WEBVTT 00:02.000 --> 00:05.000 Hello and welcome to the human where See Things Differently podcast. 00:06.000 --> 00:16.000 Each month, join your hosts, Rachel Ramos and David Woodbridge as we bring you engaging interviews from guests, interaction from our one of a kind distribution partners stories that will take you off the beaten path. 00:17.000 --> 00:20.000 Current promos, shows where you can find us and so much more. 00:20.000 --> 00:23.000 So stick around. 00:23.000 --> 00:29.000 Hello everybody, and welcome to episode 15 of See Things Differently. 00:29.000 --> 00:32.000 Where we are into March already. 00:32.000 --> 00:37.000 So I'm not sure how that's happening, but the time is just flying by. 00:37.000 --> 00:40.000 And if you've been listening to us for a little while, you may remember that 00:40.000 --> 00:45.000 March is Onam or Orientation and Mobility month. 00:45.000 --> 00:51.000 So we love to have folks on who talk about either teaching travel or their travel journeys. 00:51.000 --> 01:04.000 And someone who reached out to us, who has an absolutely excellent travel and athletic journey that I'm sure most of us would not dream of having is Dave Wilkinson. 01:04.000 --> 01:09.000 So he is here, and I'm very excited to tell you all about Dave. 01:09.000 --> 01:11.000 Before we let Dave tell us all about Dave. 01:11.000 --> 01:13.000 And I'm with David Woodbridge. 01:13.000 --> 01:16.000 So I am surrounded by all of the Dave's and it is a very, very cool thing. 01:17.000 --> 01:27.000 So Dave Wilkinson, now he is an endurance athlete and adrenaline junkie who pays the bills as a senior digital accessibility analyst for Hilton Hotels. 01:27.000 --> 01:29.000 I stay in Hilton often for my work. 01:29.000 --> 01:31.000 So thanks very much, Dave, for what you do. 01:31.000 --> 01:40.000 Prior to his career at Hilton, Dave helped sales and management positions at several assistive technology companies, including Sylvia's 01:40.000 --> 01:43.000 Human Wear and Freedom Scientific. 01:43.000 --> 01:50.000 Throughout his professional and personal life, Dave has been and is a lifelong advocate for Braille. 01:50.000 --> 01:55.000 Of course, we couldn't be a Human Word podcast without talking about Braille, so that will feature in today's episode as well. 01:56.000 --> 02:14.000 But Dave, who has been blind since birth, has completed three Ironman triathlons, tons of short tier triathlons, over 30 marathons, numerous ultra cycling events, and spend a couple of years racing on cross-country skis. 02:14.000 --> 02:21.000 In 2024, he attempted a race across America, a 3000 mile cycling race across the US. 02:21.000 --> 02:24.000 The race must be finished in a maximum of 12 days. 02:25.000 --> 02:28.000 Dave and his tandem pilot are attempting to race across 02:28.000 --> 02:32.000 America again in 2027, with lots more races before then. 02:32.000 --> 02:41.000 Dave was once described by an exasperated colleague as a good idea, taken a step too far and consider this to be the ultimate compliment. 02:41.000 --> 02:48.000 He is married to an incredibly patient wife and became a grand Dave this past September. Congratulations, Dave. 02:48.000 --> 02:54.000 He can't wait to show his granddaughter the magic and the wonder of this incredible journey. 02:54.000 --> 02:57.000 So as you folks can hear, 02:57.000 --> 03:02.000 Dave is the man who has tons of activity to tell us about. 03:02.000 --> 03:08.000 We'll talk about how the real part of Dave's life is incorporated into his journey. 03:08.000 --> 03:11.000 But Dave, first of all, welcome to the podcast. 03:11.000 --> 03:13.000 We are so excited you're here. 03:13.000 --> 03:15.000 It is wonderful to be here. 03:15.000 --> 03:41.000 And actually we'll start if, we can start by incorporating Braille from the beginning because it plays a crucial role in a lot of this. I, and towards towards the end of 2017, I was in a car crash and I broke two vertebrae in my neck and injured two more and was grumpy and on painkillers and lying around board. 03:41.000 --> 03:47.000 And I was kind of mad that out of all the things that almost killed me, it was someone else's driving that just about succeeded. 03:47.000 --> 03:50.000 Instead of some of the silly things that I'd done over the years. 03:50.000 --> 03:57.000 One of the byproducts of that accident was I was incredibly fortunate. 03:57.000 --> 04:14.000 I, I basically healed and came back with one small exception, which is that I have, small amount of nerve damage in my right hand and my primary reading fingers, my first finger on my right hand. 04:14.000 --> 04:18.000 So reading was a challenge. 04:18.000 --> 04:19.000 Just to, to say the least. 04:19.000 --> 04:25.000 Over the next several months during this period of time, the brilliant was released. 04:25.000 --> 04:30.000 And at that point the brilliant didn't have speech and I needed something where 04:30.000 --> 04:36.000 I couldn't rely on speech as a crutch to regain a lot of my ability to read. 04:36.000 --> 04:43.000 And Don bought me a one of the first brilliant 40, by X series units. 04:44.000 --> 04:48.000 And if you look at it at this point, it's worn down to where it's smooth. 04:48.000 --> 04:50.000 There's no texture to any of the plastic molding or anything. 04:50.000 --> 04:53.000 And at this point it's been used to death. 04:53.000 --> 05:04.000 But we got it so that I basically wasn't allowed to use the stream once I had the brilliant, because I could accomplish anything on the brilliant that I could do on the stream, and it forced me to read it. 05:04.000 --> 05:13.000 So the brilliant and no small part, was a crucial building block in me regaining the ability to read after my car crash. 05:14.000 --> 05:17.000 The other reason that the car crash is important is 05:18.000 --> 05:24.000 I sort of viewed myself as having a cloak of invincibility, and when you break your neck, you tend to lose that cloak of invincibility. 05:24.000 --> 05:32.000 And it irritated me, and I wanted a way to come back and prove that I had come all the way back from this thing, and that I was no worse for wear. 05:33.000 --> 05:36.000 And at a random dinner in Toronto, 05:37.000 --> 05:44.000 I met Diane Bergeron, who had completed an Ironman and who's a, a wonderful lady for anyone out there who knows her. 05:45.000 --> 05:48.000 And she mentioned that she had completed an Ironman. 05:48.000 --> 05:52.000 And I have one of those moments where it was just like, she's not any better shape than I am. 05:52.000 --> 05:55.000 If she can do an Ironman, I can do an Ironman, and by golly, 05:55.000 --> 05:57.000 I'm going to do one. 05:57.000 --> 06:10.000 And the switch was flipped and that's how I got into really endurance athletics and into, you know, all these, you know, ultra sports and that type of stuff that is incredible. 06:10.000 --> 06:16.000 So I love that you met this lady, Diane Bergeron, and you were using your brilliant and living life. 06:16.000 --> 06:23.000 But tell us, what is an Ironman for those who may not know, and then tell us a little bit about the ultra cycling events that you've done. 06:23.000 --> 06:28.000 I mean, those are things that probably folks maybe not have been exposed to before. 06:29.000 --> 06:43.000 And an Ironman triathlon is, and any triathlon is a swim bike and a run there various distances, going anywhere from what is called a sprint triathlon all the way up to Ironman. 06:43.000 --> 06:49.000 And then you can get into there are people that will do Double iron, Mads, etc. but they're, they're out of their minds. 06:49.000 --> 06:55.000 And an Ironman triathlon is a 2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike ride. 06:55.000 --> 07:01.000 And then you finish it off of the marathon, which is 26.2 miles, and you have to complete it in under 17 hours. 07:02.000 --> 07:04.000 So you're you're just spinning. 07:04.000 --> 07:07.000 It's a it's a day of pain. 07:08.000 --> 07:12.000 But at the same time, there's an immense sense of accomplishment that that goes with it. 07:12.000 --> 07:16.000 When, when I got into doing Ironman and when I decided I was going to do one, 07:17.000 --> 07:20.000 I didn't own a tandem bike and I really didn't know how to swim. 07:21.000 --> 07:25.000 So I had a long way to go to figure out how all this was going to work. 07:26.000 --> 07:29.000 So I took swimming lessons and, I mean, 07:29.000 --> 07:33.000 I could keep from drowning, but I wasn't I wasn't be able to swim 2.4 miles. 07:33.000 --> 07:34.000 Right. 07:34.000 --> 07:47.000 And so I, you know, I took swimming lessons and was was lucky enough to land a coach, and a, an Ironman partner, in the same phone call. 07:47.000 --> 07:56.000 I was a guy that I'd run marathons with previously, who at one point competed in Ironman triathlons professionally, which just sounds way too hard. 07:57.000 --> 08:05.000 But he agreed to both, be my coach and to be my, 08:05.000 --> 08:08.000 Ironman partner slash guide. 08:09.000 --> 08:15.000 And we and I did the Louisville Ironman in 2019 and then went on to do a couple more after that. And, 08:17.000 --> 08:19.000 I did a lot of half halves along the half 08:19.000 --> 08:22.000 Ironman along the way and, and shorter triathlons and all this kind of stuff. 08:22.000 --> 08:25.000 And at some point you're like, okay, now what's next? 08:25.000 --> 08:25.000 All right. 08:25.000 --> 08:32.000 I've proven that the cloak of invincibility is back and adrenaline junkie ism is back. 08:32.000 --> 08:32.000 That's right. 08:32.000 --> 08:40.000 And when you're swimming for triathlons, if you're a blind swimmer, you're tethered to someone else. 08:41.000 --> 08:52.000 And so my my tether was a wildly scientific, super custom made piece of bungee cord that I chopped off of a roll of bungee cord that I bought from Amazon. 08:55.000 --> 08:58.000 Nothing like a little DIY tether. 08:58.000 --> 09:01.000 Yeah, absolutely. 09:01.000 --> 09:09.000 So. And you're you're we are tethered at the waist, and then I have a second tether, wrapped around my leg in case it comes undone to waste. 09:09.000 --> 09:11.000 I've still got something to. 09:11.000 --> 09:17.000 But when you're jumping into the sea of humanity at the beginning of a triathlon, you lose. 09:17.000 --> 09:19.000 You already can't see. 09:19.000 --> 09:20.000 Your head's underwater, so you can't hear. 09:20.000 --> 09:25.000 You're using this bungee cord to sort of figure out directions and where to go. 09:25.000 --> 09:33.000 And meanwhile you're kicking people in the head and they're kicking you in the head, and it's just a sea of thrashing, flailing humanity. 09:34.000 --> 09:36.000 And it's chaos. 09:36.000 --> 09:43.000 I was finished nude swim with a friend of mine, and we'd finished it up and she was like, you know, I've seen you ride. 09:43.000 --> 09:44.000 You're a good cyclist. 09:44.000 --> 09:46.000 Have you ever thought about doing Race Across America? 09:46.000 --> 09:48.000 And I'm like, I've never heard of this thing. 09:48.000 --> 09:56.000 And she started explaining that it's a 3000 mile cycling race, and it goes from coast to coast across the country, and you've only got a few days to finish it and all this kind of stuff. 09:56.000 --> 10:02.000 And the more she's describing this thing, the more God awful, horrible it sounded, the more it was like, this is for me. 10:04.000 --> 10:07.000 You know, this is this sounds this this sounds ghastly. 10:07.000 --> 10:09.000 Sign me up. 10:09.000 --> 10:17.000 And so I really started to get into ultra cycling events and started with doing 160 mile race, across the state of Indiana. 10:19.000 --> 10:28.000 I've done races in the in the desert, in California, where you're, you're seeing how far you can ride in 24 hours. 10:29.000 --> 10:34.000 I'm going to do another one of those coming up in June outside of Ann Arbor. 10:34.000 --> 10:40.000 So it'll be my first time I've done any significant riding in Michigan, which will be cool. 10:40.000 --> 10:48.000 Later on this summer, probably mid-September, my pilot and I are going to do a couple days riding to the Appalachians. 10:49.000 --> 10:51.000 It's not going to be an official race. 10:51.000 --> 10:57.000 There is an official race that does it, but it's like all I want is the experience. And so we'll save the money. 10:58.000 --> 11:04.000 What I want the Appalachians for is when we do Race Across America on day 8 or 9, we're going to hit those mountains. 11:05.000 --> 11:17.000 And when I start feeling pretty good about life in Kansas and start thinking about this is going to be smooth sailing, I want to remember those mountains, and I want to know what I'm in for, and have an idea of just how hard 11:17.000 --> 11:19.000 I'm going to have to work to get to the finish line to have. 11:19.000 --> 11:37.000 David, one thing I've always wanted, because I have to do like A5K run, what I hate about running around a track, and luckily I can I can do it myself. Is like, if you can see, you can see the fact that, you know, you can see the, you know, the container that you passed last time off in the distance. 11:37.000 --> 11:39.000 You can see the next shaded group of trees. 11:39.000 --> 11:42.000 So what keeps you going in knowing? 11:42.000 --> 11:51.000 Look, I've just passed, you know, the farmhouse that we might have been talking about when we're doing the route or we've just passed over a bridge because you can't see your environment. 11:51.000 --> 11:54.000 How do you get that sense of that? 11:54.000 --> 12:02.000 You are making progress. You're not sort of solidified that you're standing still, but you're not getting any visual representation of you moving forward. 12:02.000 --> 12:06.000 Hopefully this, this, this will be explained in a way that makes sense. 12:06.000 --> 12:09.000 I'm not concerned about the visuals that are around me. 12:09.000 --> 12:11.000 It makes no difference to me. 12:11.000 --> 12:35.000 We could be running through a gorgeous countryside or through some slimy part of, you know, wherever there's a clock in my head and I'm paying attention to that clock and I'm paying attention in something like a, like A5K or a race where you're running, you know, you've got someone at every mile or every X number of kilometers or you know, you've got like aid stations or whatever. 12:35.000 --> 12:38.000 And so at that point you're like, okay, we're halfway now 12:38.000 --> 12:41.000 I start competing, okay, this is how far I've run. 12:41.000 --> 12:44.000 This is what I need to do. If it's going to be decent time. 12:44.000 --> 12:47.000 And I get really hung up on the clock in my head. 12:48.000 --> 12:49.000 If it's a marathon, 12:51.000 --> 12:53.000 I get into album sides. 12:53.000 --> 12:57.000 And what when you start getting closer to the finish, 12:58.000 --> 13:12.000 I know the marathon is almost over when I can think of a and this totally dates me, but when I could think of a double album and if I started playing it right now, by the time I finish listening to it, I'll be at the finish line. 13:12.000 --> 13:16.000 And so as we're going along, you're at mile 2223. 13:16.000 --> 13:19.000 Now you're on side two or you're on side three. 13:21.000 --> 13:25.000 And you know, and you just kind of keep pace in your head. 13:25.000 --> 13:30.000 And the other thing about something like that is other people are are suffering along with you in these longer races. 13:31.000 --> 13:41.000 And so you know where you are because they're constantly reminding you where they are because they would like to be further, as you pass people through. 13:42.000 --> 14:00.000 So but it's it's a really now the other part of your question that, that you didn't ask, is when you're, when you're riding or running in place, 90% of my training is done on a bike trainer in my basement, and I'm riding for hours and hours and hours at a time. 14:01.000 --> 14:09.000 And so you have to find things to keep your brain occupied so that you lose track of all the time that you're putting into it. 14:09.000 --> 14:14.000 And I love sports for that, because sports have a false clock. 14:15.000 --> 14:18.000 In American football, two minutes can last 45 minutes. 14:18.000 --> 14:20.000 That's true. 14:20.000 --> 14:28.000 And and so and so I find it's easy to get caught up in what's happening with the action. 14:28.000 --> 14:31.000 And back when I back when I was running more, 14:31.000 --> 14:52.000 I would listen to baseball games and I would decide that, like the top of the third inning is going to be a hill, and then you don't know if it's going to be three up, three down, or if they're going to have a historic inning that where the team scores 14 runs and then goes on for over an hour, most of being an athlete, really, people always say this, but I really believe it. 14:52.000 --> 14:54.000 A lot of it's mental. 14:54.000 --> 14:58.000 You've got to yes, you've got to gear your brain for it and your body will follow. 14:58.000 --> 15:15.000 A good friend of mine years ago who was trying to get me to do a 100 mile race, told me that if you can run a marathon, you can run 100 miles, that it's all a matter of pacing and slowing down and slowing everything down and just telling your body that it needs you. 15:16.000 --> 15:20.000 Having your mind slow your body down to the point that you can just pace it out and do it. 15:21.000 --> 15:22.000 And I think he's right. 15:22.000 --> 15:29.000 So for those listeners who don't know, before we started recording, we gave Rachel a hard time because we thought, well, I don't know if David for it, but I did it. 15:29.000 --> 15:31.000 I thought, which was just a cake. 15:31.000 --> 15:32.000 But Rachel, I'm going to put you on the spot. 15:32.000 --> 15:35.000 Now, what do you do for exercise? 15:35.000 --> 15:37.000 I'm assuming you don't go for 100 mile runs or anything. 15:38.000 --> 15:44.000 I don't, but I do have a treadmill in my basement, that I use, quite often. 15:44.000 --> 15:45.000 So I'll go for runs. 15:45.000 --> 16:00.000 I'll go for, kind of video workouts that'll take you through, different runs, you know, sometimes interval runs, sometimes split tempo runs, which, you know, you start at one pace, you speed up, and then you end at kind of the same pace that you started at. 16:01.000 --> 16:04.000 I'll do, you know, some weight lifting? 16:04.000 --> 16:07.000 Because it's cardio and running and biking. 16:07.000 --> 16:12.000 Those are wonderful things, you know, for your cardio and you're keeping your muscles strong. 16:12.000 --> 16:15.000 But, Dave, would you agree that doing weightlifting, 16:15.000 --> 16:18.000 I find, is really helpful just in those everyday movements? 16:18.000 --> 16:23.000 My brother, who's a chiropractor, says when you weight, lift and strength train, you're training for life. 16:24.000 --> 16:38.000 Because we're always doing things like bending and lifting and squatting and pulling and pushing and making sure that your muscles can undergo that which sometimes you're pulling heavy boxes or pushing boxes or lifting heavy bags. 16:38.000 --> 16:43.000 And so I, I like to kind of do cardio workouts and strength workouts. 16:44.000 --> 16:47.000 Dave is you're you're a pro athlete here. 16:47.000 --> 16:48.000 What are your thoughts? 16:48.000 --> 16:50.000 I'm so not a pro athlete. 16:50.000 --> 16:51.000 I'm a big fan of strength training. 16:51.000 --> 16:54.000 I have a, you know, I have a universal weight machine in my basement. 16:55.000 --> 17:01.000 One of one of the one of the, 17:01.000 --> 17:08.000 I guess lasting side effects of the car crash is that I don't really trust my right hand for holding, like, a barbell. 17:09.000 --> 17:12.000 It does really well, but on occasion, 17:12.000 --> 17:16.000 I just drop things, and so dead weights are out at this point. 17:16.000 --> 17:19.000 So I bought a universal weight machine. 17:19.000 --> 17:23.000 So that if I let go of it, it's, you know, it just goes back and it's all pulleys and stuff. 17:23.000 --> 17:24.000 But yes, I would totally agree. 17:24.000 --> 17:28.000 The when I, when I do weight training, it's more for tone. 17:28.000 --> 17:30.000 I'm interested in strength. 17:30.000 --> 17:33.000 But I have no no interest in bulking up. 17:33.000 --> 17:36.000 Bulking up almost works against me at this point because I need to be. 17:37.000 --> 17:41.000 You know, the last thing I need is more pounds for me to haul around on this bike. 17:41.000 --> 17:51.000 I'm a huge fan of working out because it engages the mind and engages the body, and it it just gets you up and moving and it's this. 17:51.000 --> 17:57.000 This isn't a shocking revelation to anyone, but as a as a community, we blind people are way too sedentary. 17:59.000 --> 18:01.000 We we don't get up and move. 18:01.000 --> 18:10.000 And there are a lot of reasons for that, a lot of it depending on how you lost your vision, where you live, all that type of, you know, we could go on forever dissecting why that is right. 18:10.000 --> 18:13.000 But the bottom line is that it is. 18:13.000 --> 18:32.000 And for me, lifting, working out whether it's riding, running, rowing, swimming, you know, weights, whatever, keeps me engaged and it it enhances my quality of life or whatever else that I'm doing. 18:32.000 --> 18:40.000 So, you know, if you're if you're someone who spends a lot of time on the couch, you can just start out with little things, like when you're making toast. 18:41.000 --> 18:50.000 When you're standing by the toaster, go up on your feet where you're standing on your toes, and then gradually and then lower yourself back down to where you're standing on your, your feet. 18:50.000 --> 18:54.000 And that, you know, you're, you're, you're working muscles at that point. 18:54.000 --> 18:58.000 So you don't have to start big. 18:59.000 --> 19:03.000 And I think one of the huge mistakes that people make is that they start to think big. 19:03.000 --> 19:05.000 You know, I'm okay. 19:05.000 --> 19:07.000 I'm going to get off the couch and run a marathon. Probably not. 19:09.000 --> 19:14.000 I got to set realistic expectations, you know, and then you go out and you run too. 19:14.000 --> 19:16.000 You run too far, and it hurts. 19:16.000 --> 19:18.000 And you're like, I'm not doing that anymore. 19:18.000 --> 19:24.000 And so you have to break these things up into small, manageable bites and you take one bite at a time. 19:25.000 --> 19:35.000 And I try not to look at the end goal so much when I'm when I'm riding, I'm not thinking, this is for race across 19:35.000 --> 19:39.000 America 14, 15, 16 months from now, whatever, blah blah blah. 19:39.000 --> 19:43.000 I'm thinking in two hours I get to get off this bike and I get to go have dinner. 19:43.000 --> 19:47.000 Dave, I know you've you've done a lot of travel, as David and I do. 19:47.000 --> 19:54.000 And how do you find, you know, that keeping so athletically active, has that helped you in your travels? 19:54.000 --> 19:58.000 Has it helped you in your assistive technology work? 19:58.000 --> 20:01.000 It's it's time for a Dave story. Yeah. 20:02.000 --> 20:03.000 What's a book? 20:03.000 --> 20:17.000 It's doing story time with Chris and Dave and so many, many years ago, while traveling the US and traveling the world, I discovered that precor treadmills that were at Hilton Hotels had tactile buttons. 20:18.000 --> 20:32.000 From that point on, I pretty much insisted that I stayed Hilton brand hotels, whether it was embassy Suites or Hamptons or whatever, because they had the, the, the treadmills and the exercise rooms had tactile buttons. 20:32.000 --> 20:47.000 And so at the end of the day, whether I was in, you know, Stockholm or Des Moines, when I finished my day, I would go and get the people out of my head by running several miles on a treadmill that I was gonna be able to use. 20:48.000 --> 20:54.000 So fast forward that to, 2019. 20:54.000 --> 21:03.000 I was at a conference in Chicago, and it wasn't a particularly interesting conference, and, I really didn't want to be there. 21:03.000 --> 21:06.000 And you know how I mean that it just happens with some of these things. 21:06.000 --> 21:12.000 You're like, I could be home right now, and instead I'm talking to these people who really don't care that much about why that one? 21:13.000 --> 21:14.000 And, Yep. 21:14.000 --> 21:21.000 And the the director of digital accessibility for Hilton, he happened to wander by our booth and she introduced herself. 21:21.000 --> 21:23.000 And it was almost like a Tourette's thing. 21:23.000 --> 21:26.000 I was just like, I love your treadmills. 21:26.000 --> 21:28.000 And she was like, okay. 21:28.000 --> 21:29.000 Hello? Yeah. 21:29.000 --> 21:32.000 And then there's and you're like, oh, I said that out loud. 21:33.000 --> 21:36.000 And she's like, I'll bite. Why? 21:36.000 --> 21:44.000 And that led to a whole series of conversations that ultimately ended up in and me in my current job, at Hilton. 21:44.000 --> 21:50.000 So I got into a field that I knew nothing about as a direct result of tactile buttons on treadmills. 21:50.000 --> 21:53.000 Before we do finish this part, I do want to talk about Race Across 21:53.000 --> 21:59.000 America, a little bit, because it has been my obsession, since early 2023. 21:59.000 --> 22:01.000 And I do want to lay out sort of what's involved in this race. 22:01.000 --> 22:06.000 And, and some of the idea of the, the training, etc., that's behind it. 22:06.000 --> 22:08.000 And then because I'm always into self-promotion, 22:08.000 --> 22:14.000 I want people of people to follow me on Facebook so that I've got bigger numbers that I can get sponsors and pay for this whole thing. 22:15.000 --> 22:22.000 But Race Across America is a most people do this as a relay, which I'm not. 22:22.000 --> 22:24.000 And so is a relay. 22:24.000 --> 22:30.000 You've got different team members, and you hand it off and you're just sort of continuing to move across and they get less time than we do. 22:30.000 --> 22:35.000 I want to do this as a solo entry now to be a solo entry on a tandem bike. 22:35.000 --> 22:38.000 So it's a little bit of a strange bit. 22:38.000 --> 22:40.000 It's like, yes, it's a solo, but there's two of us. 22:40.000 --> 22:50.000 But no blind person has ridden the entire course, which I consider to be a personal affront because tandem bikes are our realm. 22:51.000 --> 22:58.000 And 19 tandem teams have or solo tandem teams have tried this, including me. 22:58.000 --> 23:00.000 Nine of them have made it. 23:00.000 --> 23:06.000 None of them hit a blind person on the back of the tandem, except for my, attempt in 2024. 23:06.000 --> 23:09.000 And so the you get 12 days to finish. 23:11.000 --> 23:17.000 So for those who are doing the math, that means that you've if you rode 250 miles a day, you would finish at the last possible second. 23:18.000 --> 23:21.000 So you're trying to ride closer to 300 miles a day. 23:22.000 --> 23:26.000 My goal is to have an average of about 280. 23:26.000 --> 23:27.000 You're. 23:27.000 --> 23:29.000 So you're sleeping? 23:29.000 --> 23:31.000 Not much. 23:31.000 --> 23:33.000 You're being supported by a crew. 23:33.000 --> 23:36.000 I had a crew of 8 in 2024. 23:37.000 --> 23:41.000 My tandem pilot, Kevin Esser and I were talking about this the other day, and I'm. 23:41.000 --> 23:44.000 He's a new pilot for Ram 2027. 23:46.000 --> 23:48.000 And I'm really excited about it. 23:48.000 --> 23:51.000 He's got an amazing cycling. 23:52.000 --> 23:56.000 Resume, but I think we're going to have we'll probably have a crew of 9 or 10. 23:56.000 --> 23:58.000 They're divided up into shifts. 23:59.000 --> 24:12.000 And you're driving across there, you've got the crew that's on duty, is following you at 15 miles an hour through the deserts, through the Rockies, you know, through Kansas, through whatever. 24:12.000 --> 24:25.000 And they're feeding you, giving, you know, providing water, making sure that we stay on course because some of it, some of the course doesn't have, the best cell service. 24:25.000 --> 24:31.000 And so you're using those old spiral bound map books, and they're literally taking care of us, and we're eating on the bike. 24:31.000 --> 24:33.000 We're we're drinking on the bike. 24:33.000 --> 24:37.000 We're doing just about everything on the bike, because time is of the essence. 24:37.000 --> 24:41.000 You're only going to get to sleep for about four hours, out of the day. 24:42.000 --> 24:44.000 And otherwise you're moving. 24:44.000 --> 24:48.000 So the the crew is, is literally taking care of us. 24:48.000 --> 25:01.000 They're also arranging for things like if we, you know, if, if, if we have any mechanical issues where we need to get something from a bike shop along the way, then whoever's off duty would go through with this happened to us in 24. 25:01.000 --> 25:08.000 We were buying parts from a bike shop in Durango, while I slept for a couple of hours. 25:08.000 --> 25:13.000 And then there, you know, the bike mechanic is making modifications to the bike, and then you hop back on and you keep going. 25:13.000 --> 25:19.000 So it's kind of a small city that is moving across the the country. 25:20.000 --> 25:22.000 It's absolute chaos. 25:22.000 --> 25:28.000 And as as you get further and further along, everyone is getting more exhausted. 25:29.000 --> 25:39.000 My goal is to have my crew have eight hours on, 16 hours off so that they have plenty of rest, because I'm going to be out of my mind at the end of this. 25:40.000 --> 25:43.000 And my pilot is going to be out of his mind at the end of this. 25:44.000 --> 25:52.000 And one of the most crucial things that that the crew does is I've designate someone who has the authority to get me off the bike. 25:52.000 --> 26:03.000 If I become a danger to myself and don't realize it, you know, for whatever period of time that might be, but you get focused on, oh, must keep going, must keep going. 26:03.000 --> 26:09.000 And they're looking at you thinking you look like a zombie from the apocalypse, and you're never going to be able to keep going. 26:09.000 --> 26:12.000 You've got to stop for a few minutes. 26:12.000 --> 26:15.000 And so the crew is an insanely important part of this whole bit. 26:15.000 --> 26:18.000 The race will happen in June of 2027. 26:20.000 --> 26:23.000 And I, 26:23.000 --> 26:27.000 I will turn I won't be 60 in 2027. 26:27.000 --> 26:32.000 And as a gift, because I'm old and decrepit by racing standards, 26:32.000 --> 26:36.000 I get an extra 21 hours to finish this thing, which really excites me. 26:37.000 --> 26:40.000 I'll take those hours and I'll be happy for them. 26:40.000 --> 26:42.000 Dave, that sounds incredible. 26:42.000 --> 26:45.000 Oh, it does, and I'm actually tired of listening to it. 26:47.000 --> 26:53.000 But the sense of accomplishment you must feel once you, once you finish, must be out of this world. 26:53.000 --> 26:56.000 I, I certainly hope to find out. 26:56.000 --> 26:59.000 And in 24, because people are out there thinking what happened? 27:01.000 --> 27:16.000 The very short answer is we indeed as, as as is the case with a lot of dreams and a lot of things that are really important to you the first time you try it, you don't know enough to really have a full plan in place to be able to do it right. 27:16.000 --> 27:20.000 And our our logistics, we fought for a number of reasons. 27:20.000 --> 27:26.000 After about 1200 miles, it was very apparent that we weren't going to be able to finish in the time frame. 27:26.000 --> 27:29.000 And my pilot and I just ran. 27:29.000 --> 27:30.000 We're we're running on fumes. 27:32.000 --> 27:35.000 And so I learned a ton from that experience. 27:35.000 --> 27:40.000 This will be a much more regimented, attempt. 27:40.000 --> 27:46.000 And you decide all kinds of things, like I've already picked out when I'm going to be sleeping every day. 27:46.000 --> 27:52.000 Even though it's months and months from now, somewhere around noon to four, because that's the hottest time of the day. 27:52.000 --> 27:53.000 And so why should I be riding? 27:53.000 --> 28:01.000 You try to to plan this out to the tiniest bit of detail, knowing that you're going to have things happen. 28:01.000 --> 28:15.000 Like our crew van had a flat in the middle of the Painted Desert, and the jack broke when we were trying to to change the tire, and we didn't have cell service, and we were stuck for a couple of hours until we had someone who could, you know, have a jack where we could put the freaking tire on. 28:15.000 --> 28:20.000 So you just you, you, you and and so I learned a ton from that. 28:20.000 --> 28:28.000 The biggest thing being that every second counts because you're going to lose them later on in ways that you haven't figured out yet. 28:28.000 --> 28:37.000 I recently had a thing on ABC radio here in Australia, and it was all about the fact that, you know, can you still do things when you're over 50 or over 60? 28:37.000 --> 28:45.000 And, you know, from my point of view, absolutely, as you can hear from your point of view, hell, you know, if you can ride 3000 miles across America, you can almost do anything. So, 28:46.000 --> 28:50.000 I mean, that's just can be really exciting and it's not just for people that have got a disability. 28:50.000 --> 28:56.000 It's the fact that age three doesn't mean you think, look, if you're mentally okay to do stuff, then I just don't reset it. 28:56.000 --> 28:58.000 People go for it. Don't let age stop you, Dave. 28:58.000 --> 29:06.000 You mentioned, everything that you've gone through to, to prepare, but you also mentioned, you have a Facebook presence. 29:06.000 --> 29:12.000 Of course, we'll put that link in the show notes, but how can people support you from from the sidelines, I guess. 29:12.000 --> 29:22.000 I mean, we obviously all can't be a part of your crew, as amazing as that would be, how can we support you virtually or in person if if we're local to you, what can we do to help you out? 29:22.000 --> 29:25.000 Team speedy turtle races across America pulls our group right up on Facebook. 29:27.000 --> 29:32.000 I'm putting together, and and 29:32.000 --> 29:38.000 I think I'm going to probably give in to peer pressure and set up some sort of like, go fund me or something. 29:38.000 --> 29:41.000 This whole thing has a budget of about 40,000 bucks. 29:42.000 --> 29:47.000 I don't I don't intend to spend 40,000 bucks, nor could I afford to. 29:47.000 --> 29:50.000 So there will be pleas for fundraising coming up. 29:50.000 --> 30:01.000 So everyone out there, if you've got ideas of companies who would love to sponsor six year old blind guy riding across the desert, by all means, put him in touch. 30:01.000 --> 30:03.000 Well, this has been absolutely incredible. 30:03.000 --> 30:12.000 And you're sticking around with us for, a segment next where we're going to talk about kind of the different types of, I think David coined the word athlete. 30:13.000 --> 30:18.000 So I like that athlete thing about, you know, why we choose what we choose. 30:18.000 --> 30:21.000 Or did it choose us. So stick around. 30:23.000 --> 30:31.000 Hey everybody, and welcome to the Hot Topic segment for episode 15, which is Orientation and Mobility Month. 30:31.000 --> 30:39.000 We have been having a great time talking with Dave Wilkinson about his Braille journey and also his athletic journey. 30:39.000 --> 30:45.000 And David, before we started recording, David Woodbridge, that is mentioned something about athletes. 30:45.000 --> 30:53.000 So we want to talk about athletes in this little segment and what type of sport, you know, did it choose you? 30:53.000 --> 30:54.000 Did you choose it. 30:54.000 --> 30:58.000 Was it kind of a combination of the two? 30:59.000 --> 31:01.000 So David, we'll start with you. 31:01.000 --> 31:05.000 And I know you've talked about karate before on the podcast, but let me tell us how you got into it. 31:05.000 --> 31:07.000 How are you, athlete? 31:07.000 --> 31:19.000 I originally got tall when my children started, their own karate journey 15 years ago, that there wasn't any way that a blind person could do karate, because, of course, how could they see what other people were doing on the mat? 31:19.000 --> 31:21.000 How could they move in a certain direction? 31:21.000 --> 31:26.000 They probably get all their angles wrong, and there was always 1001 reasons why it wouldn't have happened. 31:26.000 --> 31:37.000 And then five years ago, when my sons were getting there, I think it was their second or third day and in their black belt, somebody wanted to pass it. 31:37.000 --> 31:44.000 I, by the way, Mister, were you might be interested in the fact that we're doing a grand master's class, and, you're more than welcome to give it a go. 31:44.000 --> 31:48.000 Since your family's been the part of karate for such a long time. 31:48.000 --> 31:50.000 So I rocked up there. 31:50.000 --> 31:57.000 And this all goes to what dad was talking about. Is it's sort of the other side in my. 31:57.000 --> 31:58.000 Because I did my first class. 31:58.000 --> 32:05.000 Now, I always said to my children, if we do something the first time and it doesn't work, don't give up. 32:06.000 --> 32:10.000 The problem is, I didn't listen to my own words because I did the first class. 32:10.000 --> 32:13.000 I couldn't follow what the trainer was saying. 32:13.000 --> 32:16.000 The second trainer was going far too fast. 32:17.000 --> 32:18.000 I wasn't following along. 32:18.000 --> 32:19.000 I was getting really frustrated. 32:19.000 --> 32:22.000 So I walked off the floor and I went to my wife. Right. 32:22.000 --> 32:23.000 That's it. 32:23.000 --> 32:24.000 I'm not doing it. 32:24.000 --> 32:26.000 I knew it wasn't going to work. I'm wasting my time. 32:26.000 --> 32:28.000 I'm feeling like an idiot. 32:28.000 --> 32:30.000 Everybody, everybody's watching me. 32:30.000 --> 32:32.000 And they also probably thinking I'm an idiot. 32:32.000 --> 32:50.000 They're doing better than I am. And then, one of my friends from karate, as another parent, came up and she said, Melinda, what you said to your children when they first started, don't give up on the first go, because if you give up the first guy, you're doing yourself a disservice. Go back. 32:50.000 --> 32:51.000 Give it another go. 32:51.000 --> 32:53.000 And she said, just forget information. 32:53.000 --> 32:56.000 People look worse than what you were doing on the floor. 32:56.000 --> 32:59.000 Like they had really no idea. 32:59.000 --> 33:05.000 At least you being a karate dad, you had some friggin idea when they were talking about backs, stance, forward stance and everything else. 33:06.000 --> 33:08.000 So I did go back and I haven't finished yet. 33:08.000 --> 33:10.000 But David, to me that's one of the important things. 33:10.000 --> 33:22.000 Doesn't matter what type of athletic stuff you do, whether it's, you know, running, swimming, bicycling or anything else, when you start off and give this stuff away for the first time, like you were talking about, don't sit too hard. 33:22.000 --> 33:23.000 It calls for yourself. 33:23.000 --> 33:31.000 But it's also for the fact that, you know, if you give something to go the first time and it doesn't work, don't use it as a reason not to keep going. 33:31.000 --> 33:36.000 Because to me, you're giving up too soon. 33:36.000 --> 33:38.000 You're not giving yourself a chance. 33:38.000 --> 33:42.000 And who gives a crap about what other people think about you? 33:42.000 --> 33:43.000 As long as you want to give it a go? 33:45.000 --> 33:46.000 Then, you know, go for it if you have. 33:46.000 --> 33:53.000 You found that talking to other people that want to get into sports, they're a bit worried about being judged, judged by other people, or 33:54.000 --> 33:55.000 I think they don't get it right the first time. 33:55.000 --> 33:57.000 So it's a disaster. 33:57.000 --> 33:57.000 That sort of stuff. 33:57.000 --> 34:01.000 Yes. And I would fall into that. 34:01.000 --> 34:03.000 I am paranoid about. 34:03.000 --> 34:08.000 And I think a lot of this is, again, you know, not uncommon in Blind World. 34:08.000 --> 34:11.000 We don't know what we look like in the general world. 34:11.000 --> 34:13.000 We don't know. 34:13.000 --> 34:22.000 I mean, we don't even we really don't even know anything about basic body types in the world and how we fit in, when compared to other people, you know, my bigger little or whatever. 34:22.000 --> 34:23.000 Whatever. 34:24.000 --> 34:25.000 We have no idea. 34:25.000 --> 34:36.000 And so, yes, you you have to get over it and I've, I've had issues with anxiety since I was in it since before college. 34:37.000 --> 34:40.000 You know, and just all the rest of it, they go with it. 34:40.000 --> 34:42.000 And at some point you just have to. 34:42.000 --> 34:43.000 Who am I here for? 34:43.000 --> 34:47.000 Am I here so that I mean there? 34:47.000 --> 34:50.000 I'm going to be the guy with the cane no matter what I do. 34:50.000 --> 34:55.000 If I'm going to be the guy with the cane, no matter what I do, that I'm going to do what I want. 34:55.000 --> 34:57.000 That's right. 34:57.000 --> 34:59.000 People are going to notice us whether we want to or not. 34:59.000 --> 35:03.000 So just, yeah, do do what you can do and just be the the best at it. 35:03.000 --> 35:06.000 We're only really competing against ourselves, aren't we? 35:06.000 --> 35:13.000 Like when it comes to sports, I had a walking running partner that told me that one time she's like, don't worry about how fast you go. 35:13.000 --> 35:18.000 I mean, you're really just competing against yourself and do the best that you can, which would help me out a lot. 35:18.000 --> 35:21.000 A lot of the stuff that we do, it karate is all I mean, we keep 35:21.000 --> 35:31.000 I keep getting back to that mental health stuff because, you know, there's I won't do them now, but there's like 12 magical principles of being a karate and then eventually karate blackbelt. 35:31.000 --> 35:42.000 And some of them talk about things like, courage, commitment, you know, self-discipline, indomitable spirit and all that sort of stuff. 35:42.000 --> 35:53.000 And you really do have to keep that in mind when you're training, because if you don't, then you models will stop doing karate, because in karate, there's no such thing as perfection. 35:53.000 --> 35:57.000 It's always trying and doing your best and feeling good about what you do. 35:57.000 --> 35:59.000 So that's what we're always doing about karate. 35:59.000 --> 36:01.000 And like, you know, I, 36:01.000 --> 36:08.000 I see people starting off on their first, you know, their white belt and, you know, quite sort of people are going through the exact same thing that I went through. 36:10.000 --> 36:11.000 And not just being a blind person is now. 36:11.000 --> 36:13.000 It's too hard. I can't remember. 36:13.000 --> 36:18.000 It's like it's no different for me if somebody throws a new color at me. 36:18.000 --> 36:21.000 Okay, yes, I've done a lot more colors in yoga, but I've still got to learn them. 36:21.000 --> 36:24.000 I still get frustrated. I've similar try. 36:24.000 --> 36:26.000 I still feel like giving up, but I keep going. 36:26.000 --> 36:36.000 And that's I think the the main thing that I see karate is a black belt is a white belt that hasn't given up to Dave and David. 36:36.000 --> 36:44.000 Thank you guys so much for your input on this hot topic of athletes and how the sports maybe choose you or you choose it, but 36:44.000 --> 36:48.000 I also like how it's kind of the whole, I guess, holistic approach. 36:48.000 --> 37:02.000 It's not just I'm going to run 50 miles today or I'm going to do lots of katas and sparring, but I'm going to go into it with a mental outlook of, I'm going to complete what I set out to do. 37:02.000 --> 37:08.000 So I really like that no matter what sport you choose, it's going to help you not just physically, but mentally too. 37:08.000 --> 37:15.000 And we've really seen a rise in mental, health becoming very important as we all kind of move through the world. 37:15.000 --> 37:18.000 And I'm glad that sports can be a good outlet for it. 37:20.000 --> 37:24.000 Hey everybody, and welcome to trials, triumphs and Tips and Tricks. 37:24.000 --> 37:30.000 And we have gotten into the cool habit of combining this segment. 37:30.000 --> 37:33.000 And I think we're going to do so again. 37:33.000 --> 37:38.000 David had a great idea for what we want to talk about today. 37:38.000 --> 37:51.000 And so I'm going to throw it over to David to talk about trials, triumphs, tips and tricks because he is so cool that he has combined all of this into one tool. 37:51.000 --> 37:57.000 So I was thinking today, because people might notice my post on social media lately, that I've been doing a lot on the evolve. 37:57.000 --> 38:03.000 So I was looking at windows and I look at the evolve, and I was looking at Nvidia and Jaws and the razor and everything else. 38:03.000 --> 38:08.000 And then of course, you know, today I'm back on my beloved Apple ecosystem. 38:08.000 --> 38:13.000 So my Mac, my AirPods, my iPad, my Apple Watch and so on. 38:14.000 --> 38:25.000 And I was thinking, I am so lucky to realize the fact that if I get stuck on one particular document or one particular website, 38:25.000 --> 38:38.000 I've got a number of tools in my technical toolkit to be able to at least get the content down that I want to produce, or access to information that I want to access. 38:38.000 --> 38:47.000 So, for example, in windows, if somewhat reason, you know, Microsoft Edge doesn't work, I'll go ahead and use Google Chrome. 38:47.000 --> 38:51.000 If Google Chrome doesn't work, I'll go and use Firefox or for some other reason. 38:51.000 --> 38:54.000 If you know Microsoft Word doesn't work, 38:54.000 --> 38:58.000 I'll go in their notes or notepad or some other thing. 38:59.000 --> 39:07.000 And then, you know, as far as scrim is concerned on windows, you know, sometimes Nvidia and Jaws don't tend to work. 39:07.000 --> 39:15.000 So if I want to run another full blown scrimmage or I can run supernova, or I can run, you know. 39:15.000 --> 39:23.000 Narrator. So again, you know, it doesn't mean I really need to know how to use those different screen readers. 39:23.000 --> 39:28.000 As long as I can get content down in the applications on windows, and I need to access. 39:28.000 --> 39:29.000 And that's all good. 39:29.000 --> 39:34.000 And then as far as the max concern, I have exactly the same issue on the Mac. 39:34.000 --> 39:42.000 There are some websites that are fairly ugly with Safari, so I have no idea that not even to bother even going. 39:42.000 --> 39:43.000 We need a safari. 39:43.000 --> 39:47.000 If I'm going to certain websites, I go straight to Google Chrome to use those websites. 39:48.000 --> 39:52.000 If I take a dive into Microsoft Word, that doesn't work. 39:52.000 --> 39:58.000 I can go to my favorite application on the Mac, which is TextEdit, or I can go and use practice, or I can go in use notes. 39:59.000 --> 40:03.000 And of course, the cool thing about notes is that it's across all of the iPhone, 40:03.000 --> 40:06.000 Apple Watch, iPad ecosystem. 40:06.000 --> 40:10.000 The only, I guess, drawback on the Mac, and yes, 40:10.000 --> 40:13.000 I'm going to say, is that we only have one screen reader. 40:13.000 --> 40:18.000 So if voiceover falls over, then you're pretty much in the doghouse as well. 40:19.000 --> 40:20.000 I don't know why I actually think about it. 40:20.000 --> 40:27.000 I don't know why dogs get blamed for being in the doghouse, but that's another philosophical discussion for another day. 40:27.000 --> 40:31.000 But the thing that's the thing of that talk about lateral thinking. 40:31.000 --> 40:36.000 The thing about the, voiceover is that, okay, so fine voiceover stops working on my Mac. 40:36.000 --> 40:37.000 Okay, fine. 40:37.000 --> 40:40.000 I'll go and use my iPhone oregonian's my iPad. 40:40.000 --> 40:41.000 So I've got alternatives. 40:41.000 --> 40:45.000 And then for some odd reason is that just doesn't work on my Mac. 40:45.000 --> 40:48.000 Sometimes I'm doing it on the on the trackpad on the Mac. 40:48.000 --> 40:54.000 Then fine, I'll go and use my iPhone, iPad, or again, use my Bluetooth keyboard. 40:54.000 --> 40:59.000 So again, I'm keeping the flexibility running all the time. 40:59.000 --> 41:14.000 So what I normally say to people is please don't just depend on one application or one website, or one browser in particular, or one word processor, particularly my client. 41:15.000 --> 41:29.000 Just try and have a couple of different solutions, as well as a screen where as long as you have flexibility in your toolkit and not just one device, then you know you'll be able to get things up and running up and up and running. 41:29.000 --> 41:32.000 My goodness, that's good English up and running. 41:32.000 --> 41:34.000 I like that. Yeah. Up and running. 41:34.000 --> 41:39.000 So my AC, I'm not backed into a t shirt thing up and running right up and running. 41:39.000 --> 41:50.000 It's just about being, proactive and learning to problem solve, which I always think is is a great tip which can lead to two more triumphs. 41:50.000 --> 42:03.000 And one I have that isn't, necessarily technically related is I was I went to a sourdough bread making class recently, and it was very cool. 42:03.000 --> 42:14.000 I went with another blind friend of mine, and we, we showed up and the instructor was great, but on the table they had a, physical kind of recipe book and a book of, additional resources. 42:14.000 --> 42:22.000 And I thought, well, this is great, but do I want to take this home and kind of try and scan it with my phone or even the the flatbed scanner I have? 42:22.000 --> 42:27.000 And so using the tool I have in my toolbox, which is advocacy, 42:27.000 --> 42:32.000 I asked the instructor at the end of the class said, hey, are you able to send this to me electronically? 42:32.000 --> 42:34.000 She's like, absolutely no problem. 42:34.000 --> 42:36.000 Send me a message and I'll get that over to you. 42:36.000 --> 42:38.000 And she did. And it was it was great. 42:38.000 --> 42:43.000 So now I have it in a format that I can read easily and without. 42:43.000 --> 42:44.000 Yeah, too. 42:44.000 --> 42:47.000 Too much, song singing and dancing. 42:47.000 --> 42:49.000 So it, it worked out. 42:49.000 --> 42:52.000 So all that to say is use the tools you have at their disposal. 42:52.000 --> 42:55.000 Some of them might be advocacy screen readers, browsers. 42:55.000 --> 42:58.000 However, you need to get it done. Exactly. I see that reminds me. 42:58.000 --> 43:03.000 This is quite a long time ago. Like I'm talking about, 30, 35 years ago. 43:03.000 --> 43:10.000 So I went to a boating, like a boating class because, you know, we had a bite at the time and I wanted to learn some rules. 43:10.000 --> 43:11.000 Anyway, same thing as you. 43:11.000 --> 43:18.000 The painting was there on the desk, and I remember asking the guy at the time, could I have this in, you know, some sort of trolley for my. 43:18.000 --> 43:21.000 Anyway, do you think I'm silly? Might. 43:21.000 --> 43:24.000 I'm not going to give you this document to you because I worked on it so hard. 43:24.000 --> 43:30.000 I don't want you spreading it around for other, other things that you can get access to. And I thought, wow, wow. 43:30.000 --> 43:32.000 So but these days it's much better. 43:32.000 --> 43:34.000 I mean, I've never heard that book at work. 43:34.000 --> 43:47.000 I give you this document because it's top secret or it's, you know, it's one of a kind or I don't want to copyright it, but, when you do advocate for yourself, too, I mean, I was set up here, but, you know, do it in a nice way. 43:47.000 --> 43:50.000 I don't waste, you know, I'm accessible. 43:50.000 --> 43:53.000 You know, I need stuff to be accessible. This is not a prior page. 43:53.000 --> 43:54.000 I don't like it. 43:54.000 --> 44:02.000 I shouldn't have to put up with this work with the person, because most of the time, it doesn't even occur to people to even think about stuff like that. 44:02.000 --> 44:05.000 So don't assume that the person's being horrible and nasty. 44:05.000 --> 44:08.000 Just take it as a bit of an educational opportunity. 44:08.000 --> 44:13.000 So next time that person comes across a blind or low vision person, I go, oh hi. 44:13.000 --> 44:17.000 Last time I had a person in the class, they asked me to put stuff on the trolley format. 44:17.000 --> 44:23.000 I might even upfront ask the person, you know, would you like me to email you the the recipe stuff in this case? 44:23.000 --> 44:25.000 So yeah, I think it's always nice. 44:25.000 --> 44:30.000 So the other thing is you get better results with money than you do with other things. 44:30.000 --> 44:34.000 So yeah, just when you're advocating try to be nice about it. 44:36.000 --> 44:40.000 Hey everybody, and welcome to the upcoming shows segment. 44:40.000 --> 44:45.000 You can find us in many places throughout the month of April starting on April 14th. 44:45.000 --> 44:51.000 You can find us at Site Village Exeter in the UK on April 15th through the 17th. 44:51.000 --> 45:04.000 You can find us at the Pennsylvania, Delaware ADR that's Association for Education and Rehabilitation Professionals conference in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania from April 16th through 18th. 45:04.000 --> 45:08.000 You can find us in Los Angeles at the California Transcribers and Educators Conference. 45:08.000 --> 45:16.000 Lastly, from April 23rd through April 26th, we will be at the NFB of Utah State Convention in Ogden, Utah. 45:16.000 --> 45:21.000 Come join us if you have comments or suggestions, we'd love to hear from you. 45:21.000 --> 45:25.000 Please send them to podcast at Human Wired.com. 45:25.000 --> 45:28.000 That's podcast at human where.com. 45:28.000 --> 45:30.000 Thanks so much for listening to see things differently. 45:30.000 --> 45:32.000 We'll see you next month.