WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:05.000 Welcome back to "Mysteries of the Mind," a true crime podcast hosted by myself, 00:05.000 --> 00:08.000 Preston Knight-- --and me, Daphne St. Clair! 00:08.000 --> 00:13.000 Today, we are wrapping up our coverage of the “Doctor Love” case with a full episode of Mindful Musings. 00:13.000 --> 00:23.000 We've unearthed and unveiled, for the first time ever, all the details around the 1950s asylum psychiatrist who ran away with her patient. 00:23.000 --> 00:29.000 If you haven't already, go listen to the first six episodes of this season, because it's spoilers from here on out! (giggles) 00:29.000 --> 00:37.000 On today's episode, we're rounding up questions you guys left us from all corners of the internet, but primarily our Patreon. 00:37.000 --> 00:44.000 We'll answer all your burning questions and dig a little deeper into what we think happened after Doctor Burnett and Hazel ran away. 00:44.000 --> 00:47.000 Stick around to the very end, where things get the juiciest! 00:47.000 --> 00:48.000 Stay tuned! 01:04.000 --> 01:08.000 Maya Appavoo presents, Doctor Love. An audio drama. 01:09.000 --> 01:12.000 Episode Seven: "Mindful Musings." 01:12.000 --> 02:08.000 A full list of themes, topics, and content warnings can be found in the episode description. (clearing throat) Alright, so today's episode is our end-of-season 02:08.000 --> 02:11.000 Mindful Musings recap. 02:11.000 --> 02:14.000 We're answering your questions and wrapping up any loose ends. 02:14.000 --> 02:17.000 We did want to start with a big thank you! 02:17.000 --> 02:23.000 The last couple weeks, we've gotten a lot of coverage in the news, on social media, and it's brought in a lot more of you guys. 02:23.000 --> 02:34.000 Yeah, I mean, this has been, really, so exciting, and it's really going to give us the resources to expand, so we can give you guys more and better quality content! 02:34.000 --> 02:36.000 So, in the way we've done all our big 02:36.000 --> 02:40.000 Mindful Musings episodes, we're splitting this episode up into themed chunks. 02:40.000 --> 02:46.000 So, to start with, we're talking about the logistics of the show, and of us as hosts! 02:46.000 --> 02:47.000 Shall we jump right in? 02:47.000 --> 02:50.000 All right, let's get into it. 02:50.000 --> 02:59.000 First up, we have a question from @VelmaEnigma1010, who asked, “I've been so intrigued by your work, 02:59.000 --> 03:06.000 Preston and Daphne, that I've been working on starting my own podcast about lesser known modern mysteries. 03:06.000 --> 03:12.000 One issue I keep running into is the fact the families of victims aren't willing to give me information. 03:12.000 --> 03:20.000 How did you guys manage to convince that family to give you everything, and do you have any advice for an up-and-coming true crime podcaster? 03:20.000 --> 03:22.000 Thanks." Okay, yeah. 03:22.000 --> 03:26.000 Well, it definitely is tricky to get information out of people. 03:26.000 --> 03:34.000 I don't want to get too deep into exactly how I get my hands on records, because I've got to keep, you know, protect, trade secrets, you know? (laughs) Hmm. 03:34.000 --> 03:38.000 But I will say, true crime is archival work. 03:38.000 --> 03:40.000 Anthropology, even. 03:40.000 --> 03:44.000 And sometimes you have to get a little messy in the pursuit of something important. 03:44.000 --> 03:51.000 Preservation of history, especially queer history, can be hard, and people will want to prevent you from doing it. 03:51.000 --> 03:56.000 You know, if you aren't willing to get your hands a little dirty, so to speak, then you're in the wrong business. 03:56.000 --> 03:58.000 Oh yeah, for sure, for sure. 03:58.000 --> 03:58.000 I mean, 03:58.000 --> 04:00.000 I think if you can get everything above board-- 04:00.000 --> 04:03.000 Yes. --you know, absolutely do it that way. 04:03.000 --> 04:05.000 But that's not always the case. 04:05.000 --> 04:14.000 You know, there's a lot of true crime podcasters who go over the basics where you can find everything online, and they just talk about it, so you can always be like that, but... Where's the fun in that? 04:14.000 --> 04:19.000 Anyway, our next question is from Shot-N-Chaser on Patreon. 04:19.000 --> 04:24.000 They asked, "Hey guys, can you put trigger warnings in before stuff like graphic deaths?" 04:24.000 --> 04:26.000 There's actually a reason we-- 04:26.000 --> 04:34.000 Yeah, well, at the very start of the season, we warned you guys that this would be intense, and that we wouldn't sugarcoat things. It is a true crime podcast. 04:34.000 --> 04:41.000 We understand that stuff like this can be tough, but we say, you know, "viewer discretion advised," and things like that. 04:41.000 --> 04:45.000 So, if you don't like it, you don't have to listen. 04:45.000 --> 04:46.000 I mean, honestly, 04:46.000 --> 04:49.000 I find the trigger warnings can be a bit of a spoiler. 04:49.000 --> 04:52.000 Like, I mean, it takes some of the oomph out of it, like, you know? 04:52.000 --> 04:57.000 Yeah, and, like, I don't know, I feel like if you're too sensitive for true crime, don't seek it out. 04:57.000 --> 04:58.000 Yeah. 04:58.000 --> 05:13.000 Alright, last one before we take a quick break, we've got The Comedic Magician from our Patreon, who said, "Not a question, just wanted to thank Preston for making us 'the curtains are just blue' people feel seen." (chuckles) Okay. 05:13.000 --> 05:14.000 What does that mean? 05:14.000 --> 05:16.000 It's about media literacy. 05:16.000 --> 05:23.000 Like, you know, sometimes the curtains being blue means something, but other times, the curtains are just blue. 05:23.000 --> 05:24.000 You know, I, 05:24.000 --> 05:27.000 I think this listener is referring to the eye contact thing from episode one. 05:27.000 --> 05:29.000 Okay, but I was right. 05:29.000 --> 05:30.000 The eye contact did mean something. 05:30.000 --> 05:32.000 Whether or not you were right, 05:32.000 --> 05:35.000 I think that-- Which I was. --I think it's more referring to our styles. 05:35.000 --> 05:40.000 You're a little more imaginative, and I'm a little more grounded. 05:40.000 --> 05:43.000 Don't you think everything has, like, a little bit of meaning? Sure. 05:43.000 --> 05:47.000 I mean, maybe whoever picked the curtains liked blue. 05:47.000 --> 05:51.000 You're impossible. (laughing) 05:52.000 --> 05:54.000 Alright, we're going to go take a bit of a break. 05:54.000 --> 05:59.000 Next up, we're getting into some of the details around Hazel and Doctor Burnett. 05:59.000 --> 06:00.000 We'll be back in a moment. 06:03.000 --> 06:16.000 Extended ad-free episodes, bonus content, and more - ko-fi.com/appoova Link in episode description! 06:17.000 --> 06:32.000 Sponsored message by Milkfish Streaming everywhere now! 06:46.000 --> 06:47.000 Welcome back! 06:47.000 --> 06:49.000 Our "theme" for the next few questions is 06:49.000 --> 06:52.000 Hazel and Doctor Burnett logistics and details. 06:52.000 --> 07:01.000 Starting off strong with a question from one of our Patreon members, Rain, who asked, "Are we really that confident that something was wrong with Hazel? 07:01.000 --> 07:03.000 Is it possible she was just sad?" 07:03.000 --> 07:13.000 I mean, Hazel was in isolation because she was considered so dangerous, so, I maintain that I think her issues were definitely exacerbated by loneliness. 07:13.000 --> 07:15.000 Yeah, that could definitely make it worse. 07:15.000 --> 07:24.000 But you have to remember, she ended up in an asylum after, from what-what-what we can tell, years of her loved ones noticing strange behavior. 07:24.000 --> 07:38.000 She undeniably was going through something, and we're obviously still not sure ourselves what that was, but, like, we're not professionals, we can't diagnose her. No, and, well, you can't diagnose someone without speaking to them yourself. 07:38.000 --> 07:43.000 I think she probably would have been able to get better under more modern health care. 07:43.000 --> 07:47.000 Or at least, you know, not made... worse. 07:48.000 --> 07:48.000 Mm, yeah. 07:48.000 --> 07:51.000 Okay, I'm going to smash two questions together. 07:51.000 --> 07:52.000 Ready? Ready. 07:52.000 --> 08:01.000 Okay, alright. Uh, @holidaycole asked, "Is there anything you can share with us that happened in the months that got cut?" 08:01.000 --> 08:10.000 And @cursedbythemoon asked, "Were there any tidbits you really wanted to include, but couldn't find time for it in an episode?" Oh, yes! 08:10.000 --> 08:14.000 And, all of that stuff is up on our Patreon, and some of it is on our Discord! 08:14.000 --> 08:15.000 Oh, sure is! 08:15.000 --> 08:20.000 In all seriousness, subscribing to the Patreon really helps us out. 08:20.000 --> 08:30.000 We really pride ourselves on doing good quality work here, and having a bit of income coming in through Patreon allows us to spend more time doing what we do, and invest in our studio. 08:30.000 --> 08:38.000 I mean, yeah, if you've noticed a lack of squeaking in this episode, it's because we were able to replace our couch, finally! Yes! 08:39.000 --> 08:45.000 Anyway, go check out our Patreon, there's so much fun stuff on there, and then go to our Discord and chat with us! 08:45.000 --> 08:47.000 Okay, I have one for you, Daphne. 08:47.000 --> 08:59.000 Oh? Ikaros, one of our Patreon members, asked, "If nobody was listening to the tapes, why didn't Doctor Burnett just outright tell Hazel how to answer the questions? 08:59.000 --> 09:00.000 Love the show!" 09:00.000 --> 09:04.000 I believe I said something about this at the time, but I'm happy to elaborate. 09:04.000 --> 09:05.000 I think it was just risky. 09:05.000 --> 09:14.000 Like, yes, the likelihood of someone listening to just your average run-of-the-mill session was pretty low, because those didn't really have much of note in them. 09:14.000 --> 09:25.000 But, a psychiatrist who's been under a watchful eye is more likely to get randomly checked up on, especially in sessions that are more significant, like the one where she and Hazel are talking about an evaluation. 09:25.000 --> 09:34.000 Oh, plus, like, any one of the executives could have walked by that room at any time, and they weren't really soundproof, as we heard in the assessment appointment clip. 09:34.000 --> 09:35.000 Yeah, yeah, 09:35.000 --> 09:39.000 I think it's one of those better-safe-than-sorry situations. 09:39.000 --> 09:43.000 Better to be cautious unnecessarily, than be too bold and get caught. 09:43.000 --> 09:44.000 Yeah. 09:44.000 --> 09:48.000 Okay, one more for you, Daphne, and then we'll take a break. 09:48.000 --> 09:53.000 Jared, from our Patreon, asked, "Hey, guys, love the show! 09:53.000 --> 10:02.000 Wanted to ask - have either of you, but especially Daphne--" (burp) excuse me, "--heard from Doctor Jackson's family since publishing all of this? 10:02.000 --> 10:08.000 Just curious, because this has gone sort of viral, and I don't know if they were expecting that." (giggle) 10:08.000 --> 10:11.000 Yeah, without saying too much, 10:11.000 --> 10:16.000 I have heard from them, and I agree with you, Jared, that 10:16.000 --> 10:20.000 I don't think they were expecting all the coverage. 10:20.000 --> 10:24.000 Oh, come on, Daph, you got to give them a little more than that. 10:24.000 --> 10:33.000 Okay, all I'll say is that I think they... they wish they'd thought to do what we've done, and are maybe a bit jealous of our success. 10:33.000 --> 10:34.000 Well, that's disappointing. 10:34.000 --> 10:35.000 It is. 10:35.000 --> 10:41.000 You'd hope they'd be happy for us, and for bringing light to this, but maybe... well, 10:41.000 --> 10:43.000 I don't think this is the legacy 10:43.000 --> 10:45.000 Doctor Jackson was hoping for. 10:45.000 --> 10:49.000 But that's what you get for, you know, being the way he was. For sure. 10:49.000 --> 10:52.000 Okay, thank you guys for sticking around so far. 10:52.000 --> 10:56.000 We'll be back in just a moment with some speculation and deeper musings. 10:58.000 --> 11:28.000 Sponsored message by Milkfish Streaming everywhere now! 11:40.000 --> 11:43.000 Alright, once again, we just wanted to say thank you to everyone. 11:43.000 --> 11:48.000 The support for this season has been so overwhelming, and has really changed our lives. 11:48.000 --> 11:55.000 Yeah, I mean, we can never thank you guys enough for sharing our show, talking about it, talking about Doctor Love... 11:55.000 --> 11:58.000 I mean, truly, it's been humbling. 11:58.000 --> 11:59.000 Thank you. 11:59.000 --> 12:07.000 And, you know, for the last few minutes of this episode, we'd like to share our thoughts, going further into speculation and, well, some mindful musings. 12:07.000 --> 12:10.000 Ready to get into our last batch of questions? Yes, sir. 12:10.000 --> 12:23.000 Alright. @DoctorLoveLover69, asked, "If Hazel hadn't been widowed, that is, if her husband was still alive, how do you think this would have changed things with Doctor Burnett?" Ooh. 12:23.000 --> 12:25.000 Alright, do you mind if I start off with this one? 12:25.000 --> 12:27.000 Cool. Okay. Yeah. 12:27.000 --> 12:37.000 I think Hazel wouldn't necessarily have been interested in Doctor Burnett, or she maybe would have, but been a lot slower to show interest. 12:37.000 --> 12:37.000 What? 12:37.000 --> 12:48.000 I just think, and, you know, this is me getting into a mindset of a 1950s housewife here for a second, you know, that she'd be more concerned about getting better so she could go back to being a good housewife. 12:48.000 --> 12:49.000 I disagree, 12:49.000 --> 12:52.000 I think it was like fate, almost. 12:52.000 --> 12:58.000 Doctor Burnett was always going to be her queer awakening, even if she weren't as lonely and isolated, 12:58.000 --> 13:04.000 I think it's clear that Hazel wasn't as irrevocably in love with her husband as she was with Doctor Burnett. 13:06.000 --> 13:07.000 I do think, though, that if 13:07.000 --> 13:12.000 Charles had been alive, it would have made running away together that much more complicated. 13:12.000 --> 13:13.000 Yeah, I mean, for sure. 13:13.000 --> 13:17.000 I mean, that's a very involved person in Hazel's life they'd have to get around. Mhmm. 13:18.000 --> 13:24.000 Okay, @SapphicGirl1989 asked, "What happened after they disappeared? 13:24.000 --> 13:26.000 You HAVE to tell us! 13:26.000 --> 13:32.000 I need to know if they had their happily ever after, and what Hazel's final diagnosis was!" 13:33.000 --> 13:34.000 We'll never know for certain. 13:34.000 --> 13:38.000 Hazel Mary Finley and Audrey Ann Burnett were never seen again-- 13:38.000 --> 13:44.000 I mean, yeah, it's more than likely they changed their names, and at, you know, a point in time where it was easier to get away with that. 13:44.000 --> 13:47.000 Exactly, yeah. I mean, we can speculate. 13:47.000 --> 13:55.000 I like to believe that they lived out their lives in a countryside cottage, maybe homesteading and just taking care of each other. 13:55.000 --> 13:55.000 I don't know, 13:55.000 --> 13:59.000 I can't see Doctor Burnett giving up her career so easily, 13:59.000 --> 14:05.000 I kind of wonder if she tried to forge a new medical license or retrain as a nurse, so she could keep working. 14:05.000 --> 14:10.000 This has been a hot topic in our Discord, which, by the way, you should join if you haven't already. 14:10.000 --> 14:12.000 There are some fan theories, for sure. 14:12.000 --> 14:16.000 Yeah, and there were a few folks talking about if they stayed together. 14:16.000 --> 14:18.000 A couple of people brought up the age gap? 14:18.000 --> 14:20.000 Which doesn't really make sense to me. 14:20.000 --> 14:24.000 Yeah, they were a few years apart, but, like, well into adulthood. 14:24.000 --> 14:26.000 It's not like Hazel was a child. 14:26.000 --> 14:32.000 But yeah, you know, some discourse about if that was healthy, I guess, and if they stayed together because of that. 14:32.000 --> 14:40.000 Honestly, I wonder if Doctor Burnett might have gotten bored, eventually, and that could have caused a split. 14:40.000 --> 14:41.000 No, I don't think so. 14:41.000 --> 14:48.000 I mean, I can see why age gaps are an issue these days, but at the time it wasn't, so I don't know where that's coming from, really. 14:48.000 --> 14:59.000 And, like, I think if Doctor Burnett were going to get bored, it would have happened within a year or two, the fact that they ran away together indicates to me that it was beyond infatuation. Mmm. 15:00.000 --> 15:01.000 Yeah. 15:01.000 --> 15:07.000 As for Hazel's diagnosis, again, we'll never know for certain what was going on with her. 15:07.000 --> 15:15.000 I doubt the emotional-- emotionally unstable personality disorder, uh, that she was diagnosed with - then cleared of - was the whole story. 15:15.000 --> 15:18.000 I think it maybe goes back to a large number of factors. 15:18.000 --> 15:21.000 The isolation, the depression, the trauma... 15:21.000 --> 15:24.000 Yeah, I think so, too. 15:24.000 --> 15:29.000 I guess it's one of those mysteries... of the mind. (laughing) 15:30.000 --> 15:32.000 You're so cringey. 15:32.000 --> 15:34.000 Last question of the season! 15:34.000 --> 15:40.000 Alright, this honour goes to Alex, from our Patreon, who asked, "If you could interview 15:40.000 --> 15:44.000 Hazel and Burnett for 30 minutes, what would you ask them? 15:44.000 --> 15:49.000 I'm curious about the kind of information you wanted, but weren't able to find." 15:49.000 --> 15:51.000 Oh, gosh, that's a good question. 15:51.000 --> 15:52.000 I mean, there's so many. 15:52.000 --> 16:00.000 I think I'd want to start off by asking about when they first, like, knew, or when they first said "I love you," or something like that. 16:00.000 --> 16:05.000 See, I'd have a bunch of questions to ask about the asylum, like, what was the culture like? 16:05.000 --> 16:07.000 You know, like-like, what were the politics like? 16:07.000 --> 16:11.000 Oh, like, how did the men treat Doctor Burnett throughout her time there? 16:11.000 --> 16:21.000 Ehh, I mean, more like, what were the common psychological theories they held on to, and importantly, how were you treated if you disagreed? 16:21.000 --> 16:25.000 You know, I think it'd be interesting to hear what it was like, especially at that time. 16:25.000 --> 16:26.000 Yeah, that's fair. 16:26.000 --> 16:36.000 I mean, I'm more interested in, like, what their dynamic was after they left, or-- well, I don't know, like... who was the top, (giggling) you know? 16:36.000 --> 16:38.000 Oh, God, I know. 16:38.000 --> 16:43.000 Well, that does it for this season of "Mysteries of the Mind." 16:43.000 --> 16:44.000 Thank you, again, for listening. 16:44.000 --> 16:51.000 Whether you're a new listener or an old fan, we appreciate the questions, they were great food for thought, and for all your support. 16:51.000 --> 17:03.000 We'll be back soon with another season, so check in on our socials, stay in touch with us via our Discord, and support us via Patreon, where there's a longer version of this episode, and all sorts of bonus content from this season. 17:03.000 --> 17:05.000 That's it from us for now. 17:05.000 --> 17:07.000 I've been Preston Knight-- --and I'm Daphne St Clair. 17:07.000 --> 17:09.000 See you soon! Bye! 17:24.000 --> 17:30.000 Doctor Love is written and directed by Maya Appavoo, and produced by Maya Appavoo and Monica Gate. 17:30.000 --> 17:35.000 Starring the voice acting talents of Madeline Harsh as Daphne, and Jacob Martin as Preston. 17:35.000 --> 17:37.000 Post production management by Monica Gate. 17:37.000 --> 17:41.000 Sound design for this episode by Ken Kosowick, and music by Ken Kosowick. 17:41.000 --> 17:51.000 The full list of credits and disclaimers can be found in the episode description, or on our website: appoova.ca/portfolio/doctorlove. 17:51.000 --> 17:55.000 Follow us on social media! We are @doctorlovepod on everything. 17:56.000 --> 18:00.000 Doctor Love is supported by the Edmonton Arts Council, and the City of Edmonton. 18:00.000 --> 18:03.000 Thank you for listening, and we hope you enjoyed the show. 18:10.000 --> 18:13.000 The End.