Can we talk about the gift of tongues? This totally just came to my mind. Um, is it all just other languages? Like, I suddenly can speak Farsi and I'm doing it, or is some of it. This ain't language of angels or whatever. And, and what is your experience with this and your thoughts about this? Because I've heard both sides of this thing.
Oh, yeah, you're taking me there.
Oh, I'm sorry.
No, I'm just kidding. It's good, it's good, it's good. I always just have some fun with this. I just have some fun with this because you know how people get around this topic. So, first of all, before I answer this, let me just say that no matter what you believe, dear listener and dear Luke, I love you regardless. And I believe that the holy spirit and his gifts are there to bring us together. That's literally one of the points. So if we use them to divide, it's just like missing the point completely. So I have a lot of honor and respect for all viewpoints on this, but I'll just share what I think. Okay. Look at the fruit first. What I'll say is, if you're evaluating this topic, look at the fruit. If someone is talking and teaching to you about it, look at the fruit of their lives. Ask the question. If they're teaching you about the gift of tongues in an authoritative way, are they practicing it in any way, or is there a congregation practicing it? I mean, if they're not gifted, is there anyone in their congregation that believes the same theology they do that is gifted and that is practicing it? We know that the gifts are for today. So a healthy fellowship. Paul said, I speak in tongues more than all of you. Paul said, do not forbid anyone to speak in tongues. So speaking in tongues is very much alive. In the first century, like, this was a relatively common occurrence. Paul even had to bring in a protocol for the Church of Corinth because they were doing it, like, so much that they were missing order, right? So their issue was not like, well, is this for today anymore? Paul could have told them, hey, all the stuff you're doing is not for today anymore. Or just zip it. Like, this is. No, he's saying, like, hey, you guys need order one at a time. Make sure there's an interpreter in a congregational setting. So either way, like, I just want to show that Paul can teach on tongues, because Paul knows he's got fruit. Like, he's got it happening in his life. The church of Corinth got it happening in their life. So look, for that. If someone is teaching on something, and there is none of that happening in their church, nothing about happening anywhere in people who believe that theology, that's probably a red flag. If I told you on healing, but I've got no testimony to tell you ever about that. Like, what do I really have to tell you? If I'm teaching about how to keep the Sabbath but I've never done in my life, it's like, well, you know, so that is. That is quite important. And then. Now let me just get into the question. We see acts two, like you say, they're speaking in tongues. We see they're speaking in these foreign languages. We see that there's other people saying, we hear them speak in our own language. That's earthly languages, obviously. And they are astonished. They're coming to faith. It's a miracle. Cool. I think everyone agrees on that. Just about everyone. Now, Paul goes along and he says, speaks to the church of Corinth, and he writes more about tongues. And he says, the one who speaks in tongues speaks not to men, but to God, for no one understands him, for he speaks mysteries in the spirit. Okay, so that's strange now, because he just said, the one who speaks in his tongue speaks nothing to men but to God, for no one understands him, for he speaks mysteries in the spirit. Well, in acts two, they did speak to men because people did understand. They didn't speak mysteries. They weren't speaking to God. They were speaking to men. Men understood, and men were praising God for it. They got baptized and so on. So there's something that Paul is onto here that is more than meets the eye. And look, this is, all the gifts have different applications. The gift of prophecy. Paul talks about that and says, if the one comes in who's an unbeliever and he hears the mysteries of his own heart exposed by someone who's giving him a word of prophecy, then there is a he falls on his face, he repents, and he sees God is truly in this place because he's a stranger in the congregation, and someone is calling out everything happening in his life. Okay, that's miraculous. But that's not the only role that the gift of prophecy has. There is a role for an unbeliever, how to reach an unbeliever. There's also a gift of prophecy. That's for giving a word to a church, to give the church direction. Okay, my point is just that with each gift, including the gift of tongues, the gift of tongues in acts two was for unbelievers or people who were, you know, still coming in, who weren't baptized at least, and they miraculously saw in their own language and they came to faith. But there's also Paul who now comes and says, the one who speaks in tongue, he's edifying his mind is unfruitful, but he edifies himself. So now there is also a rule for the gift that Paul describes as being edification to us as individuals and edification to one another as fellow believers in the congregational setting, where he says an interpreter is needed. What is an interpreter? Someone who has this spiritual gift of interpretation. There was no spiritual gift of interpretation needed in acts chapter two because they were all speaking in foreign languages that they knew. But Paul says, if you speak in a congregational setting, in tongues, you need an interpreter. So this is different now because this is not a foreign language that people are understanding of some sort. This is a language that is needs a supernatural, spiritual, holy, spirit empowered gift of interpretation in order to discern what is being said. So, yeah, I believe that there is that element as well. I've seen it in my life as well. I've seen miracles come from that exercising of that gift in that way as well. So, yeah, in short, that's what I'll say. I have a teaching for people who want to dive deep in scripture called the speaking in tongues series on our channel.
Two parts, one other. Oh, go ahead.
If you have, I'll just say this on that, on the gift. And this is something that is, I think, a fair criticism. There is a fair criticism that can be given to churches that teach falsehoods regarding tongues like you need. If you don't have speaking in tongues, you're not baptized in the spirit or even you're not saved. Like crazy things like that. Crazy doctrines, unbiblical, dangerous doctrines like that. And then what happens if I told that in my, my church is just saying people are going to comment, they're going to like, start speaking in tongues, they're going to act like they're speaking in tongues because they need to in order to make sure to validate to themselves and everyone else that they're saved or that they have the Holy Spirit. So then it opens the door to all kinds of flashly strange things that aren't an authentic gift because they have to. It's a work of man instead of the sphere of God's moving upon someone.
Okay, I got one more about discipleship like you mentioned. Basically, it seems like what you guys, part of what you're doing is you're helping disciple people in these gifts that they may not know about and helping them learn that. And then my question is, why don't we have other disciples doing this? Like, why isn't this something like my grandfather, who is a believer, should have been speaking in tongues since he was a boy and he should be guiding me and he should be guiding our whole church, but that's not a thing. Pretty much, at least in. I even went to a charismatic, non denominational church growing up, and that wasn't really a big thing. What's going on? Why can we disciple in every other aspect of life but not in the gifts?
There's many, there's a few reasons. One is obviously depending on your circle. Many people, including myself, grew up in a cessationist protestant, say, fellowship. So that by nature is the doctrine that this cannot be for today, there's heresy to believe it. So if you teach us heresy to pray for people to get healed and actually believe it can happen like the way it did in the first entry, then no one in your congregation will ever do that. It's. It's basically a doctrine of unbelief. Like, you're not allowed to believe it. Okay, so that's the one issue. The other issue is that a lot of even people who are in circles who believe in continuationism, that it continues, they. The equipping of the saints has been an issue. That's the discipleship has been an issue about many topics, but especially this one. You know, the, the reasons for that, I mean, it could be varied, but I think a lot of people when they get revealed these things, they try, tend to build a ministry around it and then it becomes their ministry. They don't have a ministry of equipping necessarily. They have a ministry of, say, healing, which that can be great, good. But Christ came to equip as well. So I think just in general in America, discipleship hasn't been a focus. All of our teachings, over 600 now, many of them pertain to the things we've been talking about in more detail, of course, and watch that on our YouTube channel, teachings every week up there. And we also have a book called reigniting spirit and truth that specifically speaks really about what we talked about here. And people can really discover their own spiritual gifts by reading that book and grow in those as well. On a personal level.