WEBVTT 00:02.000 --> 00:05.000 Hello and welcome to the HumanWare See Things Differently podcast. 00:05.000 --> 00:21.000 Each month, join your hosts Peter Tucic, Rachael Ramos and David Woodbridge as we bring you engaging interviews from guests, interaction from our one of a kind distribution partners, stories that will take you off the beaten path, current promos, shows where you can find us and so much more. 00:21.000 --> 00:24.000 So stick around. 00:24.000 --> 00:30.000 Good morning, good evening, good afternoon, good day, good night, good times, good times David. 00:30.000 --> 00:32.000 Good times Rachel. 00:32.000 --> 00:34.000 Welcome to see things differently with HumanWare. 00:34.000 --> 00:35.000 How's it been? 00:35.000 --> 00:38.000 How's your April going, you guys, as we pre-record this? 00:38.000 --> 00:39.000 Where? It's not even April yet. 00:39.000 --> 00:41.000 Mine's going absolutely spectacularly. 00:41.000 --> 00:50.000 I was going to say something smart today and say all 3480 primary nodes are online and fully functional on the Monarch. 00:50.000 --> 00:52.000 That's a lot of pins. 00:52.000 --> 00:54.000 And you got the number right. 3840. 00:54.000 --> 00:55.000 Look at that. 00:55.000 --> 00:59.000 Rachel, could you have pulled out the exact number of pins on a Monarch at the drop of a hat? 00:59.000 --> 01:00.000 You know, not like that. 01:00.000 --> 01:02.000 So I got to give this to David. 01:02.000 --> 01:05.000 David that was truly champion. 01:05.000 --> 01:08.000 You are the Monarch champion, and I applaud you. 01:08.000 --> 01:08.000 Thank you. 01:11.000 --> 01:17.000 I don't even know how you tied that into an intro with your first sentence of the podcast, talking about the number of pins on a Monarch. 01:18.000 --> 01:25.000 So I hope we'll have 3840 great seconds plus of content here. 01:25.000 --> 01:27.000 I don't know how many minutes that equates to. I haven't divided it up. 01:27.000 --> 01:32.000 A note from your friendly editor 3840 is 64 minutes. 01:32.000 --> 01:38.000 This month we're going to be talking a lot about talking books, about talking products. 01:38.000 --> 01:41.000 So at HumanWare we have a wide array of product and we've talked about 01:41.000 --> 01:47.000 Braille, we've talked about low vision, we've talked about our GPS products. 01:47.000 --> 01:49.000 And this month we're going to talk a lot about our talking solutions. 01:49.000 --> 02:00.000 And we have a number of them, certainly products like the Victor Reader Stream, which are the Victor Reader Stream, is definitely our most well known product and has been for a long time that Victor Reader brand. 02:00.000 --> 02:07.000 But we also, have products like the Odyssey, which are, OCR optical character recognition devices. 02:07.000 --> 02:10.000 And we certainly have other types of talking book players. 02:11.000 --> 02:30.000 And in looking at this and kind of thinking of who can we talk to, who can we talk to to really get a sense of, how we integrate with so many different libraries around the world with our talking products, and we do lots with not just libraries here in the United States, but also in places like Canada and Australia and all over Europe. 02:31.000 --> 02:33.000 But I was, I was racking my brain. 02:33.000 --> 02:41.000 And there is a friend of mine named Scott Norris who has joined us, and Scott is the manager of the talking book library in the state of Michigan. 02:42.000 --> 03:01.000 And Scott is here and is going to talk a bit about what it is like to kind of be in this role because we oftentimes hear about analysts or CNIB or, you know, CELA or Vision Australia, and we know we hear a lot of presentations, but it's really neat to have that sort of librarian or that, that, that manager standpoint. 03:01.000 --> 03:05.000 Not only is Scott part of the library, but Scott is totally blind. 03:05.000 --> 03:08.000 And so I think it's going to be awesome to talk a little bit with Scott. 03:08.000 --> 03:10.000 Scott, how are you doing? What's happening? 03:10.000 --> 03:13.000 Happy, happy April, even though it's still March. 03:14.000 --> 03:19.000 Well, Michigan State University basketball team is in a sweet 16, so that's good. 03:20.000 --> 03:23.000 See, and this is why it's so Scott is based out of Lansing and it- 03:23.000 --> 03:30.000 For anyone who's not familiar with March in the United States it is basketball college basketball crazy. 03:30.000 --> 03:45.000 Can you talk a little bit about, I guess, just about your role, at the National Library Service, just in what kind of services or what it means to you to, to bring and kind of be such a big part of the library in such a big state. 03:45.000 --> 03:47.000 I'll give you just a tad of a background. 03:47.000 --> 03:56.000 I've been up, as Peter said, I'm totally blind and, a Braille reader and the, when 03:56.000 --> 04:04.000 I started with an illness as a patron in 1964, so that was ten. 04:04.000 --> 04:06.000 So if you could do some math, 04:06.000 --> 04:09.000 I'm old. We normally joke about how old David is, Scott. 04:09.000 --> 04:12.000 So this is good, because normally David's on the chopping block here. 04:13.000 --> 04:14.000 Grandmaster. I'll have you know. 04:14.000 --> 04:17.000 Thank you very much. 04:18.000 --> 04:26.000 We provide braille books and audio books to qualified Michigan patrons. 04:26.000 --> 04:40.000 And to qualify for this service, you have to be blind, low vision, have a physical disability that prevents you from holding a book or manipulating the pages, or have a print disability like dyslexia. 04:41.000 --> 04:50.000 And, you know, a physical disability could be somebody- it could be a temporary disability like, oh. 04:50.000 --> 05:00.000 I knew a woman once that, broke both her wrists skiing, you know, she fell and tried to stop herself with her hands and, like I say, broke both of her wrists. 05:00.000 --> 05:03.000 So that was, a fun experience. 05:03.000 --> 05:08.000 Do you find it harder, to kind of keep up with because you do have eight ways. 05:08.000 --> 05:16.000 Some would say eight ways to Sunday, eight ways that you can, you know, not only, you know, receive the book, but you can consume in so many different ways. 05:16.000 --> 05:22.000 Is that hard to keep up with, especially with all the new kind of streaming or sort of On-Demand ways of getting books today? 05:23.000 --> 05:27.000 A little bit, but I'm going to I want to tell you a story first. 05:27.000 --> 05:33.000 This is about when BARD first came out in 2007. 05:33.000 --> 05:35.000 And for those who don't know, BARD is what? 05:35.000 --> 05:38.000 Oh, Braille and audio reading. 05:38.000 --> 05:58.000 This is the website that actually where we get our books from here to put on cartridges and where any of the patrons, Michigan patrons or any patron across the country of NLS can download a book to their computer, their phone, their Braille e-reader, even their smart speaker. 05:58.000 --> 06:06.000 It all comes from BARD. At the same time that the the first edition of this Victor Stream was released. 06:07.000 --> 06:14.000 We got two Streams, one the library bought and one I bought, from the same vendor. 06:15.000 --> 06:26.000 And my wife is sighted and sometimes, she's a little reluctant on some technologies. 06:26.000 --> 06:31.000 So I said, look, this thing is really cool here, look, I downloaded books to it. 06:31.000 --> 06:34.000 I put on, this SD card, and now you can carry this around. 06:34.000 --> 06:37.000 Listen to it. She goes, I don't know if I want to do that. 06:37.000 --> 06:39.000 I said, come on, just check it out. 06:39.000 --> 06:41.000 So sign it. Checks out. 06:41.000 --> 06:44.000 And she says, can I take this to work out? 06:44.000 --> 06:46.000 And I said, yeah, you can go try it. 06:48.000 --> 06:49.000 That's the last time I saw it. 06:49.000 --> 06:51.000 Yeah. 06:51.000 --> 06:54.000 It's, you know, she goes, this is the thing that's great. 06:55.000 --> 06:59.000 So she goes download some more books for me. 07:00.000 --> 07:01.000 I love it too. 07:01.000 --> 07:12.000 I have a friend who, he and his wife are both blind and their sighted, their sighted children who are younger children, will use the The Victor Reader Stream every night when they're going to bed, to to listen to their books. 07:12.000 --> 07:23.000 And it's, you know, I always jokes that they're probably the only kiddos, some of the only kiddos, in this country are going to use screenless devices to put themselves to sleep or, you know, use them anymore. 07:23.000 --> 07:26.000 But that is that is awesome. 07:26.000 --> 07:27.000 That is, you know, and I've heard of multiple. Yeah. 07:27.000 --> 07:41.000 This kind of oh, my, my spouse or my sibling or somebody uses the book when they're driving, you know, and they just hooks it into their, into their car radio or whatever it may be, because the Stream in particular has been such a unique way to access content as a push button. 07:42.000 --> 07:44.000 You know, interface. 07:44.000 --> 07:49.000 And it is one of it's been a mainstay for reading books for so long. 07:49.000 --> 07:50.000 You know what else I have, Peter? 07:50.000 --> 08:02.000 You know, now, the new player's coming out, the new DA2 player come in. HumanWare's had longtime partnerships with many different libraries and National Library Service is certainly no exception. 08:02.000 --> 08:18.000 We were part of the design and kind of, of the first player, and now we're part of the the design of the second or newer DA2 or the digital talking book player, which is think of it as, for those of you out there who are familiar with the Stratus, it's that sort of a desktop player. 08:18.000 --> 08:31.000 This is an NLS iteration of a standalone desktop player that will have Wi-Fi, that has Bluetooth, that certainly, you know, capable of giving you a much louder speaker, an experience. 08:31.000 --> 08:34.000 Bigger buttons, a more a more stationary experience. 08:34.000 --> 08:35.000 And it's a- but it's a way for you to receive 08:35.000 --> 08:38.000 National Library Service books now through Wi-Fi. 08:38.000 --> 08:42.000 Or certainly you could play them with cartridges, but having a, a much bigger unit. 08:42.000 --> 08:45.000 And that's something we've been working on for quite some time. 08:45.000 --> 08:46.000 And now it's out in the open. 08:46.000 --> 08:53.000 And it's we have a lot of folks who are excited, and we do these sorts of partnerships, not just with the National Library Service. 08:53.000 --> 08:59.000 We've had partnerships with libraries in Canada and in many parts of Europe. 08:59.000 --> 09:04.000 We've provided Stratus machines or, you know, for these different libraries. 09:04.000 --> 09:07.000 And certainly, it's been really neat. 09:07.000 --> 09:16.000 And, Rachel, you've been a big part of this with me too, and creating some of the user guide and, and working on the, the second, talking book player for NLS. 09:16.000 --> 09:23.000 And I think it, it, it's neat because as much as we see the smart speaker, we see the new Victor Reader Stream 3. 09:23.000 --> 09:25.000 We you know, we have all these new pieces. 09:25.000 --> 09:27.000 David, I think would be a question for you. 09:27.000 --> 09:38.000 And and as you kind of look at the realities of Australia and you've certainly traveled around, do you what are you seeing in terms of libraries in your side of the world? 09:38.000 --> 09:39.000 Are you seeing this? 09:39.000 --> 09:44.000 We will give you all sorts of ways to access content, or is it still kind of stationary? 09:44.000 --> 09:59.000 You know, the I guess the only thing we really don't have in Australia, which they've got overseas, is the fact that, Vision Australia doesn't have a like an online library system where you can, you know, log in via a smart skill and, you know, get your book and listen to it. 09:59.000 --> 10:04.000 But, you know, Vision Australia does have an iOS app, an Android app. 10:05.000 --> 10:09.000 You can run it, you know, through a web page. 10:09.000 --> 10:12.000 I just like the fact that these days we've got choice. 10:12.000 --> 10:14.000 And particularly for some people, 10:14.000 --> 10:21.000 I absolutely love the Victor Stratus because sometimes the, you know, the Victor Reader Stream has got too many buttons. 10:22.000 --> 10:26.000 And I know on the 4 you can hide it with a mask the buttons that people don't want. 10:26.000 --> 10:29.000 And for some people that's all they need. 10:29.000 --> 10:32.000 They just want a player that can walk in, press a button, hey presto. 10:32.000 --> 10:33.000 They can listen to their book. 10:33.000 --> 10:48.000 So to me, the Stratus is one of those things that I'm really pleased to know that you know, HumanWare and is continuing with NLS, because it's very powerful for people that just don't want to know about technology, but they want to have the fun of reading. 10:48.000 --> 10:48.000 Yeah. 10:48.000 --> 10:55.000 And NLS had a lot of say in, in what they wanted to see and I think the difference, you know, from, from a typical off the shelf 10:55.000 --> 11:00.000 Stratus, if we look at, the, for instance the braille labels. 11:00.000 --> 11:03.000 So Scott, you've, you've seen the, you know, there's braille labels on that device. 11:03.000 --> 11:07.000 On the overlay itself, there are different shaped buttons. 11:07.000 --> 11:14.000 You know, and just it, it is taken quite some time, from inception to as, as any product does this to get it right. 11:14.000 --> 11:21.000 And certainly now, I mean, they'll continue through this year as they start to really roll out this new player. 11:21.000 --> 11:27.000 I think it it cements the fact that we want to continue to provide products, especially in this talking realm. 11:27.000 --> 11:32.000 Most of the users of our talking book products are relatively newer to blindness. 11:32.000 --> 11:46.000 When we talk about that kind of those bigger players, not all, but many, and I'm sure quite a large amount of your patrons are relatively newer to blindness when they come into learning about NLS and books and things. 11:46.000 --> 11:46.000 Is that true? 11:46.000 --> 12:04.000 You know, the, patron population, that are below 60 or 65 and older that have lost their vision and, you know, for some of those people, technology is a real struggle. 12:04.000 --> 12:06.000 You know, they lost their vision. 12:06.000 --> 12:14.000 And that's where their focus is in trying to get them to move them into technology. 12:14.000 --> 12:16.000 Sometimes it's really difficult. 12:16.000 --> 12:22.000 And, you know, technology's like everything else, you know, some people just eat it up and think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. 12:22.000 --> 12:25.000 Yeah. Like David and another people. 12:25.000 --> 12:28.000 Yeah. Look, I don't want to know about any technology. 12:28.000 --> 12:31.000 I just want to get my book in the mail and play the book, and that's all I want to do. Okay, fine. 12:31.000 --> 12:33.000 And we have that option for people. 12:33.000 --> 12:43.000 One thing for me, Peter, too, is that, I mean, I hate the term because it has the word stupid in it, but for me, it's on that constant term that I've grown up with is, you know, keep it simple and stupid. 12:43.000 --> 12:48.000 I just wish we could find another word for stupid, because simplicity does not mean bad. 12:48.000 --> 12:50.000 It doesn't mean I don't function. 12:50.000 --> 12:52.000 It just means it's actually easy to use. 12:52.000 --> 12:53.000 You pick it up, use it. 12:53.000 --> 12:55.000 You don't have to, you know, read the manual or anything else. 12:55.000 --> 12:58.000 You pick it up, turn it on, press a button, and hi presto. 12:58.000 --> 13:04.000 So I'm really glad that, you know, for the innovations that HumanWare has done over the past. 13:04.000 --> 13:10.000 What's that now, 35 years or something that we've kept hold of, that simplicity of our products. 13:10.000 --> 13:13.000 And we haven't lost we haven't gone into the, you know. 13:13.000 --> 13:14.000 Oh, yes. 13:14.000 --> 13:17.000 You've got to have a degree to navigate this device. 13:17.000 --> 13:20.000 We've kept that simplicity with most of our devices, including the Stratus. 13:21.000 --> 13:30.000 Well, and, you know, the other device I was thinking about was the Braille e-reader that, we started sending out. 13:32.000 --> 13:33.000 What was it now? 13:33.000 --> 13:35.000 Almost two years ago? 13:35.000 --> 13:49.000 And, you know, this is a device that has a 20 cell refreshable display on it, so it has, pins that move up and down that create the braille letters. 13:49.000 --> 13:52.000 And then ultimately the words. 13:52.000 --> 13:56.000 But this device also has Wi-Fi on it. 13:56.000 --> 14:08.000 It's got, you can connect it to NLS to Bookshare and to NFB Newsline. 14:08.000 --> 14:11.000 And it functions as a braille display as well with your screen readers. 14:11.000 --> 14:14.000 Right. So your JAWS, your iOS. 14:14.000 --> 14:16.000 And this was something we've been thrilled. 14:16.000 --> 14:18.000 I have been so- 14:18.000 --> 14:21.000 And this is a US, you know, NLS specific product. 14:21.000 --> 14:24.000 And we would love to see this. Certainly. 14:25.000 --> 14:29.000 You know, be successful with, with other libraries. 14:29.000 --> 14:42.000 But the NLS e-reader being able to have a braille display available to any patron, no questions asked, you know, if a patron wants access to a braille display, traditionally a braille display is a very costly, investment. 14:42.000 --> 14:47.000 It's something that isn't necessarily available to anyone, especially not here in the United States. 14:47.000 --> 14:52.000 There certainly are some programs in parts of, of the world that that have made refreshable braille accessible. 14:52.000 --> 15:11.000 But for us, it has been so neat to see the, you know, Braille getting, you know, underneath the fingers of folks who are newer to, newer to blindness, but also folks who, you know, don't have the means to buy a Braille display for personal use. 15:11.000 --> 15:13.000 And, it's a great segue, right? 15:13.000 --> 15:20.000 I mean, I'm glad you brought up because, like, even as much as we're talking about talking books or the access to library, Braille is a huge part of NLS. 15:20.000 --> 15:28.000 From the music catalog to the foreign collection, there is a gigantic Braille BRF offering in hardcopy as well, I believe. 15:28.000 --> 15:30.000 Right. And you can get one book a month in Braille. 15:30.000 --> 15:33.000 Just sent to you. Correct? 15:33.000 --> 15:45.000 Yes. And you can, you know, basically keep that, now, if you if you, we send you a Braille book, then that you have to return. 15:45.000 --> 15:48.000 But this, 15:48.000 --> 15:52.000 Braille book a month from NLS and a yeah, you can, you can basically keep the book. 15:53.000 --> 15:57.000 You know, I'll give an example how useful one of these, Braille e-readers are. 15:58.000 --> 16:06.000 I have a patron up in Port Huron. He, goes to a Bible study class for church. 16:06.000 --> 16:11.000 So he has one of the versions of the Bible in Braille on his e-reader. 16:12.000 --> 16:26.000 And then he creates, questions and comments, and he puts them on the SD card that you can, pop into the back of the Braille e-reader. 16:26.000 --> 16:31.000 And so now he can switch back and forth and, and bookmark his, 16:32.000 --> 16:34.000 Bible verse that they're talking about. 16:34.000 --> 16:36.000 He can read that. 16:36.000 --> 16:49.000 Then he can hop over to his SD card and, read his questions, getting one of the, Braille display for free, is really great. 16:50.000 --> 16:53.000 And, I as one of the two 16:54.000 --> 16:57.000 BARD administrators for the state, 16:58.000 --> 17:00.000 I've seen the, 17:00.000 --> 17:03.000 Braille downloads jump, like, 200%. 17:03.000 --> 17:06.000 Scott, could you go back and maybe talk a little bit about Braille on demand? 17:06.000 --> 17:10.000 I just found out about that last year, and I was so excited. 17:10.000 --> 17:13.000 I have a cooking without looking book. Oh, I love to cook. 17:13.000 --> 17:15.000 And I love to read the recipes. 17:15.000 --> 17:21.000 And, I was wondering if you could tell folks, about that, how they would sign up for that. 17:21.000 --> 17:27.000 Can you get it in different forms, like, uncontracted braille or maybe different braille tables or how that works? 17:27.000 --> 17:30.000 I just think it's a great resource that folks may not know about. 17:30.000 --> 17:45.000 Basically what it is, is you could request a Braille book from NLS one book a month, and, they will produce that book for you and send it to you at no cost. 17:45.000 --> 17:47.000 I have not done that myself. 17:47.000 --> 18:07.000 I know people that have, everything done except for some of that, juvenile books that NLS does is, done in UEB, you know, I was thinking it for something if somebody might want to keep in use over and over again. 18:07.000 --> 18:09.000 And Rachel, you just brought it up. 18:09.000 --> 18:12.000 Cooking without looking or any of our cookbooks. 18:13.000 --> 18:23.000 Well, now I still have my book, my cookbook here, and I can grab my cookbook, flip it open, and, and I'll see what other recipes I can come across. 18:24.000 --> 18:25.000 How does someone request those? 18:25.000 --> 18:29.000 They can call us, and we can we can, do the request process. 18:30.000 --> 18:33.000 So contact your state library to to do that. 18:33.000 --> 18:35.000 There's also a website we can put it in the show notes. 18:35.000 --> 18:37.000 That's how I, I was able to request it. 18:37.000 --> 18:39.000 And you can fill out the the book in your information. 18:39.000 --> 18:42.000 And it shows up at your doorstep a couple days later. 18:42.000 --> 18:44.000 It's a excellent service. 18:44.000 --> 19:01.000 Can I ask a question about as we look to kind of wrap this portion up on what you think of or where you see, I mean, the library going, do you think we'll see some changes in how books and libraries will work in today's world to give content or create content for, or to patrons? 19:01.000 --> 19:05.000 I think what, and this is just Scott Norris's opinion. 19:05.000 --> 19:13.000 I'm not representing myself as an NLS the employee or an expert, but I think what's going to happen? 19:13.000 --> 19:27.000 I think they're going to utilize some of the, either AI or at least some of the voices from Nuance and some of the other companies that and some of those are pretty good. 19:28.000 --> 19:46.000 And, and then, just have them read, read the text, you know, do a- do a text conversion, text to speech conversion and that, you know, that would not take very long, that you could crank books out fairly quickly that way. 19:47.000 --> 20:00.000 And, instead of only 4000 books, you know, you would get 5000 or 6000 or 8000 books in and people would have much more, content to choose from. 20:00.000 --> 20:21.000 And that's, I think, the biggest, stumbling block right now is the time that it takes to, record books, whether it's recorded by a, commercial vendor or one of the NS, contracted, narrators. 20:21.000 --> 20:22.000 It still takes time. 20:22.000 --> 20:26.000 But if you were just, scanning text, you could do that very quickly. 20:27.000 --> 20:43.000 I guess I'm sort of hang on, hang on my head on the text to speech, but, you know, then they then they could produce more esoteric books and, and more nonfiction because we're about, oh, probably two thirds fiction, one third nonfiction. 20:43.000 --> 20:52.000 So we could we can increase our nonfiction catalog that way. 20:52.000 --> 20:55.000 Well, here's to hoping I know all of us on this call. 20:55.000 --> 20:58.000 I think I think we were all voracious readers. 20:58.000 --> 21:00.000 And I know that the more content, the better. Scott. 21:00.000 --> 21:02.000 Thank you tremendously for joining us. 21:02.000 --> 21:04.000 We really appreciate your time. 21:04.000 --> 21:14.000 And, you know, it's been great to to be able to just chat a little bit on the, on the library in the state of really, you know, of NLS and what you're kind of is seeing in the state of Michigan. 21:14.000 --> 21:17.000 And certainly a lot of this can be transposed to libraries around the world. 21:17.000 --> 21:24.000 So again, if you have feedback, please provide it and feel free to send us an email at podcast@humanware.com . 21:24.000 --> 21:26.000 Welcome, Scott. Thank you tremendously. 21:26.000 --> 21:32.000 And I believe you may be sticking around for a second or two with us, but, let's hopefully connect soon. 21:32.000 --> 21:35.000 And thanks for coming on. Oh. You're welcome. My pleasure. 21:37.000 --> 21:41.000 Welcome back, everybody, to the cringeworthy part of the podcast. 21:41.000 --> 21:45.000 And Scott is has been kind enough to stick around for this one. 21:47.000 --> 21:48.000 I love this. 21:48.000 --> 21:50.000 I was thinking about why I'm always, well, what's what's cringeworthy. 21:50.000 --> 21:52.000 And believe me, there are lots of moments in my day. 21:52.000 --> 21:53.000 They're cringeworthy. 21:53.000 --> 21:54.000 Some are related to blindness, some are not. 21:54.000 --> 21:58.000 This one, though we can all relate to, and many of you out there can relate to this. 21:58.000 --> 22:11.000 And Rachel, you and I just attended an extremely crammed, busy, awesome CSUN conference and you were a rock star at the booth having a great time as always, as we tend to do. 22:12.000 --> 22:16.000 But in that I realized something, all the time. 22:16.000 --> 22:28.000 And we had a with a wonderful HumanWare event one evening, a joint event with the American Printing House for the blind and in and whether we were I was at the booth or whether I'm at this event, which is a nice crowded room. 22:28.000 --> 22:39.000 I always have this random time, and I happen several times throughout a conference where somebody I'm talking to and I'm engaged in conversation, and the next thing I know, they're gone, right? 22:39.000 --> 22:41.000 They have they have walked away. 22:41.000 --> 22:55.000 And I think, you know, and it's never intentional, but when what ends up happening is I'm speaking with someone and the next thing I know, I ask them a question or I try to continue the conversation and they're gone. 22:55.000 --> 22:58.000 Rachel, did you have this happen to you at all at CSUN? 22:58.000 --> 23:07.000 I'm sure you've had it happen all the time, but did this happen to you at CSUN, where you're at the booth and someone kind of someone kind of vanishes. You know, that does happen. 23:07.000 --> 23:10.000 You'll be talking to somebody I know I have and will. 23:10.000 --> 23:14.000 I'll just be chattering on about this and that and the products, and I'm really into it. 23:14.000 --> 23:18.000 I'm having a great time and I'm like, so what do you think about X, Y or Z product? 23:19.000 --> 23:23.000 And I get crickets amidst a very busy exhibit hall, but there are still crickets. 23:23.000 --> 23:26.000 And I think, wow, I wonder where in my monologue they left. 23:26.000 --> 23:30.000 I think what I'm, I think what's funny is I guess it's what would we want people to do? 23:30.000 --> 23:33.000 How can we avoid the talking to the empty chair? 23:33.000 --> 23:38.000 Because it is very embarrassing, especially when there's a few other people around and they'll be like, oh, he's not there. 23:38.000 --> 23:47.000 And I'll be like, oh, and usually I'll flip it into a joke like, oh, he's ran away again, or that person is no longer here, haha. But it's interesting. 23:47.000 --> 23:51.000 I think, what would we like, I guess, 23:51.000 --> 23:53.000 Scott, you have what do you think? 23:53.000 --> 23:54.000 Like, have you ever talked to the empty chair? 23:54.000 --> 23:57.000 I've had that happen at conferences. 23:57.000 --> 24:16.000 You know, where you're with colleagues and, you know, it's it might be kind of the end of the day and you're talking to 3 or 4 people, and then, you know, one person leaves and it's and then another person leaves it. 24:16.000 --> 24:24.000 Yeah. And then all of a sudden, so wait a minute, where the heck did everybody go because they don't say, you know, I'll see you later. 24:24.000 --> 24:26.000 A lot of times they just walk away. 24:26.000 --> 24:33.000 I always ask and I can tell when somebody has worked in our space a long time because they'll say, excuse me a second, I'm going to grab this. 24:33.000 --> 24:39.000 Or honestly, I mean, you really know if somebody has been very familiar with this because I will have plenty of sighted colleagues. 24:39.000 --> 24:41.000 Say, Peter, hold on one second. So-and-so just walked in. 24:41.000 --> 24:45.000 I've got to go see them, and I love- I am so informed. 24:45.000 --> 24:47.000 I'm like, do please do go. 24:47.000 --> 24:49.000 Go over there. You don't need to talk to me. 24:49.000 --> 24:52.000 I love when someone will just say, or- 24:52.000 --> 24:57.000 And even if you don't have to say exactly what I love when they say what they're doing, though, because sometimes they'll be like, give me a second. 24:57.000 --> 24:59.000 Then they vanish. And I think, like, where have they gone? 24:59.000 --> 25:00.000 You know, 25:00.000 --> 25:05.000 I love when it when they're a bit descriptive or even just say, I need to get some water, 25:05.000 --> 25:07.000 I have to go to the restroom, whatever it might be. 25:07.000 --> 25:08.000 Holy cow. 25:08.000 --> 25:10.000 The amount of times. 25:10.000 --> 25:16.000 And I love when it's amazing when somebody does give you that information very quickly, just very quickly. 25:16.000 --> 25:17.000 What are the why they're stepping away. 25:17.000 --> 25:26.000 How much more just, you know, how much more normal the conversation is, when you don't have to all of a sudden make a joke about you talking to the empty room. 25:26.000 --> 25:36.000 Actually, what's funny, Peter, I was I was demonstrating the Monarch one day to a group of parliamentarians, and the person behind me actually got the Monarch out. 25:36.000 --> 25:40.000 And as soon as this person saw the Monarch, they just took off towards it. 25:40.000 --> 25:43.000 They didn't say, David, your colleague's got the Monarch out. 25:43.000 --> 25:44.000 I'm just going to go and grab and have a look at it. 25:44.000 --> 25:47.000 They just walked past me and kept going. 25:47.000 --> 25:49.000 And I like we all do. 25:49.000 --> 25:51.000 I just kept talking to thin air. 25:51.000 --> 25:56.000 So. And you're right, I love it when people just see we just tap you on the shoulder or just say quietly, look, 25:56.000 --> 26:05.000 I just saw somebody or I just got to go and grab something and let you know, and it just takes all the stress out of it and you end up not feeling like a third class citizen. 26:05.000 --> 26:10.000 Like it's like this is supposed to be 2025 guys, not, you know, not like the 1800s or something. 26:10.000 --> 26:15.000 So I kinda like, when people just take that little bit of extra time to say, I just need to go. 26:15.000 --> 26:17.000 I'll be back or I'll see you later. 26:17.000 --> 26:24.000 The sighted, the light dependent folks certainly have this complex as well, where they will meet plenty of folks that they can't recall. 26:24.000 --> 26:28.000 And so what I'll often do is even just introducing myself. 26:28.000 --> 26:45.000 I'll say it's Peter, you know, it's Peter Tucic from HumanWare, we talked, you know, last year when I was in for this place or that conference, even I will do that all the time for folks, because I know they probably know who I am, or maybe they know my face or they kind of remember me, but just very quickly giving them a quick something to go on. 26:46.000 --> 26:48.000 You're right, it's awfully helpful. 26:48.000 --> 26:50.000 Especially from the context. 26:50.000 --> 26:59.000 If I met you at a, at a loud aloud party versus at a booth versus at a, you know, a professional meeting, it's going to be quite different in how I'm trying to remember who you are and how I know you. 26:59.000 --> 27:01.000 Thanks so much, Scott, for sticking around. 27:01.000 --> 27:04.000 And we appreciate your time and 27:05.000 --> 27:14.000 I don't know, hopefully, we'll get some good feedback from folks as to what do you do, the, you know, have you ever had somebody just kind of leave you? 27:14.000 --> 27:17.000 There's a there's always a good always creates a good chuckle. 27:17.000 --> 27:24.000 So feel free to email us your thoughts at podcast@humanware.com. 27:25.000 --> 27:27.000 Welcome back everybody. 27:27.000 --> 27:29.000 It's time for the hot take, hot take time. 27:29.000 --> 27:32.000 And this one I think it's pretty obvious right. 27:32.000 --> 27:36.000 We've done usually we kind of throw ourselves our own curveballs. 27:36.000 --> 27:39.000 We talked about Cane versus Guide dog. 27:39.000 --> 27:42.000 We've had some Apple versus Windows discussions. 27:42.000 --> 27:47.000 This one we've been talking libraries and talking products. 27:47.000 --> 27:51.000 And of course that lends itself to why use Braille? 27:52.000 --> 27:54.000 The classic argument, why use Braille? 27:54.000 --> 27:57.000 And this, you know, I feel like about ten years ago, 27:57.000 --> 28:01.000 I was often confronted with a, oh my goodness. 28:01.000 --> 28:04.000 You know, we fear that Braille is going away. 28:04.000 --> 28:07.000 And I'll say, personally, I don't think I hear it as much anymore. 28:07.000 --> 28:19.000 I think that the value of Braille continues to prove itself on the access to Braille is more robust than ever, especially with multi-line devices and just digital devices and having a refreshable devices where we can access large amounts of content. 28:20.000 --> 28:25.000 In Braille, where before we were to have have to, you know, kind of had that put into hardcopy for us. 28:25.000 --> 28:33.000 But David, Rachel, what are your thoughts and some of the arguments, obviously, of why do we need to use Braille? 28:34.000 --> 28:37.000 So and I guess the question would be we have more Braille than ever. 28:37.000 --> 28:39.000 What do we- what do you guys think? 28:39.000 --> 28:42.000 Where do you stand on this? 28:42.000 --> 28:48.000 And for some people who are newer to blindness, who say, well, you know, I can do everything through dictation or through auditory means, 28:48.000 --> 28:49.000 I don't know, what do you think? 28:49.000 --> 28:55.000 What are you hearing? What do you what do you feel? for people who are newer to blindness? 28:55.000 --> 28:57.000 And they say, well, why would I need Braille? 28:57.000 --> 29:00.000 I would say even just for labeling things. 29:00.000 --> 29:03.000 Spices, your medications. 29:03.000 --> 29:07.000 If you just learn the basics of Braille, it'll be so much easier. 29:07.000 --> 29:12.000 You won't have to strain your eyes, and it'll just be faster for you to recognize things. 29:12.000 --> 29:14.000 So that's for newer to blindness. 29:14.000 --> 29:19.000 And then, of course, for those of us who have known Braille for a long time, sure, speech is prevalent. 29:19.000 --> 29:25.000 And Peter and David, I'm sure we use it all day, every day, because sometimes it's faster to just skim through an email real quick. 29:25.000 --> 29:38.000 But if I want to learn how to spell something, or if I'm proofreading something, or if I'm studying something, then I'll use Braille every single time because it's so much easier to comprehend that way for me anyway. 29:38.000 --> 29:40.000 What do you think, David? 29:40.000 --> 29:40.000 Yeah. 29:40.000 --> 29:46.000 Look, I, you know, what's what's at all the sort of science fiction, you know, when the balloon goes up and everything goes dark type thing. 29:46.000 --> 29:59.000 At the end of the day, if your electronics for someone reason and I'm talking about speech here and probably even the electronic devices, if everything goes off line or you're in a blackout or where I was a couple of weeks ago, I had a whole blackout for a whole week. 29:59.000 --> 30:02.000 None of my electronic devices actually worked unless 30:02.000 --> 30:07.000 I went and sat in the car and charged them up, but at the end of the day, I still had my braille slate. 30:07.000 --> 30:10.000 I still had my Perkins brailler. 30:10.000 --> 30:20.000 So in people, you know, we were ringing up and asking, you know, what the, the local support people were doing for, you know, volunteering for the fire brigade and what was happening and so on. 30:20.000 --> 30:25.000 I could still write down my job reference numbers in Braille now, if I hadn't have learned Braille. 30:25.000 --> 30:31.000 And I'm not talking about contracted, but I'm just talking here about, you know, even just basic braille, the alphabet numbers, 30:31.000 --> 30:41.000 I would have been absolutely, you know, down the creek without a paddle because there's no way I could've remembered, you know, about ten different reference numbers and that sort of stuff. 30:41.000 --> 30:46.000 So to me, I sort of cringe a little bit when people who are blind say, 30:46.000 --> 30:50.000 I don't have to learn Braille, because I think it's like a sort of person 30:50.000 --> 30:56.000 I'm not saying, I don't have to learn to handwrite because I use a computer or I use a smartphone. 30:56.000 --> 30:59.000 It's like, well, okay, fine, I'll take all those devices away from you. 30:59.000 --> 31:01.000 How are you going to communicate or how are you going to remember things? 31:01.000 --> 31:04.000 So that to me is the the most important thing. 31:04.000 --> 31:06.000 It's not the fact that you're blind. 31:06.000 --> 31:08.000 Thus you only need to learn braille. 31:08.000 --> 31:11.000 It's your blind and you still need a way to communicate. 31:12.000 --> 31:14.000 If you can't access stuff electronically. 31:14.000 --> 31:21.000 I think even, you know, for us, we all obviously we're very much a Braille centric company and we all have access to Braille. 31:21.000 --> 31:24.000 I mean, and I love that I, I do not take that for granted. 31:24.000 --> 31:31.000 The fact that I, yes, get to, you know, have a BrailleNote or a Brailliant or all of our devices kind of at my disposal. 31:32.000 --> 31:35.000 Even if I didn't work for HumanWare 31:35.000 --> 31:37.000 I know I would still have a Braille display. 31:37.000 --> 31:39.000 Now what? I use it as much. 31:39.000 --> 31:41.000 And I think that's the real question. 31:41.000 --> 31:43.000 Probably not. 31:43.000 --> 31:50.000 I think that when I'm out and about, I probably would not have a Braille display on my shoulder as much as I as I as I do now. 31:50.000 --> 31:54.000 That doesn't mean I wouldn't use Braille when I'm working, but I don't know if I'd have it all the time. 31:54.000 --> 31:55.000 Do you guys feel the same way? 31:55.000 --> 31:59.000 Would you use Braille if you didn't have access to Braille all the time as we do 32:00.000 --> 32:02.000 I mean, let's say you just you had to pick a device. 32:02.000 --> 32:04.000 You know, you're purchasing a device. 32:04.000 --> 32:06.000 Would you use it everywhere you go? 32:06.000 --> 32:07.000 Would you always use it with your phone? 32:07.000 --> 32:11.000 Or would you kind of have it with you and maybe use it 60, 70% of the time? 32:11.000 --> 32:15.000 So if I didn't have access to the plethora of Braille devices, 32:15.000 --> 32:17.000 I do, which is amazing. 32:17.000 --> 32:25.000 I mean, there's a Braille embosser on my desk, which I've recently used to print out lyrics for a little ragtag band that that comes over every Friday. 32:25.000 --> 32:28.000 And- wait a minute, you're going to sing for us? 32:29.000 --> 32:31.000 Absolutely not. Do you hear your glass breaking? 32:32.000 --> 32:35.000 If you're putting out lyrics, you're clearly singing. 32:35.000 --> 32:43.000 Well, it was one of those talking songs like William Shatner, where you're like, as the moon comes up over the sun, how about intergalactic? 32:43.000 --> 32:44.000 Interdimensional? 32:44.000 --> 32:47.000 That's about the extent of my singing is a vocoder. 32:47.000 --> 33:05.000 But anyway, if I didn't have access to things like hardcopy braille, electronic Braille, I still would have at least one braille display that I would own personally, because it's just nice to be able to jot down a phone number or to be able to reference something. 33:06.000 --> 33:14.000 I may not have it with me all the time as I do when I travel, but I would definitely want to have one in my life, because I do think Braille is that important. 33:14.000 --> 33:18.000 That one should have access to it if you can. 33:18.000 --> 33:19.000 Yeah, my main thing, 33:19.000 --> 33:22.000 I would still have at least one brought us by around wherever. 33:22.000 --> 33:27.000 It's a, you know, a full blown notetaker or Braille display or whatever else for a couple of reasons. 33:27.000 --> 33:32.000 Number one, sometimes, and I found myself doing this at HumanWare. 33:32.000 --> 33:35.000 Sometimes you forget how product names are spelled. 33:35.000 --> 33:40.000 Now, I always make a mistake with the StellarTrek, I go, is it Stiller or is it Stellar? 33:41.000 --> 33:42.000 Is it two words? Is it one word? 33:42.000 --> 33:48.000 And when you're writing stuff to promote something, you really want to get your product name correct. 33:48.000 --> 33:49.000 So that's number one. 33:49.000 --> 33:54.000 Number two is sometimes I forget how to spell people's names. 33:54.000 --> 33:54.000 So for Mr. 33:54.000 --> 33:55.000 Peter, 33:55.000 --> 34:01.000 I can never remember how to spell your last name because somebody said to me, what's that 9-dot thing called on the Monarch? 34:01.000 --> 34:02.000 I said, well, it's called the Tucic square. 34:02.000 --> 34:05.000 Square. The two six square. Yes. 34:05.000 --> 34:05.000 And you said no. 34:05.000 --> 34:06.000 How do you spell it? 34:06.000 --> 34:09.000 I meant, well, square is S Q U A R E. 34:09.000 --> 34:10.000 Then ask me about the first bit. 34:10.000 --> 34:12.000 Now, if I had that in Braille, 34:12.000 --> 34:14.000 I could have just went, oh, yeah, blah blah blah, blah blah. 34:14.000 --> 34:20.000 So to me, it's very important to be able to like, you know, spell people's names properly. 34:20.000 --> 34:39.000 Product names, other things that you may not be sure of because I know one thing that I forgot, particularly when I was learning, and this is sort of a I guess I would have a counter argument for using Braille in some ways when I'm using contracted Braille and when I, when I first start learning that, 34:39.000 --> 34:43.000 I forgot how to spell "words", you know, quite normally 34:44.000 --> 34:47.000 ANCE, ENCE, kind of words, right? 34:47.000 --> 34:50.000 You know, k in knowledge and everything else. 34:50.000 --> 34:50.000 Yeah. 34:50.000 --> 34:53.000 So I can remember my teacher saying spell the word ONE. 34:53.000 --> 34:58.000 And I went, I know it's dot five in Braille. 34:58.000 --> 34:59.000 What is it in anyway? 34:59.000 --> 35:03.000 And what you can't even spell a three letter word is like, oh my dear. 35:03.000 --> 35:07.000 So yeah, I totally I do agree even sometimes. 35:07.000 --> 35:11.000 And that is, that is a perfect kind of counter argument, right. 35:11.000 --> 35:18.000 Contracted braille is beyond necessary to save space, but it oftentimes does lead to us not having the greatest command of spelling. 35:18.000 --> 35:21.000 And I talk about blind people being terrible spellers, and it is two fold. 35:21.000 --> 35:22.000 We are bad spellers. 35:22.000 --> 35:24.000 I am certainly an awful speller. 35:24.000 --> 35:33.000 As much written communication as I produce, I will double, triple, quadruple check what I'm doing because it it really can be bad. 35:34.000 --> 35:42.000 And that's, I mean, I, I'd like to think I'm a good verbal communicator or a good written communicator, but my, my writing skills I think proofreading as well. 35:42.000 --> 35:43.000 You brought it up. 35:43.000 --> 35:51.000 I, I have had and I thought about doing presentations and redacting, of course, all the names and lots of things of the feedback I receive. 35:52.000 --> 36:04.000 And there are some folks out there who make wonderful points, but they do it with such unbelievably bad spelling and grammar, like not even trying to check or have read back. 36:04.000 --> 36:07.000 Even if you're using dictation, at least read back what you've written. 36:08.000 --> 36:10.000 You talk about my last name. 36:10.000 --> 36:15.000 There is a public Facebook post out there where somebody calls me repeatedly, Peter toothache. 36:15.000 --> 36:19.000 And now I like that because I get it. 36:19.000 --> 36:23.000 And they were very upset and it was this long diatribe, but it kept talking about Peter toothache. 36:23.000 --> 36:25.000 And they were trying to say Peter Tucic. 36:25.000 --> 36:28.000 But what was happening was it was calling me Peter toothache. 36:28.000 --> 36:39.000 And again, if you're trying to send me sort of an email with, with whether it's criticism of a product or feedback or you're really upset, at least spell my name correctly. 36:39.000 --> 36:41.000 If you're going to do that. 36:41.000 --> 36:51.000 And I think a lot of times we- or email addresses, you know, names, phone numbers, email addresses, those quick things, having Braille changes the whole way. 36:51.000 --> 36:54.000 We are able to confidently read and write that information. 36:54.000 --> 36:57.000 So I, I think it's hugely important. 36:58.000 --> 37:15.000 And, you know, the fact now that we have services like, you know, we were talking with Scott, I mean, if we look here at the National Library Service, the Braille catalog has hundreds of thousands of titles where previously I would have those embossed for me, where now I can simply read them on a Braille display. 37:15.000 --> 37:18.000 You're having access to a Braille book in real time. 37:18.000 --> 37:20.000 That's incredible. That's incredible. 37:20.000 --> 37:24.000 Because even a couple of decades ago, that was seemingly impossible. 37:24.000 --> 37:27.000 I think that's huge and great for reading. 37:27.000 --> 37:37.000 As much as I love audiobooks and listen and as much of a power JAWS or iPhone user, I am, certainly Braille is still so important to me. 37:38.000 --> 37:40.000 Another thing that's come to my mind more and more now. 37:40.000 --> 37:43.000 Like I just because I've joined, you know, you guys at HumanWare 37:43.000 --> 37:47.000 Now for six months, I'm doing a lot more travel to the airport. 37:47.000 --> 37:50.000 And it's really fantastic these days because. 37:50.000 --> 37:53.000 Because I lug around like a 15, carry bag. 37:53.000 --> 37:56.000 I've got a 20 kilo case that I've got to lug around. 37:56.000 --> 38:02.000 But the nice thing about all the lifts I'm taking at the railway station, at the airport, they're all labeled in braille. 38:02.000 --> 38:04.000 Now for me, as a blind person, that's fantastic. 38:04.000 --> 38:09.000 But if I was a low vision person and I couldn't see the numbers, for example. 38:09.000 --> 38:12.000 But I knew how to read uncontracted Braille. 38:12.000 --> 38:19.000 I've just sold my information problem because we always go on about access to information, particularly in public infrastructure. 38:20.000 --> 38:27.000 If you can read, you know, braille signage or you can read, you know, the numbers on this this and this and stuff. 38:27.000 --> 38:30.000 You have just made the whole environment so accessible for yourself. 38:32.000 --> 38:33.000 Yeah, room numbers, all that stuff. 38:33.000 --> 38:35.000 It makes it tremendously easy. 38:35.000 --> 38:39.000 And there are times where you can't actually feel the embossed print on a Braille room. 38:39.000 --> 38:45.000 You know, when on a printed or engraved sign because it's flat or it's under a piece of plastic. 38:45.000 --> 38:49.000 Sometimes if you know your print letters or numbers, yes, you can certainly feel that. 38:49.000 --> 38:53.000 But the Braille is, you know, going to cue you into exactly where you need to be. 38:53.000 --> 38:53.000 If it's correct. 38:53.000 --> 38:59.000 We've all seen where it is woefully inaccurate, I'm sure, but it is. 38:59.000 --> 39:00.000 It is a good one. 39:00.000 --> 39:02.000 And I wonder if this topic will ever get put to rest. Right? 39:02.000 --> 39:07.000 Will we ever, you know, find or have folks who say, you know what 39:07.000 --> 39:23.000 Braille is entirely necessary and how it's become something that's somewhat of an argument is interesting over the last couple of really the last probably ten+ years that we've kind of seen even people questioning Braille or the use of Braille, the usefulness or functionality of braille. 39:24.000 --> 39:38.000 I wonder, I really wonder if people will continue to kind of bring that forward, especially now when you can just truly have more conversational types of auditory discussions with AI and everything in it's, you know, people say, well, look, no, I really don't need Braille or is it does it go the other way. 39:39.000 --> 39:49.000 The other thing, too, is not to actually when people talk about Braille, they dismiss the other part of the tactile system, which is, tactile maps, tactile graphics. 39:50.000 --> 39:54.000 And I think people tend to log in the tactile bit with Braille. 39:55.000 --> 40:02.000 And it's like, well, why going on about Braille and it being good or bad, which I think end of the day is just wasting time. 40:02.000 --> 40:05.000 Also consider like tactile information. 40:05.000 --> 40:12.000 So, you know, I've been enjoying the F1 season so far because I've got a tactile map of all the different circuits around the world. 40:12.000 --> 40:16.000 So I can draw when they talk about particular, turns on the circuit with the racing cars. 40:17.000 --> 40:20.000 I've got a map of Sydney Airport, so if I get slightly disorientated, 40:20.000 --> 40:23.000 I can just bring up my my map pad in my backpack and check it out. 40:23.000 --> 40:32.000 So I just think people have to be really careful when they try and sort of lump everything into this, quote Braille thing and say that nothing else is worthwhile. 40:32.000 --> 40:36.000 Like Rachel said, you know, you've got labeling, and you've got all different sorts of things. 40:36.000 --> 40:41.000 So yeah, I just think people, don't know, they just go to one stream or the another. 40:41.000 --> 40:46.000 And I just would like to say like a bit of a medium thoughtful, you know, thing going on a little bit more. 40:46.000 --> 40:50.000 It's simply a way for us to consume, and we use our hands to touch everything around us anyway. 40:50.000 --> 40:55.000 So we're going to be consuming information, whether that's tactile maps or Braille letters, I totally agree. 40:55.000 --> 40:57.000 Hopefully you have thoughts. 40:57.000 --> 41:03.000 Remember to email us podcast@humanware.com and we look forward to hearing from you on this. 41:03.000 --> 41:06.000 And certainly any other hot takes. 41:08.000 --> 41:11.000 Hey everybody and welcome to the Tips and Tricks segment. 41:11.000 --> 41:14.000 Today we're going to look at the Odyssey Desktop Reader. 41:15.000 --> 41:19.000 This is a standalone device that will scan printed documents. 41:19.000 --> 41:23.000 We affectionately refer to it as a coffee thermos. 41:23.000 --> 41:32.000 So it is a cylindrical device with buttons on the top and an extendable camera arm that comes out of the front. 41:33.000 --> 41:41.000 I have the arm extended right now and I have a document underneath, so there are several modes that you can use with this device. 41:41.000 --> 41:50.000 There is auto mode, which as soon as you place a printed piece of paper under the camera, the Odyssey will put it in focus and take a picture. 41:51.000 --> 41:58.000 There's manual mode, which allows you to place the document under the camera and then press the capture button to take a picture. 41:58.000 --> 42:05.000 There is finger pointing mode, which allows you to point your finger at a line of text, and the Odyssey will begin reading there. 42:06.000 --> 42:06.000 And then. 42:06.000 --> 42:14.000 There are some AI updates which include a bill manager, a reading assistant, and a translation mode. 42:15.000 --> 42:24.000 So the bill manager will take a picture of a bill and give you the relevant information like the company name, the amount due, and other associated information. 42:24.000 --> 42:31.000 The reading assistant will take a picture of any document, and then it will summarize it and give you the key points. 42:31.000 --> 42:37.000 If you want a detailed description, you can then activate that after the Odyssey finishes the summary. 42:37.000 --> 42:46.000 The translation mode allows you to take a picture of, let's say, a Spanish document and have the Odyssey translate it into English. 42:46.000 --> 42:51.000 The language that the Odyssey translates into is based on your system language. 42:51.000 --> 43:00.000 So because my Odyssey is set to English, if I take a picture of a Spanish or French document, the Odyssey will then translate it into English. 43:01.000 --> 43:03.000 And those are the supported languages so far. 43:03.000 --> 43:05.000 English, Spanish and French. 43:07.000 --> 43:10.000 So I'm going to start out by scanning a document in manual mode. 43:10.000 --> 43:15.000 When the Odyssey is powered on, it will take you to the list of modes. 43:16.000 --> 43:25.000 And I'm going to press the right arrow, which is on the top of the Odyssey, to get to the manual mode. Auto mode, Manual mode. 43:26.000 --> 43:31.000 Here's manual mode, and I'm going to press the capture button to take the picture. 43:44.000 --> 43:45.000 Spectrum Savings 43:45.000 --> 43:53.000 Bundle and Save $360 a year $70 mo savings based on current promotion versus 43:53.000 --> 43:56.000 Spectrum's regular pricing commitment that goes beyond savings. 43:56.000 --> 44:00.000 We're committed to keeping you connected 100% of the time. 44:00.000 --> 44:02.000 Transparency at every step. 44:02.000 --> 44:05.000 We're committed to clear and simple pricing with no contracts. 44:05.000 --> 44:08.000 I press the play pause button to stop the Odyssey from reading. 44:08.000 --> 44:17.000 So as we heard here, this is a document outlining promotional services for the Spectrum Internet service provider. 44:17.000 --> 44:26.000 Now, if I wanted more information, I'm going to turn to AI and see how the document is presented with the reader assistant mode. 44:26.000 --> 44:35.000 So I'm going to press the back button located on the bottom right of the Odyssey to get to the list of modes. Manual mode. 44:35.000 --> 44:41.000 It said manual mode as that is the mode I've just used, and I'm going to press the right arrow to go to the next mode. 44:42.000 --> 44:45.000 Finger pointing mode AI mode. 44:45.000 --> 44:46.000 Here is AI mode. 44:46.000 --> 44:51.000 I'm going to press the capture button to go into the submenu bill manager. 44:51.000 --> 44:52.000 This is bill manager. 44:52.000 --> 44:54.000 We're going to take a look at that in a little bit. 44:54.000 --> 44:56.000 But I want the reading assistant. 44:56.000 --> 44:59.000 So I'm going to press the right arrow. Reading assistant. 45:00.000 --> 45:06.000 This mode will take a picture of the document and then give you a detailed description if you'd like. 45:06.000 --> 45:08.000 So I'm going to press the capture button. Now. 45:24.000 --> 45:33.000 The text outlines a promotional offer from Spectrum for internet and TV services, highlighting significant savings of $360 per year. 45:34.000 --> 45:42.000 It emphasizes the commitment to reliable service, transparent pricing without contracts or hidden fees, and exceptional customer service. 45:43.000 --> 45:52.000 The offer is valid for new residential customers and includes details about the services provided, pricing for the first two years and a moneyback guarantee. 45:52.000 --> 45:55.000 Does it require a detailed description? 45:55.000 --> 45:58.000 Yes. Now the Odyssey has presented us with some options. 45:58.000 --> 46:00.000 What? I'd like a detailed description. 46:00.000 --> 46:04.000 The default is yes or I can press the right arrow to know. 46:04.000 --> 46:10.000 In this case, I'm going to press the capture button to get this detailed description of the document. 46:11.000 --> 46:15.000 The content begins with a promotional message about Spectrum 46:15.000 --> 46:21.000 Savings Plan, which allows customers to bundle services and save $360 annually. 46:21.000 --> 46:32.000 It lists the services included in the offer Internet Premier at $30 per month, advanced Wi-Fi at $50 per month, and TV stream at $40 per month. 46:32.000 --> 46:37.000 The total monthly cost is stated as $70 for both years one and two. 46:37.000 --> 46:48.000 I press the play Pause button to stop the detailed description, but as you can hear, that is a very comprehensive review of the document that I took a picture of. 46:50.000 --> 46:53.000 Now I'd like to show you translation mode. 46:53.000 --> 47:01.000 Translation mode, as mentioned, allows you to take a picture of a document in another language and have the Odyssey translate it. 47:01.000 --> 47:08.000 So I have a Spanish document here with some animal facts, and I'm going to have the Odyssey translate those facts into English. 47:08.000 --> 47:12.000 I'm going to press the back button to get to the list of modes. 47:12.000 --> 47:15.000 Reading assistant AI mode. 47:16.000 --> 47:17.000 We're in AI mode. 47:17.000 --> 47:20.000 I'm going to press the right arrow to go to the next mode. 47:20.000 --> 47:22.000 Translation mode. Here's translation mode. 47:22.000 --> 47:25.000 I'm going to press the capture button to take a picture of a document. 47:41.000 --> 47:43.000 The Spanish language is recognized. 47:43.000 --> 47:46.000 Translated into English language. 47:46.000 --> 47:57.000 The octopuses have three hearts, two of them pump blood to the gills, while the third is responsible for distributing it throughout the rest of the body. 2: giraffes have a blue tongue. 47:57.000 --> 48:05.000 Their tongue can measure up to 50cm long and is dark blue to protect themselves from the sun, 3: dolphins sleep with one eye open. 48:06.000 --> 48:09.000 This allows them to stay alert to potential dangers. 48:09.000 --> 48:17.000 While resting, I press the play pause button, but those are some facts that were easily translated from Spanish to English. 48:19.000 --> 48:25.000 Now, you have heard that when the Odyssey is recognizing text, there is some nice music that plays. 48:25.000 --> 48:39.000 But if you want to change that to a less obtrusive clicking sound, or you can have the Odyssey tell you the progress by voice or as is some options offered by companies when on hold, you can wait in silence. 48:39.000 --> 48:42.000 The Odyssey has an offer of that as well. 48:42.000 --> 48:45.000 So I'm going to show you how to change the recognition sound. 48:45.000 --> 48:49.000 And then we're going to look at a fictional bill in the Odyssey's 48:49.000 --> 48:54.000 Bill manager I'm going to press the menu button to go to the main screen. 48:55.000 --> 48:59.000 Main menu 99% power remaining. File management. 49:00.000 --> 49:03.000 The menu button is located on the bottom left of the Odyssey. 49:03.000 --> 49:15.000 The first option here is file management because you can saved scanned documents, but I'm going to press the right arrow until I get to settings. reading speed, voice, 49:15.000 --> 49:19.000 Wi-Fi settings, Bluetooth Settings Settings. 49:19.000 --> 49:22.000 And I'm going to press the capture button to go into this menu. 49:22.000 --> 49:29.000 LED settings, camera arm settings, and I'm pressing the right arrow to go through these settings options. 49:29.000 --> 49:31.000 Recognition Sound. 49:31.000 --> 49:33.000 Here is recognition sound. 49:33.000 --> 49:36.000 I'm going to press the capture button to go into this menu. 49:36.000 --> 49:38.000 Music. It's set to music. 49:38.000 --> 49:41.000 I'm going to press the right arrow to go to the other choices. 49:41.000 --> 49:47.000 Click here is click voice voice blank and blank which is silence. 49:47.000 --> 49:57.000 I'm going to choose Click Music click, and I'm going to press the capture button to access this choice set to click Recognition Sound. 49:58.000 --> 50:00.000 Now we've set that to the click. 50:00.000 --> 50:11.000 So I'm going to press the back button which is located on the bottom right of the unit, to go back to the screen of modes main menu settings translation mode. 50:12.000 --> 50:13.000 It's set to translation mode is. 50:13.000 --> 50:15.000 That was the mode that we last used 50:15.000 --> 50:25.000 But we're going to go back to the AI mode and to the bill manager, auto mode, manual mode, finger pointing mode, AI mode. 50:25.000 --> 50:28.000 I'm going to press the capture button to choose this bill manager. 50:29.000 --> 50:30.000 Here is Bill manager. 50:30.000 --> 50:33.000 So I have a fictional bill placed under the Odyssey. 50:33.000 --> 50:39.000 And I'm going to press the capture button to have the Odyssey take a picture. 50:47.000 --> 50:50.000 This is a bill of type utility bill. 50:50.000 --> 50:53.000 Bill date March 27th, 2025. 50:53.000 --> 50:55.000 Total cost $35. 50:55.000 --> 50:59.000 Company name National Energy and Water Services. 51:02.000 --> 51:10.000 So that sound means that the Odyssey has reached the end of text on the page, and it has given us the relevant information from the bill. 51:11.000 --> 51:21.000 If we wanted more information, we could switch to the Reading Assistant mode and take another picture and have the Odyssey get more information using AI. 51:21.000 --> 51:38.000 So this is the Odyssey and some of the updates that we have just recently added, along with being able to scan and save documents, you now have the ability to translate documents, get information about bills, get summaries of documents, and more. 51:38.000 --> 51:40.000 So please stay tuned for further updates. 51:40.000 --> 51:46.000 And as always, if you have questions or comments, please send us a note to podcast@humanware.com . 51:48.000 --> 51:53.000 All right everybody, welcome back to another segment of The Partners Corner. 51:53.000 --> 51:54.000 And for this one. 51:54.000 --> 51:57.000 So we tend to talk to people. 51:57.000 --> 52:00.000 Well we've been very North America centric the first couple of episodes. 52:00.000 --> 52:03.000 And forget that nobody needs to just be North American centric. 52:03.000 --> 52:11.000 We are going to go across the pond to my right, which as I sit in Chicago, would be across the Atlantic Ocean. 52:11.000 --> 52:14.000 We're going to head over toward Europe. 52:14.000 --> 52:15.000 We're going to take a left. 52:15.000 --> 52:23.000 We're going to go a bit north, and we're going to stop in Denmark, where we are going to talk with Michael Nilsson from Instrulog. 52:23.000 --> 52:24.000 How are you, Michael? 52:24.000 --> 52:27.000 Hello and thank you very much. I'm good. 52:27.000 --> 52:28.000 Thank you. That's awesome. 52:28.000 --> 52:34.000 I know you're you were you were highly concerned about, doing an interview in English, but I'm telling you, we're going to make you a star. 52:34.000 --> 52:36.000 People are going to be wondering where you are all over the world. 52:36.000 --> 52:39.000 They're going to come find you for your English prowess. 52:39.000 --> 52:43.000 Wow. I hope you're right about that, because it's, it's true. 52:43.000 --> 52:48.000 I'm, I was a bit nervous, doing this interview, based on the fact that I'm, 52:48.000 --> 52:53.000 I'm not sure that my vocabulary would, would fit in the podcast, but I'm, 52:53.000 --> 52:58.000 I'm glad that you mention it that your vocabulary is phenomenal. 52:58.000 --> 53:08.000 I think, what you should really do is have me on a Danish podcast and we'll see who has, you know, who has something to really, really pick apart. 53:08.000 --> 53:10.000 Because I don't even know if I can say hello. 53:10.000 --> 53:12.000 I could just say hello or something. 53:12.000 --> 53:14.000 I'm sure that's close. 53:14.000 --> 53:16.000 It would work. Indeed it would work. 53:16.000 --> 53:19.000 So, so you're already, one level up. 53:19.000 --> 53:21.000 Well, thank you so much for joining us. 53:21.000 --> 53:24.000 And can you can you tell us a little bit about Instrulog? 53:24.000 --> 53:33.000 So I know you're you're a technology consultant for Instrulog and, you know, can you give us a quick sense of what Instrulog all that Instrulog is? 53:33.000 --> 53:35.000 Yeah, indeed. I can try at least. 53:35.000 --> 53:42.000 So we are a small company based, just outside of Copenhagen. 53:42.000 --> 53:54.000 We are, as you mentioned, a technology company, and we are mainly a, distributor of products for the blind and visually impaired. 53:54.000 --> 54:06.000 We have a lot of technical equipment, and, all most half of the HumanWare product range is, here at, at my office. 54:06.000 --> 54:22.000 I'm looking at it right now because it's, it's one of, of the best, like, manufacturers that we, we support, and we are three employees in total. 54:22.000 --> 54:29.000 Here in Denmark, our main customer would be the the public system here in Denmark. 54:29.000 --> 54:42.000 And it's mainly because if you are a blind or visually impaired, you are obligated to get products that help in some way or another reimbursed. 54:43.000 --> 54:50.000 So the system here in Denmark is that you- if you're blind, you, you go to a communication center. 54:50.000 --> 55:11.000 We have around 22 different communication centers here in Denmark who are here to help with communication and communication is a wide thing, but, but in, in, in our range or in our like segment, it's, it's product for the, for the blind and visually impaired. 55:11.000 --> 55:21.000 So that's, it's interesting in that and I think a lot of people are, you know, curious about how equipment is obtained in different parts of the world. 55:21.000 --> 55:30.000 And so here, you know, in the United States where I am, we have we have various ways that a blind or visually impaired person receives equipment. 55:30.000 --> 55:33.000 And, you know, think of HumanWare equipment for sure. 55:33.000 --> 55:49.000 For this the sense of this podcast when I'm in school, a lot of that is provided through, you know, my, my local school district, could be provided through there are federal funding options once I get out of school though, the landscape changes here. 55:49.000 --> 56:09.000 I will have to go and, you know, whether that's through a vocational rehabilitation setting, where I can get equipment provided or, or a lot of times, especially for somebody who is newer to blindness, who is older, they're needing to purchase those products out of pocket. 56:09.000 --> 56:11.000 And as you know, that can be very expensive. 56:11.000 --> 56:18.000 Can you talk a tiny bit about so if somebody goes to a communication center, I'm assuming that's primarily an adult. 56:19.000 --> 56:20.000 Is it- 56:20.000 --> 56:26.000 If they do, let's say a HumanWare product is recommended, how is that product funded? 56:26.000 --> 56:29.000 How is that product paid for by the users? 56:29.000 --> 56:31.000 The user responsible for paying for any of that? 56:31.000 --> 56:33.000 Or is it something that's provided through the government? 56:33.000 --> 56:34.000 It's insured. 56:34.000 --> 56:36.000 It's provided through the government. 56:36.000 --> 56:49.000 So if you're obligated, we have a we have a few laws and a few restrictions that tell us whenever a blind person is, do have the legal right to get a product to be reimbursed 56:49.000 --> 56:57.000 But if all that is clear, you get, you get a product reimbursed 100%. 56:57.000 --> 57:11.000 So if an adult goes to a municipality or a communication center, they will start a process of working out what would be the best solution for this specific case. 57:12.000 --> 57:28.000 So every single time it's individual, on an individual level, they always look at the, at the person in front of them, and take action in, in relation to the person in front of them. 57:28.000 --> 57:30.000 Does it matter if they're working? 57:30.000 --> 57:39.000 So if they're in, let's say I'm an older adult, I'm 78 years old, a retiree, a pensioner, and I'm losing my vision. 57:39.000 --> 57:41.000 Can they still get a product? 57:41.000 --> 57:43.000 They can still get a product. Yeah. 57:43.000 --> 57:53.000 So it's not it's not- it's still relevant to, to to know whether or not the person in charge is working or not. 57:53.000 --> 57:55.000 If the person is working. 57:55.000 --> 58:05.000 It's another process, if the person is working and we can use whatever product we are talking about at home as well. 58:06.000 --> 58:08.000 It's a third system. 58:08.000 --> 58:11.000 It's a third, got to go to, to get it reimbursed. 58:12.000 --> 58:18.000 But in the end, it's always 100% reimbursed and paid for by the government. 58:19.000 --> 58:20.000 That's excellent. 58:20.000 --> 58:47.000 And I think, you know, we've certainly had various bills introduced here in the United States and the National Federation of the blind and the American Council of the blind have been very active in trying to push forward, you know, ways for technology to be funded, regardless of whether you are working, seeking work or not working, because a lot of times here, it's tied to your kind of employment or looking for employment. 58:47.000 --> 58:49.000 One question I have, though, is about training. 58:49.000 --> 59:00.000 When a product is given to or funded, you're not given, but provided to somebody who let's say I you know, I qualify for a Braille display. 59:00.000 --> 59:03.000 I get a braille display or a magnifier. 59:03.000 --> 59:11.000 What happens from a training perspective is that provided by Instrulog or is there is there another channel, of where that training comes from? 59:12.000 --> 59:13.000 We can do it for sure. 59:13.000 --> 59:18.000 We do offer training and we just call it an introduction. 59:18.000 --> 59:28.000 And that's mainly because the communication center spread around here in Denmark do offer the same kind of training. 59:28.000 --> 59:30.000 And they are the experts. 59:30.000 --> 59:47.000 So we would always recommend and end users to, to contact the communication center and ask for some kind of training for a product that is either reimbursed or they are able to, to purchase products themself of course. 59:47.000 --> 59:51.000 And they can still get the training if they need. 59:51.000 --> 59:53.000 So and yeah. 59:53.000 --> 01:00:02.000 So normally we would recommend the, the communication center due to their expertise. 01:00:02.000 --> 01:00:02.000 That is awesome. 01:00:02.000 --> 01:00:07.000 Well, one last question that has absolutely nothing to do with technology, but I want your opinion on this. 01:00:07.000 --> 01:00:12.000 Who is the most famous living person from Denmark that we would know around the world? 01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:15.000 Do you know the answer to that? 01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:18.000 Well, I have my I have my opinion, but I want yours. 01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:19.000 You live there. 01:00:19.000 --> 01:00:23.000 Don't ask me who's the most famous current living person from Denmark? 01:00:23.000 --> 01:00:24.000 I'm- 01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:30.000 I'm guessing that you're supposed to say me because I'm now a part of your podcast, so. 01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:33.000 No, but I like that answer. 01:00:33.000 --> 01:00:34.000 You. Okay? 01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:39.000 You are the most famous, probably right now, living person in the AT world. 01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:41.000 On the podcast, although I. 01:00:41.000 --> 01:00:45.000 I might have to check with Jesper Holten to see, what Jesper thinks. 01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:50.000 Yes, but I, I would say so if I were at it now. 01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:55.000 And I'll ask you this if I don't know if you would agree, but I think Lars Ulrich would be the most famous. 01:00:57.000 --> 01:01:01.000 The drummer from Metallica, whose father was a very famous tennis player, 01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:04.000 I believe would be the most famous Dane that's living. 01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:07.000 Would you would you agree with that? 01:01:07.000 --> 01:01:10.000 It's hard not to agree with you right now. 01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:13.000 I think I think we should stick with me. 01:01:13.000 --> 01:01:15.000 Yeah, I think we will. We'll just. 01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:16.000 Okay. 01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:19.000 Michael Nilsson, technology consultant, Instrulog. 01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:22.000 Yes. Featuring your podcast. 01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:30.000 And now one of the famous living people from Denmark with a perfect command of the English language. 01:01:31.000 --> 01:01:32.000 You're so kind. 01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:33.000 Thank you so much for joining, Michael. 01:01:33.000 --> 01:01:35.000 It's been fantastic. 01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:37.000 And really, we appreciate your time. 01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:40.000 And just being able to highlight a little bit of what Instrulog does. 01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:41.000 Thank you very much. 01:01:41.000 --> 01:01:47.000 And I appreciate have been a part of the podcast and thank you for having me. 01:01:47.000 --> 01:01:52.000 It's, it was really a interesting email to receive. 01:01:52.000 --> 01:01:57.000 And, and now it did happen, and, and I hope that it'll be successful. 01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:06.000 All right, everybody, welcome back to our upcoming shows portion, where we'll talk about where you could meet us. 01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:07.000 If you happen to be in the area. 01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:13.000 We always encourage you to stop by a booth or a table near you to ask questions to get your hands on the products. 01:02:13.000 --> 01:02:15.000 April 25th. This one. 01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:20.000 You will not be able to come to a booth near here because I will be presenting virtually to the Illinois 01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:27.000 American Council of the blind, state chapter conference that will be on April 25th, I believe my presentation, actually, 01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:31.000 I know my presentation is at 1:30 Central time. 01:02:31.000 --> 01:02:38.000 We will be attending the Vision Serve Alliance Leadership Conference that will be at the DoubleTree Resort in Scottsdale, 01:02:38.000 --> 01:02:41.000 Arizona, April 28th to May 1st. 01:02:41.000 --> 01:02:52.000 And you can catch us at the Utah National Federation of the Blind State Convention that will be taking place in Provo, Utah at the Provo Marriott and Conference Center. 01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:55.000 That will be from May 1st to May 3rd. 01:02:55.000 --> 01:02:57.000 So please come see us. 01:02:57.000 --> 01:02:59.000 We certainly do attend other events as well. 01:02:59.000 --> 01:03:00.000 If you hear, we may be in the area. 01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:04.000 We have a large and fantastic distribution network as we tend to cover on the podcast. 01:03:04.000 --> 01:03:11.000 So please come see us or our representatives, our distributors, wherever they may be. Ask questions. 01:03:11.000 --> 01:03:17.000 Don't forget to send your emails or thoughts to podcast@humanware.com 01:03:17.000 --> 01:03:22.000 Thank you so much everybody and we will see you the third Thursday in May. 01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:28.000 If you have comments or suggestions, we'd love to hear from you. 01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:31.000 Please send them to podcast@humanware.com 01:03:31.000 --> 01:03:34.000 That's podcast@humanware.com 01:03:34.000 --> 01:03:35.000 We'll see you next month.