Welcome back to "Mysteries of the Mind," a true crime podcast hosted by myself,
Preston Knight-- --and me, Daphne St. Clair!
Today, we are wrapping up our coverage of the “Doctor Love” case with a full episode of Mindful Musings.
We've unearthed and unveiled, for the first time ever, all the details around the 1950s asylum psychiatrist who ran away with her patient.
If you haven't already, go listen to the first six episodes of this season, because it's spoilers from here on out! (giggles)
On today's episode, we're rounding up questions you guys left us from all corners of the internet, but primarily our Patreon.
We'll answer all your burning questions and dig a little deeper into what we think happened after Doctor Burnett and Hazel ran away.
Stick around to the very end, where things get the juiciest!
Stay tuned!
Maya Appavoo presents, Doctor Love. An audio drama.
Episode Seven: "Mindful Musings."
A full list of themes, topics, and content warnings can be found in the episode description. (clearing throat) Alright, so today's episode is our end-of-season
Mindful Musings recap.
We're answering your questions and wrapping up any loose ends.
We did want to start with a big thank you!
The last couple weeks, we've gotten a lot of coverage in the news, on social media, and it's brought in a lot more of you guys.
Yeah, I mean, this has been, really, so exciting, and it's really going to give us the resources to expand, so we can give you guys more and better quality content!
So, in the way we've done all our big
Mindful Musings episodes, we're splitting this episode up into themed chunks.
So, to start with, we're talking about the logistics of the show, and of us as hosts!
Shall we jump right in?
All right, let's get into it.
First up, we have a question from @VelmaEnigma1010, who asked, “I've been so intrigued by your work,
Preston and Daphne, that I've been working on starting my own podcast about lesser known modern mysteries.
One issue I keep running into is the fact the families of victims aren't willing to give me information.
How did you guys manage to convince that family to give you everything, and do you have any advice for an up-and-coming true crime podcaster?
Thanks." Okay, yeah.
Well, it definitely is tricky to get information out of people.
I don't want to get too deep into exactly how I get my hands on records, because I've got to keep, you know, protect, trade secrets, you know? (laughs) Hmm.
But I will say, true crime is archival work.
Anthropology, even.
And sometimes you have to get a little messy in the pursuit of something important.
Preservation of history, especially queer history, can be hard, and people will want to prevent you from doing it.
You know, if you aren't willing to get your hands a little dirty, so to speak, then you're in the wrong business.
Oh yeah, for sure, for sure.
I mean,
I think if you can get everything above board--
Yes. --you know, absolutely do it that way.
But that's not always the case.
You know, there's a lot of true crime podcasters who go over the basics where you can find everything online, and they just talk about it, so you can always be like that, but... Where's the fun in that?
Anyway, our next question is from Shot-N-Chaser on Patreon.
They asked, "Hey guys, can you put trigger warnings in before stuff like graphic deaths?"
There's actually a reason we--
Yeah, well, at the very start of the season, we warned you guys that this would be intense, and that we wouldn't sugarcoat things. It is a true crime podcast.
We understand that stuff like this can be tough, but we say, you know, "viewer discretion advised," and things like that.
So, if you don't like it, you don't have to listen.
I mean, honestly,
I find the trigger warnings can be a bit of a spoiler.
Like, I mean, it takes some of the oomph out of it, like, you know?
Yeah, and, like, I don't know, I feel like if you're too sensitive for true crime, don't seek it out.
Yeah.
Alright, last one before we take a quick break, we've got The Comedic Magician from our Patreon, who said, "Not a question, just wanted to thank Preston for making us 'the curtains are just blue' people feel seen." (chuckles) Okay.
What does that mean?
It's about media literacy.
Like, you know, sometimes the curtains being blue means something, but other times, the curtains are just blue.
You know, I,
I think this listener is referring to the eye contact thing from episode one.
Okay, but I was right.
The eye contact did mean something.
Whether or not you were right,
I think that-- Which I was. --I think it's more referring to our styles.
You're a little more imaginative, and I'm a little more grounded.
Don't you think everything has, like, a little bit of meaning? Sure.
I mean, maybe whoever picked the curtains liked blue.
You're impossible. (laughing)
Alright, we're going to go take a bit of a break.
Next up, we're getting into some of the details around Hazel and Doctor Burnett.
We'll be back in a moment.
Extended ad-free episodes, bonus content, and more - ko-fi.com/appoova Link in episode description!
Sponsored message by Milkfish Streaming everywhere now!
Welcome back!
Our "theme" for the next few questions is
Hazel and Doctor Burnett logistics and details.
Starting off strong with a question from one of our Patreon members, Rain, who asked, "Are we really that confident that something was wrong with Hazel?
Is it possible she was just sad?"
I mean, Hazel was in isolation because she was considered so dangerous, so, I maintain that I think her issues were definitely exacerbated by loneliness.
Yeah, that could definitely make it worse.
But you have to remember, she ended up in an asylum after, from what-what-what we can tell, years of her loved ones noticing strange behavior.
She undeniably was going through something, and we're obviously still not sure ourselves what that was, but, like, we're not professionals, we can't diagnose her. No, and, well, you can't diagnose someone without speaking to them yourself.
I think she probably would have been able to get better under more modern health care.
Or at least, you know, not made... worse.
Mm, yeah.
Okay, I'm going to smash two questions together.
Ready? Ready.
Okay, alright. Uh, @holidaycole asked, "Is there anything you can share with us that happened in the months that got cut?"
And @cursedbythemoon asked, "Were there any tidbits you really wanted to include, but couldn't find time for it in an episode?" Oh, yes!
And, all of that stuff is up on our Patreon, and some of it is on our Discord!
Oh, sure is!
In all seriousness, subscribing to the Patreon really helps us out.
We really pride ourselves on doing good quality work here, and having a bit of income coming in through Patreon allows us to spend more time doing what we do, and invest in our studio.
I mean, yeah, if you've noticed a lack of squeaking in this episode, it's because we were able to replace our couch, finally! Yes!
Anyway, go check out our Patreon, there's so much fun stuff on there, and then go to our Discord and chat with us!
Okay, I have one for you, Daphne.
Oh? Ikaros, one of our Patreon members, asked, "If nobody was listening to the tapes, why didn't Doctor Burnett just outright tell Hazel how to answer the questions?
Love the show!"
I believe I said something about this at the time, but I'm happy to elaborate.
I think it was just risky.
Like, yes, the likelihood of someone listening to just your average run-of-the-mill session was pretty low, because those didn't really have much of note in them.
But, a psychiatrist who's been under a watchful eye is more likely to get randomly checked up on, especially in sessions that are more significant, like the one where she and Hazel are talking about an evaluation.
Oh, plus, like, any one of the executives could have walked by that room at any time, and they weren't really soundproof, as we heard in the assessment appointment clip.
Yeah, yeah,
I think it's one of those better-safe-than-sorry situations.
Better to be cautious unnecessarily, than be too bold and get caught.
Yeah.
Okay, one more for you, Daphne, and then we'll take a break.
Jared, from our Patreon, asked, "Hey, guys, love the show!
Wanted to ask - have either of you, but especially Daphne--" (burp) excuse me, "--heard from Doctor Jackson's family since publishing all of this?
Just curious, because this has gone sort of viral, and I don't know if they were expecting that." (giggle)
Yeah, without saying too much,
I have heard from them, and I agree with you, Jared, that
I don't think they were expecting all the coverage.
Oh, come on, Daph, you got to give them a little more than that.
Okay, all I'll say is that I think they... they wish they'd thought to do what we've done, and are maybe a bit jealous of our success.
Well, that's disappointing.
It is.
You'd hope they'd be happy for us, and for bringing light to this, but maybe... well,
I don't think this is the legacy
Doctor Jackson was hoping for.
But that's what you get for, you know, being the way he was. For sure.
Okay, thank you guys for sticking around so far.
We'll be back in just a moment with some speculation and deeper musings.
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Alright, once again, we just wanted to say thank you to everyone.
The support for this season has been so overwhelming, and has really changed our lives.
Yeah, I mean, we can never thank you guys enough for sharing our show, talking about it, talking about Doctor Love...
I mean, truly, it's been humbling.
Thank you.
And, you know, for the last few minutes of this episode, we'd like to share our thoughts, going further into speculation and, well, some mindful musings.
Ready to get into our last batch of questions? Yes, sir.
Alright. @DoctorLoveLover69, asked, "If Hazel hadn't been widowed, that is, if her husband was still alive, how do you think this would have changed things with Doctor Burnett?" Ooh.
Alright, do you mind if I start off with this one?
Cool. Okay. Yeah.
I think Hazel wouldn't necessarily have been interested in Doctor Burnett, or she maybe would have, but been a lot slower to show interest.
What?
I just think, and, you know, this is me getting into a mindset of a 1950s housewife here for a second, you know, that she'd be more concerned about getting better so she could go back to being a good housewife.
I disagree,
I think it was like fate, almost.
Doctor Burnett was always going to be her queer awakening, even if she weren't as lonely and isolated,
I think it's clear that Hazel wasn't as irrevocably in love with her husband as she was with Doctor Burnett.
I do think, though, that if
Charles had been alive, it would have made running away together that much more complicated.
Yeah, I mean, for sure.
I mean, that's a very involved person in Hazel's life they'd have to get around. Mhmm.
Okay, @SapphicGirl1989 asked, "What happened after they disappeared?
You HAVE to tell us!
I need to know if they had their happily ever after, and what Hazel's final diagnosis was!"
We'll never know for certain.
Hazel Mary Finley and Audrey Ann Burnett were never seen again--
I mean, yeah, it's more than likely they changed their names, and at, you know, a point in time where it was easier to get away with that.
Exactly, yeah. I mean, we can speculate.
I like to believe that they lived out their lives in a countryside cottage, maybe homesteading and just taking care of each other.
I don't know,
I can't see Doctor Burnett giving up her career so easily,
I kind of wonder if she tried to forge a new medical license or retrain as a nurse, so she could keep working.
This has been a hot topic in our Discord, which, by the way, you should join if you haven't already.
There are some fan theories, for sure.
Yeah, and there were a few folks talking about if they stayed together.
A couple of people brought up the age gap?
Which doesn't really make sense to me.
Yeah, they were a few years apart, but, like, well into adulthood.
It's not like Hazel was a child.
But yeah, you know, some discourse about if that was healthy, I guess, and if they stayed together because of that.
Honestly, I wonder if Doctor Burnett might have gotten bored, eventually, and that could have caused a split.
No, I don't think so.
I mean, I can see why age gaps are an issue these days, but at the time it wasn't, so I don't know where that's coming from, really.
And, like, I think if Doctor Burnett were going to get bored, it would have happened within a year or two, the fact that they ran away together indicates to me that it was beyond infatuation. Mmm.
Yeah.
As for Hazel's diagnosis, again, we'll never know for certain what was going on with her.
I doubt the emotional-- emotionally unstable personality disorder, uh, that she was diagnosed with - then cleared of - was the whole story.
I think it maybe goes back to a large number of factors.
The isolation, the depression, the trauma...
Yeah, I think so, too.
I guess it's one of those mysteries... of the mind. (laughing)
You're so cringey.
Last question of the season!
Alright, this honour goes to Alex, from our Patreon, who asked, "If you could interview
Hazel and Burnett for 30 minutes, what would you ask them?
I'm curious about the kind of information you wanted, but weren't able to find."
Oh, gosh, that's a good question.
I mean, there's so many.
I think I'd want to start off by asking about when they first, like, knew, or when they first said "I love you," or something like that.
See, I'd have a bunch of questions to ask about the asylum, like, what was the culture like?
You know, like-like, what were the politics like?
Oh, like, how did the men treat Doctor Burnett throughout her time there?
Ehh, I mean, more like, what were the common psychological theories they held on to, and importantly, how were you treated if you disagreed?
You know, I think it'd be interesting to hear what it was like, especially at that time.
Yeah, that's fair.
I mean, I'm more interested in, like, what their dynamic was after they left, or-- well, I don't know, like... who was the top, (giggling) you know?
Oh, God, I know.
Well, that does it for this season of "Mysteries of the Mind."
Thank you, again, for listening.
Whether you're a new listener or an old fan, we appreciate the questions, they were great food for thought, and for all your support.
We'll be back soon with another season, so check in on our socials, stay in touch with us via our Discord, and support us via Patreon, where there's a longer version of this episode, and all sorts of bonus content from this season.
That's it from us for now.
I've been Preston Knight-- --and I'm Daphne St Clair.
See you soon! Bye!
Doctor Love is written and directed by Maya Appavoo, and produced by Maya Appavoo and Monica Gate.
Starring the voice acting talents of Madeline Harsh as Daphne, and Jacob Martin as Preston.
Post production management by Monica Gate.
Sound design for this episode by Ken Kosowick, and music by Ken Kosowick.
The full list of credits and disclaimers can be found in the episode description, or on our website: appoova.ca/portfolio/doctorlove.
Follow us on social media! We are @doctorlovepod on everything.
Doctor Love is supported by the Edmonton Arts Council, and the City of Edmonton.
Thank you for listening, and we hope you enjoyed the show.
The End.