WEBVTT 00:02.000 --> 00:05.000 Hello and welcome to the humanwhere See Things Differently podcast. 00:05.000 --> 00:21.000 Each month, join your hosts Peter two six, Rachel Ramos and David Woodbridge as we bring you engaging interviews from guests, interaction from our one of a kind distribution partners stories that will take you off the beaten path, current promos, shows where you can find us, and so much more. 00:21.000 --> 00:24.000 So stick around. 00:24.000 --> 00:27.000 Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, good night. 00:27.000 --> 00:28.000 Good day. 00:28.000 --> 00:30.000 I hope I got it right just from the same way 00:30.000 --> 00:34.000 I did it in episode one, or the brief intro, version of this. 00:35.000 --> 00:43.000 Welcome to episode two of See Things Differently with human, where my name is Peter two sic the director of Strategic partnerships at human. 00:43.000 --> 00:46.000 We're joined once again by Rachel Ramos. 00:46.000 --> 00:47.000 How's it going, Rachel? 00:47.000 --> 00:50.000 Hey, Peter. I'm back. Rachel has a new mic. 00:51.000 --> 00:51.000 Great. 00:51.000 --> 00:53.000 I do have a new mic. 00:53.000 --> 00:55.000 Got a mixer. I'm ready to go. 00:55.000 --> 00:56.000 Woo! Yeah! 00:56.000 --> 00:58.000 Settled in. Rachel is settled in. 00:58.000 --> 00:59.000 You know it. 00:59.000 --> 01:00.000 Glad you're here. 01:00.000 --> 01:02.000 Rachel and David, how's the last month? 01:02.000 --> 01:05.000 And how's your third Thursday of the month going? 01:05.000 --> 01:05.000 Very good. 01:05.000 --> 01:11.000 I'm just sitting here cringing quietly for Rachel's enthusiasm. 01:11.000 --> 01:12.000 I'm just jazzed, David. 01:12.000 --> 01:15.000 I'm ready to let it go. Awfully fired up. 01:15.000 --> 01:18.000 I'll just be the calm voice of reason from beyond the grave. 01:18.000 --> 01:21.000 I mean, beyond the southern hemisphere or something like that. 01:22.000 --> 01:23.000 You're showing, 01:23.000 --> 01:24.000 You're showing your age. 01:24.000 --> 01:26.000 David, let's just just calm down. 01:26.000 --> 01:29.000 I know, am I? 01:30.000 --> 01:41.000 Oh, we are so glad to be back with everybody for the second episode. In this month, we're going to talk about lots of low vision themed pieces and myself and Rachel and David, we're all totally blind. 01:41.000 --> 01:43.000 So it is Low Vision Awareness Month. 01:43.000 --> 01:49.000 And so we want to, not necessarily step out of our comfort zones, but certainly talk a bit about low vision. 01:49.000 --> 01:59.000 And I think for all of us, here, low vision is something, you know, that we aren't as familiar with as we are with blindness being totally blind and dealing with Braille and all these other things. 01:59.000 --> 02:02.000 But we have an amazing program scheduled. 02:03.000 --> 02:20.000 So stay tuned for an interview and for our other segments that you will come to know. quite regularly in terms of the tips and tricks we will have our partner corner, we will also have our cringe worthy piece and our hot take. 02:20.000 --> 02:27.000 And I, you know, all of them will be themed around or sort of centered around low vision because of this Low Vision Awareness month. 02:27.000 --> 02:35.000 To get things started, I want to welcome somebody who has a master's of music and vocal performance from Carnegie Mellon University. 02:35.000 --> 02:53.000 She has performed all over the world from Tokyo to Heidelberg, certainly in places like Austria and Union Station, and in DC all over the place is a 2014 National Federation of the blind scholarship winner. 02:53.000 --> 03:03.000 In addition to all of that, she is, you know, as a speaker, is a competitive ballroom dancer and is currently the president of the National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division. 03:04.000 --> 03:06.000 Katelyn McIntyre, how are you? 03:06.000 --> 03:08.000 It's wonderful to be here with you all. 03:08.000 --> 03:09.000 Thank you so much for having me. 03:09.000 --> 03:14.000 We're just so glad you can join us, and I can't wait for everyone to hear about all the cool things you do. 03:14.000 --> 03:24.000 And as a singer, as a ballroom dancer, we're going to go into all this as a, actually, I should say competitive ballroom dancer, right? Yes. 03:24.000 --> 03:28.000 I think, you know, we we're there's a lot of things here. 03:28.000 --> 03:34.000 And I know we're recording this kind of late at night because you and I both have kiddos who are young and doing all these sorts of things. 03:34.000 --> 03:37.000 So we appreciate your time. 03:37.000 --> 03:43.000 How did you get into being a soprano opera singer and doing some amazing things? 03:43.000 --> 03:45.000 What got you going in that direction? 03:45.000 --> 03:46.000 Absolutely, yeah. Thank you. 03:46.000 --> 03:49.000 You know, my goodness, that has many layers to it. 03:49.000 --> 03:56.000 I grew up in a very musical family, so I have two older brothers, and we actually used to sing together as the McIntyre Family Singers. 03:56.000 --> 03:57.000 Way back in the day. 03:57.000 --> 04:02.000 My brothers would switch off, yes, between tenor and bass, and my mom sang alto, and I sings soprano. 04:02.000 --> 04:07.000 And, that's kind of how I got my start in and, being musical together as a family. 04:07.000 --> 04:11.000 And both of my older brothers also went on to pursue some music in college. 04:11.000 --> 04:15.000 And, one of them was a classical pianist for a while became a singer songwriter. 04:15.000 --> 04:19.000 The other did musical theater for, many years, was on the Mamma mia! 04:19.000 --> 04:27.000 National tour side note, which is another fun conversation, but so I kind of just always grew up around music, knowing it was something that I loved. 04:27.000 --> 04:32.000 Seeing them succeed at it gave me a vision for the fact, hey, I love this. 04:32.000 --> 04:34.000 And I could certainly pursue this as a career as well. 04:34.000 --> 04:38.000 And so I was very supported by my family, by my parents. 04:39.000 --> 04:41.000 And so when it came time for college, I just kind of naturally- 04:41.000 --> 04:45.000 Yeah, I absolutely want to do a Bachelor music in vocal performance. 04:45.000 --> 04:46.000 Why not? 04:46.000 --> 04:53.000 Which is the degree one would pursue if one wants to, study opera and art, song and classical music and all those things. 04:53.000 --> 04:56.000 There are other variations, of course, of that, but, that's what I did. 04:56.000 --> 05:02.000 So I went to college, to receive my bachelor's, and then followed that with a Master's degree, also in vocal performance. 05:02.000 --> 05:11.000 And so I studied lots of different, operas, different languages, art songs, lieder, melody, German and French, things like that. 05:11.000 --> 05:15.000 Got to premiere a contemporary opera, do all kinds of different things. 05:15.000 --> 05:19.000 I also studied a little jazz and musical theater along the way, and, 05:19.000 --> 05:22.000 I've been very blessed to do some wonderful performing. 05:22.000 --> 05:25.000 And then as I have, kind of in the more recent years, 05:25.000 --> 05:34.000 I still love to perform when I can, but I, as mentioned, also do have two little ones, a one and a half year old and a three and a half year old right now who keep me extremely busy. 05:34.000 --> 05:36.000 They are bundles of joy. 05:36.000 --> 05:39.000 But you know, as parents can relate. 05:39.000 --> 05:42.000 They keep you tired and on your toes. 05:42.000 --> 05:43.000 It's a wonderful adventure. 05:43.000 --> 05:49.000 But, performance schedules are a little more challenging at the moment, so I do a lot of teaching now as well. 05:49.000 --> 05:53.000 And so I teach voice, piano, guitar, music theory, mostly voice. 05:53.000 --> 05:55.000 And I can do that out of my home. 05:55.000 --> 05:56.000 I still do a lot of that virtually. 05:56.000 --> 05:58.000 I have several virtual students. 05:58.000 --> 06:10.000 And so anyway, it's a blessing I get to still perform when I can, but also pass on a lot of what I've learned to others and, and kind of still have my toe in that musical world, even though I'm also a full time mom right now. 06:10.000 --> 06:11.000 You're mommying it up. 06:11.000 --> 06:13.000 That is absolutely awesome. 06:13.000 --> 06:25.000 How I guess as your as you're going through all of this and I know we had spoken briefly prior to recording this and I had asked you about having some usable vision. 06:25.000 --> 06:34.000 How does your low vision or, you know, your blindness or visual impairment, how does it impact when you're learning something from scratch? 06:34.000 --> 06:38.000 And I'm assuming, I mean, I know you you said you teach theory and that's great. 06:38.000 --> 06:43.000 So you do know music and music theory and things, but are you sight reading this music? 06:43.000 --> 06:44.000 What are you doing? 06:44.000 --> 06:50.000 And how does that how do you mix, like having a bit of usable vision, but maybe not at full, full piece? 06:50.000 --> 06:57.000 How does that work for you as you're starting to learn some of these new pieces or even pieces, you know, well, taking stage direction and things, how has it been? 06:58.000 --> 06:58.000 Yeah. 06:58.000 --> 07:01.000 And I will give the disclaimer that, you know, every 07:01.000 --> 07:03.000 I think every low vision musician is a little bit different. 07:03.000 --> 07:05.000 Right. And so I may do it one way. 07:05.000 --> 07:08.000 This may work for some, but it may not work for someone else. 07:08.000 --> 07:21.000 But for me, in my college years and, and throughout my music learning journey and career, I have used a lot of large print music and so, that has looked like some pretty large pieces of paper. 07:21.000 --> 07:28.000 I actually have done 12 by 18 paper twice for every page of eight and a half by 11 music. 07:28.000 --> 07:32.000 I would often have, you know, the top half of the page and then turned to the bottom half of the page. 07:32.000 --> 07:36.000 But the answer to can I sight read is no, I can not read it fast enough. 07:36.000 --> 07:39.000 So, you know, my vision is such. 07:39.000 --> 07:40.000 I have nystagmus. 07:40.000 --> 07:42.000 I'm far sighted. 07:42.000 --> 07:44.000 I have about five degrees of vision. 07:44.000 --> 07:48.000 So, like, all those things kind of combine that I can't really see a lot at once. 07:48.000 --> 07:50.000 It doesn't come through real clear. 07:50.000 --> 07:56.000 Takes me a minute to kind of focus on it so I can't be going, you know, note to note fast enough to keep up with it. 07:56.000 --> 07:59.000 I can't see the words at the same time as the music. 07:59.000 --> 08:01.000 So definitely sight reading is out. 08:01.000 --> 08:06.000 As far as the learning, I definitely would go very, very slowly in a practice room. 08:06.000 --> 08:09.000 So a measure of music is kind of a chunk of music, a phrase of music. 08:10.000 --> 08:15.000 And I would, you know, look at that measure and maybe play the notes out on the piano, sing them back. 08:15.000 --> 08:17.000 Okay, let me repeat this a few times. 08:17.000 --> 08:23.000 Let me add the words in, or maybe read the words first and make sure I know what I'm saying, and then put the rhythm to it, put the music to it. 08:23.000 --> 08:33.000 So kind of different techniques, but a lot of very slow, making sure that I get it accurately because that would be a shame to learn it wrong, right. 08:33.000 --> 08:35.000 If I'm spending all this time and I sing the wrong notes. 08:35.000 --> 08:38.000 So, I'm sure it's happened at some point. 08:38.000 --> 08:41.000 Have you ever used any assistive technology? 08:42.000 --> 08:48.000 You know, I guess both in learning or on stage at all, I mean, anything we know there are programs out there like, Lime Lighter or some other things. 08:49.000 --> 08:52.000 Have you ever dabbled in that or have you just kind of not needed to? 08:53.000 --> 08:55.000 That is a great question. 08:55.000 --> 08:59.000 I did not know about Lime Lighter years ago when I was in college, which is so sad. 08:59.000 --> 09:05.000 I think actually I did find out about it at one point, and my counselor said it was, my VR counselor said it was too expensive, which was really sad. 09:05.000 --> 09:09.000 Oh no, that's a whole discussion for its own self. 09:09.000 --> 09:09.000 Wholly Molly 09:09.000 --> 09:12.000 I just and we do have a clip because I, 09:13.000 --> 09:17.000 I'm fascinated by this and I want to ask you about this. 09:17.000 --> 09:30.000 So if, if we can Rachel, can you cue a few seconds of this, so we can hear Katelyn singing and everyone loves hear themself sing, although you're a professional, so you can you're like, you're, like, proud of this. 09:30.000 --> 09:33.000 If I heard myself sing, I'd run away. I wouldn't even be in this interview. 09:33.000 --> 09:35.000 All right, let's roll the tape. 09:35.000 --> 09:54.000 As they say. (Music playing) (Music playing) (Music playing) (Music playing) 09:54.000 --> 10:00.000 So as we hear this and I took German in high school, and I'm not pretending to even know what you're saying. 10:00.000 --> 10:01.000 I know the song is. 10:01.000 --> 10:04.000 I think it's like, For My Love or something, I believe so. 10:04.000 --> 10:06.000 Oh, they all are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 10:06.000 --> 10:13.000 But you know, it's one thing to learn a language to, you know, learn how to read and write that language, learn how to talk about language. 10:13.000 --> 10:19.000 It's an entirely different world to learn how to sing in a language that you don't, I'm assuming, natively speak. 10:20.000 --> 10:34.000 One question I've got my daughter is actually a audio sound and lighting engineer, for live performances, and I've always been curious to ask low vision people, how do you go when they use spotlights on stage? 10:34.000 --> 10:44.000 So, you know, spotlight a particular singer or performer, and then you've got different lights going on as well, and you've got dark versus very bright light and that sort of stuff. 10:44.000 --> 10:46.000 How does that affect you personally? Do you think? 10:46.000 --> 10:48.000 Yeah, that's an interesting thought. 10:48.000 --> 10:53.000 And, you know, again, this would be different for every low vision case because some people have super sensitivity to light. 10:53.000 --> 10:54.000 So people have less. 10:54.000 --> 11:03.000 So I'm kind of in the middle where I think I can, I know I have some friends who are very sensitive to light, and so they often just have to wear dark glasses. 11:03.000 --> 11:18.000 If that's the case, if they're going to be in a spotlight situation or turn their head and ask that the spotlight be directed, you know, different work with the lighting person to try to, not be in that direct spotlight at that particular time or whatever it is. 11:18.000 --> 11:19.000 For me, it's interesting. 11:19.000 --> 11:24.000 I definitely, I definitely can't see anything out in the audience. 11:24.000 --> 11:27.000 I, I couldn't probably see much anyway because it's too far away for me. 11:27.000 --> 11:30.000 But when those bright lights are there, I'm like, well, yep. Definitely. 11:30.000 --> 11:35.000 I have no idea if there's like one person out in the audience or, you know, 300 or whatever it is. 11:36.000 --> 11:44.000 One thing that can be useful, this is not exactly, what you were saying, but I actually sometimes use those as cues for me. 11:44.000 --> 11:53.000 And so if I know that there are going to generally be like two spotlights up in the, you know, kind of diagonal up left field of vision and the diagonal up right, 11:54.000 --> 12:01.000 I can say, okay, I have generally pointed the right direction here versus, oh, I've got it to, into my right field of vision. 12:01.000 --> 12:03.000 I must be a little bit turned. Let me turn myself back. 12:03.000 --> 12:05.000 So sometimes that can actually be helpful. 12:05.000 --> 12:13.000 Used as a, as you know, if you will, visual cues but staging cues but otherwise, yes, it can be a challenge. 12:13.000 --> 12:17.000 I definitely don't rely on my vision as much as possible when I'm on stage. 12:17.000 --> 12:21.000 So I try to just because you never know if something is going to be extra bright. 12:21.000 --> 12:26.000 Or maybe my vision is going to be a little shaky that day, and it's going to be harder for me to focus. 12:26.000 --> 12:31.000 And I just have no idea what what's what state I'm going to be, if you will. 12:31.000 --> 12:34.000 You know how quickly my eyes are going to track that at that moment. 12:34.000 --> 12:39.000 And so I try to generally do things with, with alternative techniques. 12:39.000 --> 12:54.000 Anyway, as far as, using my feet maybe to find the edge of a rug that's maybe on the stage and that's my, my spot where I stand, or using the back of a couch kind of trail along while I walking from one side to the other, or maybe grabbing the arm of a fellow actor and pretending, you know, we're sisters. 12:54.000 --> 12:57.000 And where we're dancing around, and we're going from one side of the stage to the other. 12:57.000 --> 13:05.000 So, Caitlin, you mentioned something about, you know, your sisters and your dancing, but you also do ballroom dancing. 13:05.000 --> 13:06.000 Is that right? 13:06.000 --> 13:07.000 I do, I do. 13:07.000 --> 13:10.000 How do you do that as a low vision person? 13:10.000 --> 13:15.000 Because dancing is obviously something that requires a lot of movement and spatial awareness. 13:15.000 --> 13:25.000 And I would just love to know some of the experiences that you've had in terms of either performing, or is it kind of a ballroom dancing with a partner? 13:25.000 --> 13:28.000 How does that work? That's just fascinating to me. 13:28.000 --> 13:30.000 Yeah. Thank you. I, I love it. 13:30.000 --> 13:37.000 I one thing I think I'm very grateful for, grateful for many things, but one thing my parents did is they encouraged me to try different activities when I was young. 13:37.000 --> 13:39.000 And so some of those were dance type things. 13:39.000 --> 13:47.000 I did some tap in ballet and then got into clogging for many years, which is kind of like an Irish tap dance combination. 13:47.000 --> 14:03.000 Side note what I loved about that is that it got me comfortable with my body, got me comfortable moving in space and being confident, you know, literally taking a step forward somewhere and using my arms out in the air around me and, and not being worried about what may happen. 14:03.000 --> 14:05.000 You know, if I took one wrong step or something like that. 14:05.000 --> 14:09.000 So it really developed a lot of self-confidence and, spatial awareness. 14:09.000 --> 14:24.000 And so later when I was, in my Master's degree, actually is really when I started doing more ballroom dancing and, a lot of what competitive ballroom dancing is, is with a partner, you can do certain solo things, but it's a lot of with the partner. 14:24.000 --> 14:30.000 And so usually I better follow their leads and follows traditionally, you know, better than women, but gender roles are more fluid now. 14:30.000 --> 14:32.000 And so leads and follows. 14:32.000 --> 14:48.000 And I've traditionally been a follow which for me as a blind person works great because if we are in a dance that is moving around the stage or the dance floor, I don't need to be as concerned about which direction exactly we're facing, how far our steps are going. 14:48.000 --> 14:55.000 That's the lead's job is to determine direction and, kind of pacing of movement and those sorts of things. 14:55.000 --> 14:57.000 The follow has, has other jobs. 14:57.000 --> 15:02.000 That's been really helpful for me as someone who's blind, because it takes off a little bit of the pressure. 15:02.000 --> 15:04.000 Additionally, there's the whole competitive angle. 15:04.000 --> 15:08.000 And so in, at Carnegie Mellon University and then, other places 15:09.000 --> 15:12.000 I've lived as well, I've done a little bit of competitive ballroom dancing. 15:12.000 --> 15:17.000 And side note, I don't know if you found this in your research, Peter, but, 15:17.000 --> 15:21.000 I actually met my husband doing ballroom dancing at Carnegie Mellon University. 15:21.000 --> 15:24.000 No way. I clearly didn't do enough research. 15:24.000 --> 15:26.000 I would have found that if I had kept digging. 15:26.000 --> 15:29.000 But, yeah, I would have found that, on the Carnegie 15:29.000 --> 15:34.000 Mellon dance ballroom dance team and, the rest is history. 15:34.000 --> 15:38.000 We became partners, started dancing together, and, it's really sweet. 15:38.000 --> 15:39.000 Yeah. 15:39.000 --> 15:41.000 We've been married for seven years now, and so it's great. 15:41.000 --> 15:43.000 I have a built in dance partner. 15:43.000 --> 15:54.000 So as we, as we wrap this up, I really want to you to, to talk a bit about your work with the National Federation of the Blind and, and you mentioned that kind of the ballroom, you know, doing some, some dance classes. 15:54.000 --> 15:56.000 I know I've seen that on agendas. 15:56.000 --> 15:58.000 I've been too embarrassed and scared. I haven't gone downstairs. 15:58.000 --> 15:59.000 You'll have to join us. 15:59.000 --> 16:01.000 We might be doing it this year. 16:01.000 --> 16:03.000 I will be there. 16:03.000 --> 16:04.000 I will hold you to it. 16:04.000 --> 16:07.000 I'll find you at the exhibit hall now. You're in trouble, Peter. 16:07.000 --> 16:10.000 You're going to do it now. We want to report back now. 16:10.000 --> 16:13.000 I'm easy to find at those conventions. 16:13.000 --> 16:14.000 But can you talk a bit? 16:14.000 --> 16:17.000 So you're the president of the Performing Arts division? 16:17.000 --> 16:19.000 Can you talk a bit about, 16:21.000 --> 16:22.000 I guess, yeah. 16:22.000 --> 16:24.000 You know, just where that started. 16:24.000 --> 16:27.000 I mean, we do so much work at HumanWare with the NFB. 16:27.000 --> 16:29.000 I mean, we sponsor the scholarships. 16:29.000 --> 16:32.000 And you were a former scholarship winner. 16:32.000 --> 16:33.000 We do lots of things. 16:33.000 --> 16:37.000 Everything down to the, you know, yearly donor, matching campaigns. 16:37.000 --> 16:42.000 We do quite a bit of support to local, state level, you know, chapter conventions. 16:42.000 --> 16:44.000 We do a lot of things. 16:44.000 --> 17:05.000 We are supporters of and partners, on projects like the Monarch and going back to the Victor Reader Stream and all sorts of things at HumanWare but from from that standpoint, can you talk a bit about your work there as the president and maybe some things you're you're doing or what you've done and maybe how you're going to kind of push all that forward as we go through 2025 and beyond. 17:06.000 --> 17:07.000 Sure. Yeah. 17:07.000 --> 17:10.000 So like you mentioned, I was a scholarship winner way back in 2014. 17:10.000 --> 17:13.000 And that's how I really got involved with the National Federation of the Blind. 17:13.000 --> 17:19.000 Like, I had grown up hearing about it, but my mom had read Future Reflections, the parent magazine. 17:19.000 --> 17:20.000 Off and on. 17:20.000 --> 17:23.000 It's I grew up with a very positive blindness philosophy, as one might say. 17:23.000 --> 17:29.000 And knowing that I could, you know, reach for my goals and not let blindness be an obstacle. 17:29.000 --> 17:33.000 If I, you know, wanted to try something, I should go for it. 17:33.000 --> 17:35.000 And so I had a positive outlook. 17:35.000 --> 17:43.000 But when I became a part of the federation in 2014, it was really exciting to meet, you know, literally several thousand other people who were experiencing similar things. 17:43.000 --> 17:45.000 I had never been in a group of so many blind people before. 17:45.000 --> 17:46.000 It was amazing. 17:46.000 --> 17:54.000 So I did I jumped right in and joined the Performing Arts Division board that year and have been on it ever since and became president. 17:54.000 --> 17:57.000 I think it was in 2020. 17:57.000 --> 18:17.000 And so I, I love that we get to really work on just raising expectations for blind people in the entertainment industry, whether as, you know, a professional or a hobbyist, whether in music, dance, acting, whatever it is, we want to encourage, both blind people and sighted people in, in the performing arts that blind people can, be performers as well. 18:17.000 --> 18:22.000 We can compete with our sighted counterparts in whatever career or hobby we want to do. 18:22.000 --> 18:35.000 And, you know, like I was talking about with dance, it might just take some alternative techniques and adaptations, maybe a little patience on the part of, several people. But, there are wonderful ways that blind people be involved with performing arts. 18:36.000 --> 18:41.000 And, and that should not be a barrier to, reaching for your dreams, if that's what you want to do. 18:41.000 --> 18:43.000 Let's see. What am I excited about for 2025? 18:43.000 --> 18:47.000 We do have our own podcast, so we can share, among each other. 18:47.000 --> 18:50.000 Oh, plug it, plug it, plug it. 18:50.000 --> 18:51.000 We have. Yeah. 18:51.000 --> 18:55.000 Our podcast is called Scene Change. 18:55.000 --> 18:58.000 And definitely check us out. We've got about 45 episodes. 18:58.000 --> 19:03.000 Everything from talking to blind comedians to aerial silks, artists to blind ballet. 19:03.000 --> 19:07.000 Whatever you're interested in, we may have an episode about it. So. 19:07.000 --> 19:09.000 So check it out. We want it to be a resource. 19:09.000 --> 19:15.000 We also recently finally put up a, a new resource called the Blind Performer Fact Sheet. 19:15.000 --> 19:17.000 And it is, it lives on the web. 19:17.000 --> 19:24.000 I think the hope I'm going to get this URL right, but you can even go to our website, you know, at and find it nfb.org. 19:24.000 --> 19:26.000 And it's a wonderful fact sheet. 19:26.000 --> 19:34.000 It's a fairly comprehensive list of ideas for adaptations, alternative techniques that you could use as a blind performer to achieve your goals. 19:34.000 --> 19:42.000 So whether you want to be a dancer, hey, maybe, some of the things I mentioned, make sure that you're getting verbal instruction, make sure you can feel the instructor's feet if that's helpful for you. 19:42.000 --> 19:47.000 If you're acting, maybe you have some tactile tape on the stage that marks your spot where you need to stand. 19:47.000 --> 19:49.000 So it's not just visual, it's also tactile. 19:49.000 --> 19:55.000 Maybe you're, you know, using that sound cue of where the speakers are, where the orchestra is to, to know where the front of the stage is. 19:55.000 --> 20:01.000 So different things like that, to just give you ideas so you don't have to reinvent the wheel and say, how on earth am I going to play in an orchestra? 20:01.000 --> 20:05.000 How on earth am I going to, you know, act on, on screen? 20:05.000 --> 20:08.000 And so, yeah, we just want it to be it's a free resource. 20:08.000 --> 20:10.000 Anyone can go find it. And use it. 20:10.000 --> 20:14.000 There's a PDF, or, sorry, an HTML version and, Word version. 20:14.000 --> 20:25.000 So you can even download it and, you know, use that, maybe even hand it to a director, edit it, make it your own and say, hey, these are some things that have worked for me. It take that into an audition if you're a blind performer. 20:25.000 --> 20:28.000 Well, Katelyn, thank you so much for for talking with us. 20:28.000 --> 20:31.000 And you're going to stick around for another another segment or two. 20:31.000 --> 20:33.000 It's just it's been so neat. 20:33.000 --> 20:35.000 Really neat to hear about. 20:35.000 --> 20:38.000 I could I have so many questions, I really do. 20:38.000 --> 20:41.000 And so I might have to do some something else at some point. 20:41.000 --> 20:42.000 Thank you tremendously. 20:42.000 --> 20:46.000 And we're going to be right back with some more with Katelyn McIntyre. 20:48.000 --> 20:55.000 Welcome back to another segment here on See Things Differently with HumanWare. the podcast and this is our hot take piece. 20:55.000 --> 20:57.000 And Katelyn is kind enough to join us. 20:57.000 --> 20:59.000 Continue to be here with us. 20:59.000 --> 21:00.000 We haven't driven her away. 21:00.000 --> 21:06.000 She actually wanted to leave I, we had to we had to, like, call her, convince her to come back. Not. We didn't have to do that. 21:06.000 --> 21:17.000 But we're glad Katelyn has stuck around and we want to talk a bit about and and again, the whole point of this segment is to talk about a topic. 21:17.000 --> 21:25.000 We don't we don't need to be highly controversial, but just talk about something where we may have differing opinions on how and when we handle, certain facets of blindness. 21:25.000 --> 21:39.000 And in this piece, you know, I want to touch on disability disclosure and when and how or when we feel comfortable and you're all going everyone out there is going to feel differently about how or when you disclose their disability. 21:39.000 --> 21:42.000 Primarily thinking about this through a job application side of things. 21:43.000 --> 21:52.000 Katelyn, as a performer, you know, even myself, I mean, sometimes it comes down to, you know, when we're needing someone to do something in our house, when do we disclose their disability? 21:52.000 --> 21:53.000 How do we do it? 21:53.000 --> 21:56.000 And how what are our thoughts? 21:56.000 --> 22:02.000 And I have the, the floor, so I'll kind of kick it off to say that personally, 22:03.000 --> 22:07.000 I usually let it be known that I am totally blind. 22:07.000 --> 22:16.000 I don't often, you know, even and I've, I've had several job interviews where I've gotten that out of the way rather quickly. 22:16.000 --> 22:23.000 I have absolutely had that serve as a, as a reason for not continuing with more interviews. 22:23.000 --> 22:26.000 And I know that, and that's a bummer, but 22:26.000 --> 22:30.000 I feel comfortable enough and I'm confident enough to disclose. 22:30.000 --> 22:42.000 But I've also had times where I wish I would have been more, you know, have been able to be more present with the disability in terms of someone will come to the door, somebody will come to do something. 22:42.000 --> 22:47.000 And if I'm not ready with my cane at that moment, they just think I'm a clueless person. 22:47.000 --> 22:49.000 This happened a couple of weeks ago. 22:49.000 --> 22:54.000 You know, where somebody is coming and trying to deliver pizza, and I didn't even know they were there. 22:54.000 --> 22:58.000 I thought they were a few steps or feet away, and I. 22:58.000 --> 23:01.000 I almost wiped them out on my front step. 23:01.000 --> 23:04.000 I'm just curious for all of us here. 23:04.000 --> 23:09.000 And we'll start with you, Katelyn, do you disclose your blindness? 23:09.000 --> 23:18.000 I mean, people, I guess at this point might know some something as they kind of know who you are and as you have notoriety and kind of you do all these neat things. But what are your thoughts on that? 23:18.000 --> 23:20.000 How do you disclose when you disclose? 23:20.000 --> 23:23.000 And has it been something that you've maybe changed over time? 23:23.000 --> 23:26.000 Or sometimes you do or don't? 23:26.000 --> 23:38.000 I am a cane user and so generally I disclose just by the nature of the fact that I have my cane with me, and if I'm walking into a space, people are going to see that and see, oh, she has this cane. Okay. Is that a blindness cane? Okay. Yeah. 23:38.000 --> 23:39.000 It's just, you know, probably blind. 23:39.000 --> 23:44.000 So if it's somewhere where I am physically present, walking into the space, 23:44.000 --> 23:47.000 I have my cane, which is, you know, 99.9% of the time. 23:47.000 --> 23:52.000 I will disclose this because otherwise I feel like it'd be awkward if I didn't say anything sometimes. Right. 23:52.000 --> 23:54.000 You know, it's if I if I leave it, it becomes the elephant in the room. 23:54.000 --> 23:59.000 Whereas if I say, hey, I'm blind, you might have, you know, can you show me where I'm signing the paper? 23:59.000 --> 24:01.000 Do you mind if I, take a seat here. 24:01.000 --> 24:02.000 Is this available? 24:02.000 --> 24:04.000 You know, whatever it is, I just kind of get it out of the way sometimes. 24:04.000 --> 24:06.000 Loosens that tension. 24:06.000 --> 24:28.000 The only time I would say I haven't really disclosed this early is, in our lovely, you know, last few years, since the pandemic, with Zoom and other conferencing services, being online and even with video, I may not, you know, people may not realize that I'm when I've been in, you know, I don't know, maybe a Bible study or something that I've been meeting with these people for several months and all of a sudden I'll drop something or being blind and I'm like, wait, what? 24:28.000 --> 24:29.000 You're you know, you're blind. 24:29.000 --> 24:32.000 So, Oh, yeah, I guess I never mentioned that. 24:32.000 --> 24:34.000 And in that case, you know, it is kind of nice sometimes. 24:34.000 --> 24:41.000 Not to disclose it in those situations, but, for me, for jobs as a performer, they're going to find out pretty quick. 24:41.000 --> 24:43.000 I'm going to need some accommodations. 24:43.000 --> 24:47.000 I'm going to need some adaptations, maybe, in the choreography or in the, in the blocking. 24:47.000 --> 24:52.000 And so I just figure I want to get it out of the way and get the elephant, you know, out of the room. 24:52.000 --> 25:02.000 I definitely know that there are there are certainly people who, specially on the job interview front who will not disclose, you know, and will say, look, 25:02.000 --> 25:05.000 I mean, it has no impact on the job that I'm going to perform. 25:06.000 --> 25:09.000 And I totally respect and understand that. 25:09.000 --> 25:20.000 And I think though I, I then personally, I, I couldn't do it only because I know that I am you know, my blind is it's not it's not going to define me but it is, you know, part of who I am. 25:20.000 --> 25:24.000 It's probably the last thing you'll remember, but it certainly is something that you're going to have to encounter. 25:24.000 --> 25:26.000 And so I tend to kind of bring it forward. 25:26.000 --> 25:34.000 But I know that there is definitely, you know, a group of folks who will say, no, we don't, you know, it's not right to disclose. 25:34.000 --> 25:39.000 There's no reason to it has no bearing on the job or the work that I'm that I'm going to be doing. 25:39.000 --> 25:51.000 It's funny because I disclose all the time, particularly when I'm competition in karate, because two things happen to me if I don't say anything, people end up running into me, or I run into them and they go, watch where you're going. 25:51.000 --> 25:52.000 That's number one. Number two. 25:53.000 --> 26:02.000 And I don't know visually if this is correct, but because I use a white cane, if people aren't looking at it properly, it can actually be seen as a bow or a weapon. 26:03.000 --> 26:10.000 So I got in trouble for one day from a black belt saying, yeah, you're not allowed to walk around outside of the mat with that bow, don't you? 26:10.000 --> 26:11.000 And I went, 26:11.000 --> 26:14.000 And I went, oh, sorry, this is a white cane. 26:14.000 --> 26:14.000 I'm a blind person. 26:14.000 --> 26:16.000 Hello, pleased to meet you 26:16.000 --> 26:18.000 And they went, oh, terribly sorry. 26:18.000 --> 26:21.000 Just at first glance it looked like a bow staff. 26:21.000 --> 26:22.000 Whoops. So, yeah. 26:22.000 --> 26:26.000 So particularly for competition, I always make sure that I, you know, 26:26.000 --> 26:28.000 I can't say blind as a bat, blah, blah, blah. 26:28.000 --> 26:29.000 What do you want to call me? 26:29.000 --> 26:30.000 Absolutely fine. 26:30.000 --> 26:33.000 But just be aware that I will not be able to see you when you move. 26:33.000 --> 26:42.000 I don't disclose with Uber Eats and I've definitely had situations where and this was, when I lived back in my previous location. 26:42.000 --> 26:44.000 I'll walk outside, meet the driver. 26:44.000 --> 26:48.000 They think it couldn't possibly be a blind person who's ordering food, so I don't know how long. 26:48.000 --> 26:53.000 We've probably stood there for like five minutes until they're like, Rachel? 26:53.000 --> 26:56.000 Yes? Did you order food? I sure did. 26:57.000 --> 27:00.000 Blind people get hungry too 27:01.000 --> 27:03.000 Blind people need to eat too! 27:03.000 --> 27:12.000 Yeah, I, I've told I live on a fire lane, as you know, Rachel, where it's like you don't really drive down it, you know, and, it's just a disaster to get food here, and I and I believe 27:12.000 --> 27:15.000 I order food like, twice a week, and it's a disaster. 27:18.000 --> 27:26.000 This really goes extremely well into our cringe moments, because I've had lots over the last long, long, long, long time. 27:26.000 --> 27:28.000 And I'm sure everybody else is so Peter. 27:28.000 --> 27:32.000 You can take it away and you can start with your- actually, no, no, no, I can. 27:32.000 --> 27:35.000 Let's make Rachel go first with her first cringe moment. 27:35.000 --> 27:38.000 Let's do it. I am ready for this one. 27:38.000 --> 27:49.000 So this cringe moment is brought to you by the overly helpful citizens that we have all encountered in various environments. 27:49.000 --> 27:52.000 Now, I'm going to start at the airport. 27:52.000 --> 27:57.000 I travel a lot for my work as David and Peter and even Katelyn. 27:57.000 --> 28:04.000 You've certainly had your travels, and as we go around, we find various ways that work for us. 28:04.000 --> 28:21.000 In terms of travel, I tend to travel pretty light with just my carry ons, with my technology and backpack and things, and it seems to never fail that when I request assistance, not a wheelchair, anything, they tend to send a wheelchair and that's usually fine. 28:21.000 --> 28:24.000 You can kind of say, hey, thank you for bringing this, but I don't need it. 28:25.000 --> 28:33.000 The interesting part comes when they decide you do need it, that they tend to know your needs better than you know your own. 28:33.000 --> 28:38.000 And I've definitely mentioned to the person say, I really don't. 28:38.000 --> 28:40.000 And they say, oh, but I have to take this chair. 28:40.000 --> 28:42.000 Why don't you just sit down? It will be faster. 28:42.000 --> 28:43.000 I say. 28:43.000 --> 28:47.000 Usually, no, I think I can walk faster than you can push this chair. 28:47.000 --> 28:53.000 And I have put my bags in the chair and I'm sure they've gotten some very interesting looks. 28:53.000 --> 28:56.000 Yeah, this is my move. Put the bags in the char 28:56.000 --> 28:57.000 We can use that. 28:57.000 --> 28:59.000 You can take that chair. I'll put my suitcase on it. Exactly. 28:59.000 --> 29:02.000 And then you don't have to roll it, but you can roll it in the chair. 29:02.000 --> 29:09.000 So that's how I tend to deal with overly, helpful and wheelchair insisting airport personnel. 29:09.000 --> 29:12.000 Yeah, I'll touch on this. I was doing some. 29:12.000 --> 29:16.000 And in the theme in the motif, that's for you, Katelyn. 29:16.000 --> 29:19.000 The motif of overly zealous or hopeful folks. 29:19.000 --> 29:22.000 And again, usually well-meaning, good intentions, but just 29:23.000 --> 29:32.000 I was doing some capturing of intersections and doing some recording of different things and testing out some StellarTrek accuracy. 29:32.000 --> 29:35.000 StellarTrek, a HumanWare product, of course. 29:35.000 --> 29:40.000 And there was somebody who followed me, and I'm talking, 29:40.000 --> 29:47.000 I don't know where this person was supposed to be, and this, this, this person was clearly like they had somewhere to be. 29:47.000 --> 29:49.000 They were they were working in the universe. 29:49.000 --> 29:52.000 I live near the University of Illinois at Chicago. 29:52.000 --> 29:57.000 This person followed me for like three different intersections and just kept wanting to help me cross the streets. 29:57.000 --> 30:00.000 And it became clear that I wasn't there to cross the street. 30:00.000 --> 30:02.000 I was trying to cross all four streets. 30:02.000 --> 30:09.000 I was going in a big circle, essentially, and I just kept saying, I'm good. 30:09.000 --> 30:11.000 I've got this, you know, I'm all right. 30:11.000 --> 30:12.000 Thank you so much. 30:12.000 --> 30:14.000 Finally, it was like, I hope you have an awesome weekend. 30:14.000 --> 30:15.000 That was just like that. 30:15.000 --> 30:16.000 I was the first. 30:16.000 --> 30:19.000 And still I'm like, I just hope it's a great day, you know? 30:19.000 --> 30:24.000 But and there are times where I'll take this help and I'll say, you know, somebody's being overly nice. 30:24.000 --> 30:27.000 I will let them help me, simply because I will probably never see them again. 30:27.000 --> 30:29.000 And they and they will feel good for helping me, even though I don't need it. 30:30.000 --> 30:31.000 I'm never one to be adamant. 30:31.000 --> 30:34.000 Like, please don't. I've got this. Go away. 30:35.000 --> 30:35.000 I won't do that. 30:35.000 --> 30:43.000 But there are times where it's just, I don't I mean, it's so hard because you want to just say, please let me do some informed discovery here. 30:43.000 --> 30:46.000 I mean, let me learn about this space. 30:46.000 --> 30:47.000 I'm sure you've had some of this, Katelyn. 30:47.000 --> 30:47.000 Right? 30:47.000 --> 30:50.000 Like people just wanting to. 30:50.000 --> 30:52.000 Oh, they just they're, like, overbearing. 30:52.000 --> 30:53.000 Oh, yeah. 30:53.000 --> 30:56.000 Well, it made me think of what actually related to performing arts. 30:56.000 --> 31:09.000 So what are the things I was mentioning a little bit earlier about, stage, you know, stage layouts and people having this irrational fear that I'm going to fall off the stage, which I, you know, I know it's happened to people over the years. 31:09.000 --> 31:12.000 It's not to say that it could never happen. 31:12.000 --> 31:15.000 But I've thankfully, I've never, fallen off a stage. 31:15.000 --> 31:17.000 I almost fell off a riser once, but I survived. 31:17.000 --> 31:22.000 I think it's happened, but I think a lot of times it has nothing to do with blindness. 31:22.000 --> 31:24.000 Exactly. Totally, totally. 31:24.000 --> 31:32.000 And so I, you know, one time this person was so concerned over like this, this one step up to the stage and they but my mom was actually there. 31:32.000 --> 31:34.000 And so of course they were talking to her. Not to me. 31:34.000 --> 31:35.000 Because, you know, that's another thing people do. 31:35.000 --> 31:39.000 But she was she was saying, oh yeah, okay, it'll be fine, you know? 31:39.000 --> 31:43.000 And the person was like, oh, well, but is it going to be okay? 31:43.000 --> 31:45.000 You know, she's going to fall. No, no, she'll be fine. 31:45.000 --> 31:45.000 Okay. 31:45.000 --> 31:48.000 Because she has a sixth sense, right? 31:48.000 --> 31:50.000 She, she has a sixth sense. So so that's why she'll be fine, right. 31:50.000 --> 31:52.000 Oh. Cringeworthy. 31:52.000 --> 31:54.000 My mom was just like, at that point. 31:54.000 --> 31:57.000 Yes, yes, she'll be fine, you know, because it's like, what do you say to. 31:57.000 --> 32:03.000 No, I do not have a sixth sense, you know, I am I have the same senses as you. 32:03.000 --> 32:10.000 But anyway, so I it's those, those very well-meaning people who are just overly concerned for our safety. 32:10.000 --> 32:11.000 And we're going to be just fine. 32:11.000 --> 32:14.000 Well, we this segment is always interesting. 32:14.000 --> 32:27.000 I think we'll have we'll we will never have a shortage of pieces of info to talk on the cringeworthy, part of this podcast, because and again, it is not to say that, these are situations that are bad or wrong. 32:27.000 --> 32:30.000 I mean, last time we talked about having stains on your clothing and what? 32:30.000 --> 32:32.000 You know, what do you want to be told or how do you. 32:32.000 --> 32:35.000 And so there's always these things and there's no right or wrong answers. 32:35.000 --> 32:39.000 But I think it's great to shed some light on, some of this. 32:39.000 --> 32:54.000 And I will say to anyone out there is this, please just address the person you want to talk to unless you're told not to, or it's that, you know, if there's a, you know, somehow you're informed, that you don't, shouldn't or don't need to talk to the person that you want to talk to. 32:54.000 --> 32:55.000 You just speak to us. 32:55.000 --> 32:58.000 It's, it's a very simple thing, and I think it. 32:58.000 --> 33:01.000 But it goes it just comes up time and time again. 33:01.000 --> 33:06.000 Remember, we will have Katelyn's bio in the show notes, as well as ways to follow her on social media. 33:06.000 --> 33:07.000 Please reach out. 33:07.000 --> 33:08.000 We want to hear from you. 33:08.000 --> 33:19.000 I've already received some great feedback from those of you who have listened to the first episode or two, so please send us a note podcast@humanware.com . 33:19.000 --> 33:19.000 We'll be right back. 33:22.000 --> 33:29.000 Welcome back to the Tips and Tricks segment of See Things Differently with HumanWareand this month with the Low Vision team, 33:29.000 --> 33:36.000 I'm joined by our Humanware's own product manager for Low vision, Roger Steinberg. 33:36.000 --> 33:37.000 How's it going, Roger? 33:37.000 --> 33:40.000 Peter I'm just trying to stay warm. 33:40.000 --> 33:42.000 Yeah, I think we all are. 33:42.000 --> 33:45.000 It's. It's cold. 33:45.000 --> 33:46.000 Welcome to February. 33:46.000 --> 33:49.000 Unless for that, for all of our friends listening in Australia. 33:49.000 --> 33:51.000 They're not cold but good for them. 33:51.000 --> 33:52.000 Yeah, exactly. 33:52.000 --> 33:55.000 Now. But, Yeah, I've had enough already. 33:55.000 --> 34:00.000 So we're going to talk a bit about some low vision tips and tricks and a lot of this. I'm totally blind. 34:00.000 --> 34:07.000 And so, you know, I hear these things and I think for for many of us, even if you're newer to vision loss, you hear certain terms and just wonder what does that mean? 34:08.000 --> 34:11.000 And this comes up often, and I want to be able to kind of let 34:11.000 --> 34:20.000 Roger talk about what some of a couple of key terms that he deals with and that we hear about from time to time, just to simplify what those terms mean. 34:20.000 --> 34:24.000 And the first one I want to start with is going to be optical versus digital zoom. 34:24.000 --> 34:29.000 So Roger, can you touch a bit on what are the differences between optical versus digital zoom. 34:29.000 --> 34:30.000 What does it really mean. 34:30.000 --> 34:33.000 Yeah, I think it can be really confusing to folks. 34:33.000 --> 34:41.000 And you know, unless you're involved in this on a day to day basis, you could be confused by this, very easily. 34:41.000 --> 34:45.000 But, optical zoom is going to be what 34:45.000 --> 34:50.000 Well, certain people of my age would be familiar with this, but it's going to be a physical lens. 34:50.000 --> 35:06.000 So you think about the old hand magnifier that you would use, or the lenses that are used in photography for, for high level photography, like you see at sporting events or in nature to capture birds of flight and so forth. 35:06.000 --> 35:09.000 So using a physical lens. 35:09.000 --> 35:15.000 And the nice thing about that is there's no degradation of what you're seeing, although they do have their limits as to how far you can go at times. 35:15.000 --> 35:32.000 Whereas digital zoom, almost all of us are using this now because we're walking around with cell phones in our pockets and you're using a digital device, and that's taking an image and turning it into, bits and pieces that you can see on the screen, which are called pixels. 35:32.000 --> 35:40.000 But this means that as you increase your magnification level, you can get, some pixelation happen to what you're looking at. 35:40.000 --> 35:51.000 The nice thing is it allows you to go to higher levels, but, you do get that, sort of somewhat of a degradation of what you're looking at, if you will, as you go to higher levels of zoom. 35:51.000 --> 35:54.000 So we like to do combinations of those. 35:54.000 --> 36:08.000 Are there products that we have at HumanWare I know that we, we have a wide range of low vision devices that you manage what which which of our products would utilize either digital or the optical zoom or both to where do we fit in so well? 36:08.000 --> 36:15.000 We use optical zoom in our Reveal16 and Reveal16i which are our larger magnification devices 36:16.000 --> 36:22.000 We classify those as transportable, because they can be folded up and carried around. 36:22.000 --> 36:25.000 But they run about 16 inches in size. 36:25.000 --> 36:32.000 And then, of course, we use digital zoom in our Explore line, which we have a 5 inch, an 8 inch and a 12 inch model. 36:32.000 --> 36:41.000 And, we also use, digital zoom, a good bit in our Prodigi software because we're utilizing, document cameras when we're using that. 36:42.000 --> 36:48.000 But again, the knowledge of the two allows you to understand, you know, what you're working with. 36:49.000 --> 36:53.000 And in a device like the reveal 16, where we combine the two. 36:53.000 --> 37:02.000 So you have, some optical zoom, and then we cut it over to a digital zoom that helps you understand, what you're going to achieve by using the device. 37:02.000 --> 37:04.000 So that's why it's important. 37:04.000 --> 37:07.000 And that digital zoom does allow you to get that more compact size. 37:07.000 --> 37:11.000 So you have something that can help you out wherever you may find yourself. 37:11.000 --> 37:17.000 Again, going back to the idea of your cell phone, you know, it's got the smaller screen. 37:17.000 --> 37:20.000 It's very compact, but it is using digital zoom all the time. 37:20.000 --> 37:27.000 And just to throw it in there, we do have an Explore Magnifier app that you can throw on your cell phones, either, your Google phones or your iPhones out there. 37:27.000 --> 37:28.000 Love it. 37:28.000 --> 37:39.000 And another one that comes up a lot that I hear, mentioned and certainly have no clue as to deciphering exactly what it means is positive versus negative presentation or can you talk a bit on that? 37:39.000 --> 37:41.000 What does that mean? 37:41.000 --> 37:41.000 Yeah. 37:41.000 --> 37:51.000 So, well, if you think about it, when you're using a magnifier, obviously if this is a handheld, you are just going to see things, as, as they naturally would. 37:51.000 --> 37:58.000 So you got that, you know, handheld magnifier like we grew up with around on the end of a stick that you use to look at things. 37:58.000 --> 38:00.000 You're seeing things in full color. 38:00.000 --> 38:08.000 Likewise, when you're looking through a camera lens, that physical lens, you're seeing everything in full color. Some eye conditions. 38:08.000 --> 38:27.000 It becomes very useful to be able to take away the color and, strip it away, if you will, and come back with an image that is either, full black on white, so black text on a white background or white text on a black background. 38:27.000 --> 38:29.000 So these would be the positive and negative. 38:29.000 --> 38:32.000 So the positive would be black text on a white background. 38:33.000 --> 38:36.000 Negative would be white text or lighter colored text on a black background. 38:37.000 --> 38:39.000 And all of our devices do this. 38:39.000 --> 38:41.000 But understanding what it is can be helpful. 38:41.000 --> 38:42.000 I'm using the example of black and white. 38:42.000 --> 38:46.000 We have a multitude of colors you can choose from to do that inversion. 38:46.000 --> 38:51.000 So you could have a blue on a yellow, yellow on a blue and things like this. 38:51.000 --> 38:52.000 Yeah, yeah. 38:52.000 --> 38:53.000 And I know for some 38:53.000 --> 38:56.000 I think for some of our devices you have like 16 possible combos, right. 38:57.000 --> 39:06.000 Oh yeah. Yeah. 16 in fact, we've added most recently we added white on red and red on white, at the request of our customers. 39:06.000 --> 39:08.000 So, you know, we are listening to the voice of customers. 39:08.000 --> 39:19.000 And again, this becomes something of not just a personal preference, but what do you require to get the best experience, when you're using the device. 39:19.000 --> 39:25.000 And of course, this level of contrast can really improve the readability for individuals with low vision. 39:25.000 --> 39:28.000 So I think of just, can you when shepherd blue on black. 39:28.000 --> 39:31.000 And so I need you to add that even though it would make no sense, 39:31.000 --> 39:34.000 I need you to add that into one of our color combos if you can. Right on. 39:35.000 --> 39:44.000 So the next one here, and kind of the final piece, and this is something I've heard a lot, especially with the with our Explore Magnifier series. 39:44.000 --> 39:46.000 And I don't fully understand this. 39:46.000 --> 39:48.000 This is lines and blinds. 39:48.000 --> 39:52.000 It comes up quite often as a, as a talking point when somebody is giving a presentation. 39:52.000 --> 39:54.000 I always support lines and lines or you change these settings. 39:54.000 --> 40:01.000 What are lines and blinds and how do they help somebody using, you know, a magnification device. 40:01.000 --> 40:01.000 Right. 40:01.000 --> 40:11.000 So again this is terminology that as you start to look into digital magnification you're going to hear these terms thrown around. 40:11.000 --> 40:15.000 So essentially what lines are is like a reading line or a line marker. 40:16.000 --> 40:18.000 They can be horizontal. 40:18.000 --> 40:24.000 Most frequently they are used horizontally, although, we can convert those to a vertical bar, if you will. 40:24.000 --> 40:33.000 But if you for those that, have read books in the past, using a book mark to guide yourself to stay on a line, that's basically what it does. 40:33.000 --> 40:38.000 It just creates a space for you to have one line of text to show at one time. 40:39.000 --> 40:55.000 So this would, you know, remove a lot of visual distraction, some, some eye conditions that becomes clutter, as well as and I should mention that there are times where persons with other forms of, learning disabilities could be using, the tool. 40:55.000 --> 41:06.000 So you could have a visual issue as well as a, attention disorder and being able to focus in on just a line of text at one time can be very helpful in those regards. 41:06.000 --> 41:11.000 There are also eye conditions or conditions where the eye drifts off of a line of text. 41:12.000 --> 41:15.000 And this can keep you on that line of text to maintain that focus. 41:16.000 --> 41:18.000 Blinds are very simple. 41:18.000 --> 41:25.000 But they are a little bit larger, area, but they block off a, an area of surrounding text. 41:25.000 --> 41:32.000 So you want to think of this as sort of like a teleprompter view, where only the text to read is shown, typically a line at a time. 41:32.000 --> 41:40.000 But again, it's just another mode of sort of, driving the focus of what you're looking at. 41:40.000 --> 41:48.000 So having both to choose from is really helpful so that the individual can choose which one reduces any visual clutter they might be experiencing. 41:48.000 --> 41:54.000 You know, to what they need to have the best experience possible when they're using a device. 41:54.000 --> 41:56.000 Love it. Well, thank you so much, Roger. 41:56.000 --> 41:57.000 This is super helpful. 41:57.000 --> 42:00.000 And again, I as someone you know, I'm totally blind. 42:00.000 --> 42:06.000 Or if somebody kind of hears a lot of these terms or sifts through different things, it can be a bit hard to, to understand. 42:06.000 --> 42:09.000 And I appreciate just having some clarity. 42:09.000 --> 42:16.000 And thanks for joining our Tips and Tricks segment for the second episode of Seeing Things Differently with HumanWare. Thanks Peter, I love it. 42:16.000 --> 42:19.000 I can't wait to do it again. Rock and roll. Take care 42:20.000 --> 42:24.000 And welcome back everybody to the Partner Corner. 42:24.000 --> 42:27.000 And this month as it is Low Vision Awareness Month, 42:28.000 --> 42:39.000 I have a friend of mine and actually somebody who is another HumanWare distributor who is low vision and runs a business that sells and deals with a lot of low vision equipment, both HumanWare and other product lines. 42:40.000 --> 42:42.000 His name is Sloan Morris. 42:42.000 --> 42:44.000 How's it going? Sloan? How are you? 42:44.000 --> 42:45.000 Great Peter. 42:45.000 --> 42:46.000 Thanks for having me. 42:46.000 --> 42:47.000 Oh, I'm glad you're here. 42:47.000 --> 42:50.000 It's a happy, nice and freezing cold afternoon where we are. 42:50.000 --> 42:52.000 We're both in Illinois, and it's cold. Cold? 42:52.000 --> 42:54.000 Yes, it is, but for our friends listening in Australia. 42:54.000 --> 42:55.000 I mentioned this earlier. 42:55.000 --> 42:57.000 It's not cold. 42:57.000 --> 42:58.000 And, I wish it was summer here, but. 42:58.000 --> 43:00.000 Well, you know, soon enough. 43:00.000 --> 43:04.000 Sloan, you are someone who- 43:04.000 --> 43:05.000 I mean, you are lovers and yourself. 43:05.000 --> 43:09.000 And you run a business called Innovative Vision Products. 43:09.000 --> 43:15.000 Can you talk a bit about how or you know, how you started in this field, or was it because of your vision loss? 43:15.000 --> 43:20.000 Or, you know what, what got you into kind of running this- running the company? 43:20.000 --> 43:23.000 You do? Yeah, it definitely was because of my vision loss. 43:23.000 --> 43:26.000 Started first notice when I was losing my vision. 43:26.000 --> 43:31.000 I was nine years old, and, was in mainstream business. 43:31.000 --> 43:34.000 Most of my life working, doing the corporate thing. 43:34.000 --> 43:38.000 And then, I had thought that, you know, 43:38.000 --> 43:42.000 I would really like to do something different outside of the corporate world. 43:43.000 --> 43:52.000 And I thought it would be great if I could be in business, but also help people and just being able to help other people that had vision loss was kind of a natural fit. 43:52.000 --> 44:00.000 I've used assistive technology since I was 15 years old, and so, and I know how much it benefited me in my day to day life. 44:00.000 --> 44:06.000 So I thought, you know, there's a lot of people that do not know about all the options that are available to them. 44:06.000 --> 44:08.000 So, that's what got me started. 44:08.000 --> 44:11.000 And so in 2004, I started Innovative Vision Products. 44:11.000 --> 44:35.000 And, you know, what we do is we go around and work with people, both individuals and agencies, institutions, you name it, and really just try to help them find solutions that will make their daily lives or their work life or anything, much easier than, people that are struggling with low vision because a lot of them, you know, are new to low vision. 44:35.000 --> 44:36.000 It's not something they've had all their life. 44:36.000 --> 44:45.000 So the changeover from being fully sighted to having a vision impairment is, can be quite daunting for a lot of individuals. 44:47.000 --> 44:54.000 Do you think it's easier for you to relate to your potential customers because you have a visual impairment yourself? 44:54.000 --> 44:58.000 I was kind of, you know, I mean, I'm totally blind and I definitely have a bit of rapport. 44:58.000 --> 45:04.000 More so than others who might, you know, might be sighted and working in the space. And not that they can't develop that. 45:04.000 --> 45:14.000 But do you find yourself doing a lot of almost, you know, counseling or, you know, working with, with somebody through a situation as much as you do demonstrating or talking about a product? 45:15.000 --> 45:17.000 Definitely, definitely. That's a lot of it. 45:17.000 --> 45:19.000 Because I go in there, you know, when I'm going in there, 45:19.000 --> 45:32.000 I want to make sure that they're better off when I leave there, whether it be, giving them some tips and tricks for living with low vision or coming up with a device that, will make their life a lot easier. Working with them. 45:32.000 --> 45:34.000 You know, a lot of times I have to. 45:34.000 --> 45:35.000 It gives me instant credibility. 45:35.000 --> 45:41.000 I'll say that once they know that I've walked in their shoes, then, you know, the edge. 45:41.000 --> 45:44.000 If they head up like, oh, what's this guy doing in my house? 45:44.000 --> 45:46.000 Or what's he coming here to sell me? 45:46.000 --> 45:53.000 Once we get that established, that I've used the products as well and depend on them, it gives us instant credibility. 45:53.000 --> 45:57.000 The one thing I do have to remember is, I'm there to solve their vision problems. 45:57.000 --> 46:01.000 Or just because maybe a certain device doesn't help me with my vision condition. 46:02.000 --> 46:06.000 They may benefit from it, you know, a lot more than I would have. 46:06.000 --> 46:10.000 So, I have to remember, you know, they're the ones that, they're trying to help. 46:10.000 --> 46:11.000 Because sometimes I think. 46:11.000 --> 46:14.000 Oh, well, I don't see too well at this one, but I see better this one. 46:14.000 --> 46:20.000 Well, I need to make sure I know that they are, finding the right device that's going to help them, you know? 46:20.000 --> 46:26.000 So I usually ask them, you know, what do you think of 8 or 10 things you struggle with day in, day out? 46:27.000 --> 46:34.000 And I tell them, you know, we're not going to find a device that meets every single need, but we should be able to find a device that meets 80% of those needs. 46:35.000 --> 46:41.000 And, you can go on from there, and it should make your life a lot easier and give you back some independence. 46:41.000 --> 46:51.000 Yeah. And I guess for yourself, are there, do you have an absolute I mean, a device you use consistently, not only just in your personal life, but something to run on a daily basis. 46:51.000 --> 46:55.000 Do you have a driver, a daily driver of technology that you kind of use? 46:55.000 --> 46:56.000 All the time? 46:56.000 --> 47:01.000 Are you using lots of different things, or do you just kind of use one computer and that's about it? 47:01.000 --> 47:04.000 I am definitely going with the toolbox approach. 47:04.000 --> 47:08.000 So I have multiple things depending on what I need and being in the industry. 47:08.000 --> 47:11.000 I guess I'm a little bit spoiled because I have access to all of those. 47:11.000 --> 47:14.000 But yeah. We were together last week 47:14.000 --> 47:16.000 I'm going to get to use that StellarTrek all the time. 47:16.000 --> 47:22.000 Yeah, that that'll be great, because the more and more I find a need for that. 47:22.000 --> 47:30.000 But, now I go, you know, I've, I've started using a CCTV, you know, closed circuit television, as people call them. 47:30.000 --> 47:31.000 Video magnifiers. 47:31.000 --> 47:33.000 We call them nowadays when I was 15. 47:33.000 --> 47:35.000 So that's quite a while ago. 47:35.000 --> 47:36.000 And I. That's kind of a crutch. 47:36.000 --> 47:44.000 I still have on my desk, but, as my vision, you know, gets a little worse each year, I'm not quite as effective on that. 47:44.000 --> 47:47.000 So I have gone to more speech. 47:47.000 --> 48:00.000 So while on my computer I use, Fusion, which is, you know, both gives me low vision and speech output and then on my, you know, and then I have a phone that I go to that, 48:00.000 --> 48:14.000 I Voiceover on my iPhone, so but then a lot of other things because what has happened is what is so great about technology now is it's gotten so much smaller and so much easier to use. 48:14.000 --> 48:19.000 You know, anything from the portable magnifiers like the Explore line of products 48:20.000 --> 48:34.000 Just makes it a lot easier to have things at, at my side and that I can just grab and, you know, and for some people, especially when they're new to low vision, they're a little apprehensive about having a device that looks out of the ordinary. 48:34.000 --> 48:37.000 But other devices now just look like an iPad. 48:37.000 --> 48:40.000 And, and people don't stick out, especially for kids in school. 48:41.000 --> 48:45.000 They don't really want to use something that's going to make them any different than their classmates. 48:45.000 --> 48:52.000 But they pull out, you know, like an Explore 8 or Explore 12, and it looks like they're just on an iPad. 48:52.000 --> 48:54.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's absolutely right. 48:54.000 --> 49:02.000 And coming from myself, I was I was using all kinds of crazy, crazy looking Braille devices or big braillers and things. 49:02.000 --> 49:12.000 And now today, to have even, even Braille devices fitting that where you don't just kind of stand out, it's a big, big difference, from where we were even a few years ago. 49:12.000 --> 49:14.000 Can I ask you one other thing? 49:14.000 --> 49:20.000 Before we wrap this up, you have done and I and I, I think this is important. 49:20.000 --> 49:24.000 You, you know, you've done some support groups and things over the years I know of. 49:24.000 --> 49:28.000 And, yes, you're very local to the Illinois sort of distribution network here. 49:28.000 --> 49:30.000 And for us, you're a big partner here. 49:30.000 --> 49:37.000 But do you still do much of that or and I think it's important for people to know that, that there are low vision support groups. 49:37.000 --> 49:39.000 There are support groups out there. 49:39.000 --> 49:44.000 Can you talk a little bit about what your role was or is in those kinds of spaces? 49:44.000 --> 49:47.000 Because I know they exist in different all over the world, really? Yes. 49:47.000 --> 49:56.000 I truly enjoy getting up and speaking with people about, coping and living with, you know, low vision and, vision impairments. 49:56.000 --> 50:09.000 I think it's important when people go to a support group that they realize, you know, they're there to learn and try to grow and cope and not there just to complain about their vision condition. 50:09.000 --> 50:22.000 Because if you get, you know, too many of those people in the group, it really drags the group down as hard to move forward with helping everybody, grow in their knowledge of, you know, just living with low vision and how best to live their daily lives. 50:22.000 --> 50:31.000 So, I enjoy that and I enjoy sharing my experiences with other people, and they tend to open up and share their experiences as well. 50:31.000 --> 50:40.000 And then we just kind of talk about, you know, how they work through that situation, how best to handle it going forward. 50:40.000 --> 50:51.000 And I, and I relate to them that, you know, most people we encounter, a lot of them have never met somebody else that has, a vision condition that can't be corrected with glasses. 50:51.000 --> 50:56.000 And so they really don't know how to interact with us sometimes. 50:56.000 --> 51:02.000 And I tell them, you know, they get their cues of how we handle our own condition ourselves. 51:02.000 --> 51:08.000 So if we come and have an edge to us and say, well, don't ask me about my vision, I don't want to talk about it. 51:08.000 --> 51:09.000 Well, that puts them on edge. 51:09.000 --> 51:14.000 Once we're able to cope with our condition ourselves, they will take our lead. 51:14.000 --> 51:27.000 So if we say, you know, this is my, you know, I have trouble seeing distance or I have trouble, reading if it's not magnified, then they get their cues from us and they get they learn to cope with it. 51:27.000 --> 51:29.000 And and I know there are lots of groups out there. 51:29.000 --> 51:31.000 I just wanted to touch on that because you are a great resource. 51:31.000 --> 51:40.000 I think, for people who are newer to vision loss, than just, you know, have that have that, have that good, that good experience, that lived experience. 51:40.000 --> 51:42.000 So thanks so much for joining. 51:42.000 --> 51:50.000 And I know this was very quick, but can you tell us where, tell the listeners where they can find more about your company and, and, you know, 51:51.000 --> 51:54.000 I guess just how they might be able to get in touch with you. 51:54.000 --> 51:57.000 If they do go to your website, is there an email or anything you want to provide there? 51:57.000 --> 51:59.000 And we'll put this in the show notes as well. 51:59.000 --> 52:09.000 The best way to reach me would be on our website, which is, innovativeVisionPro.com and I represent, products just in the state of Illinois. 52:09.000 --> 52:14.000 So if you need other people, there's, definitely other people that can get in touch with. Rock and roll! 52:14.000 --> 52:16.000 Thanks, Sloan. Thank you. 52:18.000 --> 52:24.000 Welcome back to the final piece of this, which is the upcoming show segment where it will tell you where you can find us. 52:25.000 --> 52:27.000 Should you want to stop by our booth and say hi. 52:27.000 --> 52:31.000 Thanks to all of you who came out to ATIA in Orlando amongst our other shows. 52:32.000 --> 52:36.000 We are going to be at the Phoenix AER Conference on March 7th. 52:36.000 --> 52:38.000 That'll be in Phoenix, Arizona. 52:38.000 --> 52:50.000 We will be at the CSUN Conference, one of the biggest at conferences, you know, concerning North America at least, that will be taking place from the 10th to the 14th of March in Anaheim, California. 52:50.000 --> 52:58.000 And then we will be at the NFB of California conference from the 14th to the 16th of March. 52:58.000 --> 53:00.000 Please come find us. Come say hi. 53:00.000 --> 53:04.000 It could be a mix of representatives or find our distributors. 53:04.000 --> 53:07.000 Certainly we have a large network of those, as you have heard. 53:07.000 --> 53:09.000 So we will see you when we do. 53:09.000 --> 53:14.000 And thank you again to Katelyn for stopping by for David and Rachel. 53:14.000 --> 53:18.000 This is Peter saying we'll see you on the third Thursday of April. 53:18.000 --> 53:19.000 Thanks all. 53:19.000 --> 53:22.000 If you have comments or suggestions, we'd love to hear from you. 53:23.000 --> 53:26.000 Please send them to podcas@humanware.com. 53:26.000 --> 53:29.000 That's podcast@humanware.com. 53:29.000 --> 53:30.000 We'll see you next month!