If you find yourself energized by crowds more than coffee, you might be an extrovert. Ever started a conversation in line at a grocery store and left with three new friends? You might be an extrovert. And if you thought of a quiet evening at home makes you reach for your phone to plan the next get together, then, folks, you might be an extra of heart. Join us as we dive into the lively world of extroverts, where every moment is an opportunity for connection and silence is just a pause between stories. So gather round, all you social butterflies. It's time to spread those wings and chat. I'm Curtis, and the guy talking on his phone and responding to text messages right now is my pal Joe, and we are dudes in progress. Hey, Joe.
Hello, Kirk. Sitting there all by yourself. Glad you're sitting there all by yourself.
I'm glad to be talking to you again this fine Friday morning. And, hey, you picked on me a little bit on our introvert conversation, so it's only right that I pick on you as an extrovert.
Yeah, I think I definitely lean there, but we all have tendencies of both, so I am a little more gregarious in social situations.
We were talking about that we might be somewhere in the middle, and I found a term to describe that person in the middle, which we'll talk about at the end. I was so excited to see that. It's actually a thing.
Yeah. Awesome, man. Good morning. Good Friday morning to you. Kurt, as well. Happy to be here. You can't see our video right now, but you can tell who's working from home today and who's heading into the office.
Our outfits.
I'm sitting here with a black logo, polo on, fresh faced hair combed. Kurt sitting there with his kiss t shirt. Haven't shaved in three days.
Rock and roll all night.
Looks like you might have. Looks like he either combed your hair or the headphones is holding it down.
I just splash some water on my face and hair. I'm ready to rock and roll.
Yeah, I do like these Friday morning sessions. I know. We. We've been recording both on Friday mornings and on Tuesday evenings in preparation for my vacation coming up. I'll be gone for a few weeks. It's a two week vacation, but as we look at the schedule, we need to plan for three weeks, I think three or four weeks. So we're trying to get ahead of ourselves, but no less. It's a. It's good to be here Friday morning.
Excited for your vacation? We'll have to talk about that when you get back, or even before you leave, maybe Tuesday or. We've talked about doing a show about vacations.
Yeah, maybe we'll cover that. Important that when we get back to the first show back, it'll be an easy one.
Joe, in the spirit of Jeff Foxworthy, the comedian, you might be a redneck.
I might.
I found some points that might suggest you're an extrovert. See if this fits you. Do you love to talk, Joe?
I do. Love is maybe a hard, harsh term or maybe a little too too much. But I do like to talk. I do. To make sure that I'm heard sometimes. Yeah.
Are you inspired by socializing?
Now, this is an interesting one, Kurt, and I'd like to hear your answer to this as well. Are you inspired by socializing? I like to socialize. I have no problem socializing. I can work a room, and I can understand the dynamics of a room, but, boy, there are sometimes. I do not look forward to the process.
Oh, really? I didn't know that. Okay.
Yeah.
Again, we might be somewhere in the middle. Yeah. I do enjoy socializing, too. Again, once I get past that awkwardness of strangers, I'm just fine. I enjoy it. Matter of fact, I've always been, like, the first one to the party and last one to leave. So that's why I wonder, where do I fit in this spectrum? Introverts and extroverts. You discuss your problems, Joe, to other people.
I have a small group of people that I'm willing to discuss my problems with, and I will. I'm not. I'm not terribly overt about deep problems. Now, generally, there are some surface issues that I'm happy to discuss that could be considered problems, but I would say I lean towards. Yeah, I do.
I think so, too. More so than I would. That one's a little more awkward for.
Me, and I'm okay with it. Here's the difference between here. I'm. I have no problem. Like living out loud, I have no problem with. Because we all have the same problems. Really. Any problem that I'm talking about, you probably have.
Right.
I'm just saying it out loud.
I think we're both pretty much. That's true. I don't have a problem. We share a lot of pretty close, intimate feelings here in this medium.
Yeah. Sometimes I'll listen back and I'll think I've said that.
Tone that down a bit. That's what my wife says when she listens about me. You're friendly and approachable, Joe. I think so.
Yeah, I am. Definitely. I have no problem with that.
And the last point is you're open, like we just said.
Yeah. How would you answer? Friendly and approachable as a first. As a first reaction, as a first impression? Do you think people see you as friendly and approachable? Let's. We're not allowed to mention Disney here. Let's go outside of Disney, because you've worked that a lot, right?
Yeah.
Outside in a social. In a. Let's say you're showing up at company picnic or something that you've been invited to, that you don't know the people. Would you say that you are friendly and approachable in those scenarios?
No. Again, it's awkward for me in a bunch of strangers, but once I. Again, once I'm in a comfortable spot, then I am.
Yeah.
At work and working situation. I'm very much gregarious, and matter of fact, the last time I went into the office, I couldn't shut up. I was all over the place talking with people and having fun. So, yeah, that's where I'm in the middle on that.
Yeah.
I'm happy when I'm with a bunch of strangers to just stay to myself.
I think about this, especially over these last two episodes, and we're only a few minutes into this one, but I knew this was coming up. I definitely have attributes of both Kurt and I know we're going to talk about what that term is, and I don't want to steal your thunder, but I definitely have attributes of both. But if I had to lean, if I had to lean one way or another, probably. I probably lean extrovert. But, man, my introvert tendencies are strong. Like, the ones that I have, they're strong. Like, when I want to be by myself, I'm going to be by myself, and there's nobody breaking that. Right.
Good. I think we. I would lean the other way, I think is my first reaction. But for sure, I can, and I push myself to, especially when I'm in my community, that I want to be that person. I want to be that leader. I want to be that person that's introducing others and also, obviously, being approachable. I love people walking up to me and saying, hey, are you kurt? I absolutely love that.
That's cool.
I get a real. I get a lot of fun out of that. Or they'll say things to me from my podcast, things that I've said on my podcast, and it'll just come out of a conversation and they'll just slip it in because they kind of know me right from my podcast, and things that I like. I just had Tony Ann Zarcon, which we've had on the show this morning, posted a video, and she was down in Florida. She lives in Florida. And there's this really famous grocery store called Publix that has great sandwiches and subs. You know what I'm talking about?
Sure. Publix is not local here in Cincinnati, but they're all over the place in Florida.
We go on vacation, and then she said, I got to show you this. She's in the parking lot, and she just notices. She's just close to where her house is, a mile or two from her house. And she moves the pans, the camera over, and there's a Jersey Mike's sub shop right next door connected to the same building, because she knows whenever I leave Orlando, at the airport, I always get a jersey Mike sub. That was the first place I ever saw Jersey Mike's. Now, we have one in town here. But I love my sub sandwiches. And it was just interesting that she posted a video this morning about that. And I love that kind of stuff.
All right, talking about sub sandwiches, I have a very. And I won't go into it now. Maybe I'll water drop it and I'll talk about it. But I have a very specific sandwich, a very specific subway that I get at subway. Sub sandwich that I get at subway. And it's very specific. And I have to walk them through the instructions on how to make it each and every time. And they just cannot believe that I'm doing this. But I'll just leave that for another discussion.
All right, that's. Well, that's one of the popularities of subway. They're first ones to do that. Make your own sub the way you want it. Challenges of being an extrovert, kind of following similar structure, we went on our introvert conversation, overstimulation. Extroverts thrive on social interaction, but there could be a point where it becomes too much, leading to overstimulation and exhaustion. Would that describe you, Joe? Do you overstimulated?
Exhaustion is a good term.
Yeah, I thought so, too.
Exhaustion is a good term. Sometimes it does take a lot of energy out of you, even though you want to do it, even though you desire to, uh, be in a social situation, it can't. The overstimulation can be exhausting. And it's interesting because if this is the challenge of being an extrovert, extroverts typically get their energy from social situations, but it can be exhausting, mentally exhausting, I guess you would say. I don't know how to make that balance, but I know what this means.
Yeah. Extroverts can be misunderstood as attention seeking or not serious. And this can lead to misunderstandings in both personal and professional relationships. You find that to be true?
I think so. I think that when you see somebody that is just over the top, gregarious, over the top, extroverted, you do think that what else can that just, can that guy Tony down crave any more attention or crave any more attaboys or if they have a sense of humor? Sometimes a sense of humor can be an extroverts coping mechanism and use that to dilute maybe a serious situation or to take a situation that could be stressful and take the edge off a little bit. And sometimes introverts can misconstrue that as just being silly is not taking a situation serious when it's just the opposite. You're taking the situation serious and you understand that the situation is very charged, that, hey, listen, in anything for, in order to accomplish anything in this situation, we need to take the edge off a little bit. So you might make a quirky or smart elect comment just to crack a smile out of a few people, just to take the edge off of it. So there's a genius to that.
Interesting you say that, because, again, I will do that in a business setting. People are getting really serious about things like, let's just we. When I first started working out of college, I worked in a customer service group where I met my wife. And just a great group of people became long term relationships with, and we were looked down. We were always goofing off. We worked in a very stressful department. Dealing with customers.
Sure.
And all the kinds of problems that we dealt with on a regular basis. And we were always doing shenanigans to break the tension.
Yeah. I have a colleague, actually, this person is now my boss, but we work together closely, and she is really good at communicating something serious, but not taking herself too seriously. And you'll come in and there'll be some weird note on your desk, don't eat the yellow snow or tip of the day, something like that. Just something weird. Or she'll come in and rearrange your desk, put everything backwards or something like that. And you know who did it. And you realize, my boss just did this, but she does it because, you know, it lightens the situation. It lightens the load a bit.
Yeah, I think it's definitely a good thing. You're risk takers, Joe, but your risk taking can lead to negative consequences.
Boy, is this true. Boy, is this true. I am very much ready firing.
You said that yesterday when we were doing our coaching session.
Yeah, I'm very much ready firing. I just want to get out there and see what happens.
Yeah, just.
Let's just see what happens. Right?
Yeah.
But there are. It's interesting. I do have a. I do have an aversion to risk if. If I feel it's going to dramatically affect my family.
Sure.
It's there. There is. There is a balance there. But I'm at work. I'm very much ready firing.
You have a hard time dealing with introverts, connecting with them?
I don't know.
Do you understand them? I think you're fine there.
Yeah, I think I do. I think I connect with introverts, and I think it's because I do. I definitely have some introverted tendencies, but also I've learned to be quiet in meetings. I've learned that the. Usually the people who are just listening sit back and listen and talk last, have something very important to say. So I've learned that in a meeting, I'm not one to talk the whole time. I tend to just sit back and listen. I don't necessarily need to be heard speaking.
The workplace dynamics. You struggle with tasks that require long periods of solitary focus. Rather be collaborative.
I am. I'm definitely collaborative. And I seek out the opinions of other people a lot because I think there is genius. And we know this from the mastermind concept. There's genius when you're, when you pull from many sources. But my extroverted tendencies help me with that. I have no problem asking the opinion on the same subject, the opinion of the president of the company, and I'll go to somebody on the shop floor. Right. And ask them. Not that there's necessarily a. There's a hierarchy there that, let's not be silly and not recognize that there's a hierarchy in the organization. And that's what I'm trying to communicate, that I will go to both hierarchies, not saying that one is necessarily any better than the other, but, yeah, I. I do seek out opinions of others, thoughts of others, ideas from others. And that's an interesting concept because I want to feel like I'm doing it because of the. I want to gather as much genius, but there's a part of me that does it because I don't want to be the only one to be wrong if it goes south.
Brilliant. You're.
I got input from the president. My gosh.
That's right. Boredom and restlessness is challenging. Extroverts may experience boredom and restlessness when they do not have enough social interaction or new experiences. I think you get bored fast, don't you, Joe?
I get distracted fast now, is it because I'm bored? I'm not sure, but I get distracted fast. There may be another condition there, but I certainly get distracted fast. I'm definitely restless. Unless I'm really engaged in something, I can hyper focus or if I'm watching a movie. I don't get bored in a movie. I, even some of the slower moving movies, I'm right there the whole time. But yeah, I'll get up many times and text somebody or call somebody or if I'm, if I am at work, I get, I come out of my office many times during the day and just to get a breather.
I do that a lot, too. I can't even imagine. Introvert. I see a lot of people. The scene is just sit on that desk and never move the whole 8 hours. I don't know how they do it. I can't. I got to get up and stretch my legs. I like to get some steps in. And we talked about, both of us are like that. This is the one that annoys me about you extroverts, Joe. You're really open about your feelings. You're all of, everything's emotional.
Yeah.
And yeah, you might seem too emotional to me. You just fly off the cuff, Joe.
Uh, I am. I have no problem with, like I said before, living out loud. Uh, if I'm irritated, if I'm sad, and I think there's power in that man. And here's the reason. This is where extroverts are so relatable. This is why people like extroverts, I think among, among many reasons. Number one, they help people come out of their shell, but because they're emotionally expressive, these are feelings that everybody has, right? The feelings that extroverts talk about anger and frustration and sadness and melancholy and happiness and joy, because extroverts live their emotions out loud. Everybody has those emotions. Everybody has those feelings. But because the extrovert expresses them, they say, yeah, I relate to that person.
All right.
It can be annoying.
I find it annoying mostly because I'm such an analytical person of a reaction to something. I'm not one to go off into an emotional state.
Now, let's be, let's be clear about this. We're not talking about this weird manic craziness. There's a, that's a mental condition. Right?
Right.
We're not talking mania here, but we are talking about the ability to express your emotions and to be comfortable with that and to tell people when you're angry or frustrated or happy or joyful or whatever it might be. Right.
You got. You guys have some strengths, too, Joe. And there's, these are things that I do look up to. We said that extroverts have this advantage that people do look up to. Some of your strengths and social confidence. You guys are just so at ease in social situations. That's something, like I've said I have to work on. And I've always admired people that are leaders who bring people together. They're able to network and grab others and introduce them to other people and build a community. And that is something I've worked on. I have to work on. Even last time I was. Where was I? Somewhere in awkward. And I said, I'm just going to. I'm gonna ask people questions. And I enjoyed it, but I have something I have to work at. But it's. I definitely admire that of you extroverts.
Yeah, but extroverts have to be careful. Nobody likes. Social confidence is one thing. This is a continuation of the, of our, of the last part, but social confidence is one thing. The back slant, but the back slapping, kind of overt. Gregarious. There's a real balance there. I think extroverts should learn to be warmer and more sincere or express sincerity. Extroverts are sincere, but they have to express sincerity. And I think if they can grab a hold of that man, social situations are almost unstoppable for an extrovert.
That's a great point. The sincerity piece. I'm thinking of some people in my life that I have looked up, and that probably a very important trait that I've noticed also in combination with this gregarious personality. Love that enthusiasm. I love enthusiasm, and I think I have definitely expressed enthusiasm. Maybe that's one of the things that pulls me out of my comfort zone, because I do get enthusiastic about certain topics and get excited about it, and I can be more gregarious in those kinds of situations. But I do appreciate enthusiasm in the extrovert.
So I want to wait until your. There's a bullet point here that I want to connect with enthusiasm, as with one of my kids. Yeah, it's a positive outlook. Connecting positive outlook with enthusiasm. There was a time very early in my life that we were looking for a less expensive living situation very early. And my daughter remembers, and she was just, she was very young. I can't I don't know how young she was, but she was very young. But a couple years ago, she mentioned to me, dad, I remember when we were looking for an apartment, and if you guys know my whole backstory, I'm not going to go into it here, but there's a backstory to this. But we were looking for an apartment. And I remember how, as I look back, how stressful that must have been for you. But you were so enthusiastic about when we would see a place, and you would see a. You would see a little cubbyhole, and you would say, hey, you could look, you could hide in there, or you can make that into a little clubhouse, or you can. We can turn this into a. We can turn this into a whole plane nook, or look how cool these. Look how cool these ceilings are. Something like that. And she pointed that out to me, and I never realized that that happened, but she carried that with her her whole life, up until a couple years ago, when she mentioned it to me how much as she looks back, she appreciates that positive outlook and that enthusiasm.
That's fantastic to hear those things from your kids, because you always beat yourself up for the wrong things you did as a parent.
Yeah, yeah.
As they get older, to hear the.
Positive, there's something to that. You don't want to beat yourself up too much, but there's something to being reflective. Right. That's a good thing to learn from those things, but a little enthusiasm and a positive outlook for you introverts can be extremely helpful. And I think this, Kurt, if you don't, if you're not naturally this way, you have definitely learned to be this way. And it serves you well because you are enthusiastic and you have a. When necessary, you're able to show a positive outlook on things.
Thank you. I do admire your communication skills of you extroverts, and I've always tried to improve on this strong verbal skills. Speaking in public, just really smooth. And that is a fantastic skill of the extrovert.
Let's talk about that just for a second, about communication skills and about being an extrovert. One problem that extroverts have now, you may say, yeah, they're smooth communicators, and they they have, uh, they have this way about them. This presence and that very well may be true, but sometimes an extrovert is so eager to get it out there that they don't do a very good job at framing and preparing and structuring their communication, their message, and their style to make sure they're effectively communicating. Sometimes it's just.
Yeah, or they dominate the conversation when others could be heard, especially when you're trying to collaborate and get the best outcomes in work situations. I've seen that. I've even been accused. I had one time in a review, annual review, someone made a point that was being a little more dominating in our team. As an introvert who thought, but again, I think I'm somewhere in the middle. I found this be interesting. I wonder where you think you fall into these four types of extroverts. There are extroverted sensors. You're strongly inspired by the physical world, or extroverted feelers. You enjoy listening and talking to other people. Extroverted intuitives who enjoy thinking abstractly and having deep conversations and friendly debates. I'm kind of leaning that way for you. Introverted thinkers who are goal oriented, high achieving and decisive. Where do you think you fall in those four?
So I think I have all four of those. At some level. I think my weaker. If we're just looking at these four, my weaker points are probably inspired by the physical world. My stronger point is extroverted intuitive, where. Yeah, I do like debating. Friendly debates. Deep conversations. I mean, deep, important conversations.
Yeah. That one described you for me.
Yeah. And friendly debates. I am charged by that. Extroverted thinker. These attributes may be a little braggadocious. There's a part of me that. That feels that way. But I'm not necessarily goal oriented, but I am decisive. I have no problem making a decision. I'm moving forward. And high achieving is all relative, right? We achieve. We're high achievers in some places, and low achievers and some people I know, very successful business people, that you would look at them and say, that's a. That's an extreme high achiever. And their family life is for crap.
Right?
Yeah, I'm definitely. I have some high achieving tendencies and some high achieving mindsets, but there's work we all can do there.
Yeah.
But if I had to pick one of these four. Extroverted intuitive.
All right. That's where I fall, I guess. I know.
How about you? How about you? If you have some. If you have some, you definitely have some extroverted tendencies, and I don't want to. I don't want to let you off the hook, calling you a full on introvert. What about your tendencies here? Extroverted sensors, feelers, intuitives, thinkers. Where would you fall?
The thing about the. I like thinking abstractly in deep conversations, debates. Not a fan of. That's a good split, maybe.
Hmm. That's interesting.
I don't really care about getting into. I'm more of a compromiser.
Interesting.
Yeah. I like hearing both sides. I like to listen and, and analyze both sides of a debate. I'm the type of person I love. I love listening to politics. And I won't bring politics in, but I go to both channels. Both sides?
Yeah.
I love listening to both sides.
I do, too. And I. And I make it a point to do that. But when I fall on a position, when I listen to both sides and I fall on a position, I'm not wishy washy. I'll listen to both sides. I'll hear both sides out, and I will understand that there are different perspectives, Kurt.
Yeah.
And I receive that, and I accept that. But when I fall on a decision, we're going to talk about it.
I think this. Extroverted thinkers, goal oriented, and I'm an achiever. I've done those personality tests. I don't know if high achieving, maybe more than depending who you're comparing me against. And decisive. Yeah, to a point. I've had my problems being decisive. Interesting. I thought those were good breakdowns. This is a good way to finish up our introvert to extrovert conversation, because how can you be more or less extroverted? So if you're an introvert, you can explore a hobby. Find clubs, meetups, groups where you can interact more with people who share your interests. I love that. I love collaboration. An interest that you. I love hobbies. I have so many. This makes it so much easier, too, because you relate to somebody immediately. There's. It's not hard to come up with a conversation if you're exploring a hobby that you're all interested in. So it. It's an easy icebreaker when you're into a club or a hobby that you're really interested in. So that's a great way to do that.
You have to be very intentional, even to the point of maybe going someplace that you're not necessarily interested in, to gather others perspectives and other ways of thinking.
You got to practice it. Increase your. I said to yourself, you know what? I'm going to have conversations with people. Somehow, some way, I'm going to be intentional about it. Increase your social exposure. They'll help you feel more comfortable talking to others more often. Yeah. The more you do, more comfortable you feel, no matter what it is you're working on, try new things. You might prefer to stay in your comfort zone, but.