Intro: I'm Stephen Jondrew from Better Podcasting, a podcast about podcasting, part of the Gunna Geek Network. Just like the show you're checking out now, shows on the network are individually owned and opinions expressed may not reflect others find fantastic geeky shows@Gunageeknetwork.com.
Chris Osborne: And welcome to Play comics, where once again we are here looking at a video game based on a comic property and how well it represents that source material. And this time I am super excited because I'm finally getting Doug Wood on to talk about a video game. And I've been waiting for a long time to get this to happen. And we're going to be in for a treat now because not only do we have Doug, we also are taking a look at ultimate muscle legends versus new generation. Doug, how are you doing today?
Doug Wood: I'm doing great. Thank you for putting up with me and having me on. I really appreciate it.
Chris Osborne: At the end of the episode, we're probably going to say thank you for putting up with me because my muscle knowledge is very, very limited.
Doug Wood: That's okay. I am not like an expert, but I am a fan.
Chris Osborne: And just based on that, you are inherently going to know more than me. But I want to take a look real quick here. What got you into muscle and made you jump on wanting to talk about this game here on the show?
Doug Wood: Oh, yeah. So my first, I remember as a kid in the making the toy aisle seeing the little muscle figures and thinking, whoa, what are those? But at the time, I wasn't really into, like, wrestling, so I just kind of like passed it off. But they did stick out my mind because they were very unique, like poise, I felt like. And then what got me into muscle was I just remember flipping on, like, kids Saturday cartoons and here comes guys that look like wrestlers, like the nwo, like stable, and it's like, oh, what is going on here? And they're all doing this wacky stuff and it's comedy. And I had to rush out. We got the video game rented from the rental store and I was, I was in. Me and my little brother were just like, hooked on that game for a while.
Chris Osborne: So had you had any experience with the manga that this is all based on, or was it just straight up the anime for you?
Doug Wood: So the manga came in a little bit later because I didn't know how to get any manga for a long time. Where I grew up, I didn't get to go to the comic book stores. I didn't know where manga would be purchased, even if I could sometimes I would find comic books in grocery stores, so manga was never even around. So that took a lot longer. When I started going to college, I think that's when I finally, oh, hey, there's manga. And I started being able to find, like, some older ultimate muscle, older shonen jump stuff to, like, find out about. I went back and I seeked out ultimate muscle. And some of the other stuff that I really loved is as a teenager. So I. There is, there is a version of ultimate muscle before that. There was, like, one from the seventies. I've never found that, like, in America. So I'm always wondering what that's like.
Chris Osborne: That would be really interesting to get our hands on because I really like reading the old american comics like that. I haven't read anything manga that old ever. At least not that I'm aware of.
Doug Wood: There is one really older manga I read, and I loved it. It's in just a gigantic poem that think seven seas put out. It's gorgeous, though.
Chris Osborne: What is it you think about wrestling stuff like this that just perfectly draws in a comics crowd?
Doug Wood: Oh, that's a good question. I know the action. A lot of people compare it to superheroes, like getting to watch them in real life. Wrestling is people have heroes versus villains, like, you know, like comics. And, like, superheroes, the power levels kind of dip and change over time. You can watch rise and fall of people as it goes along. So that's always very interesting for people, it being fake. People want to know what that's like as a real thing. So they love trying to make that in comics form. Like, what if it was real? So you'll see that so much. And. Yeah, I think that's, that's the biggest thing.
Chris Osborne: I think the characters with ultimate muscle especially, are a huge draw. You know, you've got your legacy characters like Kid Bustle, but then you have some just really, really weird characters like Dick. Dick Van Dyck, who thinks that he can be a deer and is the only kind of dick pic you should send people completely unsolicitedly.
Doug Wood: Yeah, yeah. In the manga, I just, he is just so, like, full of himself, which is really interesting. And when you first meet him, he's like kind of the ace of the class that Kim muscles in. So, yeah, the characters and the villains that you meet in the manga are just so unique because it's like, who are these shadowy guys over there? And all of a sudden, they throw off their fake costumes and it's like these guys are completely different shapes. Where did he, where were these? How did those characters become these other characters. But it's, it's all like goofy fun.
Chris Osborne: From what you can remember. What is the main overarching plot of the ultimate muscle anime? And, you know, like, what's really going to draw me into it?
Doug Wood: Yeah, the anime. A little bit less confident on the manga because I've seen it more recently. I mean, read more recently. It's like, it starts off with the old timers see that the bad guys are come back. They've called themselves the DMP, which is very nwo kind of guys. They're alien. They're aliens. The old guard are all superheroes. They even call themselves superheroes. And they try to challenge these, these younger guard of aliens and they find themselves lacking. So they say, oh, we need to train up our, our new generation. And they put them through the ringer and they send them to different parts of Tokyo to try to keep it protected. And so the new generation tries to fight these DMP monsters. That's an arc. And then it goes on to another arc where, like, these guys succeeded and. But they got lazy because, oh, we're so successful. Who cares? We're not gonna train anymore. And so then they graduated another class because it's like, get these guys out of Tokyo. I mean, get these guys out of Japan. It's, it's over. So then it goes on from there. It's just constant who's the next? And another overarching, from what I remember is Kevin Mask. He comes in as kind of a kind of mysterious character. Like, he starts off kind of villainous and then he's like, he sees how villains, the villains are. He's like, I don't want to be a part of this, but he's always, like, on the periphery. He's. He seems more powerful than everybody, yet he doesn't get in the ring at the time to kind of show it off. So you're always, like, left wondering where his power level's at.
Chris Osborne: See, now I'm just feeling really dumb for never having watched it when I was little because I probably would have been all over this.
Doug Wood: Like I said, it was easy for me because I see around 98, I think I didn't have anything to do with wrestling, but just some friends. They're like, are you watching this? And it's like, no. They're like, you should watch it. And I just remember, like, it clicked right away, which is crazy because I had no interest. And then just seeing that and then seeing the cartoon, that was so much of what I was already watching. It's like, oh, I'm in.
Chris Osborne: And from my understanding of looking at stuff about the show, it's not one where you needed to know what was going on in any of the older formed, either. You know, just jump right in here, and you'd be fine.
Doug Wood: Yeah, they do a really good job, kind of. There's this, like, past. Something's happened, but it's not super integral to. It's a nice, clean breaking point that, you know, that, hey, this world's bigger than what, you know, you're seeing on here.
Chris Osborne: One day, I'm gonna have to sit myself down somehow try to force my wife to watch this because she's not a huge fan of fighting things like this. But I get the idea that it's gonna be silly enough that I can convince her to stick around and keep watching it.
Doug Wood: Yeah. Is she okay with a little bit of fart humor? Because that's a lot. They would play a lot of fart humor. I think.
Chris Osborne: It's not her favorite thing, and she'll make fun of me for liking it.
Doug Wood: Yeah.
Chris Osborne: But it'll be fine.
Doug Wood: Okay. I am not a big fan of Bart humor, but I feel like there's more. More there than just, like, there is, definitely. Oh, he's in it for the girls. He's farting a lot, you know, that kind of thing. He's. He can play a coward, even though he's, like, the strongest character there is. But I don't know, just the package overall. I just. I like it. I like the action and even the things that would be off putting for me usually. I'm still interested in having fun with it.
Chris Osborne: So, with all that said, I'm going to drop some promos for a few other things, and then we'll come back and talk about the game.
Promos: Hello, this is Lafayette, and I'm Carlos from nerds talking the podcast. That's right. Where we talk about everything from UFO, UFO's, yep. Comic books, movies, streaming services, conspiracy theories, ghosts, video games, and more. Kick ass all on nerds talking the podcast. You can find us every Friday with new episodes on all digital platforms where you find your favorite podcast. Nerds talking the podcast.
Intro: What is up, everybody? Patrick Hickey Junior here, editor in chief and owner of Legacy Comics, tune into our weekly podcast, talking comics, where we discuss the entire comic book industry, what's going on here at Legacy comics, and so much more.
Chris Osborne: Ooh, yeah. That was some great stuff to check out. But first, let's finish up here. Doug, I don't know where to start with this one, because ultimate muscle is just looking like the ultimate. I don't have to know anything about what's going on game. It's gonna be fun no matter what. And knowing what's going on is just going to make everything better.
Doug Wood: I really think it's that kind of fun party or friend game where you can sit it in front of somebody and they're like, I don't know what the controls are, but if you push some buttons, something funny is gonna happen, something random is gonna happen. The characters moves are fairly basic and everything kind of flows together. I thought when I was playing it, and I just thought it was made for a fun party and friend game.
Chris Osborne: I'm a person who loves fighting games anyway. I know wrestling games tend to usually be a little bit different because you're not usually just wearing down somebody's health bar, but they did make this one like a fighting game instead of like a wrestling game for the most part. Whatever. I have no problem with that.
Doug Wood: Yeah, I think. I think some. There's a lot of crossover, I think, from wrestling fans and fighting game fans. So I don't think anybody really hated that as far as I remembered. But it could be in my own little unique world, maybe.
Chris Osborne: Ultimate muscle Legends versus new generation was released in June of 2003. This one was only released on the GameCube developed by Aki Corporation. Published by Bandai. Aki. They had a little bit of knowledge about fighting games and wrestling games. I mean, they'd made a bunch of the WrestleMania games and WCW NWO games, went on to make other games after this, like Def Jam Vendetta. They kind of knew what they were doing.
Doug Wood: Yeah, wrestling fans, wrestling video game fans still really latch onto that, I think. Aki Engine. Aki Engine. People really love that. They love. Was it no mercy in that engine too, man, they did. Those are some of the classics that people just always come back to and say those are the favorite games. They can try to find a way to mod it, play it today. They'll still try to do it. It's just that was everything everybody loved.
Chris Osborne: This is the first game from them we're looking at here on the show. Bandai. We've seen a bunch of stuff from a lot of it is end up in Dragon Ball based. There was the other game and a bunch of stuff that, you know, doesn't really stand out too much. But Bandai makes pretty solid games overall. So, you know, you're getting a pretty good time when you see their name on the label like that. And one thing I really appreciated here is that they had a plot for the game that actually mattered. Like you were telling us before, it's a lot of that same anime plot of evil villains coming back and old wrestlers being old and needing to get new wrestlers coming in to help with the fighting. But it also gives everybody a reason to fight anybody else in the game. And, you know, normally I'm happy that there's just kind of a hand wavy reason for it to happen. This is an actual, real reason that actually matters.
Doug Wood: It helps with making a more in depth roster because I think they're only pulling for maybe one or two arcs from the manga and maybe the show itself too. I can't remember how the seasons go on that, but, yeah, being able to put in the older generation wrestlers really helps out. Like, filling out a roster that you can have fun with.
Chris Osborne: Speaking of the roster, too, you've got 20 different wrestlers in here that are actually from ultimate muscle. And I can't tell you for myself if they're missing anybody not that important or a fan favorite or anything, but everybody who's in this, I think, is just such a great character.
Doug Wood: Yeah. I'm trying to think of who would be, um. Got Kevin. They had his dad, they had Robin. Oh, man. Um, I'm having trouble thinking of somebody that would be really good that they're missing out on. I think the second arc of the manga where they have, like, there's like. But this probably didn't fall under this part of the show, but they have, like, a stop sign character. I can't think what his name is, but he's like. He has, like, a unique power. Like, if he throws up his sign, like, turn, turn left, you're forced to turn left. If he throws up his leg and you go underneath the. Underneath the leg, like a crossing, because you duck it, then, like, a train track comes out, you're like. You're hypnotized thinking you're seeing a train that's really, like a sign coming out to hit you in the head. So there's like, they just go, like, wild and weird stuff. And maybe some. One of those characters would have been really fun to have, I guess, the villains.
Chris Osborne: Oh, that's so cool sounding. I would hate to play against it, but still.
Doug Wood: Um, they have. They have one of the characters from the. That arc, which is, um. Scar. Is that how you say his name? I think it's different in the manga, but, yeah, they have, um. Yeah, he's definitely in that because he's. He was like Scar. Scarface, even. Scarface. Yeah. Because he starts off as a different character. Like he has like this, like melting face going on and then he breaks apart and crumbles and then like, you find out that he's really this character instead. Everything is a russian nesting doll in the show. You think you're getting one thing and then you get something else.
Chris Osborne: Looking at the story of the game, that super basic plot is basically going to be what carries you throughout the entire thing. They have different modes where you're playing story modes for the character and just a series of, okay, some one on one fights and then some tag team fights and flipping back and forth between there, doing that to unlock other characters, doing that to collect little muscle trophies that look like the toys.
Doug Wood: I think I remember having a blast with the tag team stuff.
Chris Osborne: My brother and I, if we had had other people to play with besides just us two, us with the tag team would have been one of our favorites.
Doug Wood: Yeah, I think that's what ended up having me and my brother. He. We love to play together and tag up or tag against each other and just. I don't know, it's a lot of fun times.
Chris Osborne: There's just something nice here in these simple games that are taking what is essentially a really simple premise of a manga. And here's the fun parts. Just play the fun parts. It's fun. That's what the manga is. That's what we're going to give you in a game. We know that all you really want to do with these characters is fight anyway. So let's not even waste time trying to get anything else in there. Here's the fighting. Go fight.
Doug Wood: Yeah, I love that. I love. You can just start up and fight. That's what you want to do. You're going to go get, do it. Figure it out as you're playing. You don't know what buttons are. What buttons? Here it is. Go figure it out. And that's kind of some of the fun I had back in the day.
Chris Osborne: I do want to say, just in case any tries to call us out on it, that there were a set of create a character options and you can make some other characters and they came from a create a character contest that they over in Japan. We're not gonna worry about them because they weren't in the manga.
Doug Wood: Oh, well, I will say this about the manga is a lot of the villains came from contests. So I didn't know, I didn't remember that about the game itself. But I think a lot of the villains were like contest things that they let give a description for what he wanted. And he grew up based on their ideas. Like, there's a ice kind of like a squid type of thing called Hydrozoa Man, I think, in this, in the second arc. And, yeah, that, like, somebody suggested that, and he drew up some, like, crazy design.
Chris Osborne: Oh, that just sounds amazing. If you're wanting to look at characters that were in the original muscle game. Yes. You have Ramen Mandev, Robin Mask, Terry Mann, and Wars man coming back with their full name and everything. You also have muscle man coming back, but here at this point in the lore, he is better known as King Muscle.
Doug Wood: Yeah. So, yeah, there's some really Robin Mask and then Kevin Mask, the son. Yeah, King muscle and then kid muscle, the father and son. Yeah. There's a lot of generation stuff that I love from the end, like Terry Mask being kind of like a mix between wrestlers, like Terry funk, and kind of like a little bit of dusty rhodes, too. So you get some real world wrestling kind of mixed in there, too.
Chris Osborne: How much in wrestling do you have legacy characters like this because they're all over comics?
Doug Wood: Oh, yeah, definitely. Well, the most famous one, of course, is the rock. He's a third generation because his dad, his grandfather, even his grandmother was a promoter, current champion for WWE. His dad was a champion. His brother was a wrestler. And so you just get, like, sometimes you get those kind of dynasty wrestling stuff, which is kind of fun and unique.
Chris Osborne: I think this is really, really wrapping up for me, super solidifying the fact that I need to go back and check out muscle. But what is it about the muscle franchise that this game really gets right?
Doug Wood: Just really how fun it is. Like, there's the energy in the action as you're playing, and there's unique moves that you can't see in real life that's fun to see and just kind of bizarre characters. You're like, what? What is that? It's like a chess board, but his name is Sunshine. Oh, and there's another guy that's, like, got chess pieces on his shoulder pads. What's going on there? And they all have unique skill sets, and it's fun to try to figure out and figure out how the hero has to overcome them. So I don't know. That's odd stuff. I love to watch. And part of the gameplay that I really like.
Chris Osborne: What is it about muscle that this game gets wrong?
Doug Wood: Oh, that's a good question. It's been a while. Was there blood? Because in the manga, man, there's so many bloody death matches in the beginning that I don't recall if they do in the game or not, and I feel like that's a little bit of a missed opportunity if they don't.
Chris Osborne: I have to think, though, since this was based specifically on the, like, fox box. Keep wanting to call it kids WB, but I know it's not what it is, but, like, their translation of it, they probably cleaned any blood out because they're just horrible. No. Fun loving people.
Doug Wood: Yeah. Yeah.
Chris Osborne: If you knew somebody who wanted to get into muscle, would you give them this game as a bit of a primer course?
Doug Wood: For fun, yes. But for the story, I think the manga or cartoon does a lot to, like, inspire you to want to love it. Oh, man, that's a toss up. Yeah, it just depends on their personality type, I guess.
Chris Osborne: I'm a little bit torn on this one myself because I don't think it's gonna do anything to hurt somebody liking it, but I don't think it's gonna help them like it. Just be silly. Watch the anime.
Doug Wood: Yeah. If they ever reprint the manga for us, that will be another thing that definitely would shove that in people's hands.
Chris Osborne: And finally, if you could take any muppet and just have everybody in the entire world pretend that they've been in muscle the whole time, who would you want to see step into the ring?
Doug Wood: Do you have an answer? Really? I'm really struggling with that one.
Chris Osborne: I would want to see sweetums. I really think that he would be up there trying not to hurt whoever he was fighting against and just take a little bit of a beating, and then somebody would hurt a bird or something that was flying by and that would set him off.
Doug Wood: Bad comedy. Would it be like a Fauzi the bear word?
Chris Osborne: It could be fun trying to distract him with his jokes.
Doug Wood: Yeah. Just because it already has some kind of lame joke elements that are, you know, you know, they're supposed to be lame, but they're also kind of like, they're playing on that, like they're hanging the hat on it, and I feel like he would kind of spit in the universe pretty well.
Chris Osborne: Doug, it has been great talking to you about all of this. If people want to hear more from you, where else can they find you? Around the Internet.
Doug Wood: I am on Twitcher or X. That's Dougawood one. I'm also doing a newsletters. Yep, yep, yep. What is that? Um, yeah, find me. Find it on my Twitter account. I don't know.
Chris Osborne: Somehow we just can't leave Twitter because that's where the audience keeps being and we're both cursed by that.
Doug Wood: Yeah, I. When I. So I got sick and I. And I left. I left the site. And when I decided to try to come back, I went to try the alternatives and nobody could find me. So I was forced to come back to Twitter, too.
Chris Osborne: Maybe we can get some wrestlers, come down and fight people who make Twitter bad and have them make Twitter good. I don't know. There's no hope with Twitter. It's too far gone. Despite what I just said, or maybe because of what I just said, I'm not sure how that would go. Right now, the best place to find me is playcomics.com, where there's links to all the social media things, including Twitter, because Twitter still exists and I can't tear myself away from it. It's like I'm living in a constant dumpster fire, and I just can't leave because I like being in a dumpster fire. At least it's a dumpster fire that I know, rather than a completely new dumpster fire. And now I'm done talking about dumpster fires. If listening to all of this made you want to come on the show, then head on over to playcomics.com as well. There's going to be a link down in the show notes that'll take you directly to the page where I have the list of games that I am looking to get booked to the soonest included. There is also a form to fill out. You don't have to fill it out, but it does have all the questions I'm going to ask you about anyway. So it's just really easy to fill it out because then you don't have to think about what I would want to ask you. And, I mean, let's be real. Even people that I've had on the show like eight times, fill the form out. So, you know, whatever. Do it, don't, whatever. But the list is there. That's the important part. If you want to help support the show, then you can be like, oh, no, lit class or Dan McMahon or Carl Antonovitz and give the show money. But really, more importantly than that, just leave some reviews on Apple Podcasts or podchaser or take the show and shove it into your friends ear holes with consent, because having things shoved into your ear holes without consent is just really gross. And I don't want to encourage people to do that because that's gross. Speaking of things that are gross, the opposite of Gross is the Gonadgeek.com network, where play comics is a member of all those shows are grossly amazing if you're using gross as a term of a huge amount. So yeah, that didn't work very well. But I'm gonna leave it in here because I just kind of think it's a little bit funny. Theres tons of other wonderful geeky shows in there though, so you should go check them out. Theyre all just a treat. If you like the music that im rudely talking on top of right now, head on over to Soundcloud.com. best day to check out bestdays music. But most of all, just grab a game, grab a stack of comics and go find yourself a new favorite character and you have disappeared. The last thing I heard was, oh, hey, there's manga. Oh, no. Doug is gone forever. Probably not forever, but I cannot hear him anymore.
Doug Wood: Is he still there? Uh oh. Oh, that's weird. It says audio encoding not functioning. Why did it stop? What? Why did it stop? All of you froze. Oh, no. Is my Internet okay? No, there, you're still here.