recent college graduate who is like looking for jobs and at the same time thinking like, am I going to have to like sell my eternal soul to get a job in, you know, this, this era of late-stage American capitalism? And like, I really think that like the, the primary fear that this movie is playing with has, has everything to do with that, right? Like everything to do with this idea that like this woman is secretly afraid that she has lost, like, lost sense of herself and she is going to be eternally punished in some biblical sense because of that. And like the, the former overweightness of it, the fact that she covets clothing even, right? Like the fact that she has this boyfriend, all of that is like looping into this idea that like she, like in a more over-the-top version of this movie, she would be a Carrie-type character, right? Where you could, you could easily see her being like a formerly very religious woman who has sort of like given up religion but is afraid of like that happening. I'm glad that that stuff isn't in the movie, right? Because I think that would make it sort of more outdated. But like, I really think that that's a big part of what's happening here is that is this entire morality play that comes down to like, what if I have to do bad things at my work sometimes? Am I going to get dragged to hell?

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Sorry, on another page looking up a character name. Yeah, that is something I think about Every day. And it makes me think that like a lot of people in Christine's life are also like not haunted by their mistakes in the way that she is. Because, and you know, this movie is like a morality tale, a fable. Um, uh, certainly, you know, it's— I sort of read it, or the rather the thoughts that I couldn't let go of as I, I left the trial on watching it on, um, Watching it on that print, legitimately thought I was in the wrong movie, uh, because of like how the movie started out. And then, and like the print looking as like crisp as it is, I was like, fuck, did I— like, am I watching another movie in this year? And then like the wind starts blowing and the bass kicks in, and then the camera tilts, you know, like 30 degrees one way.

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And you're like, there he is.

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Yeah, he's back, baby. I missed you, buddy. Um, but, uh, thinking about, you know, it's, uh, you know, maybe like wrong is maybe too strong, but like not letting yourself be haunted by a mistake you are so clearly— it's weighing on you. And she, or her in this case, she clearly learned from it. She can't let it go. A lot of what she's experiencing is sort of Rami and friends' way of manifesting that sort of thing. But just because you learned something from it and you are wearing it so heavily on your that doesn't mean you're necessarily exonerated from it. That doesn't automatically translate to forgiveness, is maybe sort of like the fable kind of sour turn of it because not every fable ends up with a happy ending where you're lying in bed at the end of the day having a good night's sleep. But touching back onto the Lohmann performance of it all, the performance she's— I fully believe that this is the first time that character has ever made, maybe made a mistake, period. Certainly like a mistake of this magnitude. When she's getting into tantrums and throwing stuff around, I fully believe that is this character's first time like having an outburst. That

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she does have a certain repression about her that I think she sells really well. That's a good point.

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Yeah, the, the, like, I fully believe this is the first time her hair has gotten pulled out this many times. And I do love that the movie kind of calls back to that at the end of her character being like, that is the last of my hair you're getting. I

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said almost the exact same thing. I was like, how much fucking hair is this gonna get?

53:41.146 --> 54:53.019
It's like, I kept thinking, because I, I should say I had never seen this movie before, uh, the other, the other night. Um, so I was thinking about like, oh, the hair is maybe what's going to be used in the curse, not realizing it was, it was the button. Um, but it was just like, we keep going back to the hair, you know, play, uh, of it all. Um, but in the, all the ways in which, you know, I fully— it's not like quite a fish out of water story, but it's hard. It was hard for me to not think about it while watching without putting exact words to it and also kind of thinking about it. That is sort of the tone I think Rami is maybe trying to juggle versus you fully believe Clayton— Professor Clayton, excuse me, Clay as Wikipedia calls him in quotes— that he has gotten into, as he does with Dilip Rao, with Ram Dass, the sort of skeptic asshole catty, you know, motherfucker routine that he gets. Like, he— for all I know, this is like— maybe that's how he like goes about his day. He jumps in without hesitation, you know. He's, you know, clearly a Redditor or something. Did those exist back in 2009? You be the judge, dear listener. They certainly were.

54:53.019 --> 54:55.829
Unfortunately, yes, I can confirm. Very much so.

54:55.829 --> 55:44.581
My bad, my bad. Um, showing my ass here a little bit. Uh, but— and everybody else is, you know, sort of operating in that space where everybody is She is clearly not the most mistake-prone character in this story, but because of this particular story of her making this mistake, having a way out, and just— it is just one choice that she regrets, visibly regrets as she's making it, regrets it afterwards, and the ways in which the cosmos and beyond sort of fuck with her from then on out. Mr. Jack's, uh, you know, stew. These are not people who are— who should be exempt from going to hell, uh, but, you know, they, they don't wear their mistakes in the same way because, you know, they're, they're dudes who are cruising through the world at a different altitude.

55:44.581 --> 55:58.975
That's so important. She's surrounded by people who are worse than her, right? Who are more deserving of the curse, quote unquote deserving, than she would be, certainly, right? It's like it's both hyper-targeted and like totally fallible. Like it doesn't make any sense that that this is happening.

55:59.425 --> 56:01.175
Hey, can I ask you guys a question about this movie?

56:01.914 --> 56:02.444
Anytime.

56:03.359 --> 56:10.295
I knew the ending of this movie just from sort of I don't know probably clips on social media, pop culture, all that sort of stuff.

56:10.343 --> 56:12.334
The ending was the one thing I knew about this movie going in.

56:12.431 --> 56:22.530
Coin button swap, the help me the train, all that. Did anybody not know sort of the general gist of that who got by the coin button? thing.

56:22.530 --> 56:23.221
Now,

56:23.831 --> 56:33.417
no, I knew that. I knew that the dude is going across the street and she loses the envelope. I was like, oh, I see. Like, she— we're gonna think that that envelope is not there.

56:33.417 --> 56:35.873
I will say, buddy, when this film first came out, do you know,

56:35.889 --> 57:07.273
maybe— I can't imagine. My wife was watching it with me, and as soon as it hit the ground, like, as soon as they stopped short in the car and the envelope flies down, she was like, she's gonna mix it with the coin from earlier. And it was— that was just it. Like, we knew from there, it was like halfway through the fucking movie. But I did not know anything about the way that this movie ends. I didn't have anything on like the tone of it. I just knew Sam Raimi, and it was a Sam Raimi I hadn't seen before. Jesus Christ, how do we keep doing that?

57:07.273 --> 57:12.625
Sorry, I had something in my eye and I had to blink. I didn't realize I would fuck up the recording.

57:12.753 --> 57:14.259
You blink and so does Zen Caster.

57:16.840 --> 57:18.827
Uh, Jason, where were you going with this?

57:18.827 --> 58:29.401
Yeah, I need to take some notes for timing now. Yeah, sorry. Uh, no, it's, it's not, not anybody here's fault. Also, uh, gap. Um, how did you get it that bright? Interesting. Okay, Harry, you said earlier that maybe she can't let this go, or she—I forget exactly your phrasing—but it made me think like this movie cannot seem to let her go. This is like a series of Looney Tunes-ass bits that just keep haunting her and coming back despite her constantly getting like direction and directives from the Ramjas. I'm forgetting the character's name, but Dilly Brow. who is trying to guide her in this, in the means of all things spiritual, and tell her how to rid herself of this curse. Increasing levels of desperation and obviously like worse and worse situations that she's finding herself subject to. But it is punctuated by some of the best Sam Raimi-esque Sam Raimi-isms that I could even imagine happening, to the point where it feels almost like self-parody.

58:29.401 --> 58:30.349
It really does.

58:30.349 --> 58:32.310
Did you have as much fun with this as I did?

58:32.310 --> 01:00:32.779
Yeah, I would say that that's That's pretty clearly the, the real best, most fun thing, especially understanding that the exact point, um, that it came in his career, um, which, um, Aaron alluded to, right, where it's sort of like this is right after Spider-Man 3. Spider-Man 3, like, an incredibly difficult shoot, an incredibly difficult film to create pretty much at every level, did not— was not received the way he wanted it to be. I think at that point Sam Raimi sort of said, like, I never want to make another, like, big-budget studio movie again. Like, I'm so tired of this. It was a terrible experience for him. Like, this movie just absolutely sings with, like, the, the, like, like, the glee of Sam Raimi stepping back into his comfort zone, stepping back into his real, like, passion and joy, right? Mm-hmm. And, like, it really, like, it's, it's almost like, like you said, self-parody is a pretty good word for it. Like, you could play Sam Raimi bingo with this movie in terms of both specific shots and in terms of like, like specific viscous fluids, right? Specific, like types of terrible things that are going to happen. Fake-out jump scares, real jump scares. Like it really, like it's, it's so clearly just him having fun with, with it. And that's why, like, I think it works really well that it would work just on that level. But it also like ended up being A really like kind of weirdly culturally trenchant movie, in my opinion, about a person who is just sort of like so scared of like maintaining her own sense of morality that she's literally haunted by it, right? This idea that like, I did something bad and like, now am I a bad person? And like, even though like the stakes keep getting higher, that is something she can't let go of. And it like both literally and metaphorically haunts her through the movie. It really worked for me. that way. But, but like, it, it really worked maybe largely because Sam Raimi is having so much fucking fun here. Aaron, do you— what do you make of that? And I guess like, is that, is that also something you enjoyed?

01:00:32.779 --> 01:00:44.404
I think the typical Sam Raimi stuff here is, is like the best part of the movie, like by far. I think the, the parking garage scene is so well done. It is such a good

01:00:44.596 --> 01:00:47.291
It's— that's almost a problem for the movie, right?

01:00:47.484 --> 01:00:47.596
Yeah.

01:00:47.660 --> 01:00:53.355
In that, like, I think that is far and away the best part of this movie, and it's kind of all downhill from there, unfortunately.

01:00:53.917 --> 01:01:31.326
But I think there's a few— I think, I think the scene at home where she, she, you know, the Black Goat first starts to, like, you know, kind of like play tricks on her, like, yeah, that's pretty harmless, but like breaking, breaking windows and like the pots and pans sort of jingling. You know, I think that, like, Like, it's hard to kind of explain like vocally, but like something about like watching the scene at home when all that starts happening, just the like, it's almost like a Rube Goldberg machine of like her running into a room, you know, pots and pans in the kitchen jangling, her backing up, a window breaking behind her.

01:01:31.326 --> 01:01:45.943
Also, just like lizard brain excitement that I now realize that, that I'm watching a Sam Raimi movie and we're in a haunted house and like we're about to do a haunted house sequence. I'm just like, oh, fuck yeah. Like we're in the hands of the master. It's so fun. Yeah.

01:01:45.943 --> 01:02:40.627
Yeah. You know, I think that the— I think the other thing is like, and I don't usually say this about horror movies, but like I think something about this being in the PG-13 sweet spot kind of helps it where it's like the stuff here is often sort of grotesque and like, you know, there's slight body horror. and there's, you know, the fly crawling into her nostril and mouth and whatnot. Like, there's stuff like that and the puking. But I think like a lot of this is almost like slapstick in a manner that I think makes sort of the comedy and the horror blend together in a really, really interesting way. And then that, that sort of also mixed up with like just the kind of the basic plot element of like, hey, for 3 days, this, this, this goat is just going to sort of fuck fuck with you. He's gonna fuck your shit up, but you got 3 days. But after the 3 days, he's gonna drag you to hell. But for those 3 days, he's mostly going to like, I don't know, hit you with like a brick every once in a while.

01:02:40.627 --> 01:02:42.295
Kind of just an asshole. Yeah,

01:02:42.455 --> 01:02:47.106
he's gonna be, he's gonna be a douchebag. It works. I think it really works for me.

01:02:47.106 --> 01:04:15.034
Yeah, I think 2 things about that, which is one, absolutely, this is a hilarious movie, right? Like I said, I think the funniest scene is the like full-on like action sequence fight sequence that she has with the old lady in the parking garage that goes on so long and is so well staged and so well like plotted out. It's like genuinely a better fight sequence than you get in many action movies in a way that really rocks. And I really appreciated that. And then also I think like, and I also knew that this was PG-13 going into it. So maybe this defined or like skewed my expectations, but like it kind of has that cool like Spielberg thing going for it where like, because it's PG-13, the violence and the grossness is more shocking, right? Because it's sort of like a, how did he get away with that sort of thing? Like, like when she barfs maggots all over the main character, right? Or like all of the viscous liquids we've talked about before, right? It's sort of like, on top of that being really gross, it's also sort of like, oh, that's like a little bit grosser than I expected to see in any movie that could possibly be PG-13. And I'm like kind of impressed that he got away with it, right? I think Sam Raimi is kind of a master of doing that because he just calibrates tone so well. Send Help really felt like that too, where there's like a bunch of shit in Send Help that feels like way too intense to be in a PG-13 movie, but they just get away with it. But yeah, Jason, what did you make of, I guess, the combination of horror and comedy

01:04:15.560 --> 01:04:33.421
I actually think my tank is tapped, and it's probably time to get to our final segment of the show. You can you can tell we're trying to paste over some technical issues here into the final segment. Some of the final segments of our show, starting with the junk drawers where we put thoughts that didn't fit as part of the main conversation. Cody, you got one?

01:04:35.712 --> 01:04:40.014
Yeah. Y'all y'all caught Octavia Spencer, right? Mama.

01:04:40.707 --> 01:04:42.029
GSR in the background at the back.

01:04:42.077 --> 01:04:43.141
I think it's just Ma, isn't it?

01:04:43.627 --> 01:04:43.900
Is it Ma?

01:04:44.269 --> 01:04:46.324
It is just Ma. It was— I—

01:04:46.532 --> 01:04:48.828
there should be a sequel called Mama though. That would be really funny.

01:04:48.924 --> 01:05:14.387
There absolutely should be. And then Mama Ma. It was like that, that episode of Community where like Abed had his own like side adventure where he was like helping someone deliver a baby like in the background where like wasn't in focus, but he was still like kind of like a big part of the frame. Like Octavia Spencer as like background bank employee, like it was so clearly her. I like, I couldn't take my eyes off her once I saw her, but she was, she was like, she has like the focus of the movie,

01:05:14.419 --> 01:05:16.315
doesn't she? I don't know how she really got—

01:05:16.752 --> 01:05:19.857
how did you get billing without having any lines or like any solo screen time?

01:05:19.857 --> 01:05:22.826
She's fucking Octavia Spencer. She's Ma herself, dude.

01:05:22.826 --> 01:05:25.021
She is. I just want to make sure we saw her.

01:05:25.085 --> 01:05:26.070
That is pretty wild.

01:05:26.070 --> 01:05:39.400
Yeah, I guess I've got one junk drawer, which is just shoutouts to Justin Long. I think he's really funny in this movie. And I really love that he keeps coming up in movies like this. Like that barbarian was like stunt cast. casting for inexplicable scream king Justin Long.

01:05:39.400 --> 01:05:48.243
Do you think Craig? Do you think Craig saw this performance was like, I can do, I can do even better? Yeah, Justin Long sort of performance.

01:05:48.243 --> 01:06:22.582
Yeah, he's a millennial. He's seen this movie. I want to check. Did anybody, did, did he do, did Sam Raimi and his cinematographer do a split diopter shot between her face and a curtain? Is that what I saw? I feel like during that first haunting scene that Aaron's talking about where the, the Lamia starts like fucking with her at home. I think that like I couldn't really tell what he was trying to parallel in that scene until I looked on the left side of the screen. There's like in the foreground, in the background, literally just a blowing curtain and her face. It's like the most pointless— That's very funny.

01:06:22.983 --> 01:06:38.570
Also, maybe this is a conversation for another time when we had fewer technical difficulties. Has Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma killed old, um, pointing out split diopter shots for you guys, because it really— it kind of did for me. No, you're still just gonna do it?

01:06:38.570 --> 01:06:39.470
No, that shit still works.

01:06:39.470 --> 01:06:41.310
No, because I haven't watched it yet.

01:06:41.310 --> 01:06:42.990
Well, I knew, I knew that.

01:06:43.330 --> 01:06:45.120
He's, he's, he's, he's bagging himself in the backseat.

01:06:45.730 --> 01:06:46.490
He's bagging himself in the backseat.

01:06:46.490 --> 01:07:48.928
He's really shoving me, buddy, for, for, uh, for not supporting queer, uh, cinema is what he's doing, just for everybody's record. Yeah, see, turned it right back around on you. Um, and my last Really, really quick junk drawer thought is, um, I compared the mouth-to-mouth barfing scene in this movie with the one that we just discussed in The Conjuring and found myself heartily pleased by this one versus the one in The Conjuring, which is like, it is really very easy to fuck that up, I think. And the one in The Conjuring, I'm thinking of that one that I referenced at the end of that episode where it's just the Beelzebub or whatever, Bathsheba, like floating above the protagonist's face and barfing this like CGI red black shit versus in this movie it's just like 2 or 3 buckets of actual worms and maggots being poured into this poor girl's mouth. It's astonishing. It lasts just long enough. It's really gross. It is, it is an art, I think, an art to that specific kind of shot, and they really nailed it here. We have nothing more for the junk drawer, but we do have a final segment of this show which Harry has to help lead in with the

01:07:50.388 --> 01:08:00.642
The jingle. We'll call it a jingle. That's probably what it is, right? Theme song, jingle, theme jingle. It's the segment we'd like to call Cody's Noties.

01:08:01.637 --> 01:08:47.573
Thank you, gentlemen. That introduction is right behind you. This week we will be participating in something that I like to call Drag Me to Bell, as in Taco Bell. Fucking finally. All right, drag me there, buddy. I'm gonna ask some questions. You'll give me some answers. Points will be distributed, and that'll be that. Trivia Mafia rules apply here, which means use your noodles and not your Googles. With that, let's go ahead and jump in. First question for y'all: Who founded Taco Bell? Who is the founder of Taco Bell? Is that? I'm gonna give you three options here. Was it Glenn Bell? Was it Dan and Frank Carney? Or was it Jim Patterson? And our first guest comes from Harry. Harry, who is Taco Bell's founder?

01:08:47.573 --> 01:08:51.567
Some white dudes, huh? Some white-ass dudes founded that.

01:08:51.567 --> 01:08:56.717
Harry goes to Taco Bell and he's like, I wonder if a, if a person of color founded this restaurant.

01:08:56.717 --> 01:09:03.695
Well, they should have, Jason. They should have. Um, I'm gonna go with Jim Pat— what was the third one? Jim Patterson?

01:09:03.695 --> 01:09:04.545
Jim Patterson.

01:09:04.545 --> 01:09:05.412
Yeah, let's do that.

01:09:05.412 --> 01:09:05.813
The author?

01:09:06.198 --> 01:09:18.879
Robert Pattinson is an actor. Uh, he did not, uh, he should have founded Taco Bell. But I got you down for Jim Patterson. Going next over to Jason. Glen Bell, Dan and Frank Carney, or Jim Patterson, who founded Taco Bell?

01:09:18.879 --> 01:09:23.921
I think this is too ambitious a vision for one man. I'm going to say it was the Carnies.

01:09:23.921 --> 01:09:27.100
One of them came up with the tacos, the other came up with the bell.

01:09:27.100 --> 01:09:28.738
Harry's got it on the nose.

01:09:28.738 --> 01:09:35.724
Wow. That is a shirt. And then over to Aaron. Aaron, you covering the spread or you going in a different direction.

01:09:35.724 --> 01:09:36.913
I'll cover the spread.

01:09:36.913 --> 01:09:52.593
All right. Covering the spread with Glenn Bell. Sounds like a good podcast. Who founded Taco Bell? That was, of course, of course, of course, Glenn Bell. Glenn Bell is the founder of Taco Bell. Dan and Frank Carney.

01:09:52.593 --> 01:10:01.285
I love the thought process there because there was a Bell and you're like, they're going to think, oh, it's too obvious. I'm going to make 2 sets of names without Bell.

01:10:01.943 --> 01:10:02.104
True.

01:10:02.104 --> 01:10:03.901
But I just got it by covering the spread.

01:10:03.901 --> 01:10:10.049
Very true. Uh, Dan and Frank Carney, shoutouts. They founded— anybody want to guess? I know we're on a time crunch, but—

01:10:10.049 --> 01:10:12.392
Taco Carney, I think, is the one they founded.

01:10:12.392 --> 01:10:15.586
I think of a similar tier to Taco Bell.

01:10:15.586 --> 01:10:17.062
Uh, Taco John?

01:10:17.062 --> 01:10:22.134
It is Pizza Hut. Uh, and then Jim— and then Jim Patterson, what did he found?

01:10:22.134 --> 01:10:26.773
Don't you fucking say Pizza Hut is on the same tier as my GOAT Taco Bell. How

01:10:26.901 --> 01:10:29.064
dare I know, in scare quotes.

01:10:29.145 --> 01:10:33.118
Well, they're often in Minecraft in the same building. They're often combinations.

01:10:33.167 --> 01:10:36.467
You're often in a— literally, you keep talking like that, Harry. How about that?

01:10:37.060 --> 01:11:11.241
They are not in a combination with Long John Silver's, which is what Jim Patterson founded. Uh, Aaron picks up the point there. Uh, second question: Glen Bell opened the first Taco Bell in 1962 in Downey, California. This location was in a small kind of walk-up style building that served tacos, burritos, tostadas, uh, chili burgers and frijoles. Every item on the menu had the same price. My question for you is, what listed price in 1962 was in place for each food item? And Aaron's got the first guess. Aaron, how much do you think these items cost in 1962 at the first Taco Bell?

01:11:11.241 --> 01:11:14.966
Oh, that is a rough one.

01:11:14.966 --> 01:11:16.749
Our favorite flavor of question.

01:11:16.749 --> 01:11:22.353
I'm gonna say 59 cents.

01:11:22.353 --> 01:11:32.982
59 cents, says Aaron. Thank you for your guess. Next guess gonna come from the mouth of one Harry. Harry, how much do you think these cost at the first Taco Bell?

01:11:32.982 --> 01:11:34.684
Let's go 89 cents.

01:11:34.684 --> 01:11:38.939
89 cents. And Jason, over to you. How much do you think?

01:11:38.939 --> 01:11:40.240
What was the year again?

01:11:40.240 --> 01:11:41.926
1962.

01:11:41.926 --> 01:11:45.233
Oh, I'm gonna go like 20 cents.

01:11:46.306 --> 01:11:48.705
$0.20 says Jason with the 2

01:11:48.721 --> 01:11:49.027
bits.

01:11:49.027 --> 01:13:09.626
Shave and a haircut. Uh, the actual retail, actual retail price of these items, uh, 1962, uh, a piece, $0.19. Almost exactly on the money, Jason. He picks up the point, uh, which is a little over $2 today. Uh, if I were to go into the Taco Bell app right now in order to, uh, a crunchy or hard shell, uh, crunchy or hard shell, crunchy or soft shell taco It would be, I believe it was $1.69 before tax. So roughly in line with inflation, if not maybe a little bit better. Taco Bell's always looking out for us. And Jason picked up the point, picked up the point there. Aaron and Jason are on the board. Harry has yet to get on the board, but it's still very much anybody's game as we head into our 3rd question. From August 1997 to July 2000, a Chihuahua was utilized as the brand's mascot. Across different you know advertising mediums with slogans including "Yo quiero Taco Bell" and "Viva gorditas." They punctured the zeitgeist. I'm going to spin move around doing the voice, but my question for y'all is: What was the name of this dog? What was the name of this Taco Bell Chihuahua? Your options are Carlos, Gidget, or Jaime. Which one of those was the name of this Chihuahua? And Harry's got. first guess. Do the voice, or you can just guess.

01:13:09.626 --> 01:13:19.732
Oh, this is tough because I want to say Gidget because that sounds like a mascot I remember, but it might be for another restaurant and you might be being tricky here. I am going to go with Gidget though, I guess.

01:13:19.732 --> 01:13:33.753
Gotcha. Gotcha. Harry is going with Gidget. Thank you for your guess. And the next guess, of course, is going to come from Aaron. The wheel will land on you eventually. Aaron, what do you think? Carlos, Gidget, Jaime?

01:13:34.058 --> 01:13:35.518
I'm also going Gidget.

01:13:35.518 --> 01:13:42.594
Aaron is also going Gidget. Jason, what about you? Impossible to cover the spread, so don't sweat about that. But which direction you going?

01:13:42.594 --> 01:13:44.358
I'm going, going Carlos.

01:13:44.358 --> 01:14:13.412
Going Carlos. Jaime left to his own devices. The answer is indeed Gidget. The name of the individual who provided the voice of Gidget is named Carlos Jaime Alazraqui, which is how I got those other names. I tried to find Yeah, thank you. I tried to find options from other names or like mascot names, but those were all just like way too obvious. Just like, what was it? Gidget? Was it fucking Hamburglar?

01:14:13.733 --> 01:14:15.481
What's the name of Wendy's?

01:14:16.380 --> 01:14:49.820
Yeah, we're all we're all trying to find that out. Aaron in the lead with two points. Harry and Jason with a point apiece. We've got two more questions to go here. Starting in 2007, Taco Bell first offered the steal a base, steal a taco. Taco promo, which established that if or when a player from either baseball team stole a base during the World Series, every US citizen would be eligible to receive one free taco. This is a promotion that is still active to this day with every Major League Baseball World Series. So this is, you know, we're on the verge of another promotion.

01:14:49.820 --> 01:14:57.274
It's like not really a close call. They're the best fast food franchise, huh? Like, yeah, without a fucking doubt.

01:14:57.338 --> 01:14:58.045
Unironically.

01:14:58.767 --> 01:15:13.467
Yeah, absolutely. Stamp of approval here, which is you know why I'm kicking myself. It takes so long to talk about them. We'll probably have a number of Noties installments going forward dedicated to Taco Bell. This Wikipedia page is a treasure trove. Don't go looking through it because it will show up in future notes.

01:15:13.532 --> 01:15:14.141
Do not tease us.

01:15:15.199 --> 01:16:18.497
I wouldn't tease you if there weren't a chance of it eventually happening. But shout out to Jacoby Ellsbury or Taco Bellsbury as he was nicknamed. shortly after this, he was on the Red Sox. He was the first hero, American hero, to steal a base and unlock millions of tacos for the masses. In which game of the World Series was this base for— was a base first stolen? So in this, you know, Jacoby Ellsbury in history books, you know, soon if he isn't already. He stole a base. In which World Series game was a base first stolen? And for reference, in case folks aren't aware of the World Series is a best out of 7 games. So, you know, saying game like, you know, 21 would be a bad answer. But Aaron is the first guesser here. And what game of the World Series was a base first stolen, do you think? 3. Aaron with game 3. Got you down for that. Thank you. Harry, over to you next. In which game of the World Series do you think a base was first stolen?

01:16:18.497 --> 01:16:20.036
I'll go with Game 2, Cody.

01:16:20.036 --> 01:16:26.865
Game 2 says Harry. And Jason, over to you. Not really a spread to cover, but you know what direction you want to go.

01:16:26.865 --> 01:16:28.773
It's closest wins?

01:16:28.773 --> 01:16:32.348
Uh, yeah, closest, or if somebody gets it exactly.

01:16:32.348 --> 01:16:33.951
Going Game 4.

01:16:33.951 --> 01:17:57.778
Game 4 says Jason. Uh, Jacoby Ellsbury— Jacoby Ellsbury, excuse me— uh, stole the first base of the 2007 World Series in the bottom of the 4th inning of Game 2. So that one goes to Harry. Uh, Harry with 2 points, Aaron with 2 points, Jason with a point as we head into our final question. And for our final round, uh, maybe more so what, what folks were expecting from something like this, but I'm gonna list 4 Taco Bell menu items and y'all are gonna need to rank them in the order that they debuted, starting with the item that debuted the earliest in time in history. Your menu items are as follows, and then I'll vamp a little bit, but your menu items are Baja Blast, the legendary soda, the breakfast menu— talk about breakfast menu— the full menu, Crunchwrap Supreme, and Doritos Locos Tacos. So again, ranking those, or rather ordering those items from Earliest debut to most recent debut. And again, those items are the Baja Blast, the breakfast menu, Crunchwrap Supreme, and Doritos Locos Tacos. The first person that came up in my queue for a guess was Jason. Jason, do you have an order for me or do you have a— yeah, you're going to get the Crunchwrap combo.

01:17:57.778 --> 01:18:00.105
Yeah. If you could pick me up a beefy 5-layer person.

01:18:01.532 --> 01:18:05.430
Hardily any day. But yeah, do you have an order prepared for this particular exercise?

01:18:05.430 --> 01:18:26.059
Yeah, and you picked like— I don't know about the rest of the menu, but you must have picked the ones that are like millennials saw these hitting when they were in their youth objects, right? Because like the Crunchwrap and the Baja Blast in particular and Doritos Locos Tacos, I think were all in the early mid-2000s, maybe mid-late. Anyway.

01:18:26.059 --> 01:18:27.550
Only one way to find out, brother.

01:18:27.550 --> 01:18:44.113
I know, I know. And that's the The worst part is that you only give us one right answer. I'm gonna go for breakfast menu at first, as in earliest added to the menu. I'm gonna go with Crunchwrap Supreme next, then Baja Blast, then Doritos Locos Tacos.

01:18:45.334 --> 01:19:05.560
Gotcha. Thank you for your answer. I'm whoops there we go. I'm gonna read these back just to make sure I heard them and transcribed. Them appropriately. I've got breakfast menu, Crunchwrap Supreme, Baja Blast, Doritos Locos Tacos. Did I dyslexic any of those into wrong places, or is that accurate?

01:19:05.961 --> 01:19:07.645
Um, uh, see.

01:19:09.024 --> 01:19:24.565
Um, uh, gracias. I'm trying. We're all doing our best. And you know what? It's not gonna be good enough. Uh, but that will not— uh, excellent. Okay, it landed on somebody new. I can stop talking. Aaron, over to you. What is your guess for this order?

01:19:25.369 --> 01:19:33.232
Going earliest, Baja Blast, then the Crunchwrap Supreme, then Doritos Locos Tacos, and then Breakfast Menu.

01:19:34.250 --> 01:19:45.286
Gotcha. Thank you for that. I'm just gonna read it back to make sure I heard it. You know that whole song and dance. Baja Blast, Crunchwrap Supreme, Doritos Locos Tacos, and Breakfast Menu. Is that right?

01:19:48.170 --> 01:19:48.364
Yes.

01:19:49.316 --> 01:20:00.759
Okay. Thank you. I wasn't. I'm looking at a difference here. So not a visual medium, you bastard. It's all good. We're all good. We're all good. And then last but not least, Harry, over to you. Do you have an order for me? Ding ding.

01:20:00.759 --> 01:20:13.091
Yeah, let's go. Oldest is Crunchwrap. Second oldest is Baja Blast. Third oldest is Doritos Locos. And fourth oldest or newest is Breakfast Menu.

01:20:13.091 --> 01:20:14.102
Gotcha.

01:20:14.102 --> 01:20:21.248
This was exactly my guess until I swapped Baja Blast and Crunchwrap. So I'm either— I've been going back and forth too. So Yeah,

01:20:21.665 --> 01:20:32.631
gotcha, gotcha. I'm gonna read that back, uh, once more. Uh, Crunchwrap Supreme, Baja Blast, Doritos Locos Tacos, and breakfast menu. Is that— did I hear and write that correctly?

01:20:32.631 --> 01:20:33.177
Yes.

01:20:33.177 --> 01:21:17.707
Baller. Thank you, gentlemen. Uh, tabulations are being done by my, my paid intern here in the background, but while that's getting done, I just want to say thank you. This has been Drag Me to Bell. Again, you do not need to drag me there. Just say literally less and I'm there. These are— rather, this is the actual order that I could find in the archives, the TV archives, as far as these items being debuted. Coming in hot, July 2004 in restaurants, and then about a decade later available for retail purchase in in stores. Baja Blast, uh, yeah, the engineer menu item.

01:21:17.707 --> 01:21:18.671
That's the one.

01:21:18.671 --> 01:21:21.064
I sound like this one. Yeah.

01:21:21.770 --> 01:22:22.618
Uh, and then, uh, to your point, Jason, as far as, you know, these items, uh, 2— their pairs of them are sort of grouped together, like, pretty close. So, like, Baja Blast, July 2004, and then, um, shortly thereafter, June 2005, is when the Crunchwrap Supreme first came onto the menu as a specialty item, and then it was a permanent fixture, uh, you know, from 2006 onward. So there's that. And then as far as these last 2 items, I will just say March 2012 for one of these, and then March 2014 for, uh, the latter. And in that order, it is Doritos Locos Tacos followed by the breakfast menu. Um, I shout out to the Cool Ranch flavor. I know Nacho Cheese became the the menu mainstay. Uh, I like the Cool Ranch Dorito, I think, a little bit more, but as like a taco shell, it's— it doesn't work as well because it's like a more subtle flavoring. Um, also shout out to AM Crunchwraps, Cinnabon Delights. That breakfast menu has some bangers. So, uh, all in all, Baja Blast, Crunchwrap Supreme, Doritos Locos Tacos breakfast menu.

01:22:22.618 --> 01:22:25.444
Didn't he run the board just now?

01:22:25.444 --> 01:22:50.675
So where does that leave us? Jason came into the final round with a point, picked up a point, and And thus ended the game with 2 points. Harry came into the final round with 2 points, picked up 2, ended with 4. Aaron came into the final round with 2 points and he aced it. So he ended the entire game with 6. The pop-off platform belongs to Aaron and Aaron alone. Give us your Taco Bell order or preach your truth in any other capacity, if you would.

01:22:50.675 --> 01:23:04.108
Buddy, all these other people talk about loving Taco Bell. Not like, not like me. All right. When— ask me when's the last time I've eaten at a fucking BK, McDonald's, Arby's, you name it. I don't give a fuck.

01:23:04.108 --> 01:23:05.887
Well, you don't have any of those anymore, right?

01:23:05.887 --> 01:23:06.291
Yeah.

01:23:08.118 --> 01:23:50.529
Every single time I'm going to Taco Bell— love Taco Bell, uh, it's the best fast food, shout out Taco Bell— I could feel it in my bones. I was literally thinking, I fucking know I gotta switch this Baja Blast Crunchwrap. Baja Blast gives like '90s energy, actually. I'm surprised it was only 2003 or '04 or whatever you said. I could have sworn that's a big like, ooh, got a, got a big old plastic cup of that playing like Ocarina of Time. That's the sort of vibe I get. Um, no, my, uh, my order, I'm usually going, I'm usually these days, I'm usually going for, uh, like a Crave box, like a Luxe Crave box situation. And I— Gotta get your money's worth. But, uh, Crunchwrap Supreme, of course, the GOAT.

01:23:56.576 --> 01:24:52.620
Gotta say, thanks, Cody, for ending our episodes as always such a fun lighthearted note. I want to regale the listener with a quick story of— so, I am in a habit usually and in my best self of going on a bike ride before doing anything else in my day. And, we were in a good clip there of Aaron and I playing video games on Tuesdays and Thursdays at about 7:00 a.m. my time. I would do my bike ride. I would get home, maybe shower first, but usually on my ride back, the Quarry Taco Bell, if you know where that is in Minneapolis, I would grab some breakfast from Taco Bell. It was a perfect layup. Get up early, get coffee, bike ride, Taco Bell, video games. It was like I was 10 again, right? I get into one of these sessions of playing video games and I think Aaron's playing, though I forget which of us was playing the game. And he said, what are you eating? Because he could tell because I was on microphone chewing. And I said, I'm eating a breakfast Crunchwrap. And he was like, "They make breakfast crunch wraps." That's the kind of man you're dealing with here.

01:24:53.832 --> 01:24:57.063
He guessed four. He guessed four individual words correctly.

01:24:57.513 --> 01:25:00.069
He has no. He has no scruples.

01:25:00.262 --> 01:25:00.326
Yeah.

01:25:00.407 --> 01:25:05.920
He has. He has even less moral fortitude and grit. He deserves hell.

01:25:06.354 --> 01:25:08.041
Okay. First of all, you made this pop.

01:25:08.202 --> 01:25:16.740
You didn't have the pop-up platform, right? There is that. Yeah. I do take umbrage to that. Also, Jason just had to. Fucking pump himself up for like 5 minutes straight before he could come out.

01:25:16.740 --> 01:25:18.160
Tell the story about the order of breakfast.

01:25:18.160 --> 01:25:28.580
He was like, yes, I get up at 6 in the morning every day so I can go for a bike ride, and then I work out, and then I do calculus, and then I go home to see my beautiful wife. It's like, fuck you, man.

01:25:28.580 --> 01:25:29.950
Was it Lucas in Boy Meets World?

01:25:29.950 --> 01:25:43.019
Here's what I'd say. I, I have never eaten Taco Bell breakfast. That's number one. Uh, 2, I don't know if I'm— I love Taco Bell. I don't know if I'm interested in eating Taco Bell in the morning. That is a shameful This is the man you just made your king.

01:25:43.131 --> 01:25:45.745
Can you fucking believe that you just gave him all these points, man?

01:25:45.745 --> 01:25:56.524
They do not serve the breakfast at the Taco Bell near my house because not everybody is a big city coastal elite like you, pal. We live out in the real heartland of America and they don't serve Taco Bell there.

01:25:56.524 --> 01:25:58.305
We do have a lot of coastline in Minnesota. What if—

01:25:58.369 --> 01:26:05.891
what if Aaron is like, he's just, uh, some Kazakh teenager puppeting a VTuber who pretends to be a real person?

01:26:05.891 --> 01:26:17.440
I remember this story because the next day I I went out trying to get their breakfast and they were like, yeah, we don't serve that shit. And I was like, all right, well, I'll get normal fucking lunch at fucking 9 AM, I guess.

01:26:17.440 --> 01:26:19.420
You didn't buy a ticket? A plane? A train?

01:26:19.420 --> 01:26:27.410
I like to think that Arin just sat down in that Taco Bell and waited, uh, until it was lunchtime and then just went back up to the counter.

01:26:27.410 --> 01:26:28.120
Pulled

01:26:28.120 --> 01:26:32.340
out a boot. A fast forward of like the sun just— Right, exactly.

01:26:32.340 --> 01:26:35.410
Like Metal Gear Solid 4, you just had like a cigarette. Hell

01:26:35.410 --> 01:26:57.750
yeah! Well, that's been our episode. Thanks for listening. Get more episodes wherever you get podcasts. Go to the Trilon's website. Go to the Trilon itself if you can. Trilon.org, Trilon Cinema on social media, or down on 28th and Minnehaha here in Minneapolis. Go visit it. Maybe you'll see us there. My name is Jason Daphnis. Thank you very much for listening. You can find me on Twitter, Bluesky, Instagram, Letterboxd, etc. @Intendufus.

01:26:57.750 --> 01:27:03.256
Live mas, not manos. I've been Cody Narvis, and you can find me on Bluesky and Letterboxd @CodyNarvis. I've

01:27:03.336 --> 01:27:14.353
been Harry Mackin. Shoutouts to the Cory Taco Bell, by the way. I haven't thought about the Cory Taco Bell in a little while because unfortunately I don't live there anymore, but it truly the GOAT. There are fewer places to me in college.

01:27:14.353 --> 01:27:23.651
Yes. Sorry. Fewer places in the universe that, or if any places that feel safer to me than the Cory Taco Bell.

01:27:23.651 --> 01:27:25.899
It's a very, very special place. What I hate.

01:27:25.996 --> 01:27:26.140
Yeah.

01:27:26.606 --> 01:27:30.184
Yes. Sorry. You can find me on Letterboxd at Shiitake Harry.

01:27:31.736 --> 01:27:40.047
My name is Aaron. You can find me at the fucking Taco Bell, unlike these hacks. Except for Cody, maybe. I don't know. We'll talk. We need to quiz him on Taco Bell. We'll see how it goes.

01:27:40.311 --> 01:27:54.320
But I'm busy that day. I welcome the dead into my soul. I welcome the dead into my soul. I welcome the dead into my soul. I

01:27:54.514 --> 01:27:57.339
welcome I welcome the dead into my soul.

01:27:57.339 --> 01:27:58.463
Aaron?

01:27:58.463 --> 01:28:01.867
I welcome the dead into my soul.

01:28:01.867 --> 01:28:03.745
He's not into the dead. He's not into Taco Bell.

01:28:03.745 --> 01:28:06.009
I am not your clown.

01:28:06.009 --> 01:28:11.212
All right, well, in that case— in that case, we will meet again.

01:30:02.534 --> 01:30:05.783
Did you guys see that? Am I losing my mind? Did you guys blink out like that?

01:30:05.783 --> 01:30:06.689
I saw it.

01:30:06.689 --> 01:30:12.137
Everybody but Harry blinked out for me, and everybody is back now. Can everybody hear everybody? Arin, can I get you on mic?

01:30:12.137 --> 01:30:13.911
I think you blinked out for everybody else.

01:30:13.911 --> 01:30:14.588
You blinked out for me.

01:30:14.588 --> 01:30:15.765
Yeah.

01:30:15.765 --> 01:30:22.693
Yeah. My dot was yellow, but everybody else was green. But listen, if I didn't blink out, I didn't blink out. Thanos didn't get me with the fucking snap, y'all. I don't think—

01:30:22.693 --> 01:30:25.380
It's getting spooky in here. It's Halloween season.

01:30:25.380 --> 01:30:28.920
Was there more on those points, or should I find a pivot?

01:30:30.116 --> 01:30:33.254
Can I, can I ask a question as a pivot? I don't know if you want to do it.

01:30:33.254 --> 01:30:35.794
Sure, make it, make it a clean, make it a clean question. Yeah.