WEBVTT 00:00.410 --> 00:34.326 Dubbin' in the dark, gonna find our spark. Blind tech magic, learn and love, embark. With Desiree Renee guiding us today. Feel the keys in play, let the tech light our way. Jargon in our head code, we got a thread. Smart and witty, pass out of words unsaid. Screen reader sings, it's that new age bling. Oh, it's tech exploring, makes our spirits swing. Eyes closed, we're seeing, hearts beating, believing. Together we're achieving, no hurdles deceiving. Desiree's leading, all the knowledge we're feeding. Laughing while we're reading this tech quest succeeded. 00:34.326 --> 02:32.449 Hi everyone, and welcome to today's episode of Learning Blind Tech with Desiree Renee. That's me. I'm glad you joined us today, and I'm glad also that it hasn't been quite as long between this episode and the last as it was before my last episode. So we're getting better, right? Progress, progress. So I have a very special treat for us today, and I'm not biased. Well, maybe I am a little bit, but I also feel like this is a big game changer for a lot of us who are blind who create presentations. And I'm not just meaning presentations, I mean visually accessible, appealing presentations. There is a new app out there and it is now available for pre-order, and it is through Hartchen Consultancy, and it was thought of and created by my husband, Jonathan Simeone. So yeah, there's the non-biased part. And it is called PresentABLE. And it basically makes the presentation creation and viewing process accessible to us using JAWS. So for this episode, I did an interview with him, and I want to play that for you. And then we did a short demonstration of kind of the basics of the app and talked through some of the basic features. And there will be more to come on this application as time goes on, as far as walkthroughs and explanations of how the app works. But for now, I want to play the interview and the demonstration for you, and we will go from there. So I am joined today by my awesome vibe coding Extraordinaire husband Jonathan. So hello. 02:32.917 --> 02:35.978 Hi, and thanks for having me on the podcast today. 02:36.301 --> 02:49.763 Absolutely. Thanks for coming. I want to talk about your application called Presentable. So tell us what it is and where it came from and all that good stuff. 02:50.820 --> 03:00.492 So Presentable is an app that a desktop Windows app. designed to work now with JAWS, and I'm assuming we'll get into that later. 03:00.492 --> 03:00.765 Yes. 03:00.765 --> 03:44.551 But just so people know exactly what it is, and it is really designed to give those of us who are blind the ability to create and review PowerPoint presentations on a desktop app and do everything that we would want to do Independently. As a brief bit of background, I have created dozens and dozens of presentations in my life for different jobs that I've had, and I've presented them to literally thousands of people, almost all of whom, given the way the employment world works, are cited. 03:44.551 --> 03:45.562 Mm-hmm. 03:45.562 --> 03:53.831 So I've been using PowerPoint for well over a decade. Um, with JAWS, and I hate it. 03:53.831 --> 03:57.331 I was going to ask you, how do you feel about PowerPoint? 03:57.331 --> 04:47.435 I hate it. Um, so I have for a very, very long time wanted an accessible way to create PowerPoint presentations that were accessible to those of us who use assistive technologies, but professional looking. So they could be shown to audiences and used to share information. And I wanted the whole process to be as accessible and inclusive as it could be. And so about 2 months ago, one Saturday morning, I was drinking coffee and I was reading on Mastodon about more people in our community vibe coding apps for different things. As you know, I like tech. I'm kind of nerdy. 04:47.435 --> 04:49.694 I think that goes for both of us. 04:49.694 --> 05:08.071 And I enjoy trying to see what's possible. So I decided I'm gonna see if I can do this. You know, I'm not the kind of person who's gonna start with making a cuckoo clock or something. Like, I'm getting a running start, hurtling off the diving board. 05:08.071 --> 05:08.968 Oh yeah. 05:08.968 --> 05:54.480 And trying to see how far I can fly, right? And in a week or two, I realized that a lot of what I wanted was actually going to be possible. That with no knowledge of code at all, just a really, I hope, well-thought-out concept and an idea of what we needed, that with Codex from ChatGPT coding and me doing extensive testing with JAWS, we could wind up with something that was actually going to work and make my hopes of an accessible presentation creation app and review app possible. 05:54.480 --> 06:05.453 So it's not like an extension to PowerPoint where you have to open PowerPoint and then open your application and you still use the PowerPoint interface. It's its own interface? 06:05.453 --> 06:35.492 It's a standalone, completely accessible, keyboard-driven application. That now, we'll get into this later, but thanks to Brian Harchin's contributions, it has fabulous Braille support, which is critical because I'm primarily a Braille user. I love Braille, and I really wanted Braille support. And thanks to Brian, we now have, I believe, incredibly good Braille support. 06:35.492 --> 06:44.341 So in the past, when you created your own PowerPoint presentations, would you do them within PowerPoint sometimes or all the time, or would you do other ways? 06:45.094 --> 07:35.334 So for years, I did them in PowerPoint, and then I tried the trick where you can create basic slides with titles and bullets in Word and import them as an outline into PowerPoint. It did help some, but it was very limiting. You couldn't place images, for example. You couldn't do speakers' notes. It was very— it was not a very thorough process. I did image-only slides to ensure that they wouldn't have content crowding and those kinds of issues for a long time. But really, the truth is, whenever I created one, I hated it. I felt like my ability to show the audience who I am and my creativity was really stymied. 07:35.334 --> 07:35.846 Yeah. 07:35.846 --> 07:52.346 By the inaccessibility of PowerPoint and the lack of accessible presentation creation options. in PowerPoint and the inability to really get useful feedback as to how the, the slides actually looked. 07:52.346 --> 08:06.141 And that was a big part of like the testing process was I want the app to tell me, okay, it's crowded or there's too much text here or that image is too big. You need to crop it. Like all of that exists live in the app. 08:06.141 --> 08:25.512 It does. And the other thing that just to continue along the same thread, when I first started playing with ChatGPT as a tool, I then advanced into having ChatGPT create PowerPoint templates for me. 08:25.512 --> 08:26.817 Yeah. 08:26.817 --> 09:10.045 I started using ChatGPT to help me create file types that I could reuse. That helped a little, but it still left a lot of stuff unchanged. There still was no way to fully understand how the images were playing up, how the content was appearing. The templates gave me the ability to control fonts and things like that. But most of what I wanted was still lacking. And so when I was motivated to try this, I'm like, let's go for the moon. Yeah, you know, let's see how much of this stuff I can really include in an app. 09:10.045 --> 09:59.456 And personally, like, my workflow has always been— and I showed this last episode— not always, but recently, has been to have ChatGPT literally create the slide deck for me. But, you know, when I do that, and it's fine, and it worked, I think, right? I have no idea. I had my images on their own slides and that kind of thing. But I really had no input on anything within, like if I wanted to have even a decorative image. Not that I did that a lot, but if I wanted to, I really couldn't have any control over what it looked like. And I could tell ChatGPT, and then I could have somebody look at it and go out to Aira or whatever and have them review my presentation. But, you know, I really didn't have any personal idea of how it looked or how it was on the screen. 09:59.456 --> 10:10.434 No. And if I could just, as I found out when I started using Presentable, I'm very wordy. But if I could just tell a quick story. 10:10.434 --> 10:10.738 Sure. 10:10.738 --> 10:26.783 There's a presentation on disability equity. As you know, I've given this presentation a lot over the last few years, probably to hundreds and hundreds of exclusively sighted audiences. 10:26.783 --> 10:27.537 Mhm. 10:27.537 --> 11:12.882 And I, you know, never felt fully good about it because I knew of the limitations. And I did a lot of things to ask people. I asked sighted colleagues of mine how it looked. I asked people when I gave the presentation for feedback, you know, when One of the questions I asked was, how do the slides appear visually? I even called Aira and asked for assistance in telling me, how does this look? And if there are problems, can you help me fix them? I did all of those things. And when I ran this presentation through Presentable, my 24-slide presentation had 28 errors and warnings. 11:12.882 --> 11:14.149 Wow. 11:14.149 --> 11:34.692 So I realized then. that, A, I wasn't delivering the kind of trainings I wanted to. I wasn't showing people my own ability. Things didn't look the way they should have. And a lot of sighted people were giving me a pass because I'm blind. 11:34.692 --> 11:38.364 Or maybe it's just because they didn't know. Maybe they're thinking, oh, it looks fine to me. 11:38.364 --> 11:40.497 Yeah, that could be. I hate that though. 11:40.497 --> 11:40.962 I do too. 11:40.962 --> 11:41.299 Right? 11:41.636 --> 11:41.892 Yeah. 11:42.566 --> 12:20.829 And the other thing that I discovered from this experience is that A lot of sighted people will not give you what they consider maybe critical feedback. And a lot of people, if you ask them to help you fix it, either aren't interested in doing everything that that means, or, you know, coming back to your point, don't know how to use PowerPoint themselves well enough to help you fix it. And so I realized then that we need to have something that lets us do this on our own. 12:20.829 --> 12:47.687 And it's not just the creation of the PowerPoint either. It's— you can actually take someone else's PowerPoint and import it into this application and receive the same kind of information about those slides and also just, you know, follow along with them if they're presenting using that PowerPoint and have accessibility at your fingertips, literally with the Braille, for other people's PowerPoint presentations. 12:47.687 --> 13:29.149 That's correct. I mean, one of the things— it wasn't to me going to be good enough to just create things. You know, when I was working at different jobs, I would often go to other people's trainings and presentations myself. And they would send me largely inaccessible presentations. And so I wanted the app to also give me the ability to import PowerPoint presentations and apply all of the accessibility functionality that the app has to those. And, you know, the other day you actually had a chance to test some of this. 13:29.149 --> 14:12.847 Yes, I did, in real time, in an actual session. With someone else's PowerPoint, and I was able to easily get to the speaker notes. I didn't have to mess around with the PowerPoint, put it in slideshow mode, oh wait, I need the speaker notes, I gotta F6 and do all the finagling that we have to do in PowerPoint to just get the information. And so I wasn't distracted during the presentation by all of that. I was actually able to follow along with them in the slides and get a good list of them in Braille. and all of that without even opening it in PowerPoint. So it was fabulous. And because of that, I guess, you said, you know, this is offered mainly for JAWS users. Why did you make that decision? 14:12.847 --> 14:56.212 When I started creating the app, I had no idea if it would even be successful. I never vibe-coded anything in my life. I had no expectations other than I want to try this. And as it started growing and I started to see its potential and what I could actually achieve working with Codex, my original thought honestly was, I'm gonna probably just make this available free to people and let any screen reader use it. That was my original intent once I realized it could actually be something. Then, as you know, because we both tested it with NVDA. 14:56.212 --> 14:56.629 Yes. 14:56.629 --> 15:34.047 NVDA really didn't work well with the app, and I think that's related to the fact that NVDA just doesn't support Office in nearly the same way that JAWS does. And the other issue is that the NVDA Braille support just wasn't what I wanted or needed. And, and that's generally, you know, NVDA doesn't have the same level of Braille support that JAWS does, uh, even without Brian's scripting. It just, it doesn't. 15:34.047 --> 15:34.224 Yeah. 15:34.224 --> 15:56.905 And so when I realized that the app wasn't going to work well in NVDA, uh, and that the Braille wasn't going to be what I wanted, because, you know, I started down this road because I wanted an app that I could use. I wasn't in the outset trying to create something anybody but me could use. 15:56.905 --> 15:59.278 And maybe me if I wanted to, right? 15:59.278 --> 16:05.003 Yeah, all right. But the thing is, it— for me, it had to have robust Braille support. 16:05.260 --> 16:05.532 Yeah. 16:05.596 --> 16:16.389 And so when I realized that NVDA just wasn't capable of doing those things— and that's not a slight on NVDA, it's just the reality of where it is. 16:17.062 --> 16:43.805 Well, and I think also, you know, NVDA doesn't necessarily easily allow for keyboard customization. So, you know, you can program a lot of Windows-specific shortcut keys, and you have done that. But when it comes to more specialized things where you want it to announce certain things or move your braille display to certain places on the screen, NVDA doesn't necessarily allow for that kind of tight customization yet. 16:44.206 --> 17:07.065 No. And so that's the reality of it. I didn't set out to make a JAWS-only application. I actually wanted, when I first started considering giving it to people, every screen reader to use it. But that wasn't going to be possible, and especially not to the level that I wanted the app to be for my workflow. 17:07.065 --> 17:15.849 Yeah. And most people who are in the office professional environment, they need to tell their employers, look, I really need JAWS. 17:16.587 --> 17:16.763 Yeah. 17:16.763 --> 17:41.064 Because right now, even though we don't like it, I'll be right up front, I don't always like that I have to use, you know, JAWS. Like, I wish— look, I wish I could use Narrator and NVDA and those resources more often. But right now where we are is that those screen readers aren't quite up to par to make it more efficient for us to do. 17:41.064 --> 17:59.708 Yeah, I agree 100%. And, and I think that that's the, you know, if someone is going to regularly use this app, they're— I mean, I would say an overwhelming number of people who have a need for this app are JAWS users. 17:59.708 --> 18:25.730 And you went through like a lot of time and testing and working through, and it still continues, right? It's, it's not like a one-and-done thing. I download this app, I maybe I preorder it, it's up for preorder now. And then, you know, I've got it, but you continually offer, you know, testing, refining, and even through Harchand Consultancy tech support for the app. 18:25.730 --> 18:34.771 So just to briefly get into that, I have been using Brian's products for a long time. 18:34.836 --> 18:35.259 Yeah, me too. 18:35.324 --> 18:36.105 Years and years. 18:36.219 --> 18:36.268 Yep. 18:37.177 --> 19:05.053 I love Brian's work. In my opinion, just speaking for myself, I think Brian is the best at what he does. He's the best in the field at scripting things and making them fully accessible and workable for those of us who are blind. And in going through this process, I learned to appreciate why Brian insists on tying his products to JAWS. 19:05.053 --> 19:05.502 Mm-hmm. 19:05.502 --> 19:10.326 I understand that in a much deeper way. deeper way than I did before. 19:10.326 --> 19:10.919 Yeah. 19:10.919 --> 19:52.402 Um, but so when I realized I was getting— I wanted people to look at it, I started posting about what I was doing on Mastodon. And one of the reasons, not the only, but one of the reasons was I was hoping that Brian would be interested in testing it for me and telling me what he thought of the app, because I really do admire and respect his professional opinion and his ability. I even told him when he was interested in testing it, you know, that I'm really excited to see what he says. But there's a part of me that's a little nervous too, because I know the high standards that he has. 19:52.402 --> 19:53.507 Right. 19:53.507 --> 20:17.070 And I appreciate why he does. And I benefit every day from using the products of his that I use because he has high standards. You know, that benefits me as a customer. And now as a partner of his on this project, I not only benefit from that, but I need to hold myself and the app to those standards that he's set. 20:17.070 --> 20:17.663 Mhm. 20:17.663 --> 20:48.826 I want people who buy this app from Harchan Consultancy to know and to really feel that they have the same level of access and usability and high standards that they've come You know, we've all grown used to from his products. And so when he wrote back and said, you know, this app is fantastic, I think you should consider selling it. I don't think, you know, it's not my decision, but I don't think you should give it away. 20:48.826 --> 20:51.217 Yeah, a lot of time and resources. 20:51.217 --> 20:51.762 A lot of— 20:51.762 --> 20:52.708 And continue to be. 20:52.708 --> 20:54.601 And, you know, I, I myself— 20:54.601 --> 20:56.093 Late nights and all kinds of things. 20:56.093 --> 21:03.492 I mean, I've, you know, I've probably spent more than a day of my life working on this app. 21:03.492 --> 21:04.439 At least. 21:04.439 --> 21:07.057 And a few hundred dollars already. 21:07.057 --> 21:07.410 Yeah. 21:07.410 --> 21:17.863 And the reality of it is, for me to continue adding features, we already have some really exciting ideas for version 2. 21:17.863 --> 21:18.296 Yes. 21:18.296 --> 21:54.936 And to keep testing them and developing them to ensure they meet those high standards, It costs money and it takes a lot of time. And when Brian, you know, asked if he could work with me on it and volunteered to help me sell the app, that was a big deal because I don't have a web store. I don't know how to sell things, right? And when he said, you know, and I can provide tech support, that really, you know, to me was a clincher because I, just being honest about myself, I'm not sure that would be my strong suit. 21:54.936 --> 21:56.395 Yeah. 21:56.780 --> 21:58.142 And so it is. 21:58.142 --> 22:26.355 And the documentation in the app, it's amazing. And the guides and all of that stuff is coming along. And that takes time to write those, you know, you could tell AI to do it for you. But you're not going to get the same quality, the same personalization of, okay, JAWS is going to do this, or, you know, if this happens, then this is what it's doing, you know, so those kinds of things. you have to really manually do and write, and he's done that. 22:26.355 --> 22:54.189 Yeah, the documentation that he— and that's all Brian. Yeah, like the documentation is all Brian, and it's incredible detailed documentation, exactly what those of us who use Lisi and other products of his have come to count on, really. And thanks to him, Presentable now has that level That's awesome. 22:54.883 --> 23:26.754 So I mean, it's way exciting. I know, you know, that you have gotten— and both of us have gotten kind of in it with all this vibe coding stuff. And, you know, the things that I'm doing are more, you know, I don't know if I would have taken on this level of, you know, because, because images and slides and placements and all of those things are so complex. And so the fact that this is out there and continues to be refined every day— 23:26.754 --> 23:36.938 But I think people, you know, those of us who are vibe coding in the blindness community are largely doing it to meet needs that we have. Yeah. 23:37.484 --> 23:39.665 And that we've had for a long time, like you say. 23:39.665 --> 23:43.386 And I've had this need for well over a decade. 23:43.578 --> 23:43.899 Yeah. 23:44.701 --> 23:53.254 And that was my driving motivation behind doing it. You know, if someone hardly ever uses PowerPoint, they would never develop this. 23:53.254 --> 23:53.720 Right. 23:53.720 --> 24:46.629 You know, and I think that's what makes vibe coding such a fascinating thing for our community is we have the ability now to solve our own digital access barriers in a way that we never could have done without AI. And that's 2 reasons. One is, you know, because AI can do the coding. But for people who want to, the app has advanced features where if you have an OpenAI ChatGPT API key, the app can even provide greater assistance in ensuring the accessibility and the visual presentation of your slides. You can create an entire project and do it very well without an OpenAI key. 24:46.934 --> 24:47.159 Yes. 24:47.897 --> 24:57.655 But there are extra features that really do enhance the process if you want to buy an API key, put it in the app and use it. 24:57.655 --> 25:11.217 And it's all in the app. So you don't have to go out and, okay, I'm going to import this into my own version of, you know, ChatGPT or whatever. It's built into the app. So everything is done within the app itself. 25:11.217 --> 26:06.939 And the app has been customized so that the prompts that are sent with the request, whether it be review this slide or generate me an image or tell me what my alt text should be, the prompts that have been customized within the app really return very high-quality feedback. But it's important for people to know That it's not just like you put in an API key and a text field pops up and you have to type in your entire prompt. The app does a lot of really cool behind-the-scenes stuff to ensure that the response you get from OpenAI gives you all of the information you need to address the issue that you're asking OpenAI to address. 26:07.276 --> 26:09.296 And you use less tokens that way too, right? 26:09.296 --> 26:09.873 You do. Yeah. 26:09.873 --> 26:41.227 So, yeah. Well, I wanted to just take a few minutes now to kind of briefly look at the application because I've been sort of helping with the testing process. I have the application on my desktop right now. And so I just want to do that with you here so that I can go through as I would being a user, not a developer. I didn't develop the app. But in that way, if you have any clarifications or questions as we go through it, you can Do that. So okay, I will. 26:41.740 --> 26:49.290 I will take a back seat unless something unless something you want to be a back seat driver. I'm I'm happy. I'm happy to do that. 26:49.370 --> 26:49.514 Yes. 26:50.075 --> 26:50.331 Okay. 26:50.572 --> 26:56.630 So I'm opening the app now and able new presentation dot dot dot button to activate press spacebar control plus n. 26:57.159 --> 27:21.115 So the first thing I come on is I can create a new presentation, and it told me that there is a shortcut key available for that. You have different modes in here, so you can have. Things customized on what you want announced and all of that. And that's kind of a deeper thing we can go into at some point. But just basically, and if I'm just going to tab around here, here, open presentation button to activate, press spacebar, Ctrl+O. 27:21.533 --> 27:25.045 Import presentation button to activate, press spacebar, Alt+I. 27:25.206 --> 27:31.381 And I can import. So that's where you would go in to import it from an existing PowerPoint. 27:32.328 --> 27:41.534 This is probably beyond the scope, but just so people know, You can import Markdown files. You can import Word files. 27:41.534 --> 27:45.014 Oh, not just PowerPoints that are already done? No. 27:45.158 --> 29:11.789 And the reason you can do that, and we'll probably talk more about this next time, but just so people get a taste of it, if you want, you can, especially using Markdown, largely create a presentation in a text editor and import your Markdown file here. You can do some of that with Word. Because of the limitations of Word and the fact that you can't— obviously we can't customize Word settings. The Word import functions are less robust than the Markdown functions, but you can do that. And I'll be honest, because of my experiences with PowerPoint, when I started doing this, I thought my workflow was going to be write the whole presentation as much as I could in Markdown, import my presentation, let it do the slides, and then I would do the image stuff or whatever else I had to do, check my warnings and errors if I had any in the app. But I knew that not everyone knows Markdown, not everyone's comfortable with it. So right from the outset, I built in the ability to actually create the presentation in the app. What I discovered over, you know, weeks of playing with this thing is that I really like creating the presentation in the app itself. 29:12.030 --> 29:12.110 Yeah. 29:12.191 --> 29:17.633 And so I'm leaving the Markdown there because, uh, people may want it. I may want it. 29:17.745 --> 29:29.976 Well, you may already have, uh, things created that you've done in Markdown, so you can alter those. You can actually now, because of some of the customization you did, is you can add your speaker notes. In the Markdown file. 29:30.120 --> 30:22.149 So we have added some things that don't appear in Markdown, and all of this is explained in Brian's documentation. But I did add some extra commands so that the app knows, for example, that certain blocks of text are to go in the speaker's notes, or that I want this layout of slide type, or this is where I want an image, or If you have the image saved on your computer, you can even put a link to it and the app will put the image in the slide where you want it. So there's a lot of ability with Markdown if somebody wants to do that. It's still there. And with some of the presentations I've already done, I did start those in Markdown. And so I can still use those without having to retype everything. 30:22.342 --> 30:22.550 Yes. 30:23.207 --> 30:27.071 But I really enjoy the original creation inside the app. 30:27.135 --> 30:42.492 Yeah, I did. I did a whole presentation. I actually, for something I vibe coded for work, and I created the whole thing in the app. Yeah. And it was really a pleasant experience. And we'll see that as we show them how easy it is to create slides and things. 30:43.421 --> 30:46.211 New from template dot dot dot button. To activate, press spacebar. 30:46.451 --> 30:57.223 Alt plus Shift. We don't need to get into each of these. I just kind of wanted to tab through and let people know what the options were, but they can be definitely explored. Explained in a deeper context. Yeah, at a later point. 30:57.528 --> 31:00.958 Recent presentations list box. Developing accessible Atlassian app one of two. 31:01.135 --> 31:03.427 That's my my presentation that I created. 31:03.683 --> 31:06.681 Open selected presentation button to activate new presentation dot dot dot. 31:06.745 --> 31:20.034 And then I get back to new presentation. So if I press enter on new presentation, presentation name, presentation name edit. I can just name it testing for LBT learning blind tech. 31:20.291 --> 31:25.965 Save button to activate save presentation created. Add a slide to begin. Add slide dot dot dot button to activate press. 31:26.062 --> 31:31.303 And then you're at your— where you can literally add your very first slide. So if I press Enter here— 31:31.303 --> 31:34.029 Add slide dialog. Slide type. Slide type list box. 31:34.029 --> 31:39.286 You get the type. So this is where you can pick kind of the layout of the slide. You can have a— 31:39.286 --> 31:39.944 Title slide. 31:39.944 --> 31:43.374 Title slide, which is my first slide, so I probably would pick that. 31:43.374 --> 31:44.224 Title and bullets. 31:44.272 --> 31:45.843 2 of 12. Or you have title and bullets. 31:45.843 --> 31:47.366 Text only. 3 of 12. 31:47.366 --> 31:47.991 Text only. 31:47.991 --> 31:48.552 Image only. 31:48.824 --> 31:49.514 4 of 12. Image only. 31:49.514 --> 31:51.902 Image left. Text right. 5 of 12. 31:51.902 --> 32:00.317 Image left. Text right, which is what I use a lot for to put my little picture of something and then Text left, image right. 32:00.621 --> 32:03.136 6 of 12. Large image left, short text right. 7 of 12. 32:03.136 --> 32:08.743 Now you can have a bigger image if you know the measurements of your image and you know it's bigger, you can have that one. 32:08.743 --> 32:12.348 Short text left, large image right. 8 of 12. Table. 9 of 12. 32:12.348 --> 32:13.341 You can do a table. 32:13.341 --> 32:15.103 Title and video. 10 of 12. 32:15.103 --> 32:16.065 Title and video. 32:16.065 --> 32:20.518 Video left, text right. 11 of 12. Text left, video right. 12 of 12. 32:20.518 --> 32:29.169 So there's all of these awesome choices within this layout. And I'm sure, you know, there may even be more added at some point. Who knows? 32:29.690 --> 32:30.370 Title slide. 32:30.370 --> 32:32.570 But for now, it's going to be a title slide. 32:32.570 --> 32:35.990 Slide edit. Testing for LBT. Star present. Table. Slide title edit. Type in text. Alt+L. 32:35.990 --> 32:41.710 And I can just call it the same thing as the LBT. 32:41.710 --> 32:44.380 Layout combo box. Title slide. Content tab selected. 32:44.530 --> 32:45.550 Switch pages. 32:45.550 --> 32:47.410 Prep content items list box. 0 items. 32:47.410 --> 32:50.490 So now, right now it's just a title slide, so I don't really have content. 32:50.490 --> 32:51.670 Add bullet dot dot dot button. 32:51.670 --> 32:57.039 But I could add, you know, if it was a different type of slide, I could add the text, add the bullets. 32:57.119 --> 32:57.937 Edit dot dot dot button. 32:58.241 --> 32:58.433 Edit. 32:58.482 --> 32:59.139 Remove item button. 32:59.299 --> 32:59.956 Remove button. 33:00.245 --> 33:03.483 Move down button. Add link dot dot dot button. Link properties dot dot dot slide. 33:03.547 --> 33:04.797 There's all of these options. 33:05.471 --> 33:10.697 So presentation name edit. Testing for L slides list box. One. Testing for LBT title slide. 33:11.097 --> 33:20.715 So that's my title slide right there. Now if I want to do another new one, add slide dialog. I can do control shift N and just type in my layout. 33:20.779 --> 33:25.252 Maybe I want image image left image text title and bullets text only title and bullets two of twelve. 33:25.316 --> 33:28.650 What would you recommend? Title and bullets or text. I would— 33:28.891 --> 33:42.868 most of the time, if you know PowerPoint presentations, most of the slides are title and bullets unless you're incorporating an image or a video. Most of the time you're going to use title and bullets. 33:42.868 --> 33:43.236 Okay. 33:43.316 --> 33:44.839 Slide added. Testing for LVTS. 33:44.903 --> 33:45.592 So I added that one. 33:45.865 --> 33:46.522 Slide title edit. 33:46.586 --> 33:50.225 And I'll just call it slide 1 or slide— yeah, just slide 1. 33:50.337 --> 33:52.966 Layout combo box. Title and bullets. Content tab selected. 33:53.254 --> 33:57.233 So from here you can You can go into the content. 33:57.409 --> 33:58.581 Speaker notes tab selected. 33:58.758 --> 34:05.726 You get the speaker notes or the content. So if you wanted to add your speaker notes, you could go to that tab and add them. 34:05.999 --> 34:07.653 Content items list box. Zero items. 34:07.701 --> 34:10.783 And there's no items right now because I haven't added a bullet yet. 34:10.960 --> 34:14.781 Add bullet dot dot dot button. To activate, press spacebar. Ctrl+Shift+B. 34:14.990 --> 34:21.123 Okay, so Ctrl+Shift+B. I'll know that next time I can just do that shortcut key to add a bullet. 34:21.493 --> 34:21.994 Type in alt. 34:21.994 --> 34:23.577 And I'm gonna write— 34:23.577 --> 34:25.062 R, W. 34:25.062 --> 34:32.888 A long sentence because, you know, I can be wordy too. And then to save it— 34:32.888 --> 34:35.041 Save button. To activate, press spacebar. 34:35.041 --> 34:36.600 You can tab to save or Alt+S. 34:36.600 --> 34:38.786 Test content item added. Content items list box. 34:38.786 --> 34:51.901 Just as a quick point of clarification, when you save the bullet, you're saving it into the presentation. The presentation itself is not saved. And you haven't saved this yet. 34:51.901 --> 34:52.720 I have not. 34:52.720 --> 34:54.776 So I— if you're gonna really— 34:54.776 --> 34:55.965 Save presentable project dialog. 34:56.013 --> 35:02.791 Yeah, Ctrl+S. Oh, you always— you know what, that would have been really bad if— see, I'm gonna— actually, it already has a title. 35:02.855 --> 35:07.770 It's got the same project saved. List box testing for LBT presentable content items list box. 35:07.834 --> 35:13.600 So now it's been saved. Uh, let's say I want to— I mean, this is so easy to just add bullets. 35:13.761 --> 35:20.169 Text, text edit, type in the List content item added. Content items list box. Content items. 2 of 2. To move to item— 35:20.169 --> 35:24.425 So I have 2 bullets here. And now if I want to just list my slides— 35:24.425 --> 35:26.481 Testing for LBT title slide. 1 of 2. 35:26.481 --> 35:27.798 That's my title slide. 35:27.798 --> 35:32.054 2. Slide 1 title and bullets. 2 of 2. Items list box. Slides list box. 35:32.054 --> 35:36.327 And you see how quickly you can, you can see your slide list and go back and forth. 35:36.327 --> 35:36.584 2. 35:36.825 --> 35:39.812 3. Slide 2 image left. Text right. 1 warning. 3 of 3. 35:39.812 --> 35:45.827 Oh, there's a warning. So So now if I want to check my warnings, what would I, what would I need to do from here? 35:45.827 --> 35:49.354 So from the slide, you can hit Alt+Ctrl+Shift+W. 35:49.354 --> 35:56.199 Checks finished. 1 outstanding results, 0 reviewed. Severity combo box. All. 1 result. 1 of 6. To change the selection, use the arrow keys. 35:56.199 --> 36:00.512 So right now you're in a dialog where you can filter the results. 36:00.512 --> 36:01.041 Okay. 36:01.041 --> 36:10.708 So, you know, you can filter by different things. All is obviously everything. You can filter by errors, which is, this is definitely going to be a violation. 36:10.708 --> 36:12.184 Error. 0. 2 of 6. 36:12.184 --> 36:13.516 You can go down to warning. 36:13.516 --> 36:13.997 Warning 1. 36:14.254 --> 36:15.457 There's my warning. Yeah. 36:15.457 --> 36:19.758 And so now, so we have the one selected. If you tab from here. 36:19.758 --> 36:26.112 Results list box. Warning. Slide 3. Estimated text close to the right edge. 1 of 1. To move to an item, press the arrow keys. 36:26.112 --> 36:32.514 So from here, you can, if you want to find out more about the warning, you can tab to the details button. 36:32.514 --> 36:37.649 Details dialog button. To result details dialog. Report. Report read-only edit. Use your reading keys to read it. 36:37.649 --> 36:40.088 And then it immediately takes you into this report. 36:40.088 --> 36:54.756 Warning. Slide 3. Estimated text close to the right edge. Blank. Content items. 2. At least one estimated line uses 90% or more of the available width. This is a prompt to review the text, not proof that it is cut off. Shorten the line, use a wider text layout, or confirm its fit with Export and Analyze. 36:55.350 --> 37:00.630 So it says it's 90%. I, I would guess one of them might have been more than that. 37:00.790 --> 37:09.792 Yeah, and I think it— I think it's flagging the second bullet. I think it said content item 2, maybe. So if you tab again Okay. 37:09.937 --> 37:12.757 Copy report button. To activate, press spacebar. Alt+O. 37:12.757 --> 37:13.446 Keep going. 37:13.446 --> 37:19.215 Close button. To activate, press spacebar. Testing for LBT. Star present. Table. Go to item button. To activate, press spacebar. 37:19.215 --> 37:22.452 And there's a shortcut key. Yep, F8. So hit the spacebar. 37:22.452 --> 37:30.753 Edit. Testing for LBT. Type in text. Content items list box. 2. Bullet. I like to run on and on and on. 2 of 2. To move to an item, press the arrow keys. 37:30.753 --> 37:56.862 So now if it takes you right to the item it thinks is too long, So a workflow here could be I can either go in right now and shorten this bullet. I can edit it, shorten it, and save it again. Or if this was text where you're like, no, I really like the way I said it, it's 90% or so of the slide, maybe it still looks okay, right? 37:56.862 --> 37:57.295 Mm-hmm. 37:57.295 --> 38:23.491 So you can either export and analyze with PowerPoint, and PowerPoint will the report it generates will then tell you if it's too close to the edge, if it thinks it is. It's not over because if it was over the edge, you'd get an error. But one of the things I like to do is if I have a slide that I really like and I don't want to change it, I use the Review Slide with OpenAI. 38:23.491 --> 38:24.262 Oh. 38:24.262 --> 39:06.724 And it gives you a very detailed report of what's actually happening. Now, in this case, because the bullets are not related to anything and nonsense, Yeah. The report won't have as much valuable information, but it still will tell you, is this slide readable? And that's the key. It will tell you, is the content crowded? Is this, you know, actually hanging over its edge? So if, if you don't have OpenAI and you don't want it, you can export this to PowerPoint and PowerPoint will do the measuring. And it will tell you exactly how much of the slide is left given the length of this bullet. 39:07.943 --> 39:07.991 Or— 39:07.991 --> 39:11.567 Now, will it open it, open PowerPoint? 39:11.567 --> 39:18.158 So the app will create a PowerPoint presentation, which ultimately you'll need to do anyway at the end. 39:18.303 --> 39:18.511 Yes. 39:19.249 --> 40:21.679 But it will create one now based on what you have, and it will analyze all of the slides in your presentation and give you the same errors, warnings, the same 5 categories that generally come up. The 6th category is a review. And so what I want to say is, so let's say I took this slide and I ran it through PowerPoint, and PowerPoint said, you know, it's actually using this percentage of the line and it still fits and we're all fine, right? I could mark this slide as reviewed, and then subsequent checks would not flag it as a warning. And so if you fix— if you say, I like it this way, and PowerPoint says it fits, you can mark it as reviewed and go on to the rest of your presentation, and any accessibility checker you run, whether it be in the app or through PowerPoint, will not flag the issue as a warning any longer. 40:22.675 --> 40:28.874 So can you export and analyze one slide only and not export the whole thing as a presentation? 40:28.874 --> 41:08.515 You can export one slide or you can select 3 or 4 slides and export them. It's a little different in the sense of if you're exporting anything less than the presentation. Like if I export one slide or I select 3 slides and export those, it doesn't actually create a savable presentation on your hard drive. It creates a temporary copy that it then analyzes. The reason that I went with that approach is if I'm analyzing a slide, I don't want like 12 different slides saved on my computer. 41:08.515 --> 41:08.883 Right. 41:08.883 --> 41:58.620 But if I'm exporting and analyzing the entire presentation, at some point I need that as a PowerPoint. So it will actually create the whole presentation. But what you can do is if you create 5 slides and you export and analyze and you fix things, and then you come back to it later and you add 7 more slides, let's say, and you export and analyze again in the Save As dialog, because it will automatically use the file name of the the presentation of the project to create the PowerPoint, right? You can just, if you want, you can click the Yes button and just override the PowerPoint that's already saved. If for some reason you want both versions, just give this new PowerPoint a different file name. 41:58.620 --> 42:30.267 Interesting. So clearly a ton of thought, and there is definitely, you know, some, some learning that would need to be done for someone who is, even if they're experienced using PowerPoint, you know, they need to go through the documentation and really learn how the app works because there's been a lot of thought put in where, you know, if you don't know those features are there, then you won't realize what they do and how to use them. So there's a lot there that people can go and reference. 42:30.267 --> 42:32.046 But there's also help in the app. 42:32.046 --> 42:32.783 Oh yes. 42:32.783 --> 43:04.100 There's a lot of context-sensitive help people can use. If you run the app in what we call guided mode, like we're doing, it will announce the shortcut keys and things as you get used to the app. I'll be honest, I've been using the app long enough that I've already personally switched over to standard mode because I don't want to hear all this all the time. Yeah, but if you want to just start, you don't have to think, God, I have to read 150 pages of help. 43:04.100 --> 43:05.143 Right. 43:05.143 --> 43:21.053 You don't. There's help within the app. There's a lot of context-sensitive help. And so if you encounter something, you're like, oh no, what is this? How do I do— you can go to the help that you need that's related to the task you're doing. 43:21.053 --> 43:30.625 Yeah. And if you're just, you know, just getting started and creating a basic presentation for the first time, you can do it with confidence if it's just titles and bullets. 43:30.625 --> 43:31.224 Yeah. 43:31.224 --> 43:44.164 And pretty much know that what you create is going to be not only accessible for readability for people to read it, but also it's going to look professional and it's going to look good. 43:44.164 --> 45:03.767 One more thing I want to mention because just— well, 2. I'm wordy like we established. You know, there are 2 things I want people to— because this was not only designed to be fully accessible to us, but it was designed to create fully accessible presentations that we could use if we got them in PowerPoint form ourselves. The app has a reading order option. So if you're creating a text with image and bullets, for example, and you want the screen reader to announce the bullets first, you can make it do that. If you want it to announce the image first, you can make the app do that. It'll create it in such a way that the visual layout of the app will be exactly what sighted people expect it to be in PowerPoint. But when the screen reader encounters the slide, the screen reader user, instead of just getting the information as PowerPoint has laid it out on the screen, will hear the information in the order that you want them to hear it. And so that to me is really cool. 45:03.767 --> 45:04.719 Yeah. 45:04.719 --> 45:17.596 The other thing is, and this is just me being, you know, me, the app will not let you export to PowerPoint unless all your images have alt text. 45:17.596 --> 45:22.852 Well, yeah, unless you mark them as decorative, which is an option. Yeah, you do have that option. 45:23.902 --> 45:33.901 honestly forgot that because I don't think I'll ever do it. But it is there if there's a circumstance that people want to mark something as decorative. You can. 45:33.901 --> 45:48.122 Sometimes you have to if you're using like company logos or their templates, I guess. Yeah, you'd have to create your own reusable slide that's based on your company template, and they would have a lot of decorative eye candy and some watermarks. 45:48.122 --> 45:56.926 And so, but anyway, the app will not let you create a presentation Unless there's alt text or the image is marked as decorative. 45:56.926 --> 47:02.691 Well, there is so much even, you know, for me to play with and learn. And I think as you need different features, you know, you may do a presentation where you really want to put links or videos or different things in, and you have the ability to learn how to do that as you need it. And that's the beauty of it too. Well, thank you so much, and thanks for all your hard work on this. I mean, I know personally just from witnessing all the work that's been going in, Always hearing that test this, test that, pass this. Nope, that doesn't pass. Do it again. And and having done my own sort of vibe coding and understand the testing, that that is a big part of it. It is to make sure that whatever feature you have it code works with your setup. And you've done a lot of that work already for for people so that the app works and is responsive. So it's really awesome. So thank you for coming on today, and I really appreciate it, and I look forward to using the app more and, um, you know, all of the new features that'll be coming, uh, for it and, and all of that. 47:02.691 --> 47:07.170 Well, thank you for having me, and, uh, I will be back for the next episode. 47:07.170 --> 48:09.318 Yes, absolutely. Sounds good. All right, so hopefully everyone enjoyed that. I know I enjoyed doing it as well as getting to know PresentABLE a little better, and I have actually created a full presentation for work using PresentABLE, and I am getting ready this coming week to present that to my team, my manager, and possibly some other teams within Pearson. So I'm very excited about that, and I was able to put images and videos and all kinds of great stuff in my presentation. And I'm very confident that it is accessible and readable and all of that. So I am so thankful for this new application, and I'm excited to see what it will be in the future. And so stay tuned to Hartchen Consultancy for all of the updates and all of that good information about PresentABLE. I thank you for joining me today on Learning Blind Tech, and I look forward to seeing everyone on Next episode. 48:09.787 --> 48:21.745 Eyes closed, we're seeing, hearts beating, believing together, we're achieving, no hurdles deceiving. Tears are raised, reading all the knowledge we're feeding, laughing while reading this tech quest succeeding.